Is anyone actually surprised by this?
DeepSeek does the same things that OpenAI does, but it’s a foreign actors so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRy!
Nope you can’t run chatgpt locally.
Wait until they hear what data Instagram/Meta collects during use!
But they’re a US company so it’s ok.
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data? Selling it? If you’re not a Chinese National, at least you don’t fall under their jurisdiction.
If you’re a U.S. citizen, with all the tech oligarchs cozying up to the current administration, I’d be a lot more concerned with Facebook/Twitter/Etc collecting your data.
The CCP is significantly more oppressive, gives zero shits about human rights or trademarks or really anyone at all. The US at least pretends to care.
that’s pure ideology.
Based on what? The US imprisons more people, kills more people, tortures more people. The only way to argue that China is more oppressive is basically to start with the assumption they are and then work backwards to justify it.
I listed a handful of reasons above, of which no one has denied or refuted. Just downvoted.
Actually you didn’t. You listed a bunch of accusations against China (which were refuted, you just ignored that), but you didn’t even try to explain how that’s more oppressive than the USA. Even if all your accusations were true, the US is still more oppressive.
I see you are sticking with the pack here and going with generic denial and ignoring my arguments rather than actually refuting them.
now we’ve got another refutopolis warrior.
What does that even mean?
The US is in the process of deporting all its migrants and threatening invasions on half the world.
I get that gringos don’t want to own up to their complicity by inaction but you oughta stop pontificating about how other governments are worse. Unless they’re called Israel, they weren’t before and they sure as fuck aren’t now.
Get fucked, racist.
Lmaooo hurting gringos feelings is being racist? Y’all have had concentration camps for longer than you’ve been without them, you know their fucking addresses and they’re still there.
Do forgive me for throwing y’all’s opinions on racism in the dustbin.
You cannot be a serious leftist and pretend to be offended by a little “anti-white” rhetoric.
That doesn’t affect people not in china or not bordering china.
Bro you can stop that narrative. The truth is out now.
The truth is out now.
What truth? Who talks like this and thinks it means something?
For the past week the people of China and the United States, as well as other countries have been comparing notes. Debunking propaganda on both sides. Realizing that much of what we’ve all been told for years/decades, has been lies.
I’m ootl. What debunks have come out?
…which truth came out? They don’t have CCP officials required by law to work at tech companies and disclose any and all data they acquire? They’re not using Uyghur slaves in their factories? They’re not trying to literally erase Taiwan off the maps? They’re not still censoring information about their horrific pasts? They’re not targeting, retaliating against and kidnapping protestors domestic and abroad? They’re not censoring virtually every US social website entirely from the entire country? Please bring me up to speed.
I’m not here to defend the Chinese government or anything, but there is an argument to be made that the US has an equivalency to each one of these things.
CCP officials at tech companies - NSA backdoors
Uyghur slaves - Prison labor aka war on drugs
Taiwan - Gaza/Literally any “3rd world” nation with oil
Censorship - Right wing media empires/red state bills targeted to downplay US atrocities taught in schools
Retaliation against protestors - Police brutality Social media censorship - Oligarchs owned social media
I think a lot of people are less falling for Chinese propaganda and more overcoming US propaganda.
If you think any of those are remotely the same, you’re simply delusional.
With the caveat that we have tons of actual evidence for the US equivalent, whereas the claims that China does those things are usually “We absolutely swear they do bro” from the people who swore Hamas was raping babies or whatever.
E: any of you downvoters, feel free to correct me, I’d love to be wrong.
You throw a bunch of claims with zero source and wants to be taken seriously. At least give us the bare minimum before just spewing this much US State Department propaganda.
That being said, I will address some of your points, since someone else might stumble upon this and need an actual answer.
They don’t have CCP officials required by law to work at tech companies and disclose any and all data they acquire?
Keeping a close look on the companies on their country and keeping them on a short leash is good actually. China is not a capitalist hellhole like the US or most of the world, it is a socialist state where the rich does not control the government. Keeping them in check is the right thing to do given their current development level of socialism.
They’re not using Uyghur slaves in their factories?
That’s a new one, so far I have only heard about how they are being genocided. Which you can debunk with a little bit of research: Arab League’s visit to Xinjiang rejects Western accusations of ethnic genocide, religious persecution.
They’re not trying to literally erase Taiwan off the maps?
LMAO, no. Taiwan is part of China, why would China want to erase part of itself off the map? Even the US agrees. The only thing China wants is proper reunification with Taiwan.
They’re not still censoring information about their horrific pasts?
What “horrific past”? Be specific, this vague stance achieves nothing. If you’re talking about Tiananmen Square, here’s a good video about that: The Tiananmen Square “Massacre” Never Happened.
They’re not targeting, retaliating against and kidnapping protestors domestic and abroad?
Again, provide a damn source, I have no idea of what you’re talking about and it is something I never saw anyone claim before.
What I can do tho is bring into attention the names of a few people like Huey P. Newton being killed by the US government and Snowden having to seek asylum abroad after blowing the whistle on the US surveillance state for the world to see. And if that’s not enough, how about Pro-Palestinian protesters clash with US police on second night of DNC and New Report Details How Pro-Palestinian Protests Are Suppressed in Democratic Countries.
They’re not censoring virtually every US social website entirely from the entire country?
No they are not, Microsoft operates in China. Not only that, but they do not explicitly want to simply ban US sites on there, it’s a simple matter of national sovereignty where companies like Facebook and Google refuse to abide by Chinese law, so China simply developed all their tools in-house. Not only that, but Chinese citizens have access to VPNs and can easily access websites abroad that are not usually allowed in China.
Meanwhile the US banned Huawei and tried to ban TikTok when it became apparent they could not control it and that the people were seeing the US for what it truly is, a genocidal state funding Israel in it’s attempt to genocide the Palestinian people.
The last link I posted is a proxy on 12ft.io since The Intercept won’t allow to see the page without registering.
You make a compelling argument.
’d love to be wrong.
No you wouldn’t. If you were, you’d have listen to the many people that probably have corrected you on all those State Department talking points
That’s never happened. And being that you haven’t either, I think it’s a fair guess that it won’t anytime soon.
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data?
Probably mapping out the extended support networks of democratic activists in Taiwan to prepare to throw them in jail after a forcible military takeover.
So democratic activists in Taiwan have extensive networks in the US?
I mean, you said it.
Extensive networks with their close ally? My pearls must be clutched!!
Networks with a foreign actor undermining national sovereignty, which financed several massacres in your country
My country? Not sure what you’re talking about but I know that Taiwan deserves sovereignty. You don’t? Surely you’re not pro imperialism…
Strawmanning the open source federated social media enthusiast crowd as unaware fans of meta?
As a US citizen, I support some things that help rich people in the US win when competing with rich people in China.
As a chauvinist
Ftfy
This makes me sad, that we can’t engage in civil discussion about this. Why did you assume and not ask questions? Be curious, not judgmental.
To me it’s a question of laws. The laws of the U.S. at least somewhat constrain the people of my own country, and can prevent them from working against their own citizens. Like me.
Please be kind when replying.
Fuck civility, its a tool of oppression
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I’m not American so they are indeed a foreign actor.
but it’s a foreign actor so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRrRey!
I love that people think this is a solid own. Lest we forget Hong Kong, or an impending hot war in Taiwan or building out extradition systems with an expanding network of countries to forcibly repatriate and torture dissidents and human rights lawyers.
You used to not have to explain why authoritarianism was bad.
It used to not be necessary because democracies used to have moral authority but since the revelations of Manning and Snowden non-Americans see no difference between giving our data to the USA or to China or any other. We also know from the reaction to the war in Ukraine and Gaza that human rights claims are only sometimes used.
or an impending hot war in Taiwan
When you can’t even find things that China actually has done to complain about, so you have to start complaining about things they haven’t done.
Anti terrorism is good, actually. I don’t support people kicking seniors for speaking mandarin to try to bully a government into not prosecuting murderers in the mainland, which was the reason the protests happened (that and Washington money)
That sinophobia isn’t going to stoke itself!
Pathetic
Western authorities have been harvesting data for a few decades from social media so any complaint that singles out Chinese apps doing the same is obviously rooted in sinophobia.
The fact you think my joking about racists doing that is pathetic shows which side of that assertion you fall.
My content on here speaks for it self… Dear
rAyCIsM 🤡
This is probably only a problem with the online version. In contrast to google and openAI they, like meta, let you download the model and run it offline, where they can’t access any of this data I presume.
I’ve been running it locally using ollama, works completely offline, no keystroke data for anyone!
Yeah I scan logs and so far nothing… I still don’t trust them but I can’t tell shit either
Just use little snitch, open snitch or simple wall depending on your operating system and block the outbound connection if one ever occurs
portmaster?
I heard about little snitch, is there any benefit to it v portmaster in your opinion, off the cuff type thing?
Oh little snitch was just what I used when macOS was my main operating system. When I switched to windows I started using simple wall and I just recently was poking around for a Linux solution and I found open snitch
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Anyone using DeepSeek as a service the same way proprietary LLMs like ChatGPT are used is missing the point. The game-changer isn’t that the Chinese company DeepSeek can compete with OpenAI and its ilk as an AI service provider—it’s that now any organization with a few million dollars to train and host their own model can compete with OpenAI.
I’d like to look into that, how can I train an existing model further?
I’m only playing around with ollama, but like to do a bit more - mostly just to fulfill my needs to understand things - but have no idea where to start
You’re going to have to learn python.
Here’s a good overview: https://huggingface.co/docs/transformers/training
Python is not a problem
SW Dev is my job. Just never had real contact with AI before, besides playing around a bit.Thank you very much for the link!!
Edit: thank you very much again, that was pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
Don’t know how I missed to checkout huggingface. Thought of it always just as a github for models and didn’t bother checking for docs…
But that’s a great intro with simple tools/tutorials to get a grip on it, thanks!
On-prem vs. Cloud, basically. On-prem just magically got cheaper.
Onprem has always been cheaper. Cloud compute was the most successful marketing campaign I can think of.
Or open source groups can make a fully open repro of it: https://github.com/huggingface/open-r1
you gotta think deep before you deep seek!
Your devices keyboard app has been collecting all of your keystrokes.
Billions of folk’s keyboards are connected to the internet and the vast majority of them have no idea. It’s absolutely ludicrous that we’ve gotten to this stage with surveillance capitalism. Internet-connected keyboards are malware, plain and simple.
Sure, but its open source and doesn’t upload it anywhere. Also doesn’t have internet permission
Unrelated but yesterday I saw a post where the person was mocking those concerned by the chinese getting their data, saying things like “why would they care” and some people sarcastically saying they wouldn’t understand the data because “it was in another language”. Were those people right or not?
I swear people do not understand how the internet works.
Anything you use on a remote server is going to be seen to some degree. They may or may not keep track of you, but you can’t be surprised if they are. If you run the model locally, there is no indication it is sending anything anywhere. It runs using the same open source LLM tools that run all the other models you can run locally.
This is very much like someone doing surprised pikachu when they find out that facebook saves all the photos they upload to facebook or that gmail can read your email.
The telephone company knows your phone number!
“We store the information we collect in secure servers located in the People’s Republic of China”
Now you Americans know how we Europeans feel when Google, Amazon and Facebook store our information on American servers. Hint: The protective wall between Chinese servers and their government are about as good as the one between American servers and their government - at least for non-US citizens. The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
What did he do? I know Trump does not like the GDPR, but did he sign something affecting it last week?
He killed the EU-US Data Privacy Framework. Theoretically, no company is allowed to transfer data of European citizens to US-based servers anymore. Sadly, Ursula von der Leyen is lacking the balls to act on this.
Thanks, I did not know. I think you are referring to this: https://www.freevacy.com/news/noyb/trumps-actions-to-dismantle-pclob-threatens-eu-us-data-transfers/6088
To be completely honest… as an European I would be happy if they actually did make it so that no EU-US data transfer were allowed… we need to stop depending on all these US-based services… but like you said, they probably don’t have the balls to pull the plug. Which makes me wonder if that board was actually really any protection at all for privacy or it had always been an empty shell used as an excuse on both sides just to keep up appearances and maintain the plug on.
I honestly think this could be a win for us. Worst case scenario, nothing really changes but some masks fall off and at least some people would stop acting under false pretense.
Everyone must ask to see Xi jing jing ping pong nudes! But without mentioning Xi or nudes.
That would be a great way of poisoning their plans.
Yes, that is how these generative AI imementations work.
no sh*t! now tell me, not that it’s correct, but what does the chinese intelligence apparatus can do to me vs. what the u.s. intelligence apparatus (which has been collecting intelligence about me since i’m alive) can do to me?
They both can and frequently do influence the information you are exposed to on social media to influence your decision making. Not you specifically, unless you someone very important, but your demographic in a broader sence. The more data they have on you, the more effective this process is.
and that’s what superpowers do, but living in a third world country i’m yet to see the chinese putsch us as the u.s. did during the cold war and beyond, with all due consequences. sorry about my lack of goodwill towards the department of state.
The funny thing is that I would realistically only care about, for example, the Russian government collecting my data if their oligarchy collaborated with my government’s oligarchy against my and the population’s interest (which I guess in this case is significantly more likely than China)
They both can and frequently do influence the information you are exposed to on social media to influence your decision making.
You know what they say about assertions made without evidence.
As a queer woman in the US, I currently care infinitely more what the US gov and companies track about me than what China does.
I trust DeepSeek Open Source if it allows me to copy and review it. I don’t trust
OpenAI like ChatGPT.Is Deepseek Open Source?
Hugging Face researchers are trying to build a more open version of DeepSeek’s AI ‘reasoning’ model
Hugging Face head of research Leandro von Werra and several company engineers have launched Open-R1, a project that seeks to build a duplicate of R1 and open source all of its components, including the data used to train it.
The engineers said they were compelled to act by DeepSeek’s “black box” release philosophy. Technically, R1 is “open” in that the model is permissively licensed, which means it can be deployed largely without restrictions. However, R1 isn’t “open source” by the widely accepted definition because some of the tools used to build it are shrouded in mystery. Like many high-flying AI companies, DeepSeek is loathe to reveal its secret sauce.
The runner is open source, and that’s what matter in this discussion. If you host the model on your own servers, you can ensure that no corporation (american or Chinese) has access to your data. Access to the training code and data is irrelevant here.
The guys at HF (and many others) appear to have a different understanding of Open Source.
As the Open Source AI definition says, among others:
Data Information: Sufficiently detailed information about the data used to train the system so that a skilled person can build a substantially equivalent system. Data Information shall be made available under OSI-approved terms.
- In particular, this must include: (1) the complete description of all data used for training, including (if used) of unshareable data, disclosing the provenance of the data, its scope and characteristics, how the data was obtained and selected, the labeling procedures, and data processing and filtering methodologies; (2) a listing of all publicly available training data and where to obtain it; and (3) a listing of all training data obtainable from third parties and where to obtain it, including for fee.
Code: The complete source code used to train and run the system. The Code shall represent the full specification of how the data was processed and filtered, and how the training was done. Code shall be made available under OSI-approved licenses.
- For example, if used, this must include code used for processing and filtering data, code used for training including arguments and settings used, validation and testing, supporting libraries like tokenizers and hyperparameters search code, inference code, and model architecture.
Parameters: The model parameters, such as weights or other configuration settings. Parameters shall be made available under OSI-approved terms.
- The licensing or other terms applied to these elements and to any combination thereof may contain conditions that require any modified version to be released under the same terms as the original.
These three components -data, code, parameter- shall be released under the same condition.
This make the news only because it’s going to chinese servers. Didn’t see anything like that about ChatGPT or the one made by Google.
Chinese company does what American companies have done for 25+ years now!
Is it time for REAL data privacy laws or are we just gonna keep playing whack-a-mole with Chinese tech companies that get us nowhere?
Our data’s just too valuable for these parasites. Data privacy laws may eventually pass to compel software companies to store everything in US servers only.
Excellent Point. If that’s the case though, then wouldn’t other countries follow suit which still limits big tech’s reach and makes them less profitable and less powerful? Idk. Guess we’ll see how it plays out. Either way, I’m staying as far from those ecosystems as possible to at least try to mitigate some of what they do. I’ll never be totally successful, genie is put of the bottle, but we can at least attempt.
No, this is just propaganda
