- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
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When I had an iPhone 3GS I got in a hot tub with it in my pocket and it died. I let it dry out. Then I very carefully took it apart and found all the little white stickers inside that turn from white to pink when in contact with water. I used a razor blade to remove those stickers without damaging them. I then placed a drop of bleach on each which turned them back to white and let them dry out. I used very tiny amounts of super glue to re-apply them to the exact same positions within the phone and then very carefully reassembled the phone.
Took the phone into an Apple store. Guy disappeared into the back for about 10 minutes with it. Came back out and said it must have just up and died but he doesn’t know how and gave me a new iPhone.
Only Apple product I’ve ever owned.
Fuck you Apple.
nooice
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Oh we are way passed the point where “voting with your dollar” means literally anything. These billionaires are making more money than they ever have in human history. They have literally turned all of society across large swaths of the world into a gigantic personal capital generator. It makes literally not a single difference if all of us here boycotted them or not. It’s meaningless.
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Do you really think this situation is comparable in any way to Jimmy Kimmel? I really don’t. Even if it were, nowhere near that many Apple customers care whether or not the app that targets fascist militias is on the app store or not.
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Jimmy Kimmel made Disney a lot of money. They had to choose between pressure from the US government, and losing a popular source of revenue along with the vast amount of liberals who swore them off. Jimmy Kimmel was not a real institutional threat to the US government. So the US government did not have a very strong incentive to continuously push for him being taken down, and Disney had a lot of incentive to keep him around.
An app that targets fascists makes Apple no money. The US government faces the loss (or rendering ineffective) of their fascist police force. Both sides therefore face a huge amount of pressure to have the app taken down. It would have to be a gigantic part of their profit margin to warrant any pushback from Apple. I’d be very, very surprised to hear that this change is ever overturned through a boycott.
they would have been perfectly fine it was simply that the optics were bad enough to warrant a response
Why do they care about the optics? $$$
A big problem is that people need smartphones for so much of modern life. You can stop watching Disney and your life won’t meaningfully change but it’s really hard to avoid evil smartphone companies. Part of me wants to switch from Apple but what would I go to? Samsung who’s just as bad about right to repair? Google who’s Google? I’m not saying it’s impossible but I’m not going to say that the choice is as easy as cancelling a streaming service.
Fairphone. Right to repair, plus good custom ROM and linux on mobile support.
Useless without passing Google’s Integrity checks.
Two phones.
One for everyday life.
The other for documentation of events, activism, direct action, this app mentioned in the post, and maybe even rebellions.
(actually if you are doing a rebellion, you better use meshtastic or some sort of radios, and remember: do not transmit from home)
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Yeah except I do actually need one for work, paying rent, paying bills etc. It’s a helluva position of privilege to be able to say no to something like that, and that’s coming from someone who doesn’t have a car, which is far less necessary.
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No, we cannot do those things any other way.
Yes, it’s a privilege to be able to simply say no to having a bank account, for one you’d need to not be in paid employment and not on any financial assistance, so basically a NEET and/or like a foreign-born investor, for which you need to be pretty rich.
I would say you’re missing some nuance in these arguments, though.
With a phone people no longer need laptops or full-sized computers and they also get a phone and camera to go along with it. They get a lot of power even just using fairly mundane apps like email, file storage, and a calendar. And then you have access to the internet and all the power that comes with that. I also don’t know why you think phones show ads.
AI, on the other hand, is hot fucking garbage at everything it does. Why anyone uses it I can’t say, it’s so bad and it’s known that it’s actively making people dumber. I don’t touch the stuff and my life has been going just fine.
Your smartphone serves you ads?
A big problem is that people need smartphones for so much of modern life.
Do you though? They’re convenient, for sure, but you can also use a dumbphone and a laptop.
How the fuck would I access my bank then? All banks literally require their apps to access the account or sometimes even open the account, nevermind actually pay for anything or get a debit or credit card.
All banks literally require
In your part of the world…
In most of the world that isn’t 1 country that starts with ‘United States’ and ends with ‘of America’
Yea, just gunna carry my laptop around with me everywhere. And that’s not even talking about all the nonsense on laptops that most people can’t deal with.
…and it happened in a vacuum, just all by itself.
Defeatist subservient take
Every time I hear people talk like that I begin to think they dont understand basic microeconomics.
Yes, as opposed to spending money at another capitalist institution that will inevitably do the same thing, which is somehow not a subservient take.
There are a lot of other ways to apply pressure besides boycotts. I dont think a boycott would ever work against Apple over this.
ah good ol Cynicism. Might as well find yourself a giant pot to live in while they’re still available!
I dont understand why recommending other forms of collective action makes me cynical.
Where was that again?
There are a lot of other ways to apply pressure besides boycotts.
?
It makes literally not a single difference if all of us here boycotted them or not. It’s meaningless.
Just lemmy users? Sure, but you don’t stop with just lemmy users.
These billionaires are making more money than they ever have in human history
Honest to god do you think that money magically appears in their pocket. We can still claw it back. Unionize, boycott, collective action is our strongest pressure against them and IT DOES WORK.
collective action is our strongest pressure against them
Which is why governments fight so much to make it hard.
In my neck of the woods it’s not cool to unionize and there’s no home owners’ association, people only rally for their favorite sports team but don’t bother voting.I guess we get what we deserve.
Every revolution famously begins with everyone giving up completely.
Can you show me where I said to do nothing? Or is boycotting the only form of collective action you’re aware of?
No, but great idea gatekeeping collective action. We surely need less of it.
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“Good thing I got revenge though on Google’s sideloading ban by buying a phone that never allowed it to begin with”
We should make webapps for everything. When done properly they are as fast as native apps, can work on any device and do not require a dev license or account.
Sweet solution
Completely agreed. Nowadays we even have WASM that can run more advanced things, and may even give webapps sandboxed capabilities, and can be run natively on any device with a WASM runtime.
They’re now supported on Firefox on Android, so good news!
Webapps are now supported on Firefox? Holy smokes!
Yup!
I don’t know what that button does but I’m fairly sure it’s not about support for web-apps. Firefox has always supported web-apps, because web-apps are just interactive websites.
It’s the button to pin a PWA to the taskbar by reading the manifest.json
https://www.maketecheasier.com/enable-progressive-web-apps-firefox/
Firefox has always supported web-apps, because web-apps are just interactive websites
That’s from August, when support was added back after the feature being dropped in 2020.
Mozilla has released Firefox 143.0. The update lets users pin web apps to the taskbar, but only on Windows.
About a month [ago], I reported that progressive web apps (PWAs) are available via Firefox’s Labs. Now, the feature is available for everyone on Windows.
This is for the September 16 update.
Progressive Web-apps are a particular kind of web-app. The person you replied to just referred to “webapps”, not this special kind of web-app. Firefox has always supported web-apps.
The nature of progressive web-apps means that you can use them even if the browser doesn’t explicitly support them. All that explicit support does is wrap the web-app in an icon and reduced browser window.
About time!
Thanks for the great news!
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And this is why having 3rd party app stores is important. It’s why it matters that Google is killing side loading, if two fucking companies get to decide what you can do on your phone, we’re in a bad spot technology wise
“Sideloading” is their term, invented to make it sound like something it is not. We should not use this word. The correct word is “installing”.
You don’t “sideload” on Windows when you install software outside of the Microsoft Store™️. There is no real difference or distinction with software on phones, so there is no need for a special word.
“Install” includes installing from an app store no matter how closed down and exlusive. The correct term would be “install from other sources than an app store” which is just clunky. Calling it “sideloading” won’t change that nor will calling it “your mom”. Considering how many corporate-speak terms are in use and how many braindead abbreviations and terms shortened to a word’s last syllable -completely distorting the original meaning- generally are in use, the term “sideloading” is pretty irrelevant. Either lose your mind listening to the bullshit people permanently are emitting or just live with it…
the term “sideloading” is pretty irrelevant.
No, it’s not.
“Installing” is innocuous and easily understandable (by those tech-illiterate dumbfucks that get spoonfed FUD by lobbyists); whereas sideloading is eerily similar to sidestepping and is prone to being interpreted as “working around a safeguard”.Words are not irrelevant.
Right? Anyone who has been paying attention to the healthcare thing in america should know that what you call something influences immensely what people think about something. Just look at the difference in support in polling when they call it the affordable healthcare act OR obamacare.
Yes, yes. Reinvent language and everything will be fine. Just as the woirld is now so much better than before “political correctness”. Idiot.
Right, we should just completely ignore any power words have over people, because we personally don’t like it. Let’s also ignore all sorts of other manipulation tactics cause it’s more convinet to pretend they don’t exist. 🙄
I can see Microsoft moving to the same sort of thinking as well. Apple already made Mac OS users jump through hoops when you want to install something from the internet or even through a third party package manager like homebrew.
Microsoft has been trying this for years already. That eventually led to Valve incresing their efforts in the Linux gaming front and releasing the Steam Deck.
See this
I wonder if Valve would ever get into the Linux Phone market.
But for the platform itself to be open, I wonder how much would have to be recreated.
Does anybody actually enjoy gaming on the phone or just do it because there nothing better to do?
I would perhaps buy a valve phone but I wouldn’t want to game on it which sounds weird.
Unless it was like a switch and had detachable joycons.
Oh same here. I’m hopeful that valve brings us a linux phone, not a gaming phone. I’ve never really gotten into gaming on mobile either.
However, if they DO make a linux phone, I’m sure it will be Steam branded and have all kinds of gaming-specific tweaks.
But again, to me that just sounds like it will have good hardware specs. So not a problem!
Not to defend it, but the first time I encountered the term was when BlackBerry released their Playbook tablet. It ran their bbos10 and they created an android emulator so you could run some android apps. The process of installing the apk into the emulator was called sideloading.
I miss BlackBerry is all I really wanted to say.
Not yet.
Google is not killing sideloading. If the dev is willing to submit to Apple for verification, they’d probably not object to submitting it to Google.
Yes, and then they ban that developer and their apps. It doesn’t matter you can install apps outside of the Play Store, if Google still controls which apps you are allowed to install.
Google is not killing sideloading. If the dev is willing to submit
I see…
Honestly, this thing should just been a PWA. Making this naive app was dumb.
Your phone is fucking you no matter what you do.
“Hurd OS? Isn’t that obsolete?” “Not obsolete. Just… illegal.” ~Rainbows End by Vernor Vinge
We’re in a bad spot technology wise
And the open source movement is such a blind spot to the ‘left’ as well, even though technology freedom is critical if you want to be able to organise any type of resistance in the digital space.
Lemmy users largely get it, obviously, but centre left people will happily let themselves get locked into the Apple/Google walled gardens even though you’re just giving that company a ridiculous amount of power over you.
Right? The collective dismissal of Mastodon from leftist influencers when the Muskening happened was eye opening.
Like, there’s a collaborative, volunteer-based platform right over there. You want mutual aid? Open-source is as mutual-aid as it gets.
But it’s nerd shit.
Yeah it’s unhinged, FOSS is as communism in practice as it gets right now and the left just ignores it, dismissing it as “tech bad” because they can only think in AnPrim brainrot terms most of the time and judge only by aesthetics and make sweeping generalisations about social media that lack any and all imagination.
Because they are controlled opposition.
The only time something not controlled got popular was TikTok and you saw how quickly both parties went to ban it in 2024 after normal people started talking about Gaza genocide in every day conversation. The American Congress worked together to ban it even though they couldn’t agree on anything else.
It went from an Asian platform where Asian people in the West connected with each other outside the mainstream blue pill/red pill false choice and shared culture as well as history that isn’t taught, to “here’s the truth about Jesus” and “the world is flat debate me” after that vote. Now it’s full on MAGA.
Mastodon is harder to control because servers can pop up organically, but I guess Threads was a hedge against that threat.
The only time something not controlled got popular was TikTok
I’m not sure what you mean by controlled, but how I got to know it was as the malware that’s recommended to everyone on the front page of the google play store, and then even factory preinstalled on a lot of them.
It wasn’t doing anything that Facebook wasn’t already doing, but it got banned. The CEO was brought in front of Congress and racially profiled, gave strong answers, and then got banned anyway.
Wonder why?
TikTok hate was a bot farm. The algorithm was always a reflection of the user.
Also, on xitter are all these assholes I don’t care about. I can’t leave that platform. Pathetic!
Most people dont have values because they have values. They hold a perspective just to talk down on others.
Those same people are also still using Twitter or Instagram or TikTok.
People will never understand intricacies like that. On the other hand, the big tech corps do. We are doomed
Yeah. And to think, it’s a fairly small amount of nuance - it’s very basic and intuitive and information about it is literally everywhere. We are hopeless when it comes to far more complex and nuanced social issues we face like rehabilitation or ethnocentrism or trans athletes or the what have you.
People seem to think socialism and any progress is like “be nice to each other” or some stupid aestheticism about “empathy”.
There’s basically no way to have a conversation with them most of the time, they are so far gone and their fully formed thoughts seem more like inaccurate shorthands, it’s like trying to explain astrodynamics to a dog when it’s actively trying not to understand them.
Normies are the death of us all.
I originally got introduced to sociallist idiology through Richard Stallman’s speaches. I know he had some, uhh… “interesting” things to say about Epstein’s victims (which I believe he has since redacted), but his speaches are absolutely still worth listening to just for the content alone.
Yeah, very disappointed by RMS’ creepiness (the Epstein stuff isn’t the only thing), but he was 100% right about software freedom.
Redacted or recanted? One of these is definitely preferable to the other in this context.
Recanted is the word I was thinking of.
Yeah, people should have listened to the people warning of privacy concerns with online services. Now that your data is valuable, companies will do anything to extract it from you.
Stop using those products, de-Google, install Linux, use self-hosted solutions.
It will take some effort to switch. You get to decide how much effort you’re willing to expend in order to not sacrifice all of your privacy and control of your digital lives.
Just technology wise? I think it’s a little deeper than just technology unfortunately
Oh yeah, of course, but it feels like it’s never part of the conversation, even among people whose opinions I respect and are, for example, super critical of AI and talking about enshittification and other issues in the online sphere, they never seem to take the step to check out Linux, or get off Twitter or whatever.
We rapidly need to switch Linux Mobile. PostmarketOS and Mobian are the two most promising projects, and I would highly recommend anyone reading this to donate to them if you have the means.
Both projects directly use your donations to hire developers to build and polish the critical essentials to get this alternative viable as a daily driver.
While I full heartily agree with you, I’m pessimistic you will ever reach enough people with these alternatives. Even on privacy forums you hear people fervently defending how banking apps are mandatory. Those will never run on anything that isn’t locked down. The eID proposal for the EU is also dependent on Android and iOS.
It doesn’t necessarily need to achieve mass adoption, it just needs to get to a ‘good enough’ point to make it viable for those who are willing or desperate to get away from big tech.
Linux still has plenty of people giving reasons why they won’t switch, but it’s now finally viable for many, including myself. I just want mobile Linux to get to that point too, even if there’s still rough edges.
how banking apps are mandatory.
This i don’t get, i’d rather use home-banking from my home PC.
Yes but you can’t motherfucker, don’t you understand that? In most of the world you have to use the app, you CANNOT use online banking without the bank’s app on your phone, you have no sign-in details apart from the email and the bank app, it is the only way to sign in and you sign in via 2FA inside their app and authorize transactions exclusively via that, and no you can’t use Google authenticator or whatever, it’s a “tap to allow sign on” type 2FA and the only kind supported.
There is no “home banking”, and you are not even allowed to enter a physical bank location on the high street without being intercepted by a ghoul telling you to use the app or fuck off, you cannot call the bank because they have no public number, you do everything via the app or you cannot do anything at all.
That’s why even people without access to drinking water have the latest fucking smartphones, they’re a prerequisite and there are no alternatives.
Most of the time you don’t even have a bank card, just the bank card details in the bank app on your phone that are automatically added to Google Pay, and you use that because near everything is cashless and NFC.
Soon across EU and UK your very ID will be stored on your phone.
I love how you are getting downvoted for getting frustrated with people who can’t see beyond their own nose.
I fully agree with you, these people just don’t want to admit some of us don’t have the privilege of choosing since all the options end up on forcing a banking app one way or another.
Because it is a fucking privilege at this point.I don’t need to use an app to manage my bank account.
Sounds like you people have shitty banks. Maybe it’s time to switch?
Sure, come to México and tell me which local bank allows me to not use an app at all and I’ll switch
A lot of banks require their personal apps as 2FA to access your account. I would never agree to that.
No doubt. I’ve gotten to the point where I have like 6 apps on my phone and it’s in lockdown mode on iOS. And I’d be on grapheneOS if I wasn’t required to use iOS for work.
Can you have your job pay for an iPhone while you have a different personal phone? I’m a big fan of keeping a work device that’s separate from a personal device.
I probably could, but I’m also a recovering drug addict and my partner is pretty hesitant about a second device as it’s another way to hide things. However I’m the head of the MDM team so I’m not really nervous about what the company can see
I thought you were head of the MDMA team for a second and thought that could be rough as a recovering drug addict
Definitely got the experience required for the job
Oddly I’ve only tried MDMA a few times and it never really worked. There’s some anecdotal evidence that it doesn’t work for those with bipolar which I do have, that might be the one drug I could be in charge of with no temptation actually
I do this. Highly recommended.
If people were more aware of how to make and install mobile web apps it would be less of a problem.
At least on the iPhone you can still add a site to your screen that can behave a lot like an app, including camera access, location services, and even gyro. And it’s just a website like most “apps” are.
Most people don’t care about any of that. Firefox with AdBlock to surfe YouTube without ads? Nah, they want the app, which is basically the same, but at least they can’t block ads. I stopped trying to understand
Yeah, me too.
apple and the us government and ice can all suck a dick
I don’t understand why society accepted that the hardware maker gets to decide what software you run.
That’d be like your car deciding which roads you can take, or your blender deciding you’re not allowed to use strawberries in your smoothie.
Are you nuts? Why the fuck would your phone decide which apps you can run?
Agreed, too many people defend the App Store monopoly.
Is it that non tech people have a hard time understanding this? Or is it just all the corporate lobbying bribes?
I’ll catch the flames and say “religious reasons”.
There was a person on a Lemmy.zip community that was arguing in favour of a lockdown approach.
Maybe our phones are their f’in phones too
Apple welding their phones to their own store, exclusively, is just like paying workers with scrip instead of dollars. This used to be a common practice for capitalists. The scrip is spendable only in the company store.
We have to stop all such anticompetitive practices.
Just a reminder, to stop the practice of getting paid in scrip the American workers had to take up arms and shoot some people. Look up Battle of Blair Mountain. It’s not like the capitalists stopped the practice just because it was unpopular, lol. Nor did the anticompetitive practice of paying wages in scrip stop because people called their senators and wrote angry letters.
That’d be like your car deciding which roads you can take,
It’s a feature for the next release, don’t worry.
And for what reason do you not think we’re headed in that direction?
The scumbags got a headstart on setting the standard for phone users so the freedom that was given to PC users never happens again.
It worked and everyone with an iphone is an actual moron.
I get the outrage, I really do, but the app broke many privacy rights for users and also the app did technically break ToS by definition being a “doxxing” app.
Regardless, there are websites out there that do it far better than the app, and have universal access Apple and Android devices, which makes sense, because the developer of ICEBlock made it exclusive to Apple, and hispanic communities are overwhelmingly Android users.
Who could have seen this coming from the company whose CEO gifted Trump a literal gold plaque in celebration of his reelection?
Hey, you know nothing about the absurd pressure billionaire CEO’s are unde/sr
Apps are just browsers that can only visit one website. Who cares about them?
And websites are just little programs you can download at will, so who cares about them?
A lot of websites have server side programs taht are never downloaded by the client. So there is a pretty big difference there. Basically if you want a subversive anti-government “app” you really want a website, not an app.
Wait, where are you seeing a difference between that and how an app functions? Right now it feels like you’re abstracting a bit too far in order to make a point, but I’m (genuinely) deeply curious what you mean.
Most apps are a packaged browser that makes proprietary API calls over https. However there is nothing proprietary or valuable in the app itself, except possibly some key material for authentication of the app with the back-end.
Then depending on the user making various requests a middle-ware program will interact with the backend database and retrieve the results back to the user. The database is the valuable part and other then the specific query the user is making, nothing else is can be retrieved by the user. Normally the middle ware isn’t even downloadable either.
That’s how everything (edit: that doesn’t benefit from locally hosted resources, which have exceptions for things like gaming where rapid data access is more important than structural niceties) works, its a design paradigm called MVVM. Host the database, shift processing to the user’s hardware (excepting hardware dependent tasks like LLMs or other compute heavy tasks). Websites, apps, even firmware – essentially anything that makes an API call in some way uses this basic structure. Even entirely local applications do it this way (albeit internally).
Yes. Hence my initial claim that apps are worthless, and shouldn’t be used if you can use a website instead. So the whole idea of Apple or Android being able to remove the “iceblock” app, shows that the app was ill-conceived to begin with. Or possibly it was even a honey-pot since apps do have much greater access to the parent device then a website.
since apps do have much greater access to the parent device then a website
I’m not disagreeing at all that this should have had a website as a backup, but you yourself are making some really good points about how apps aren’t the same thing as websites and the benefits to using an app in this situation. Leveraging user hardware without the intermediate layer of a brower’s sandbox is good for performance and makes a site much more robust in the face of things like DDOS, and having locally-hosted resources with which the user can interact without requiring an active TCP connection (because for example: ICE has geoblocked connectivity at one of their “enforcement actions” - but you can still document what’s happening and the app will automatically-and-without-user-interaction upload what you’ve given it once connectivity is restored) is an incredibly important feature.
Offline websites, while potentially able to exhibit similar behavior, rely on extremely hacky workarounds and cached data to be able to do it - and an app is a much less volatile way to store that data than relying on your browser’s cache reintegration (which will often be dumped if you’re hit with bad a DHCP config).
I think your spirit is in the right place, but you’re missing enough of the technical nuance that it’s really undermining your ability to convincingly make your point. And again, I 100% agree that not having alternative access to this service is a critical loss.
Everything is objectionable.
Are we ready to admit that giving 3 companies the ability to decide what everyone can and can’t execute on their devices is a massive international problem? This is probably the greatest threat to every country in the world, and the people of the US.
Apple CEO Tim Cook recently gave Trump a 24 carat gold bribe.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/08/07/tim-cook-trump-gift/85555805007/
Oh no
Was likely a honeypot the whole time…
I miss my Blackberry Curve. ☹️
Google’s sideloading restrictions seems almost like its perfectly timed… 👀
Anyways, Google can gargle my:
google also recently removed thier similar anti-ice app.
How to choose between this and GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, etc? I feel ready for the switch too.
Edit: Plus is it possible to get banking apps and Google Wallet to still work (easily) in these Android-based alternatives?
Was this ever even available to non-US accounts? Was there ever an explanation for why it was georestricted?
