Might help also to describe what you think feminism is, since it’s one of those terms that is overloaded.
I once had a physical therapist tell me she wasn’t a feminist because she thought women couldn’t be as physically capable as men when serving as soldiers, and seemed to believe feminism requires treating women exactly like men.
I told her I was a feminist because I believe in equal rights for men and women, an idea she did not seem so opposed to.
You must log in or register to comment.
I’m an egalitarian. I believe women and women are, and should be treated, equal(ly).
The clue is in the name feminist. Feminism is about equality in the same way an advocate of masculinism is an advocate of equality.
Why do you think feminism as an egalitarian movement is focused on women?
That’s unfortunately not how words work.
Get into etymology and you’d be surprised at the number of words whose current meanings are complete 180s from their historical definitions.
You can’t just look at a word a decide what it means. Very few people use the word feminist to intend what you are claiming it means.
Suggesting they secretly intend your interpretation is mad, and claiming everyone except you is using the word wrong just means youre the one who has its definition wrong.
There are various schools of feminism, some of which have conflicting opinions. But the common feminist standpoints, like equal rights, seem to be just common sense for me, especially in this day and age. I’m not sure the requirement for equal physical ability fits into the equation.
At least for me, going out and saying that you are feminist carries a sort of special connotation, so I wouldn’t readily emblazon myself with the feminist label even though I stand by conventionally feminist ideas.
the physical therapist had a misconception of what feminism is, probably due to conservative misinformation that presents egalitarian movements like feminism as forcing men and women to be treated the same, and in this case the PT thought this meant soldiers were being forced to have women on their units that would slow them down or make them less effective because they weren’t allowed to vary the tasks based on strength because of “feminism”. I’m not even sure her story was based in reality, tbh - I’m not sure whether the military integrates women soldiers that way, but either way she has internalized some griping from her husband about this.
Either way, it’s interesting to me you wouldn’t identify as a feminist even if you agree with feminism - I wonder what connotations it has, and how those connotations will change if people who are feminists don’t own that … That was part of why I owned being a feminist in my interaction with the PT - she clearly had a misunderstanding of what feminism is, so I clarified why I see myself as a feminist. Otherwise she might not ever be challenged in her views, and “feminism” just becomes the absurd strawman she rejects.
If, say, I hear that “Bob is a feminist”, I reflexively think that Bob is somehow renowned or outspoken in contrast to the general public for supporting feminist causes, perhaps as an educator, figurehead, or activist. I’m not sure what other specific situations I would emphasize myself as feminist, but I’d do the same if put in your situation as a way of standing up.
I think the reflex naturally makes sense, but from the people I personally know to be outspoken and definitionally feminist, it’s more like calling yourself a feminist says you explicitly side with the feminist cause. Sort of like saying you’re anti-racist rather than identifying as someone lacking racism, which is actually a farce when we’re all biased.
oh interesting, the idea is that being a feminist is more than just about beliefs, it implies something more, like being an activist …
I tend to think identifying as a feminist is a lower bar, it just signifies you are in favor of equal rights among genders. I would have no problem identifying as a feminist just broadly - like on a bio, or in conversation.
I have to think about your meaning more, though - I feel like I have some sense of that, it’s maybe a bit like being “vegan” - it implies not just a belief, but maybe also actions you take. Perhaps being a feminist implies something like that in your world, that you are actively engaged in the feminist movement - whether organizing, theorizing, etc.
Either way, thanks for expanding my mind!
it just signifies you are in favor of equal rights among genders
It doesn’t “just signify that” though, as much as feminists act like it does. The term “feminist” does signify a person who, at least ostensibly, is in favor of equal rights among genders, but using that term also, necessarily, implies belief in the harmful dogma that is inseparable from the term itself (patriarchy theory, etc.). This creates a false dichotomy that makes people feel that in order to support equal rights they must also buy into feminist dogma, and that’s not at all the case.
Luckily, though, feminism doesn’t have a monopoly on gender equality, and it’s important to let people know that fact, both because of how incredibly misleading “feminism just means gender equality” is and because there are plenty of other more useful, more egalitarian frameworks through which to view the push for equality.
I am a feminist.
Feminism means all genders should be treated equal, but that does not mean men should also get paid menstrual leaves at their job. Equal rights, yes. Everyone should be treated fairly.
It’s a really shit word to use if it’s supposed to mean equality.
Are there any other words we can use to replace feminism that doesn’t show bias towards one side?
isn’t the nature of inequality that one side is privileged while another is marginalized?
Feminism is about gender equality, which means addressing the inequality that exists. You seem confused about what equality is about …
I’ll accept that feminism is about furthering the rights of women.
It’s not about equality, though, which is why we never hear feminists complaining about men in the draft or a lack of female representation in sanitation services.
It’s also a terrible word to use if it is about equality because it clearly favors one group over others. If you want to support equality, you should use a different word.
I kind of agree on this. Women cannot expect equal pay for less work.
But that’s not what they are expecting. They expect to not have to work if they are sick. And that should apply to anyone, shouldn’t it? Which leaves the question, who has to care for the sick? Historically that would be the family, but nowerdays with the focus on individualism, either everyone has to care (e.g. by some health care system) or we just accept that sick people are not cared for in our society and hope that we don’t get sick. I know I prefer the first solution
The problem is grey area in what sick means when it comes to periods. Is low mood sick? Is PMS sick? Is pain during periods sick? Is being irritable sick? This makes it seem like an excuse at time.
Men should also be then allowed to take leaves when they feel like shit or something. Point is equal pay for equal work. Women can’t expect to be CEOs and stuff when they don’t put in equal work. There are women who get to high posts inspite of all these problems and I respect that. I guess it is more of an individual to individual thing about who puts in efforts, who is truthful, etc.
I absolutely guarantee you one of those things is not like the others. Period pain can be truly debilitating, especially for a person with endometriosis. It is totally worth time off.
Also, I find your insinuation that women take time off for ‘low mood’ and ‘being irritable’ frequently—as opposed to men—rather sexist and offensive, not to mention not reflective of reality.
However, I do like how you inadvertently stumbled into the idea that we should all have more sick days and mental health should be included in the definition of ‘health’. Taking time off for a mental ‘breather’ should be normalized in our society. I also think higher-mental-stress jobs like 911 dispatcher should get more mental health off-time.
If it is a diagnosed disease, then time off is no brainer. However, then they should not expect any promotions over other people without the disease (assuming equal work/hour).
Also, I find your insinuation that women take time off for ‘low mood’ and ‘being irritable’ frequently—as opposed to men—rather sexist and offensive, not to mention not reflective of reality.
I don’t have data, it is based on my observations of people and opinions. I’d be happy to be proved wrong.
inadvertently stumbled into the idea
Because anyone other than “feminists” does not have a brain to come up with ideas intentionally. This statement is the perfect example why feminism is being promoted in an extremely stupid way. You attack the very people who are willing to engage in constructive discussions by calling them stupid. Then, you are surprised when they fight back and call them sexist pigs. No wonder men hate feminism as a movement.
then they should not expect any promotions over other people without the disease (assuming equal work/hour).
Are you saying if they work the same hours, but take off more of their sick days because of a disease, they shouldn’t get a promotion?
No, I am assuming that they do the same amount of work per hour
And where in my previous post did I call you stupid?
You speak of mental health days in a derogatory way, as if you find the very idea that people should take care of their mental as well as physical health offensive, for reasons I don’t understand.
I’m saying that your mocking statement about taking days off for such things should in fact be something we do, and something we should find acceptable to do.
If someone is sick, and gets certified as such by a licenced medical doctor, they get leave. Why is this so complicated?
Defining it as paid menstrual leave is kind of the problem. Hear me out.
Women should be able to take paid leaves from work to deal with menstrual problems, but it shouldn’t stop there. All people should be able to take leave from work when they need it.
So, if it is redefined as paid leave, then it equalizes the field.
I think the “when they need it” part is where the feminism becomes relevant - there is a history of women (and men) being denied leave when they need it for sexist / patriarchal reasons (e.g. men are generally not given paternity leave, women might not be allowed to take leave due to menstruation).
I get you. But say, a company has a policy that we give employees 2 paid leaves per month, for example, a woman can take those 2 paid leaves for the same reasons as the men do, but they would also need a day more of paid leaves to deal with the menstrual pain/stress. If that extra day is not defined as “menstrual leaves” men would argue that why are women getting more leaves, and hence the feminism thing will be broken as both are not treated fairly.
Same in the case of pregnancy. Companies give 2 months of paid leaves for that.
Or maybe the right thing to do is, just say, if you’re pregnant, you get paid time off, if you’re having periods you get paid time off. Do not include gender in it.
Idk man.
But I think the idea is that men should get the same lenience, i.e. just-feeling-wrecked-leave rather than menstrual-leave. The difference in having a baby should be that one needs medical leave too, in my mind.
And that’s why the amount of paid leave should not be limited by time but by reason. If you can’t work because you’re pregnant or sick or whatever, you get paid leave until you are better. And the employer or coworkers don’t even need to know why you can’t work, that’s for a doctor to decide. And anyone saying it’s not fair if they have to work more because they are not sick as often is obviously just selfish and not interested in equality
I get what you’re saying, but if a woman is given more benefits than a man, businesses are disincentivized to hire women.
Unless the government subsidizes their wages or reduces tax burdens for companies that have more diverse hiring
That’s what we do in my country. If you hire only men you generally qualify for fewer government programs. In some cases you cant bid on the job if you don’t have sufficient representation for specific groups.
I feel like in a modern context, “feminism” is inapplicable. While there has never been a female US President, what does Barack Obama buy Blacks in America? Tokenist identity achievements have been disproven by an ineffective and lazy neoliberal elite in terms of advancing “where they came from.” There are more prominent, professional, relevant women in the rightwing recasting of “having it all” over on the trad-wife side, which has been ironic since Phyllis Schlafly, but has never had a bad day, and isn’t having one now…
This feels dismissive of feminism, and seems to miss the point by citing a bunch of examples that are anti-feminist. You’re getting caught up in political drama and missing that this is a life philososophy that can underpin how any one person fundamentally treats others and that exists independently of current events. The question is, are you a feminist?
I would say I am now. I wasnt a few years ago but after roe v wade being overturned, the subsequent shitshows, as well has government powercreep against rights I believe women should yield, turned me into a feminist. There are obviously issues that men face, but I believe women are most at risk of oppression under this current administration. Especially with how frequently the blatant fascist dog whistle of “traditional family values” is blown nowadays. Republicans are desperately trying to cram women back into the kitchen and domestic servitude.
Yeah, I’m a feminist. I’m also a masculinist.
Basically, if there’s not a good reason to prevent you from doing something, you shouldn’t be fucking prevented from doing it.
Who or what you were born as, or what you identify as, in and of itself, is not a good fucking reason.
Motherfuckers that try to prevent other people from living their own lives because of their own assumptions need to fucking fuck off.
No harm, no foul.
Somehow ive decided to just live life by this mantra and its going OK so far. I don’t have to understand or like anything that anyone’s doing, but as long as they aren’t hurting anyone its fine.
As an anarchist, sexism and cisheteropatriarchy are unjustifiable hierarchies, and therefore I oppose them. In turn, this makes me an intersectional feminist.
(This comment uses translation software.)
Yes. I am a feminist, though I am skeptical.
Some feminists argue(Article in Japanese) that the gender equality brought about by feminism also liberates men from the suffering unique to them.
I take a similar stance, believing that the ‘gender equality’ brought about by male feminism, which seeks happiness for men, also liberates women from the suffering unique to them. In some ways, I am a reactionary feminist.
Previously, I was a male feminist with old-fashioned thinking, striving to eliminate only women’s suffering, not men’s.
However, I changed my mind after the Japanese government, where I live, adopted a policy of allocating “female admission quotas” at prestigious universities, including national universities, as part of its affirmative action program, modeled on America’s racial admission quotas.
Even back when I supported traditional feminism, I was critical of the current state of university education in Japan, where there are public women’s universities but no public men’s universities. I also believe that expanding these quotas to general universities would violate the Constitution, which proclaims gender equality. I cannot trust traditional Japanese feminism, which supports the unconstitutional status quo, and that is why I have become the skeptical feminist I mentioned earlier.
The thing about feminism is it benifits everybody. Men are a victim of the patriarchy as are women. I believe feminism is necessary to create a better world for everybody.
I don’t like labels and I never considered myself a feminist but I probably am compatible to this label. I simply try to be a decent person to everyone regardless of virtually everything, and constantly ask myself whether any kind of bias or prejudice played a role in an opinion or decision I made.
Yes.
Comrades, there is no true social revolution without the liberation of women. May my eyes never see and my feet never take me to a society where half the people are held in silence. I hear the roar of women’s silence. I sense the rumble of their storm and feel the fury of their revolt.
- Thomas Sankara
Thomas Sankara was a true hero that was killed because he dared to threaten the status quo of “haves and have-nots.”
I believe in balancing quotas and rebuilding social structures to be more inclusive. That’s something that takes several generations to bear fruit.
Shaming or bullying anyone for what kind of body or privilege they were born into is where I draw the line.
I am a staunch second-wave feminist. I believe in equal rights and equal respect for men and women and everyone else who doesn’t fit into that binary, and that all should be able to work toward the life that suits them best without worrying about traditional gender roles.
It makes me sad to see women who are quick to say they’re not a feminist, because they certainly benefit from feminism and I think they’d be rightly enraged if that went away. If they lost the right to vote, to have a bank account or own a home, to pursue whatever education interests them and work in that field, to choose whether/when/how to have children (RIP Roe v Wade), etc. I think a lot of women take a lot of these things for granted, but they exist because of feminism.
Sadly, I think the term ‘feminism’ has been successfully demonized in online spaces, to the point that many think it’s the same as feminazi. In part this is because the most awful and vocal part of any movement draws a lot of negative attention, and subsequently those who are against equality for women can use feminazis as a boogeyman to denigrate the feminist movement.
"feminazi’ is kinda like calling a woman a “female”. Its use conveys a “I’m a sexist pig” message you do not seem to intend.
Better terms for women who believe that (cisgender) women are superior to men.
- Feminine Supremacist
- Feminine Chauvinist
- Sexist Woman
- Man-hater
- Anti-feminist
- F.A.R.T.
- Sexist woman
- Sexist pig
Some of these may covey other messages in their usage.
I’m not, because I do nothing actively in feminist political spaces. I believe opinions count nothing and don’t change the world, so I don’t want to be bundled up with the plenty of people who use it as a label for virtue signaling while not actually putting the effort in.
I’m a feminist, opposed to any unjust hierarchy really. One of the things that set me off at a young age was how the US never passed the equal rights amendment.
Also in my home country the women’s liberation movement was tied up with the communist movement which also is why I have a lot of the politics that I do
