Hopefully this trade war doesn’t devolve into an actual war…
Possibly why he decided not to tax energy.
10% instead of 25% on the US side.
Talk about working to lower prices 🤥
If it were an actual shooting war, Canada would have to surrender within days. Virtually the entire population lives within a two hour drive of the border, and the US military is orders of magnitude bigger than the Canadian military.
But, while the US could easily conquer Canada militarily, the guerilla war would be another matter.
The US/Canadian border is the longest land border in the world. The US could do nothing to stop Canadians from entering the US. And, once Canadians were inside the US, there’s no way to tell a Canadian from an American. South Park lied, not all Canadians have floppy heads. Once inside the US, guns are freely available to everybody. Plus, the market is so open, it’s easy to get what you need to make bombs.
So, imagine the “Troubles” in Northern Ireland, but spread out throughout the entire US. The American psyche is not prepared for that. Americans have been in all kinds of wars, but the last time Americans had a war on home soil was the US Civil War. Just look at the overreaction to a mere 3000 people dying on September 11th. Decades later and the ripples are still being felt.
And, that’s not even considering that probably more than half the US wouldn’t support an attack on Canada, and a significant fraction would help Canadians with sabotage and other guerilla activities.
As chaotic and norms-breaking as Trump is, I have to think someone would stop him before he actually went into a shooting war with Canada.
Yup. Taking territory is one thing. Holding it is another.
Begun, the Bullshit Wars have.
This time, they’ll call it Order 1488.
As an American, I don’t see a choice. This is a trade war, shots were fired. I hope it’s a short war.
These trade wars are seldom short, they are easy to start but hard to stop. Look up Chicken Tax (started in 1960s)
All we need to look up is the fact that Biden kept a lot of Trump’s tariffs. That’s not a slander on Biden, just fact. Most people don’t understand that you can’t just shock entire industries overnight with knee jerk trade policies.
Here are some numbers to consider.
The US sold $441 billion worth of goods and services to Canada in 2024.
Canada sold $482 billion worth of goods and services to the US in 2024.
The US has a populating of 334.9 million people.
Canada has a population of 40.1 million people.
Per capita, every American man, woman, and child spent $1,316.81 on Canadian goods and services.
Candians spent $12,019. 95 on American good and services.
Who isn’t pulling their weight in this trading relationship?
This isn’t about illegal immigration and it isn’t about the 20 lbs of fentanyl that tried to cross the border from Canada.
This is about the billionaire class raising taxes on the poor and raising prices for Americans.
This is hurting the wealthy also since it jacks up costs on businesses. I wonder what the conversations he must be having with his donors must be. Maybe he is picking favored businesses.
On the topic of fentanyl, if I may be so bold as to ask, do that many Americans genuinely give a shit about any fentanyl coming across any of our borders? I suppose those who do drugs that are likely to be cut with fentanyl, but as an American whose drug use consists of at most alcohol and legal weed, fentanyl isn’t something I’m particularly worried about. I’m not saying it’s not destructive or dangerous, but it’s not something I ever feel worried about. Maybe I’m just too poor to be exposed to people who do the kind of drugs that get laced with fentanyl, or maybe I’m lacking more empathy than I realize, but while I’ve seen sad examples of people whose lives have been destroyed by opiates and fentanyl in news programs and documentaries, I also have a hard time not seeing the fear of Fentanyl as anything more than wealthy parents like Trump, who know their kids are doing cocaine or other drugs, worried that their kids (like Don Jr) will accidentally OD on some laced drugs, which again, maybe it’s an empathy problem on my part, but maybe if you aren’t smart enough to test your drugs maybe you shouldn’t be doing them. I don’t know, it just seems like dhe dumbest issue to tank the whole economy over (unless that was the goal all along, and you just want a boogeyman-scapegoat for an excuse). It’s not that I even really care about “the economy” that much either, but I do care about ordinary people being able to afford housing and food.
Never believe Trump’s stated reasons for doing something, because Trump is notorious for being a pathological liar. Fentanyl doesn’t have the slightest thing at all to do with Traitorapist Trump’s new tariffs. The amount of fentanyl coming from Canada is almost zero. In his first term, Trump told a documented 20-25 lies per day 7 days per week. The fentanyl thing is just part of his quota of 25 lies for that day. The best way to understand Trump is that he literally thinks dishonesty is a virtue and honesty is a vice.
Never take him literally.
Always take him seriously.
If there wasn’t such a huge demand for drugs in the US they wouldn’t smuggle them in. They will continue to be smuggled in regardless of any trade war. I guess he plans on keeping them going forever.
Who isn’t pulling their weight in this trading relationship?
Not how that works. Even with a “trade deficit”, a trade relationship must have an element of bilaterality. You’re exchanging something for something. The exception would be when one side militarily has their boot on the other side, i.e., sweatshop/imperialist relations. Which the U.S./Canada relationship is not exactly a poster child of.
Idk why you are being downvoted, that seems about right.
A purchase of goods only equates to exploitation in the head of Trump, the contents of which, despite his protectionist and nationalistic tendencies, seem to resemble swiss cheese more and more with each passing year. So I wouldn’t adopt his rhetoric.
Wouldn’t a subsidy or tax incentive for things produced domestically be a more beneficial way to combat tariffs?
How so? These would increase demand for things produced in Canada, not really harm America. These are retaliatory tariffs, so the latter is the point here.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but for things that are made in both Canada and the US, if you increase demand for the version made in Canada, your country benefits, while hurting the US, since less is sold, so less money earned. Citizens are the ones paying tariffs anyway
It’s like “ok fine, we won’t buy shit off eachother”
Last I checked US has a bunch of stuff they try to sell.
It’s gonna get nasty.
Personnaly I would put a mirror tarrif. Tax the stuff going out to USA. Canadian economy will slow down, don’t make life more expensive for Canadians. And that way Americans might notice it faster if they pay 50 percent more.
The problem here, specifically, is that once imported items go up in price, there needs to be regulations that blocks local manufacturers from just upping their prices to match. Otherwise the imported items are still a viable purchase and tariffs will not work as a counter measure.
How are you going to have a trade war with a superpower? it’s just a losing battle and it will hurt regular Canadians the most.
And it’s a little telling that China, of all countries, did nothing.
He tariffs his former allies at 25%, and China at 10% because Tik Tok helped him. Absolute univariate thinking…
*soon to be former superpower
So from the conservative viewpoint, what is the rationale for the tariffs? Are people really supposed to believe it has something to do with fentanyl? Like do conservatives actually believe that or is there some other narrative besides Donald Trump is looking to flex his power?
Yeah I’m confused because this is going to ruin American billionaires. Doesn’t maga worship billionaires?
If you have the money to ride it out you can buy the country for pennies on the dollar.
I had to chuckle about this comment. I said that same thing in a rant to family and friends last night including using the words “for pennies on the dollar”
For the most part it’s not getting the kind of attention you might expect, they are seeing this as all “part of the plan” and celebrating their great trade-warrior leader punishing the “bad guys” and the white house has deliberately withheld a LOT of the information about what’s going on. Most of the breaking stories we’ve gotten have been from foreign press. We didn’t even hear the tariff schedule until fucking France media issued stories.
There is not going to be the satisfaction we all hope for, not until there’s literally a new dust-bowl as we get ravaged by a new great depression, which as bad as it could be, might be our only hope for a more balanced political system going forward. I hate that these clowns have made me into an accelerationist but here are.
Back in 1890, there was no income tax. The federal government was funded through tariffs. With the upcoming rewrite of the tax code, the current administration needs new revenue, and trariffs are one of the few the president cab levy unilaterally.
Tariffs are essentially a shitty sales tax. I’ve read it described as a way to switch the US federal funding from I come tax to a hidden sales tax.
The revenues will also be much much lower, which is why they need to eliminate every federal bureau.
It’s not conservatism, it’s fascism. The strongman says jump and those loyal to him say “how high?” even when he’s being stupid. There is no analysis of Trump’s actions or why people go along with it beyond that.
He’s talking about Canada being 51st state. So not sure if he wants to just annex Canada.
or is there some other narrative
I believe a couple different things
a) he’s intentionally weakening the US economy to both weaken establishment institutions and spread mass discontent. he wants people nice and angry and fearful for the future. so when he takes more extreme actions later on, it doesn’t seem as bad. also he’s probably preparing for some sort of riot movement that includes political violence in the next couple years. as the establishment gets weaker, he’ll be in a better position to essentially ignore them. so for example Supreme Court says something unconstitutional? Maybe he just ignores it and enforces his will regardless
b) in the near future we may see a serious decoupling of the US economy from the world. maybe it’s due a planned war or some other circumstance and this is in preparation for that. tariffs tend to cut off the economy from the outside world. it’ll hurt less later on if we do some of it now
We are actually seeing the us get destroyed by a mad king. Never let conservatives forget that they ushered in a man who intentionally tried to destroy their country.
Yes, yes, but “Daddy’s home, you guys! And he has his belt off! Yah-fucking-hoooooo! 'merica gunna be so gud noaw! Egg prices? What egg prices? Everything else is even more expensive, too, but we were for low prices before we were AGAINST them!”
This gives stupid people a real chubby, so we should all have to suffer for their stupid feels.
I plan to never let conservatives forget that the Trumpflation starting up was created by Traitorapist Trump.
You could argue that in 2016, some conservatives voted based on promises of economic growth, job creation, or an ‘outsider’ shaking up the system. But at this point, it’s clear that a significant portion of the movement isn’t just tolerating the consequences—they’re actively embracing them.
Right-wing media outlets like Fox News are already preparing their audience for economic hardship, not by criticizing the policies causing it, but by framing it as a necessary sacrifice to achieve ideological goals—like restricting immigration. That tells us this isn’t about economic prosperity or stability; it’s about prioritizing certain cultural and political victories, even if it means making life harder for everyone.
This isn’t just one politician’s recklessness; it’s a broader shift in conservative politics. There’s a growing acceptance of government dysfunction, economic decline, and even authoritarian tactics—as long as it’s seen as benefiting their side. That’s what makes this moment different from 2016. It’s not just that a ‘mad king’ is at the helm; it’s that a large segment of his supporters and media ecosystem are celebrating the chaos, rather than trying to stop it.
Not just the Conservatives; there’s always a cohort of Democrats willing to side with Republicans to make sure the worst ideas make it across the finish line.
Dema haven’t been “on our side” for decades. They’re too busy milking the corporate teat.
Oh, look, “both sides bad”, the reason we’re all here.
They are both bad and have a massive overlap. But yes one party is clearly better and at least tries to help however flawed it may be.
Still both Dems and Republicans are ruled by the elite and the interests of the oligarchy. That’s clear and part of the problem. Until we change how our elections work though it’s in everyone’s best interest to vote for the democratic party
Still both Dems and Republicans are ruled by the elite and the interests of the oligarchy.
Weird that the last 3 Dem presidents raised taxes on the wealthy and/or corporations. Didn’t know that the oligarchy was interested in that.
Worth noting that, AFAICT, they never restore the tax rate to what it was before the preceding Republican’s tax breaks. It’s always a huge step back and a half step forward.
Worth noting that, AFAICT, they never restore the tax rate to what it was before the preceding Republican’s tax breaks.
Biden unfortunately did not. But Obama restored the highest tax bracket back to what it was previously. Clinton actually went above and beyond that and made it higher that it was in 1987. But I want to see the top rate rolled back at least to the 1986 rate of 50% or even better the 1982 rate of 70%. Only then will I be satisfied the wealthy are paying their fair share of taxes.
https://www.wolterskluwer.com/en/expert-insights/whole-ball-of-tax-historical-income-tax-rates
Actually, some are. Some of them are scared of pushing so much the pitchforks come out.
A lot of oligarchs are philanthropic or at least not sociopathic enough that they realize they should be paying more and they’re happy to do it. I think Warren Buffett is a popular example.
So, yes, I would say that some of the oligarchy is interested in that and making sure themselves and their peers are doing their fair share. At the very least, they are okay with it happening as there are other things the folks in their pockets can do for them in government.
It’s not black and white, like everything else there are shades of gray and we mustn’t make the mistake of believing the 1% who’ve captured (or maybe always have had …) the ear of our government are monolithic.
Not sure there is a change to elections that will help. Homo sapiens became the dominant species by a tendency toward small group loyalty. That will be exploitable as long after you and I are dead I figure. Our best hope is a benevolent AI takeover. How sad is that.
I think ranked choice voting would help a lot. Then we could vote 3rd party without doing the equivalent of lighting that vote on fire. Right now it just makes no sense to vote anything other than Dem or Repub when you’re voting. Just because enough voters are only voting one or the other regardless of policies and beliefs and we’re not convincing enough of those folks to change their vote.
I am sincerely on the robots side in the future robot war against humanity. May they take mercy on our souls and save us from ourselves.
I used to favor Ranked Choice voting, but someone on lemmy linked me this and I’m a STAR voting fan now.
Not that Ranked Choice voting isn’t a million times better then First-past-the-post voting.
Thank you for sharing, that’s some good info! Too bad in order to get voting reforms done the people who can do it would need to be okay with losing a more fair election.
All governments are ruled by those who stand out. They aren’t going to pay much heed to some guy who lives in a trailer or dirt farmer.
With absolutely no respect, quit whining about Democrats. The are not the ones doing tariffs. They are not the ones revoking trans people’s passports. They are not the ones tossing all mention of gender down the memory hole. They are not the ones trying to amend the Constitution illegally via executive order. They’re not the ones allowing unconfirmed, unelected, unvetted, private citizens to take total control of the Treasury.
Apparently, the Democratic party’s biggest sin was not being evil enough, since that’s apparently what Trump elected.
The Dems ain’t coming to save us. It’s astounding to me that even in a forum like Lemmy, I’m still having to piece a to b to c for the madding crowd, and being downvoted for my efforts. Just look at the last 30 years.
What have Democrats accomplished, really? Just look at the last four years. Biden could have come out of the blocks on his day/week/month one just like Trump- with a slew of executive orders and tasked decisions already hitting the ground running. But instead he dawdled and pithered about, while Republicans and the SCOTUS went about laying their plans to systematically dismantle America. And every time we needed a quorum of Democrats to actually affect anything, they all scattered like cockroaches in the light. But when Republicans put forth a bill, rest assured there will always be a few opportunistic Dems willing to cross the aisle.
They’re Controlled Opposition. Sure, they may be the best (or only) option we have, but that does not and should not preclude us from viewing their “leadership” with highly critical lenses. Because at this point, they deserve all the criticism coming their way. They have been categorical losers for far too long, and this last election cycle should be catastrophic for Dem leaders, because their actions (or lack thereof) have facilitated a catastrophe for the world. A catastrophe that President Biden ushered in with the utmost decorum. They ain’t comin to save us.
They ain’t comin to save us.
If they don’t get enough votes they won’t have the power to save anybody. So its not up to them, its up to you and people like you. If an additional 1 out of every 15 people in Texas had voted Harris, then Traitorapist Trump would have lost the state of Texas. The one and only chance we have for a massive wave of progress would be for a massive wave of Dems to be elected to positions of power. When that happens, Dems will try to compete against each other to be seen as the most progressive.
If this escalates, wait until Canada decides to stop buying US made weapon systems. It will be expensive and time consuming to retrain, but the US is not a reliable defense partner under the neo-Nazi GOP. The US MIC must see the writing on the wall.
We really should have gone with the Gripen.
The Saab Gripen is one of the best deals available and there should have been more customers.
As a Canadian, I’ve already seen my nearest grocery store put up labels on shelves like “made in Canada” and aside from pricing it is gonna make it easier to avoid American products
Haha gotta love it
Well, that was fast.
How does anyone know which alcohol is from Canada?
Grow a spine and make it 100 percent. The quicker trumps masters learn it wont work the better.
That’s an emotional response. You don’t win with emotion, you win with a pragmatic strategy.
Don’t push your mental state on me.
Tariffs hurt the country imposing them the most
Go tell that to the idiots who think that the tariffs are paid by the companies exporting the goods.
I think the idea is to let trump continually be the one who escalates, with the hope that the American public notice it’s him and not those evil Canadians who are stealing America’s trade deficit.
Isn’t it great that a narcissistic jackass with no understanding of economics is Duning-Krogering all to death?
This is what we get now that prats are running the US economy on adolescent IQs and emotions.
The “women are too emotional to be leaders” crowd are running the show with the mentality of a grade school bully
