Lemmy has a strong tendency to criticize the US, and a lot of the critiques of certain issue with the US are valid. However, I started getting really tired of opening comment sections in innocuous and non-political posts only to see that someone somehow found a way to criticize the US in it. At first, I started thinking that maybe some Lemmy users are really unhappy and find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better as if standing up to injustice was a passion of theirs. But, we don’t see them do that with other targets, just the US. The more I notice and think about it, I’m starting be suspicious that some of those users and comments aren’t authentic, but made to create divisiveness in the West and reject the US entirely. In other words, they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents working to feed a stream of propaganda in order to further cause chaos and lack of unity in the West as we have seen them do before.
Anyone else think about this?
This is what I’m thinking the game plan is:
- Criticize something obviously unjust that the US has done. Ignore that all other major powers have also committed atrocities.
- Link and liken it to other US matters & behaviors
- Paint the US entirely as evil so that nothing the US can do is just
- Attack anyone that supports anything out of the US (we are between here and #3 above)
- Create a black-and-white model of geopolitics: US vs everyone else. EU and Russia on the same team lol
- West fragments as US and EU relationship dwindle from pseudo-populist movements (e.g. MAGA)
- Pick specific countries in the EU to start alienating and repeat the cycle
- ???
- Profit in special economic zones
I honestly think there are definitely, if not bots, agents/feds that come on here and really push to radicalize people.
As someone who is generally pro-America, pro- capitalism and pro-liberalism (as in, classical, not today’s fucked version), it’s really interesting to converse with people who are just as crazy as the “God is King” types, just flipped on the modern versions of conspiracies and bad takes.
I would add that a lot of what Americans read as “criticism” can be explained by a heady combination of incredibly poor reading comprehension and a lifetime of being spoon-fed humour with a laugh-track.
The amount of angry, abusive reactions to posts that are clearly a joke is hilarious in itself and just makes us wind them up even more
American here. When you elect a man—twice—whose character and policies have led to a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind, it’s no surprise that the world views us with disdain. When your citizens are struggling to afford basic necessities like rent and groceries while a handful of individuals hoard wealth that rivals entire nations, we’ve earned every ounce of criticism.
Buckle up, because the descent into this nightmare is far from over. The worst is yet to come, and it’s going to be a long, suffocating fall.
I find it a little frustrating that you think any of this started with, because of, or will end with cheeto.
This:
a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind
has always been the case, and it is a feature, not a bug. Always has been.
And it will never change as long as you continue to focus on the things the system tells you to focus on (like team red vs team blue, or the clown at the front of the stage) rather than on the system itself (a state mechanism built on slavery and genocide from day dot, and designed and enforced by and for the rich and powerful, who are the ones actually pulling the strings) and abolishing that.
And before OP gets their underwear in a twist - all states are oppressive and should be abolished, but a country founded on and with the biggest hard on for capitalism on the planet, and who has the power to, and has been since its founding, loudly and aggressively dragging the rest of the world on a race to the bottom (if not directly with war mongering and political interfering, then with profiteering off of their enemies war mongering and politically interfering), deserves all the criticism it gets, and the fact that it’s easier for you to create a straw person to dismiss the perfectly valid and long overdue criticism, than it is to hear them and sit with the mild discomfort it causes you to hear the truth and confront reality, is a you problem, not a lemmy problem.
Don’t forget one of our largest cities is currently on fire because of our own man made climate change that we are (I believe) the number one cause of, but those same leaders are telling us to shrug and say “who knows why”
How insanely American to think America being criticized a lot must mean propaganda.
Lemmy.world may have the least of this since they neolib gobblers
I’m American. I love where I live. There’s a lot of great people, food, experiences, and places. It’s a vast place where a lot of great, forward looking things happen.
However, the government allows billionaires to control it and prevents it from serving its people. We are fucking angry.
America: practices actual slavery
American: I love it here.
Christ man, there’s shit to criticise about every nation, none are worth praise imho. But America isn’t even close to being “just a little bit evil” let alone good.
My other comment was removed and I don’t even remember what I said. I just wanted to say that the negative things that a country has done in its past don’t define its people.
I don’t believe that all Chinese, Russian, or North Korean people are evil. They are victims of awful governments. For you to say that it’s not ok that I enjoy the people and culture around me because there are negatives is pessimistic and ignorant.
I’ve taught elementary in Detroit. We are Americans. We work hard. We take of each other and we love our community.
I’m sorry you don’t feel as if your community cares about you. Please know that if you aren’t where people care about you, there’s somewhere that will. I hope you find peace, friend.
We both know why your other comment was removed.
I just wanted to say America didn’t only practice slavery in the past, it practices slavery right now and you “love it there”. Like what you want. I love chocolate [don’t buy it anymore though] and when someone points out there’s a huge slave trade in it I don’t go: "Honey, the adults are speaking. We are X. We work hard. We take of each other and we love our community " I say “you’re right”. The primary teachers I know don’t treat anyone with that amount of condescention, veiled or otherwise.
It isn’t more “adult” to ignore the problems of the world. It is, by definition, more ignorant though. Your previous comment called me a child. It didn’t say anything else. Just called me a child, don’t get on your high horse now, no-one is buying it.
I’ll not “proud to be an American”. I like my peers. I like where I live. I can’t right the wrongs of the world by myself. I do my part and I am at peace with the people around me. I hope you can find that one day too.
No-one is asking you to. Are you sure you’re replying to the right person? Can you show me where I suggested you should. I gave you an example in my previous comment about a thing I used to love, and still do really, being drenched in slavery. Perhaps use that? Tilt at some other windmill.
My only statement is that a nation currently practicing slavery isn’t worthy of your love. I suppose you’d put it like:
“I hope one day you find a less abusive country that might be worthy of your love”
And nothing will change through voting for nothing candidates like Kamala or Trump
What’s lemmy.selfhostcat.com known for?
Based on this thread, sucking off China.
I would be surprised if hostile countries thought that Lemmy was popular enough to bother infiltrating. They probably haven’t heard of Lemmy at all.
I think the explanation is simply that Lemmy’s users are all contrarians, or else they would be using Reddit. Frequently they are of the international leftist sort due to the founder effect.
I think the explanation is simply that Lemmy’s users are all contrarians, or else they would be using Reddit. Frequently they are of the international leftist sort due to the founder effect.
You also get pretty aggressively censored/banned for expressing opposition to US foreign policy on reddit. For example hexbear is on here and has the culture it has because it was originally a lifeboat for a leftist subreddit that got banned.
find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better
🤦
Are you for real? And you are surprised US and USians get criticised?
There is plenty to criticize the US about, and I say that as an American. We sure as shit are very, very far from perfect. The same is true for every country to varying degrees.
That said, yeah, I’m still suspicious of it and you should be too. People are always being manipulated to act against their own self interest and it would be wise to stop and consider the message and where it’s coming from.
The US bullies nearly every other nation on the planet, they also bully thier supposed friends. People have little option with a bully aside from vociferous push back.
You’re right that the US is strong, they way you deal with your disputes is violence, or implied violence.
Look at the ICC where they will hurt the judges becase they have an arrest warrant out for Netanyahu to investigate war crimes but were all ra ra when the Court did the same for Putin. The US has an invade the Hauge Act if the same court investigates any US citizens for war crimes
https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
Lemmy is more geographically diverse then many places online, so perhaps instead of taking umbrage, listen ?.
I agree wholeheartedly. My assumption was that such behavior was simply a symptom of the relatively larger proportion of Europeans on this site, and their obvious jealousy and insecurity regarding Americans. I still believe that is the most likely explanation. To be clear, America has done hella dumb shit lately, and is deserving of criticism on many fronts. But what OP is referring to goes beyond that. It’s emotional animosity that overflows the bounds of reasonable criticism and targets individuals rather than governmental decisions or policies.
The number of times that I have seen people refer to the American contribution to WWII as cowardice, meaningless, etc, is too damn high. 400,000 Americans died in that war. Read a fucking history book you ignorant, insensitive fucks.
It’s certainly possible that there are agents in our midst sowing divisiveness, although unlikely. I don’t have any beef with any nationality, because I don’t judge people based on where they were born. That should be common sense, but it’s apparently difficult for some people to wrap their heads around.
You think Europeans are jealous of Americans? You couldn’t pay me to live there, especially with Trump in power.
Yes. America controls the world, and Europeans are salty about it. I didn’t even realize how salty until I started using Lemmy, but it’s incredibly obvious on here.
FWIW, I would be salty too. But you can also be mature about it and realize that the average American isn’t to blame for this reality.
No, stop, I can’t fucking breath… 🤣🤣🤣
their obvious jealousy and insecurity
don’t judge people based on where they were born
very difficult to wrap your head around isn’t it.
and their obvious jealousy and insecurity regarding Americans.
ba
ha
hahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahha
Thanks, I haven’t had such a good hearty laugh in a long while… 😂😂😂
The lack of self awareness truly is fucking staggering.
Fucking clown.
Lemmy was founded to be where anti-American Americans would go after a lot of their subs were quarantined on Reddit.
That said, it has a major American focus because a lot of users are angry with the American system and don’t have a ton of experience with others directly. They’ve developed an echo chamber here and only got interrupted by the Reddit exodus.
America has made a LOT of mistakes, and started (or backed) plenty of wars/revolutions. We’re the only major industrialized nation without some form of healthcare for all. The gap between rich and poor is tremendous, and only growing larger. Our legal system has some flaws, to say the least. America is the richest, most powerful country in the world. We didn’t get that way by always making ethical decisions. There’s a great deal of legitimate criticism out there.
Plus, this is a worldwide site. If Americans themselves don’t always like how the country is run, why should people of other countries always speak positively of America?
Fuck the US hyper-centrism. If this place was so anti US, why are all the communities titled “News” and “Politics” exclusively for discussing seppo shit? This place is less US-centric than other platforms but is still extremely US focused. If you look for more than a second, you will find anti-russia, anti-china, anti-israel and anti-germany shit too (just to name a few). Finally, I just want to say, fuck the United States of America and everything that that hellhole represents. I am sorry that you have to live there
I understand the concern and certainly believe that troll farms are slowly creeping into Lemmy as it gains traction. However, I think most of US bashing is authentic as it reflects the enormous impact of US political life on the rest of the planet. Moreover, other countries receive a constant flux of information about the US, to the point where it seems that US news is as important as domestic news. The fact that Trump remains omnipresent in the media doesn’t help either.
I get this part, and I agree with a lot of critique. What I’m noticing is that it seems that I’m seeing more hate than valid objective critique. It seems to me that a lot of the anti-US comments are merely to criticize the US out of hate than to criticize a behavior.
Imagine it were people instead of countries. This is like being at a party with friends and Marcel is not present. Marlon shares that he likes coffee without creamer. Martiza says she does too. Misty then says, “Did you know that Marcel uses raw milk instead of creamer in his coffee? What a piece of shit. It wouldn’t surprise me though. Everything he does is terrible. Remember, he cheated on Mariah in 2006. He’s probably cheating on Merced right now.” That’s completely unnecessary and irrelevant.
That’s what it feels like to me. It’s not just critique. It’s hate in discussions that are irrelevant to the US. That’s been my observation at least, but I’m bringing it up to see if maybe I’m a bit too suspicious or paranoid.
True, we’ve already seen that right wingers are paid off by Russia to spout about inflation and other brain rot. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnJ6Ttaiu9M ) And a lot of people who are from the US compare their country to EU countries and find glaring holes in their society, like a lack of socialised healthcare, streamlined government services, ect and rant about it like Lemmy is twitter. Keep in mind that because Lemmy is majority English speaking the vast majority of post will be about the US, because its the defacto empire of the 21st century. For me I go out of my way to include communities from my own culture so I’m not out of the loop. The kinds of people who post politics to !Menes are the same people who take the definition of “meme” literally, and suck to talk to at every party they attend.
There’s no evidence this happens on Lemmy though. You don’t need a conspiracy to explain the fact that the site was founded by people with a certain viewpoint and it has and continues to attract more such people as it grows.
I would say that there’s cross-section of users from different instances whose community have different expectations regarding netiquette. .ml or .grad users posting about how they hate america or (insert country here) is fine in their instance, but is annoying/insulting for other instances users. (.ml and grad are just examples and not exclusive to them.) There is no evidence of governmental interference for many reasons ranging from: its not actually happening, to, no one is looking for it, to, its too hard to detect. Imho most people are influenced by the ziteguist of opinion. And a little embellishment here and there on Twitter, is enough to spread the “general knowledge” that the world is so bad and there’s nothing we can do. Even better, platforms promote this content to drive more engagement making the general opinion even worse.
Stop fucking declaring war on your allies and neighbours if you don’t want people fucking pissed at you.
When the sentiment is anti-west generally, and anti-EU, then it seems sus to me, just anti-American feels pretty valid.
Am American, agree 100%. JFC we’ve destabilized countries around the world and are now getting hurt fee-fees because people are rightfully pissed off about it‽ We’ve made the world significantly less safe and now want to play the victim.
I had nothing to do with that. I’m not happy it happened. I’m pissed off that it ever happened. People in other countries aren’t pissed at ME and I understand that, but they are definitely rightfully, pissed at my country and so am I.
