As tensions escalate between California and the Trump administration over immigration, another potential battlefront is emerging over taxes.
The spat began with reports that the Trump administration is considering cutting funding for California’s university system, the largest higher education system in the nation with about 12% of all U.S. enrolled students.
In response, Gov. Gavin Newsom wrote Friday afternoon in a social media post that California provides about $80 billion more in taxes to the federal government than it receives in return.
“Maybe it’s time to cut that off, @realDonaldTrump,” Newsom said.
Not one more penny to these Nazis.
Ok, this is an idea I had after reading numerous comments on this post. You’re all asking how this would work … hear me out.
California declares its own currency, the “California dollar”. Wages earned in California dollars wouldn’t be taxed like US Dollars.
There are some issues to work out; I think the IRS does tax your foreign assets … some … but I think that this scheme could work.
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Soundish monetary policy. In the end it’s a fallacy that has never even been tried on a theoretical level. We just did it and people were like, ok. We’ve been kept afloat by monetary and military threats. The policy makes no sense on any level, that infinite debt is perfectly fine or normal.
What if they got into a monetary union with Canada and linked Calidollar with the Canadollar with the same value and entirely interchangeable the way the Belgian and Luxemburg franc used to work?
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Just join Canada. If you are willing to consider you aren’t the center of the world, you are welcome.
No they’re too big, instantly doubling the population wouldn’t go well. At most a Euro style partnership if a few more western states broke off.
West coast alliance :)
Oh sick can we get the yaogui on the flag too?
They will just flatten it with carpet bombs.
California is unlikely to give up their nukes.
Educate me for a moment, are Nukes on a seperate grid by state?
They can all work off the grid, in case we get hit first.
I do not mean power plants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Livermore_National_Laboratory?wprov=sfla1
I didn’t either. I meant are they seperate state by state like that where a state could threaten to use or withhold nukes as you were implying?
They are controlled normally by the Department of Energy.
But sesession would be a weird event, and many things would change. Physical location is not one of them. And the physical location of the place where the most advanced nuclear weapons are designed and built is in California.
Would the physicists and engineers at Lawrence Livermore just pack up and leave? Or would they continue rolling out B.83s or something in between.
Even more weird possibilities: would the DoE forcibly relocate the physicists and engineers who do this work? Or would California step in and protect them? In any case I think the number of weapons that wind up under the control of the State of California would not be zero. The same goes for bombers, and missile systems, of which California has the most flexible examples.
Sure, the production missile fleet is in Montana and N. Dakota, but those things are there to draw fire, not necessarily to be used. But Vandenberg and Edwards are in California. What happens to those?
Feel free to join Canada my friends.
I would really like to come visit if the road border near Detroit is still relatively safe. My passport and driver’s license have the same name and gender so I might have a chance.
They might still get you on skin colour, ethno-linguistic origin of name, left-wing political affiliations, religious affiliations (or lack thereof), type of employment or specific employer, perceived accent, or a boarder agent just having a very bad or a very good day.
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Breaks down when you start seeing all the blueberries in the ketchup and you realize that’s where huge portions of the population actually live.
So much of that red state territory is vacant real estate. A big chunk more is functionally disenfranchised (Indian reservations, migrant labor communities, large prison populations).
This illustrates regions of political control. But it is in no way reflective of homogeneous popular opinion.
Shit, even doing shades of purple without getting more granular than the state level would change the map drastically. This winner take all bullshit is the dumbest part of the electoral college.
America needs ranked choice voting. Unfortunately the GOP has been banning it in every state they can.
Been saying that we’re headed for balkanization since the clown won his first term. Not seeing any reason to change that prediction.
balkanization
For uninformed people like myself:
Balkanization is the process of a country or region fragmenting into smaller, often hostile units, typically driven by ethnic, cultural, religious, or geopolitical differences. The term originates from the Balkan Peninsula, a region that has experienced significant fragmentation throughout history, and the term is now used more broadly to describe similar processes elsewhere.
I’m not looking forward for the chaos preceding the emergence of the next superpower if US balkanization happens.
Isn’t it just China at this point?
US balkanization is exactly the chaos preceding the emergence of the next superpower.
California, without the constant drain on its resources.
I think that’s incredibly wishful thinking.
Why would you think that? It’s already the world’s 4th largest economy with the drain.
China
Maybe. They’re floundering since Xi put economics on a lower tier than his own power.
The EU could do it, but it will require sharp thinking and sharper action.
If the military was being deployed before for so little reason then hold on to your butts, the entire US military will be thrown in to the mix and California will be treated as an occupied state in no time if they touch the money.
Doubt they’ll be paying much taxes if everyone is a prisoner in their own homes
The federal government will just levy more taxes upon the remaining states. At least 10 thousand good dubloons and various gold statues and concubines per year
I’m not a fan of Newsom, but get it dude.
Join Canada.
Most Americans would be unhappy in Canada. You don’t have the right to own a gun in Canada. Employees have rights in Canada. We have actual religious freedom in Canada, not the right to discriminate based on “religion”. Women have the right to choose in Canada. Hate speech isn’t protected in Canada. We’re a VERY different country even compared to your most liberal states.
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Canada has more regulations, that’s for sure, but that’s why our banking industry survived the US banking meltdown. Our tax rates are comparable but very few Canadians go bankrupt because of medical debt. I was diagnosed with Hodgkins Lymphoma last year. I got an ultrasound, two chest x-rays, a CT scan, three PET scans, two pulmonary function studies, an echo cardiogram, a PICC line, 12 PICC care appointments, 20 bloodwork appointments, and six months of chemo and my out of pocket expenses were less than $4,000 which included parking, gas, and meals for my driver. We have school shootings but they are very rare and far less deadly than in the US because of strict gun regulations.
If you compare taxes paid to what you would spend on medicine and health care or other out of pocket, you would be further ahead in Canada. While not perfect, we have social systems to try to level the playing field for all. With deductions and tax credits my 22-24% tax bracket is actually only about 13% paid tax
Don’t threaten me with a good time lol
Sounds much like a blue state. You don’t have the right to own a gun in MA for example. You have a right to submit an application for your local police chief to deny or approve based on how much they like you.
You do have the right to own at gun in MA as guaranteed by the Second Amendment. No such right exists in Canada. In Canada gun ownership is a privilege which can be revoked and which has strict training, licensing, and handling requirements.
Strict is a loose term. A Canadian neighbour had more than 10 guns, overkill for city apartment living…but if you have a valid license its fair game
Realistically though, if you’re not a f***ing moron and don’t have a criminal record, it’s not hard to get your PAL and the ability to have long-guns. It’s a day-course.
The RPAL is a bit more work and more restrictions in terms of transport etc, but it’s not necessary for most people that would just want to go hunting or target shooting (except target shoots with handguns).
IMO - as somebody who has a PAL - the rules around responsible ownership in Canada are pretty reasonable. Some of the recent stuff over particular firearms is dumb especially with the lacklustre enforcement against trafficking etc, but stuff around safe storage and use 100% makes sense to me whereas the “public carry” stuff in the US is kinda horrifying to me.
Agreed. I’m not a gun owner but was around guns as a kid (dad was a hunter) and he was super into safety of the whole thing. Except my friends dad wasn’t so safe, he had us reloading shotgun shells via purpose built relaoding carousal as kids. My friend had no qualms about it, but I’m like dude make sure the primer isn’t skewed when the shell comes down, careful with that. I had visions of a crimped primer setting off the powder lol
Strict by American standards. My 16 year old son is on his way into the house to get my keys so that I can unlock the ammo box to give him .22 quiets so that he can try out his new Winchester rifle that arrived by mail today.
Canadian kids 12 through 17 can apply for their gun license. Or If you are with a licensed owner you can handle guns. I went hunting with my dad in the teen days. Canada is not as strict as the US folk believe, especially if you live rurally and are hunting, you can be under 12. We just don’t use it to attach our identity too like gun nuts in the USA
Used to be that way here as well. Gun nuts existed but even most of the right thought they were crazy and pathetic.
Grew up in the deep south. Guns were a tool, back then. Most people didn’t own a handgun, those that did tended to have one or two. .38 special and a .22 pistol for plinking. Like other tools they are toys as well so people like guns and have a lot of fun with them. Seeing them as weapons to kill people was a distant afterthought other than safety considerations.
Most gun owners had only long guns. .22 for small game and plinking, scoped bolt or lever 30-06 for larger game. Several gauge of shotguns for different types of hunting and skeet shooting.
Live in a blue/purple state now. Our home is an old farmhouse. My study has a gun rack built in to the closet original to the house. It is sized to fit that use pattern and fits my family like a glove.
I gotta go check my groundhog traps, cute little fuckers destroy foundations and you aren’t even allowed to catch and release, by law you are supposed to dispatch and not relocate. I dispatch with a long barrel .22 revolver.
My 16 year old is out shooting his brand new arrived today .22 right now. He has a PL (possession license) while I have a PAL (possession and acquisition license.) He is allowed to possess guns without supervision but he is not allowed to acquire them.
In MA and a few other states gun ownership is a privelege that is granted based on personal bias and can be revoked. They also have training licensing and handling requirements.
Looking at the laws online the only major difference I see is in CA you can no longer buy a handgun due to the freeze.
Gun laws by state vary wildly.
In MA and a few other states gun ownership is a privilege that is granted based on personal bias and can be revoked. They also have training licensing and handling requirements.
I did a little bit of reading and I don’t think that’s true. You have the protected constitutional right to own guns as guaranteed by the second amendment but the exercise of that right is subject to licensing and permitting requirements and may be suspended under some circumstances (such as your being designated a danger to society.) (This sounds more like a, “mah rights!” argument than anything else to me. )
That’s quite different from Canada where you have literally no right to own a gun at all.
Its not though, there is literally constitution legal contention over the issue. There are a few states like MA, NY and a few others where they call it a "may issue"state because it’s not a right in those states.
That’s not how the US constitution works.
Don’t be a republican and confuse an electoral map with people. Most Americans support all of that.
Frankly I’d be surprised if anyone even does their taxes in this next cycle. Give dumpster nothing. Cut him off. Let congress figure out how their gonna pay the military and ICE and golf with their own dime to keep this shit up.
“Doing your taxes next cycle” just accounts for bonuses/corrections after reviewing taxes that had been paid through the year. It happens every paycheck.
Some people have very daringly chosen to withhold all taxes from each paycheck - there are legal reasons you might do this like “I plan to have a large tax write-off”, but without said reason, it’s very possible the IRS would come after you.
I hope people reading this aren’t taking this advice seriously… The IRS will fuck you up. They have less funding, but that only means that they only go after low hanging fruit (AKA people who can’t afford a team of lawyers to fight). They’ll garnish your fucking wages.
Kinda crazy that the comment is so highly upvoted… I get the sentiment, but you’re giving people really bad advice here.
Nice try Steve miller. Go jump up your butt.
OK, go ahead and change your withholding to $0 and see what happens. Publicly announcing your intentions to stop paying federal taxes will definitely help as well.
I do zero withholding every year because I get a higher return by investing it. And I’ve been openly posting about tax resistance for years. It’d be a lot more realistic if my whole state was on board!
I meant “do zero withholding, and then don’t file taxes” as that was the implication.
I know what tax resistance is, I’m just talking about the (very real) consequences that people better be ready for if they take that advice.
DOGE already scrapped the IRS
You think the IRS doesn’t exist anymore? You think that the federal government is just going to stop collecting taxes?
Lol.
Stop whining. She left you for Elon. And it’s entirely justified with how much of an asshole you are. Just think how big of a loser you are to make him the winner.
Idk, the author of “Civil Disobedience” did it. It’s a valid resistance method, or just a way to keep yourself morally consistent. Every kind of resistance has a good chance of bringing harm to yourself.
I personally didn’t file one year; kinda just kept putting it off because I knew I wouldn’t be able to pay my taxes (was a 1099 worker, and suffered some major financial blows that year); nothing ever happened, but it definitely was a risk. I probably won’t do that as an “act of resistance” next year, but will probably try extending as long as possible.
I mean yeah, you can do it… But you’re going to accomplish literally nothing and there’s a good chance that it will cause you much distress.
Most people have their federal tax withheld by their employers and do their taxes in order to get back their overpayment. Are we all going to not do our taxes and leave that overpayment in the government’s coffers? Are employers going to stop doing the withholding? Neither scenario is very likely.
Go to HR. Ask for a W-4, change withholding to $0.
The IRS can change it back via a “lock in letter”.
Well it is a good thing then that DOGE fired the IRS
That’s only going to cause little people more problems as they get audited. The thought is nice but no way would the feds pass up the opportunity to ruin people’s lives for this.
And it’s not like withholding some tax revenues would have any effect on Republican spending. Despite their bullshit “fiscal conservatism” rhetoric, they’ve had no qualms whatsoever about running enormous deficits for more than half a century now. A tax strike would just produce more debt and give Republicans ammo to blame it all on Democrats.
They’ve actually run those deficits up very intentionally. If you aren’t familiar with the Two Santas Strategy, this is worth a read:
For people like me who have some savings and investments but don’t want to run afoul of the law - Just take a couple years off. I’m working part time to cover my cost of living, and I’m not investing. So minimizing what I pay in income tax and taxes on dividends.
the govt doesn’t need money to spend it btw - this is how we got the national debt
this could affect something but not as much as youmight think
In just two days I got my answer.
Trumptard is really really really really trying to start a civil war. Amazing :/
Hasn’t actually happened yet though.
well it IS taco Tuesday
I’m not mad at this at all I’m thrilled a politician is actually fighting back. He has a history of standing up against trump and the gop status quo
That said this is the first time there is any bite to it and the cynic/realist in me is saying it’s cause he is gearing up for presidential nomination and election. I really hope he is not the Democrat choice.
if the good wife/fight taught me anything the democrats already have someone picked out and priming public for itI just wish we had Bernie i wanna see that timline :'(
If history has taught me anything, the dems will run schumer.
I want the timeline where Carter won a second term and the Christian nationalists funding Reagan realized their plan didn’t work and give up on it.
Just reminded me of “Sliders”…
Unfortunately, they tend to try harder when it doesn’t work the first time. The first attempts at the Prosperity Gospel, prior to WWII, were laughed off because it was so obviously self-serving to rich people. They kept at it until it stuck.
i want the timeline where harris won lol
Harris lost before she ran. Not that she was a strong candidate, but the Dems could have ran literal Jesus, Trump was going to come back either way as long as big money was in politics. Maybe if they ran someone who at least promised change, they could have staved off Trump for another 4 years. Would they have sentenced him in another 4 years? Would anyone been able to get people like Thiel and Musk out of politics?
This will get worse before it gets better. I just hope most of it stays contained in the US.
Trump’s health has been declining pretty rapidly, especially his mental health. I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t make it to the end of this term. And if he does I’m not sure he’d be mentally capable of running in 2028
Or how about a timeline where we didn’t immediately give up on Restoration after the Civil War
You’re thinking of Reconstruction. Restoration is just a worthless school of magic.
Lol derp. Fixed.
How much does the state government of California actually pay to the federal government? When we hear these things about states that pay more in federal taxes than they receive aren’t we normally talking about the individuals and businesses filing their federal taxes and then some of that getting back to the state? Most of this isn’t State money going to the feds. It’s the state money of the individuals within the state sending in money.
What taxes is the state collecting and then sending to the feds? At the state stops paying but the individuals keep paying then doesn’t really make any difference? Are individuals going to risk going to prison for federal tax evasion?
I had the disolution of the US for 2035 with California being the first to leave… Fuckin speedrunners
I would like to leave this here as a warning, because it seems relevant to me.
The Reichstag Fire was most likely a false-flag that the Nazis used to consolidate power… They’re waiting for something to pop off so they have an excuse for martial law or whatever. If it doesn’t happen on its own, then they’ll probably just do it themselves. Agents provocateur are the oldest trick in the book.
While I agree, I think that’s a better comparison to the LA protests and the National Guard being called in. An entire state government “going rogue” (and the support that they may or may not have from the other states) is in a whole other class, especially when you consider the legal framework that separates the powers of the state from the federal government. It’s closer to Brexit than anything else, imo, but even that doesn’t truly match up with the intricacies of the power struggle since the members of the EU have their own militaries instead of a unified military under the governance of a body separate from its member countries.
I don’t know how this would work, but do it.
I don’t expect Governor Greaseball to follow though, but I would wholeheartedly support this. And secession. I’d also support secession.
Iirc, California is like the 5th largest economy in the world. Secession sounds like a great way to crash the US economy.
Fourth largest, Texas is eighth.
And a lot of it is tech that can leave state if it needed to
Shutting off the American food supply is the bigger play
Don’t worry, we are already on track for that.
To that I say:
You know what is wild?
The US is the largest economy on the world, and if you remove California from it at #4 the US moves to…
#1 still. Several states make up the top 25 list of GDPs and the total combined is absurd.The US is just massive in scale. It’s fully running the global empire still even if it’s waning. I do think losing California would be a massive hit for lots of reasons but just wild to think about.
GDP does not indicate how big an economy is, it measures how many dollars trade hands in it.
So there are two things about this:
One is that the reason the US GDP is so high is because of price and wage inflation in the service industry that makes up most of it. And I mean white-collar services like software devs, management consultants, doctors and lawyers and the like. It’s a lot of made up money that goes nowhere, you pay a US software engineer twice as much as someone in the EU just for them to have less disposable income PPP than someone in the EU as that extra money ends up with landlords, banks and insurance companies. It’s a shell game that boosts figures.
Two, that shell game is held up by everyone trusting the dollar. Trump is eroding that precise trust, and a Calexit would be another hit to that. Do you know how much the US owes? It doesn’t matter as long as the dollar is king, and I would not have bet against the dollar last year, but it seems like Trump is betting against it and winning. And when everyone is convinced Wall Street is not a safe haven for your money because Trump will just steal it, then that premium on the US GDP will just evaporate, along with a sizeable chunk of the world economy.
Here’s hoping the world lets the US down gently for its own sake.
Yes.
Seriously get paid double and actually have less than a worker in another country since we have to pay for each single piece of life separately at retail prices.
And 2… Yeesh yeah. Literally stocks just keep going up cause the value of the dollar is lowering and nobody knows where to put it to keep it safe other than the stock market… And it does feel like it’s gonna get robbed at some point.
So agreed, just think it’s wild that there is enough money hoarding and spending in any state in the US to beat out lots of countries for GDP and sets the US as the battery that powers the global economy at our pain. I do hope we just drain the battery rather than light it on fire.
The only reason some states aren’t considered third-world is because of the federal system, a fact they so often forget.
Like Vermont ranked at 147th as the lowest GDP state? Or Wyoming at 141?
That’s not compassion to talk about other states like they are mooching off of others but condescension, and we wonder why they are upset. Everybody benefits from the federal budget and the things that make us 3rd world like lack of healthcare and low pay is felt by all types of states.
