Kids got raped and now you’re saying it’s their responsibility to jail the rapists? No.
Not their responsibility, but if they do speak up people should fucking listen and do something about it.
In general I agree but the timing of saying this is peculiar given the E.M. trial.
What’s the EM trial?
The Hockey Canada Sexual Assault Trial. The woman who was involved had the initials EM.
Some Quotes from the woman judge who presided over the case: “Although the slogan ‘believe the victim’ has become popularized of late, it has no place in a criminal trial. To approach a trial with the assumption that a complainant is telling the truth is the equivalent to imposing a presumption of guilt on the person accused of sexual assault and placing the burden on him to prove his innocence. That is antithetical to the fundamental principles of justice enshrined in our constitution.”
“On the basis of all the evidence, I find as a fact that the complainant did express she wanted to engage in sexual activity with the men by saying things like “Is someone going to f—- me” and by masturbating, the judge says.
“I accept the overwhelming evidence that E.M. was acting in a sexually forward manner by masturbating in this room full of men and asking them to engage with her. She communicated her willingness to engage in sexual activity.”
More ironic than peculiar.
Ghislaine Maxwell’s case got reopened. Cuz if there’s no Epstein list than why did she go to jail?
Because she trafficked children. The DoJ’s official story seems to be that Epstein and Maxwell abused children purely for their own edification while hanging out with a bunch of powerful people whom those children later falsely accused of sex crimes out of pure spite.
Because people lie. What we can do is to not victim shame so women would be less afraid to come forward. This alone would help deter a would be attacker
Agreed.
It would also help out men and boys to have a safe environment to come forward with their claims without facing abuse from society/police.
What if…Trump says he isn’t a pedophile because being with any of these girls would make him a hebephile. While there are people who go after young pre-pubescent children, pedophiles, men like Trump, like them pubescent. Yes, everyone likes to use the word pedo because then they don’t have to remember which word means what, but that is also the kind of loophole that Trump and his ilk use to claim their innocence. They aren’t pedos. They are Hebes. Semantics but that’s what criminals like to use to hide their illegal activity.
Is that relevant to something?
I think people do.believe them, it’s just the way justice systems work. It has to be proved without shadow of a doubt.
Justice systems? Where? What woukd that even look like?
To give a serious answer you are right. Its not what you its what you can prove.
It’s not just about trump tho and it’s about concrete evidence. The list is yk about getting a list of all the perpetrators.
First hand witness testimony is evidence though.
And fwiw we’ve already got it. Not to mention he’s already been found guilty of rape in a court of law if we want to go through the whole “sexual assault means rape and the judge said so” thing. “He’s a rapist” is a statement of fact, even if the cowards at ABC News don’t want to say so again.
Nobody who matters (Trumps fanbase, Trumps voters, Trumps politicans and Trumps supreme court) care whether he’s guilty or convicted.
But the Epstein list is something very central to the Trump campagin narrative and thus if he’s on there, that could cause major issues between Trump and his fanbase/voters.
I just want to take a moment to apologize to women for all the bullshit you’ve had to endure, like being treated as interchangeable, objectified, talked down to. None of that is okay, and no one deserves it.
Would be cool if i could smile or show kindness around men without tge near certainty that ill be treated like a piece of meat.
Instead i need to take joy in denying them that.
Would you accept an apology from someone who has hit you in the face and is going to hit you again?
Make it stop first.
Fair point. Accountability > performance. I’ll sit with that.
Why would someone who has never hit you in the face need to apologize?
We do not control others actions.
That’s why we can’t apologize for them. Rachelhazideas @lemmy.world’s comment says it better.
Apology not accepted. If you personally never did any of the above, then an apology is not needed. Nor is it fair to ask of men to apologize on behalf of other men who did. Women don’t want apologies from men who aren’t at fault. They just want men to stand up for them.
I get the sentiment, but wording matters because this is the kind of rhetoric the manosphere loves to take out of context to claim that men have to apologize for just being men.
That’s a fair sentiment individually, but it’s not just an individual problem.
Men don’t just need to be not part of the problem, they need to actively be part of the solution.
I agree that men should actively be part of the solution, but there is a healthy way of doing it without involving guilt and self-depracation.
Men’s mental health is a critical part of feminism. This is because when men’s issues are accepted and destigmatized, it helps destigmatize it for women too. Encouraging mental health support among men means reducing women’s role in providing emotional labor.
Sadly your view is not the norm.
It is. And no, I’m not one of the good ones.
Women are tired of ‘man guilt’ the same way PoC are tired of white guilt. At best, it’s self-depracating. At worse, it’s performative. Women want empathy and to be heard, not to hear an empty gesture that then gets weaponized by anti-feminists.
In Vietnamese there’s no phrase for “thank you.”* It’s more important to have a thankful attitude. I think we could take a lesson on the situation you’re talking about there.
* They use the literal words “thank you”, or it’s equivalent, for visitors, but that’s different.
What a hero. Line up, ladies, we got an ally over here
i, too, believe in gulity until proven innocent
Yeah, until the court system he owns says he’s bad, again, hes good!
well I am not talking about Trump. I believe he’s guilty. There’s plenty of evidence to support that.
Oh so what’s that about the courts?
Okay for instance, with Trump the evidence is written on the walls. Ideally he should be tried and found guilty, but he controls the courts. That’s its own problem, wouldn’t you say?
Compare this with the 5 hockey players that were just acquitted in Canada. It’s a national scandal. But there was a video of the (ostensible) victim giving what the judge considered to be enthusiastic consent and showing no sign of duress whatsoever. Her story is that she was faking consent because she was afraid of the 5 men. If you asked me if she’s definitely lying, I’d say no; and if you asked me if she’s definitely telling the truth, I’d say no. By the principle of innocent until proven guilty, I’d say the judge made the right call in acquitting the men.
I think you’re generally thinking in very simple binary terms. Justice does not dwell there. Justifying it with misogyny is not helpful.
what do you mean?
One degree of certainty, one degree of action, guilt or innocence. Nothing in between.
Enjoy losing your liberty because some lunatic made false accusations on you
(I was being sarcastic)
(It went over my head)
no that’s fair, it seems like these days it’s impossible to tell people’s legitimate takes apart from sarcasm.
What do you wanna bet that, within the next month, a right wing talking head uses that phrase to defend Ghislaine Maxwell?
Actually, most of us can tell the difference between a committed sex trafficker and the actual sex slaves she helped traffic.
If this does get said in her defense, it will be bad faith, and the only people that repeat it will be MAGA loyalists.
Sure seems like a lot of these topics are coming up despite the fact any person with two brain cells to rub together knows there will always be some of any demographic who lies.
Money and government are in the way. Person to person, who the fuck wouldn’t believe the woman?
Well if i have to believe women here, it’s a slippery slope to believing them about my bros!
That is an issue. Just believing women is ideal.
Okay but i can’t turn kn my bro’s, dude. And i don’t wanna be (known as) a guy who’s into rape.
I mean, maybe if we could judge people and try to heal as a community, rather than having some white dude dumb robes do it. Shame, loss of status, violence, restorative justice.
That sounds communist! And who will hurt the people i don’t like?
Anarchist here. And, I’ll do it. What’d they do?
Point out how much i suck in ways i cant refute, not be my slaves, have a life that’s substantially different from mine.
Because the list takes the onus away from women needing to speak out. We shouldn’t require victims to expose themselves if we have other evidence.
Yeah but when victims do expose themselves, it’d be nice if a bunch of online shit heads didn’t constantly chant 'wolen are liars!, they only want money!"
Preaching to the choir in a place like Lemmy.
Agreed
For the record: numerous women have spoke out against Trump for sexual misconduct while underaged. All the named ones are from Miss America or Miss Universe competitions. A couple of Epstein’s victims have filed charges against Trump too but those remain anonymous.
“At least” twenty-five women have publicly accused him and some have gone to court - here’s the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
You can’t just convict someone on vibes
Fortunately pretty much everyone agrees
It’s not called “vibes”, it’s called “witness testimony” and every country on earth totally does convict people based on that
No you can’t. You can however refuse to give them a job because they keep making inappropriate remarks about women and multiple women have accused them of sexual abuse, rape and harassment.
EXACTLY. You don’t need to “trust”, you can look at the comments that were consistently made in regards to women, the vile behavior he engaged in, the known relationships, and the week court cases, i.e the evidence that was there in plain sight but people chose to ignore
Consider that if these women came forward, then the corrupt justice system, that’s supposed to protect them, would dismiss or refute thier claims and leave them vulnerable to the powerful people they tried to expose.
They have to be believed AND protected from those they accuse, else they are just painting a target on their backs.
Women have already come forward and had their lives destroyed. If the general public believed them during their trials, or honestly, if they weren’t intimidated into dropping their case, this shit would already be in prison.
But the testimony of women is valued less by the justice system than the testimony of rich powerful men. That’s the problem. There is less trust in women overall, across the board in this patriarchal society.
refute thier claims
That’s what the defense is supposed to be attempting in an adversarial trial system.
My current bias is that an adversarial system is a good way to actually achieve justice, but I’d be open to learning about non-adversarial criminal trials.
I like the energy, I think Trump should be rotting in prison, but it’s a shit argument that basically gives unrestricted power to random individuals.
