Jesus is looking friendly, but also like he could totally go crazy and flip a money lenders table. It’s hard to tell if he is dafriend or dafoe.
There are no moral billionaires. Rich men do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There are no billionaires in Paradise. In the end, every last one of them burns.
Truth.
Also, the predominant image of fire in the Bible is that of purification (not punishment). So the idea is that billionaires (or other such sinners) will not be simply burned away, but will be confronted with what their wealth hoarding has caused. They will have to endure the pain of being rid of their sinfulness in order come out on the other side. So there are no billionaires in Paradise in the sense that every person who is a billionaire in this life will one day be ridden of their wealth in order to enter said Paradise.
This is precisely the image Jesus uses when He speaks of the “eye of the needle.” Tradition holds that this phrase is in reference to a small gate that required a camel (or other pack animal) laden with goods to be unencumbered in order to pass through. The rich must let go of their wealth in order to enter God’s kingdom in the same way because that wealth is like dross to them.
We were taught no one ever escapes hell. It’s eternal. No one is purified and comes out the other side ready for heaven.
Good way to keep the ignorant peasants quiet, calm, and obedient.
Exactly, the Bible had reincarnation in it before churches and priests got involved. You can still find a few snippets, like some people asking if Jesus was the reincarnation of Elijah.
Telling people that all is forgiven on death and the point is to just do your best doesn’t collect tithes.
This is precisely the image Jesus uses when He speaks of the “eye of the needle.” Tradition holds that this phrase is in reference to a small gate that required a camel (or other pack animal) laden with goods to be unencumbered in order to pass through.
There has never existed in all of history a gate in Jerusalem called the “eye of the needle.” This interpretation was made up by some rich prick in the 11th century and repeated by other rich pricks through to the modern day in order to avoid the uncomfortable truth that Jesus said in no uncertain terms that they weren’t getting into heaven.
Tradition holds that this phrase is in reference to a small gate
It’s a fake tradition.
Not only a fake tradition, but one started by the wealthy to muddle what was a quite literal saying.
Jesus straight up said that it’s impossible for the wealthy to enter heaven.
Who says that the bible is morally right?
Unfortunately they’re doing their best to burn the rest of us in this life.
They instinctively know where they belong, so they spend their entire lives trying to bring Hell to Earth.
“It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than it is to pass a camel through the eye of a needle.”
It’s amazing to me what logical acrobatics people will go to in order to avoid the simple plain meaning of this passage. The truth is Jesus was a poor person who hung out with other poor people and social rejects of all kinds. He was canonically born in a barn…for Christ’s sake! To me, the message of Christ is quite unambiguous. Rich people go to Hell, same as murderers, rapists, etc. Being rich is a mortal sin. If you hoard enough wealth for a thousand lifetimes, sorry, you’re going to the Pit. There’s no way you can obtain that wealth except through the mass exploitation of the work of others. If you’re a billionaire, and if there is a Hell, you’re going there.
In the end, every last one of them burns.
If there was a just god, they would all burn. But if there was a just god, they wouldn’t get to be billionaires in the first place. Billionaires aren’t worried about hell or the afterlife because most of them know deep down that there will be no repercussions for their unethical behavior.
This line of logic never made sense to me. You could just as easily argue that, as god, the only way to prevent billionaires or people hoarding wealth/resources would be to get rid of free will, and that in a way is also immoral.
He has ended folks free will several times, because folks be sinnin’. The bible contends that was just, so there’s plenty of options to stop people from hording wealth.
But my contention is that he doesn’t exist, and if he does, he is the most immoral being.
And this line of logic never made sense to me. If God can’t prevent billionaires from hoarding wealth without getting rid of free will, then that means that God is not all powerful. Furthermore, if God can’t prevent billionaires from hoarding wealth, then that insinuates that there will be billionaires hoarding wealth in heaven, or there will be no free will in heaven.
don’t care. destroy all religion for the future of humanity.
Will never happen, there’s a sucker born every day.
that’s why we have to be proactive and regulate our society.
why is jesus white in this pic. are we whitewashing ancient history? pick a struggle my dude.
Because Willem Dafoe is white.
Check out “Little Buddha” sometime. Keanu Reeves in blackface staring as Siddhartha Gautama " Buddha "
“Watch me backflip onto this this market table to make space for the MAGA hats” - Jesus ‘The Donald’ Christ.
deleted by creator
Yes, in the same way that Marx’s teachings were an inspiration to Hitler — as a convenient source for plagiarism and fertile grounds for the delusion that each of them had found the one piece of the puzzle that everyone before them missed: that if only you went and killed all the Pharisees, the Kingdom of God would materialize on earth without all that annoying and painful self-sacrifice.
deleted by creator
But Jesus already showed the path and there were many saints who came after him who can attest to its efficacy.
Meanwhile, everyone who attempted to put Marx’s ideas into action has ended up killing millions of people and driving their entire country into misery and poverty.
Have you ever read Tolstoy?
His The Kingdom of God is Within You discusses how communism without religion is doomed to fail due to the lack of a moral compass beyond instituting communism. I thought it was very moving and persuasive.
I have not. But that’s an interesting thesis, because it contradicts Marx’s central belief that “religion is the opium of the people”, and that it would become unnecessary once communism was fully established.
I think Marx’s stance on religion is the greatest factor that has prevented communism from widespread acceptance. Religious communes have been operating for centuries, and (as shown by the OP), their morals align very well. Christians should have been Marx’s greatest allies, but instead he chose hard-line atheism.
That, and his stance that the use of violence is not only permissible, but necessary in order for the revolution to succeed.
Christian ethics are essentially voluntarist in nature; Jesus spent a lot of time trying to convince people to set aside their differences and work together, but ultimately he leaves it up to everyone’s free will.
Marx thought that he could shortcut this whole process by simply forcing everyone to participate, and that’s where he departed from Christianity. “All who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Matt. 26:52) was not part of his philosophy.
of course not. god goes with red wine. money goes with white wine.
White “whine”
I don’t know who Colin Bodayle is, but from the responses he got from his students I think he is located in the US. There is rot in the US culture that’s too deep, Trump is just it surfacing. Greed, individualism and selfishness are considered virtues, I noticed it when talking to coworkers there through the years. If Jesus ever went to the US he’d be crucified that is if he wasn’t arrested at the border by ICE for being a Palestinian. The US claims to be a Christian nation, yet it is the furthest from it. What good is your religion if it doesn’t make you do good? What good is your religion if it doesn’t make you overcome your selfishness and greed?
Yeah, it’s the fruit of almost a century of anti-communist propaganda.
To be fair over many many centuries, Christians aren’t exactly very following of the ways of Christ.
Yeah, it’s what led me to leave the faith. What I read in the NT wasn’t what was practiced in the church.
If Jesus came to the US he would smack the shit out of all of us
Was Jesus a political man?
According to the internets, “Liberation Theology” is a Christian movement that started in Latin America in the 1960s, that preaches against oppression. They sound like the opposite of right-wing “Christians”.
As far as I’ve understood, that is precisely one of the reasons the current pope has such a strong base in Latin America and so many in that part of the world wanted to see him as pope.
The Jesuit University System (SUJ) actively promotes liberation theology through curriculum in Mexico, and I would expect the Jesuits have similar structures and programs in other countries and parts of the world.
Interesting, I never knew that, even though my parents sent me to a Jesuit high school in Portland OR. All boys sadly, but academically fantastic.
Yeah the right wing Christians were training death squads to murder Liberation theology priests in Latin America.
Also worth noting that the US is not and never has been a “Christian nation.” Not only did the Founding Fathers specifically separate church and state for that reason, but they also didn’t declare a national religion and enshrined religious freedom as well for that same reason. Plus, half of them were agnostic or atheists. Anybody who says we’re a “Christian nation” is just using religion as an excuse for bigotry.
If God truly exists, he more so loves the atheist who questions the world around him than the Christian who blindly follows.
-Thomas Jefferson
I mean, the US has obviously become a “Christian” nation, it matters not if it was founded as one or not. Simply, like, look around.
Does anyone have that slide deck? Asking for a friend
Remember that the louder the Christian the less Christian they actually are.
Broken clock moment.
Leviticus 24:16
Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him.Plenty of other nice punishments for whatever. burning at the stake, hanging, and crucifixion.
Or maybe some non-lethal whipping or wife beating.
No thanksDo you imagine that the same people wrote the stuff in Leviticus and Matthew? They were composed like 400-600 years apart
Why would I care about that?
Not a fan of the fantasy genreOooo so edgy lmao, maybe because you’re pretending to care about facts
yawn.
Stopped discussing bible thumpers and flat earthers when I was 12. So bye
Yet here you are
You assume I’m extolling the virtues of Christianity when I’m just pointing out that their own religious text agrees with the comment I’m replying to.
I get the feeling you’re beating a dead horse.
Your reply might very well be that, since there is nothing in your verse contradicting his faulty statement that there are good ‘true’ christians.
Jesus Christ, there’s nothing stating there are good true Christians either. Are you this combative with everyone, or is religion just a tender spot for you?
Projection much?
I simply made a statement.
No noeed to jebus me or give me your amateur psycho-analysis.
Why do you get so triggered by it?
Religion is nothing to me, hapily atheist youth in western Europe without annoying bible thumpers.
It’s nothing more to me than a subject of ridicule.
But I’ll leave it at that since it clearly hits a nerve. Bye nowI simply made a statement.
…yeah, and I just provided a quote. Didn’t stop you from projecting your assumptions onto me below.
Your reply might very well be that, since there is nothing in your verse contradicting his faulty statement that there are good ‘true’ christians.
What is this “YOU DIDN’T DISAVOW, YOU MIGHT AS WELL SUPPORT IT” juvenile reasoning.
you can just say “my bad, I didn’t know where you were coming from and thought you were a bible thumper”
But I’ll leave it at that since it clearly hits a nerve.
Ah, the classic “I’m rubber, you’re glue” line.
Well, have a good day as well.
used to believe that. and that there was an elusive demographic of “Schroedenger’s Christians” who were true believers and didn’t want to hurt anyone. but at its core, that’s just not the point. the tolerant christians are the outliers and as of ten years ago they may as well not exist
Can’t be a true believer in eternal damnation and suffering and “not want to hurt anyone”
Our flawed brains simply can’t truly comprehend eternity and the creator of said brains also wants to use eternity as punishment. Supporting a system that is so cruel and final is in itself an act of cruelty.
“Eternal damnation and suffering” is fan fiction (Dante’s inferno) that somehow caught on. (The “somehow” being part and parcel with the other very good criticisms of the Church.)
There is no concept of eternal damnation in the bible.
There’s a lot of things in and not in the bible, all that matters is what Christians widely believe. For a long time Christians were opposed to using forks and finance but now I bet 99.9% are perfectly fine with it.
This is why belief is poison for rational thought. I can’t explain that damnation is not in the Bible but how to perform abortion is, for there to be Christian support for abortion. No points can be made against a faith specifically evolved to feed on the desire to be the misunderstood underdog with righteous purpose.
I’m not Christian but I doubt this, most people like to keep to themselves despite their religion.
I grew up deep in their community. No they dont. They hate everyone who isn’t them and are pretty stoked they don’t have to passively tell people “I’ll pray for you” anymore. Getting back to white hoods as fast as possible was always the goal.
ACAB
The first commandment being “I am thy God and though shalt have no other gods before me” (which implies the existence of other gods quite directly) before “thou shalt not kill” is pretty indicative or the actual attitude of the religion.
“The intolerance of narrow monotheism is written in letters of blood across the history of man from the time when first the tribes of Israel burst into the land of Canaan. The worshippers of the one jealous God are egged on to aggressive wars against people of alien [beliefs and cultures]. They invoke divine sanction for the cruelties inflicted on the conquered. The spirit of old Israel is inherited by Christianity and Islam, and it might not be unreasonable to suggest that it would have been better for Western civilization if Greece had moulded it on this question rather than Palestine.”
— Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan
10 years is super generous.
Any Christian now who remains silent in the face of their peers white nationalist hatred partakes in that hatred.
exactly. it’s a “if there are good cops then where the fuck are they when the bad ones kill somebody” situation.
Agreed, but I do feel like some sort of radical when I say to just read and follow Jesus’s teachings.
Well you’d be against any human ideology if you follow his teachings, so yeah. That’s pretty radical
Capitalism makes us worship capital so we cannot worship God and then blames it on LGBT.
You forgot the Orange Cult, but yeah. They blame it on DEI now though. Which means “anyone not a straight, white, male American who lives Trump.” It’s a very specific demographic that includes almost everyone on Earth.
I’m going to say this as a priest ordained in Christ’s One, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church (Episcopal branch): that choice of Jesus image is chef’s kiss
You got me in the first half, but you forgot "evangelical” 😇.
One of my professor, Gérard Siegwalt, a liberal Lutheran, wrote a “Dogmatics for the evangelical catholicity” and I always loved the title.
Signed: an ordained pastor of the Lutheran-Reformed branch.
Jesus literally REFUSED to be dragged into ideological politics of his time (John 6:10-15)
He even defied those who tried to put him to test and force a political statement come from him against the current political leader, the Caesar, by trying to have him a forced position on taxes (Mark 12:13-17)
All this makes sense, as he himself said about himself and his followers that they are not part of this world (John 15:19)
He LITERALLY made his teaching revolve around god’s kingdom, not any human ideology (Matthew 6:9, 10)
I mean FUCK, even Satan himself offered him to be the ruler of the whole FUCKING world and he rejected it flat out (John 14:30)
He did care about people, and alleviated the physical suffering of many, but he made clear his and his followers priority should be preaching and teaching God’s word (Mark 1:32-38)
And why wouldn’t he, after all, part of his teachings are that all the world governments and ideologies are to be destroyed. (Revelation 16:14) Every. Single. one.
So anyone using his teachings to attack whoever and linking him to your ideology, calling him a representative of brand of collectivism, should get down from any high horse they think they are, it’s not doing you or them any favor and they clearly don’t know what they are talking about.
Case in point, people talking about a hell existing in the bible when there is none. That’s basically all it takes
This has got to be one of the most disturbing posts I’ve seen in a while. You’re actively warping the Bible and trying to bend it to fit your narrative. You constantly leap to conclusions that are at best farfetched, or downright blasphemous…
John 6:15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.
This comes in the followup of the feeding of the 5000. The crowd, amazed at his power, looks to Jesus as a national savior - someone who will overthrow the Romans and restore Israel’s power. Jesus shows very clearly that he does NOT want to seize worldly power - his mission is to change people’s minds and hearts. Literally, his is an ideological mission, the opposite of what you wrote.
Mark 12:17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him.
Jesus doesn’t say politics don’t matter. He masterfully draws a line between what are worldly concerns, and divine allegiance. Paying taxes doesn’t threaten your relationship with God, but confusing political loyalty with spiritual devotion can.
It pains me how the core of Jesus’ message here is being missed: in Genesis, we are told that humans bear the image of God. What Jesus is saying is that the coin has Caesar’s image - give it to him. But WE bear God’s image - so we should give ourselves to God. The Pharisees and the Herodians understood this, and were amazed, and yet somehow the best we can do nowadays is to completely miss the beauty and the meaning in his message, and instead mistake it for “Jesus doesn’t do politics”.
John 15:19 “If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.”
Again, you disregard the context and you’re try to make it sound like Jesus is arguing that him and his followers are not involved in the affairs of this world, when the very opposite is true. Jesus is speaking to his followers just before his arrest, so he is preparing them to face the persecution and hardships that are to come. They are very much a part of this world, and they want to change it - because of that, they will suffer greatly. What Jesus is telling them is to not compromise their values for the sake of fitting in; to be faithful even when they are criticized or mocked; that they are not without a tribe, but instead they are part of a very different one.
Matthew 6:9, 10 “This, then, is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.’”
Again you keep pushing your narrative that Jesus is talking about something other than human ideology, when your very quote says the opposite: “[Father’s] will be done, on earth as it is in heaven”. What this prayer says is we want Jesus’ teaching to shape the world, and our lives, right now. This isn’t some abstract wishful thinking, this is a pledge that we will work so that God’s will be done through us, now, everyday, in the real world.
Please, spend some time reflecting on the context of the words and why they were spoken. If you pull them out of context and mishmash them in the way you want, then sure, they may have come from the Bible, but they’re are no longer God’s word - they are your own, so don’t misattribute them to Jesus.
Don’t worry, blasphemy is just a way to control workers or peasants.
Fuck jesus! Jesus is an asshole! God is evil!
See, nothing happened…
Use of undeclared identifier 'jesus'. Unused variable 'Jesus'. Undefined type 'evil'.That didn’t compile.
Also, “Jesus” and “jesus” are different.
Fuck jesus! Jesus is an asshole! God is evil!
I have no issues with that, that’s a legit opinion. Also 100% agree on blasphemy being a tool of social control, there’s no shortage of historical examples to prove it.
My issue is with misrepresenting something to try to prove a point, like the guy I replied to was trying to do.
Fair enough!
Still, don’t forget it’s just an old book, interpreted by people over the ages too…
Indeed it is, but it’s a fascinating book regardless. Unfortunately it has been used to justify horrendous things almost from the moment it was written, and as shown above, continues to be used to try to just anything up to this day.
Man, I wish you’d offer bible courses
I suspect maybe you wouldn’t want that! I’ve spent some time learning about religion and the Bible, and yet I’m an atheist, I don’t believe God exists.
While I don’t see the Bible as the literal word of a god, I do see it as a remarkable book that contains many important teachings, and it has definitely shaped a big part of my morality. I just wish it didn’t focus so much on blind obedience and faith in some higher power, so that we could look more closely at the ways in which it shows us how treating each other with love and respect would create a wonderful place for all of us, without having to wait for some future heavenly reward. I can see how that would hurt its success as a religion though…
In any case, I’m sure there’s people out there that share the mindset, and that are much more eloquent than me. Personally, my red flags are preaching about obedience, trust and faith. For me these are NOT the core of the gospel, quite the contrary. Jesus constantly refers to the “kingdom of god”, but to me this isn’t some place where god is the ruler: it’s a new reality, here on earth, where the poor, the meek, the broken, the sinners, the “lepers”, the outsiders, are all worthy of love and respect. It’s about accepting suffering and sacrifice, not in the hopes of getting out of here and being rewarded elsewhere, but because we all need to be willing to share our part of the burden and the work of making the world a better place.
Urgh, that sounds a lot like preaching, so I’ll shut up. You do you. But if we’re kind to each other, we’ll all have a better day.
He was absolutely not adverse to fucking some shit up when he wasn’t happy either. Not big into Forex.
Why would jesus even be swayed by satan if he is fucking god?
Christians are so weird
I presume the question was mostly rhetorical, but since it was asked, allow me to indulge myself:
The point of the story was precisely that, to affirm Jesus identity as god. This story starts out when Jesus is baptized, and a voice from the heavens says “this is my son”, and Satan then challenges his identity: “If you are the Son of God…”.
There’s more nuance to how the Bible sets this up, for example there’s the throwback to Adam, who was also tempted (the whole apple thing), but failed. Here Jesus is under much more strenuous circumstances yet resists, implying that he is not just a common mortal. However, this isn’t asserted through magnificent displays of power, which would be the simplest way, but by being steadfast and humble. This aims to establish the kind of philosophy that Jesus will preach, which isn’t about magic or ego or political control - just by resisting Satan, he defeats him.
Arguably, this also aims to enshrine values like obedience, humility and trust in a higher power, and thereby establish the basis of the power that the Church wants to exert over humanity.
The Bible is a remarkable work. Granted, the writing and analogies are a bit dated so it doesn’t read as well as a modern book, but it’s fascinating nonetheless.
This is a lot of mental gymnastics going on here. Reading John 6:10 and Mark 12:13 as “Jesus wouldn’t agree with Marx because Marx is of this world and Jesus is only about heaven” is a hell of a leap.
Your analysis would come off slightly less disingenuous if not for the fact that you’re a very active poster in the conservative groups and not once have you raised any objection to the religious right being neck-deep in the running of the country. Seems like “don’t co-opt Jesus to push your politics” only applies to leftists in your world.
You make Jesus sound like a socialist
The Bible describes them as a good person. What you imagine as socialist is probably just bring a good person.
Well, socialism is pretty specific about helping the sick and the poor, so was Jesus. Jesus hated taxes, but if they actually went towards helping others, I’m sure he’d be all for that too.
How did he hate taxes? He hated corrupt taxes.
You cite Revelation, but I’m fairly sure Hell is described in Revelation. Otherwise decent addition
I disagree strongly with it being a decent addition, and in fact argue (in a post here) that it’s a horrible and very disingenuous misrepresentation of what the bible actually says.
WWJD?
Get apprehended and sent to a gulag in El Salvador.
It’s funny you mention that because as I was reading the story of Garcia yesterday I couldn’t help but see parallels to the whole back-and-forth that happens to Jesus after His arrest. An innocent man yanked around by an unjust system.
