I see my next phone being a flipphone. I don’t like how locked down mobile platforms are already, and smartphones are so big now.
Netbook 2-in-1’s look promising, picked one up off eBay to update my mobile rollout when all this started. ~550ish USD for a better CPU, more RAM, easily replaceable storage and battery, and actually compatible with Linux, all for the price of Google’s 9a at launch. It will be slightly more inconvenient to travel with, but I’ll try to fully replace the smartphone with a flip when that’s ready for an update.
Google seems to be gambling that their monopoly is big enough to start strongarming everyone, but with a slight reimagining, their mobile division can be completely cut out of my life, and the replacement devices are cheaper per specs and more open to modification, so really I should’ve done this long ago.
Things are changing, but the people who care enough about this will change too. Still sad about it, was hoping the smartphone platform would go the other way and become more open. Mobile processors have more throughput and better energy efficiency now than briefcase laptops from the 2005 - 2010 era. Always dreamed of everything evolving into a single device where my phone could plug into a docker and replace my office desktop for web browsing, but I just don’t see it happening in a closed environment like this.
Honestly? even if we succeed in this , Google will simply fuck things up in something else, the only real solution is that it completely looses people acceptnace , and that’s the hardest part because the majority don’t think about changing things if it’s comfortable enough
Like shelving Android completely like so many of their successful products?
Kinda, or any action that pulls the rug enough so that Google makes concessions because it can’t use its privileges as a corporation , but it’s hard to see this happening now
Google will not acknowledge any Petition.
The only real solution is to install an Alternate Android or Linux Phone OS
The number of available unlocked phones is shrinking and even the new ones are running old hardware.
I want something with a recent processor, a good camera, GPS, Tailscale, 18 hours of battery life a good enough browser to get to my bank and edit photos and a watch that gets a few days of run on a charge and i’d like to have enough admin access to code turning on and off radios and services based on location and relatively good security.
Linux is not up for this yet, postmarket is moving quickly, but it’s still way behind
Hallium+ubuntu touch is fragile if you change the image.
Graphine and Lineage have security third and a questionable future if android upstream goes to shit.
I think we’re watching a major shift happen, similar to when smartphones took over. At the moment, I can’t see the market ever opening back up the way it was, because apparently smartphones are produced at a loss. If there’s really no way to manufacture them at a reasonable cost, they’re never ever gonna let go of the hardware control ever again. The last couple decades were just a long con to grab market share, now we’re in the late stage where they lock down and grab as much data as possible, laws be damned.
I just spent too much time writing another comment on this post, but I have the same wants as you:
recent processor, a good camera, GPS, Tailscale, 18 hours of battery life a good enough browser to get to my bank and edit photos
I really think we’re watching the smartphone era fade away for tech-minded people, and it’s time for us to just ditch the expectations and let go of the all-in-one convenience. Phones for talk/text, dedicated devices for everything else. Most of these specs you mentioned can be exceeded in a compact touchscreen 2-in-1 netbook, for about the same cost as a flagship phone, and be fully compatible with Linux. Currently tablet sized, almost small enough to fit in a purse, but hopefully smaller variants come around in the future.
Only issue is GPS and camera. Phone GPS modules aren’t very precise as it is, hopefully we get a compact USB receiver someday. And cameras never really made sense in a phone to me. Loved the convenience, and I will miss them dearly in my future phones, but a cheap digital camera will beat all but the high end flagship phones, both in price and image quality.
The only way to apply any pressure is to make them lose marketshare.
You’re literally going to need a large consortium of “public interest technologists” (Something like Futo plus Graphene on steroids) to get together and bankroll the manufacture of new hardware that supports something similar to the Google Titan M2, plus unlockable and relockable bootloader. As I understand that will be no small feat because of the engineering required, and because all device vendors are competing for fab and production line space with all the other established device manufacturers.
Then you need robust degoogled OS options, likely based on AOSP, that can pair with that hardware.
Remember after widespread public outcry, petitions, and developer pushback google still went ahead with Chrome’s Manifest v3 because it made adblockers worse? This won’t accomplish anything.
The best thing would be to stop using google services but many (most?) banking apps refuse to run on phones without Google’s blessing. It’s fucked up and should be illegal
That would be the best thing, but that’s a really tall order.
The only product capable of handling what they’re doing is Apple and they’re just as locked down, if not more.
The Linux phones aren’t really there yet, and the Halium-based models are unpleasantly locked down as well.
The mobile market is really stagnant. We need some fairly recent hardware with open software on it, but even if the market was ready to buy, the software is nowhere near ready to fill the need and the hardware is becoming less available by the day.
My banking app works without google :)
Which ones ?
Don’t use banking apps. Use banking websites. And if your bank does not allow you to do everything on the website, change banks. I did.
can’t, without 2fa from the banking app on my phone.
Do you actually have to open the banking app? Or is it one of those TOTP codes? Because if it’s a TOTP code, you can use any password manager, including keypass xc on Linux.
If they force you to use the app, switch banks.
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no totp code. i’m forced to use banking app 2fa.
i don’t know of a single bank that isn’t doing this over here, i would switch in a heartbeat.
It’s likely that the smaller the bank is, the less likely it is to be doing this. So maybe a local bank over a national bank or maybe an older bank that’s been around for a lot longer instead of a neo bank.
When I switched banks, I went from a NeoBank to a bank that has been established for quite a while because it has older technology.
I recently read a Kevin Mitnick book from a few years back. At the time, he recommended buying a cheap Chromebook, locking it up at home, and use it for banking - and ONLY banking. Never anything else.
Nowadays, a person could do that with a phone.
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I am about to check/do this. Problem is the national ID system, based on apps that work the same way.
How do elderly people deal with it because they are less likely to have smart devices or less likely to understand how to use them properly?
Whatever way they deal with it, you can use as well.
I have never heard of anyone not “dealing with it”. Most probably they are just asked to go in person to some physical office with a passport or something. In that case, no thank you.
Didn’t even hear about this. Would this impact other OS’s, like Graphene or Lineage?
As long as you don’t install Google Play services on them, no it would not.
Fine, at least for now:
https://mastodon.social/@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social/115135404985369728
Their next likely move will be to require all apps to pass integrity check, which means, unless developers are specifically crafting non-integ apps for f-droid, there will be less apps available for non-google play services devices.
In the short term, perhaps. If someday Google decides to stop publishing open source updates to Android, though…
Eventually all the ROM teams would have to either massively ramp up their development responsibilities to cover every aspect of an aging Android codebase, or shut down as users leave because their project is dangerously outdated. Or probably both, because even if they tried to take over development, what ROM team is going to have the resources for that on a long term basis?
Something makes me think if that happens that LineageOS will become a system in its own right and the community will step up and do the work required to keep it properly up to date.
So then we will have three mobile operating systems, iOS, Android, and LineageOS. iOS will be made by Apple, Android will be made by Google, and LineageOS will be made by the open source community. Don’t get me wrong, I assume development will become slower, but I don’t think it will stop entirely.
This would be the best outcome. I don’t even care if the OS gets “outdated”. If it’s good enough and runs F-Droid I’ve got everything I need.
Same.
That would be awesome to see. OEM bootloaders (and their fuses) and dealing with the proprietary drivers/blobs are the things that really need to be tackled with resources to be on as many devices as possible. I doubt those companies will want to play nice depending on whatever Google demands to be allowed Google Play Services. It is so hard to actually break into the OS market for mobile at all, but it is dedication that LineageOS has had that has kept it alive and updating. I hope that all the custom ROMs and the Linux Mobile OSes help each other out to the benefit of everyone on all levels of phone/tablet tiers.
Not defending Google but I have a but (no typo - although I’m the proud owner of a double t version as well. But I digress.)
Google is not getting rid of sideloading. They are implementing a registration process for devs and then do a check if they have the info on record before allowing an app to be installed. It is possible for you to download an APK from wantsomalware dot com and install it as long as the developer registered with Google - as all the malware dipshits will manage to do on burner accounts, which will not curb the spread of malware, which is their stated aim. Technically, your bank could distribute its app on its website as long as they registered with the Goog. But it will render abandoned projects uninstallable and that’s the rub.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like this either. Twisting their words though isn’t helping either.
Corey Doctorow pointed out that it is mad that we call it sideloading. Installing an APK is the same, whether it’s coming from Play, F-droid, or the dark web. There should not be this distinction. Lobby your politicians on this matter. G will not GAF about this petition - it’s PR for the cause at best. Only the tag team of legislature and judiciary can set this right.
I think your definitions don’t quite match common use. When people think about sideloading, they think about installing apps from a third-party source that are not approved by the primary vendor. That’s precisely what Google is going to block.
You also mentioned that the rub would be that abandoned projects will be uninstallable. That’s true, but that’s vastly understating the problem. The real problem is not that abandoned projects will be rejected, because they would phase out due to version upgrades within a few years anyway. The real problem is that programs that would take power or money away from Google are guaranteed to be rejected or delayed for bullshit reasons. And even if they are initially accepted, Google can always pull a Darth Vader and reject them later, as soon as they feel threatened. And all of that shouldn’t be happening at all on an open source operating system on a cell phone that we purchased when we’re controlling it ourselves.
This is also an imperialistic move. What happens if someone from Iran or Palestine tries to create an account on Google’s server? Will they be blocked as a terrorist? I think maybe they will. So then the only software that’s allowed to run on Android phones is going to be software that’s approved by Google, which is subject to pressure from the United States government. But we don’t even have to go that far to find the badness. If a marginalized group has a software developer who wishes to remain anonymous that creates a perfectly good program that will help out that marginalized group, by Google’s new rules they won’t be able to distribute it.
That’s the real rub. All of that. Google’s strong desire to gain as much control over its own applications as Apple has on the iPhone. This is a massive grab for money and power, and we should never think of it as some minor thing that might mildly inconvenience abandoned projects.
I think your definitions don’t quite match common use. When people think about sideloading, they think about installing apps from a third-party source that are not approved by the primary vendor. That’s precisely what Google is going to block.
See the end of my pervious comment. The fact that we call that “sideloading” in common parlance is a magic trick Google has already played on us and we ate it up. Resist.
The way I understand sideloading is installing an app through a way that isn’t Play. So F-droid - as one example - is sideloading because you need to go through the overly dramatic warning messages to enable the install from unknown sources. If all the devs in F-droid’s repository theoretically registered with Google, nothing will change. The only difference is that Google wants to know who made it. They make it harder and shittier and thus limit our choices, yes. But they don’t block everything outright.
The problem arises for apps, whose developer doesn’t want Google and by legal extension the American judiciary to have access to their information. That’s a privacy concern that I find very concerning too. I’m not defending Google’s choices here. I hate it. I also don’t like the inevitable hyperbole going the other way.
If it was about security, you could add an alternative signing authority from another org you trust to verify software. This is about giving them the ability to “turn off” revanced and other apps they don’t like regardless of where they are downloaded.
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Chromecast is kil?
Also, Google Music? I thought they had YouTube Music. I do remember Google Play Music (RIP collections of songs and albums by rather big artists I purchased for 0 Monies about 10 years ago and could download as files but have since lost)
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One of my bigger concerns from all this is that reduced access to users to install apps might have chilling effects on app development. It’s great being able to get apps from Itch.io, GitHub, and FDroid, but will developers continue releasing there if the user base dries up? I guess apk-mirror will likely still continue, since they’re ripping from the Play store anyway.
Wouldn’t it be better to petition a political power… Such as the EU or the UK parliament?
This is already sorted out by law in the EU. Now they just have to wait for Google to follow up on their intent.
On the one hand I support this wholeheartedly. On the other, this may be the fuel finally needed to push a Linux phone or two more mainstream. I’m conflicted.
Use of non-play store apps is not mainstream enough for Linux phones to get more than a little bump from this.
At this stage, it helps when more devs are motivated to switch over and build/improve stuff to cover the things they want to do with a phone. And there’s relatively many devs among those who use F-Droid.
I’m not technically affected by Google doing l this just yet, because I don’t use the Play Services, but with that move coming after they encroached on Custom ROMs twice, I can tell that I need an exit plan. And there’s nothing quite for motivation than slowly being backed into a corner.
I hope something good comes of it.
I’ll just vote with my feet
Like Carl?
