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I see a lot of right wing influencers arguing a kind of might makes right rhetoric. They say that the US should take Greenland simply because it can, and the US needs it. Which makes me wonder if I as a Dane am morally justified in gathering a few friends, breaking into these influencers homes, kicking them out, and just take up residence. After all, I need their houses, and my friends and I are stronger. Isn’t that so?
I suppose there is no moral obligation for me to obey American laws, if there is no moral obligation for America to obey international laws. If the US is justified in hostile takeover of a foreign democratic nation, then I see no reason why I, as a Danish citizen, should abide by US laws.
You’re descendants of Vikings. Go Viking.
Take their treasure while you’re at it.
Be incredibly angry at Americans
Invade Quebec
Become very cold
Leave after about 80 years
Yesterday, I heard Magnus Carlson get called an insufferable viking. ‘Twas humorous.
I doubt the chess champion cares if he gets called a slur, but I know nothing, definitely nothing relevant. Godspeed
I see a lot of right wing influencers arguing a kind of might makes right rhetoric.
Always the case with fucking fascists.
While that is the case, I wonder how many in America actually approves of this given the proliferation of right wing bot accounts. I think that even if the US decides to invade Greenland, that might trigger a US civil war because, unlike Venezuela and Iraq where there are dictators which give plausible excuse to invade, Denmark and Greenland is clearly a democratic and peaceful country. A lot of Americans know this.q Invading Venezuela did not even create a rally around the flag effect in favour of Trump admin as some might have expected, in order for Trump to artificially shore up his approval ratings. I certainly thought that more Americans might have gotten on board with Trump admin immediately, considering how they jumped to bandwagon to support the invasion of Iraq.
Which makes me wonder if I as a Dane am morally justified in gathering a few friends, breaking into these influencers homes, kicking them out, and just take up residence.
The thing about Might Makes Right is that hypotheticals aren’t a signal of strength.
What would happen if you tried? You’d probably get in an altercation. People would be injured. The local police would be called to break it up. And nobody would care that you were trying to prove a rhetorical point.
I suppose there is no moral obligation for me to obey American laws, if there is no moral obligation for America to obey international laws.
To borrow a quip from Brandon Lee Mulligan
Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army. You know what I mean?
But in a hypothetical “might makes right”, cops aren’t ever safe either and don’t act with impunity of the courts and the consent of the governed. Police stop being police, and are just people with a slightly above average level of force in a mad max world.
If they thought the job sucked before with high rates of PTSD and suicide, just wait.
But in a hypothetical “might makes right”, cops aren’t ever safe either and don’t act with impunity of the courts and the consent of the governed.
Cops operate as armed gangs with staked out turf. They’re safe, broadly speaking, because they have a collectivist attitude towards their own defense. If you fuck with one cop, you are inevitably fucking with the entire department. And police departments - particularly in big cities - have enormous amounts of money, capital, and manpower to deploy against individuals and small groups in opposition.
If they thought the job sucked before with high rates of PTSD and suicide, just wait.
Not remotely high enough.
And the job doesn’t suck. It is highly coveted, both for the amazing pay/benefits - some of the best in the public sector and regularly well above the local median - and for the slew of “fringe” benefits that come from gang membership - prosecutorial immunity when engaged in drug/human trafficking, assault/battery/spousal abuse, vehicle crimes, intoxication, etc.
https://www.zippia.com/salaries/police-officer/
Entry level $38k average $52. Not exactly amazing pay. The coveted nature of the job is little dicks want power to abuse.
Edit: from https://www.cna.org/reports/2024/03/Law-Enforcement-Deaths-By-Suicide.pdf
Public safety personnel die by suicide at a higher rate than the general population. For example, Violanti et al. (2013) found that detectives and criminal investigators had a higher suicide rate than the general population, and Dixon (2021) found that rates of suicide among public safety personnel are higher than rates of death in the line of duty. Various job-related factors contribute to these tragedies in law enforcement officers, including repeated exposure to life-threatening situations, the strain of shift work on sleep patterns and relationships, ready access to firearms, prior military experience, and the demographic profile of law enforcement, which predominantly comprises White males, a group already at elevated risk of suicide (Dixon, 2021; Stanley et al., 2016; Violanti et al., 2013). In contrast, factors contributing to the suicide of correctional officers remain less clear, largely because of high turnover rates (Malik et al., 2023).
The job does suck.
Entry level $38k average $52.
NYPD pay is $60k starting and $125 after five years. That doesn’t include overtime or benefits. At 33k officers and counting, they’re the biggest department in the country. Base salary in Houston is $80k with Senior Officers earning as much as $140k.
Go more local and you’ll find the starting officer pay regularly outruns the median salary and benefits. The NYC median salary is $73k. Houston is $56k. You can find officers in smaller towns earning less. But they’re inevitably in a township with residents that are even poorer.
And, again, this is just baseline salary. Police Unions regularly secure 1.5x - 2x overtime pay compensation, resulting in some curious compensation figures
Houston senior police officer Matthew Davis’ annual salary was about $90,000 this past fiscal year. He made nearly $170,000 more in overtime.
It was not an anomaly. Davis has collected more in overtime than his base salary every year since at least 2020, and was previously disciplined for participating in an overtime scheme involving fabricated witness claims on traffic tickets. He is part of a growing pattern among the city’s highest-paid traffic enforcement officers who routinely collect overtime earnings that match or exceed their base salaries, a Houston Chronicle analysis found
Hardly the only department that’s been scandalized by this kind of misconduct.
The coveted nature of the job is little dicks want power to abuse.
Definitely one of the “fringe” benefits.
The job does suck.
Most jobs suck. Few include the number of perks afforded to entry level staff.
Oh look! Cherry picking. I didn’t know it was in season.
I think more cops should commit suicide to be honest.
Valid.
Anyone who is talking about this should first realize that a NATO member is trying to get territory from another member just because they think it’s better for their geopolitical situation, this will break NATO as an alliance because then Greece and Turkey will take it as a greenlight to take action against the disputed territories between themselves. Which will cause the collapse of NATO and who knows what Non-NATO countries will try to do. This is not about MAGA bullshit it will cause a huge change and might even cause the WW3 to start instead of the proxy wars we’ve been seeing. I’m saying this a person who doesn’t like NATO.
It will not break NATO. Since it is a defensive pact.
If the US attacks Greenland, every NATO member will jump to the defense of Greenland because they are the country being invaded. That is how the pact is written. Doesn’t matter if the invading country is NATO themselves or not.
The only thing this will cause in NATO is that the US will be kicked out.
This is wishful thinking. This will brake NATO or they will just shrug and move on. Europe is still to reliant on the US as a protective force. Maybe this will help them see that the time in which the US cared for anybody but them self belong to the past. Right now to many EU countries are clinging to world order that died with Trump 2.
Well said, and it really puts it all into perspective. There are vast geopolitical consequences.
Has NATO really prevented anything between Türkiye and Greece?
I thought there were explicit exceptions for the defense agreement in case the conflict is between member states, precisely because of Türkiye and Greece.Edit: from what I can find, there is no explicit exceptions but it is generally understood that article 5 is only to be invoked for external aggression. No action was undertaken by NATO when Cyprus was invaded.
you are morally justified in using the method of your aggressor enemy against them, yes
A Dane invading and pillaging… I’ve heard this one before.
Do it. Embrace your Viking ancestry.
These morons would take us back to living in caves and knocking women over the head with clubs to claim their spouse if they had their druthers.
This juvenile “might makes right” perspective is so goddam infantile it’s almost laughable, if these weren’t the idiots with the guns.
This is idiotic. Denmark gave US right to freely access it’s military bases. They signed new treaty in 2023 and further approved US military bases on their soil in 2025! How will they know US is invading them when US has legal right to access their military installations and can request the use private land in Denmark? They will shoot first and ask if they were Americans later?
They have to request the use of private land and obviously most of Greenland and Denmark is not a US military base.
But they can freely access their military bases. And US has their own military bases in Greenland. So who Greenland is going to shoot exactly? The airplanes flying to US bases in Greenland? The soldiers legally entering Dutch military bases?
Also:
“When requested, the Danish Executive Agent shall make reasonable efforts to facilitate temporary access to and use of private land and facilities (including roads, ports, and airfields), and public land and facilities (including roads, ports, and airfields) that are not a part of an Agreed Facility and Area, including those owned or controlled by Denmark or by local authorities, by U.S. forces, U.S. contractors, and Danish contractors for use in support of U.S. forces. U.S. forces, U.S. contractors, or Danish contractors shall not bear the cost of such facilitation”
US can request access and Denmark has to facilitate it if possible. They can’t just deny it because they don’t feel like it. That’s the 2023 agreement.
“U.S. forces, U.S. contractors, Danish contractors, dependents, and others as mutually agreed are authorized unimpeded access to and use of Agreed Facilities and Areas for visits; training; exercises; maneuvers; transit; support and related activities; refueling of aircraft; bunkering of vessels; landing and recovery of aircraft; temporary maintenance of vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; accommodation of personnel; communications; staging and deploying of forces and materiel; pre-positioning of equipment, supplies, and materiel; security assistance and cooperation activities; joint and combined training activities; humanitarian and disaster relief activities; contingency operations; construction in support of mutually agreed activities”
agreements with the US don’t mean shit anymore, the US has shown that. everything is null.
So we should just declare all international laws null? Yeah, that’s a great idea.
no, all agreements with the US can be ignored, since the US has already decided and shown it will do whatever it wants regardless of existing agreements / laws
It’s generally agreed across the entire world that if you enter a contract with someone and that person breaks the terms of said contract, you are no longer beholden to those terms.
I assume these things are authorized or announced in some way. If paratroops start falling or landing craft are launched that’s a good indicator.
How will they know US is invading
Counterpoint. How will the US know they have taken Greenland. What will be different?
Resource and mineral rights.
The first sign will be that when Denmark pulls out of the treaties and tells US to leave they will just ignore them. This will show that Denmark doesn’t really control the territory. That’s why Denmark didn’t do it yet. As long as it’s just talk they can keep pretending they can somehow defend themselves.
What US can do to prove they actually have taken the territory is to stage some confrontation, for example start mining there without permission. Will Denmark shoot the miners? Will they send police? Military? What if US military defends the miners? Clearly Denmark will not “shoot first and ask questions later” in this situation but US can show they have effectively taken over.
In the end it really depends on what US want’s to achieve here. If they just want resources proving that they can access them at will would be enough,if they want to use if for military operation they just have to prove Denmark can’t kick them out, if they want to control their economy (which I doubt) they will have to kick out Danish administration and force citizens to pay taxes to IRS and if they want to humiliate EU they just have to change it on the maps and show that EU can’t do anything about it.
from what I understand, they also make it pretty easy for American companies to buy licenses to mine whatever they want from the ground
there is no good reason to occupy the country. it makes no sense
The reason is to humiliate and subjugate Europe.
what if they didn’t want to buy the licenses? what if they just wanted to take everything?
what if the US is the new nazi germany and just needs lebensraum for a post-climate change world?
so many questions, who can say
What is idiotic is the bullshit that the paedo in chief is trying to pull.
It doesn’t matter what Denmark signed 3 years ago now that the other side is threatening an invasion.
Stop everything until either the orange child rapist is killed, dies, is forcibly ousted, or (lol) common sense prevails. Until then any us soldier or worker should be classed as a threat and any unnecessary us personnel should leave. The end.
If any us person in Greenland has to ask themself “am I necessary?”, then they aren’t. And should leave.
If the us population doesn’t like it then they should do something about the russian stooge they’ve enabled to be president (twice).They voted to permit US military bases on Dutch soil in 2025, AFTER Trump started talking about taking over Greenland. So Trump made idiotic demand and they rolled over. Now they are trying to play tough. It’s just pathetic.
Stop everything until either the orange child rapist is killed, dies, is forcibly ousted, or (lol) common sense prevails. Until then any us soldier or worker should be classed as a threat and any unnecessary us personnel should leave. The end.
Yeah, they could unilaterally pull out of those treaties but they didn’t. Until they do talking about “shooting first” is just idiotic.
You know what they should actually do? Not some “we will go to war” fantasy but actual action they could take today? ASML, the only manufacturer of modern photolithography machines in the world, is a Dutch company. Like 70% of US stock market is now AI. Without ASML US economy collapses. They could say “in case of invasion we will stop exports of ASML equipment”. They didn’t. My only explanation for this is that they are stupid (and/or controlled by foreign agents). It’s just bunch of idiots letting orange paedo do whatever he wants without consequences.
It doesn’t matter. They’ve gone from “We might bully you” to “We have the right to take anything we want from any other country”
And as with any bully you should stand up to them and never back down. It matters fuck all about contracts and treaties and agreements.If my next door neighbour said in passing he was going to attack my house, then stated he had the right to attack me in my house you better believe that as soon as I see that neighbour coming anywhere near me then I’m attacking first.
If you want to cower behind ‘agreements’ then you can. See how that works out for you.If my next door neighbour said in passing he was going to attack my house, then stated he had the right to attack me in my house you better believe that as soon as I see that neighbour coming anywhere near me then I’m attacking first.
More appropriate analogy would be that you gave your neighbor a key to your home and now you’re saying that when he breaks into your home you will beat him up him but he can keep the key and can enter whenever he wants.
“Breaks in” is the important part. Since he has a key your statement is an empty threat but let’s you feel in control.
Again, it doesn’t matter.
I could carve a decree in stone that is witnessed by Satan himself that that any neighbour could break in to my house if they want to. It would still be shitty behaviour on their part if they did it, and they should not be shocked if I fight back.
Jesus fucking Christ.
You’d be surprised to learn that Denmark is not really The Netherlands. What the unrelated country had done in 2025 likely has no relation to what Denmark is experiencing.
Fuck, Danish…
As my excuse, English is confusing and it’s not my first language. My point still applies to the whole EU though. They have huge leverage over US but are too divided and cowardly to use it.
I said it right after Venezuela, it was a one time thing.
No country would fire first on America, because what’s the worst that could happen if they didn’t?
Now that ‘they abduct you and your family and take you to America’ is an option, countries are going to shoot first and risk war.
We’re going to see UN stuff move over to Europe as well, leaders aren’t going to want to risk setting foot here.
Good for them! If you have an armed military coming in to steal your land, you have no other choice but to fight to the death.
Trump wanted to start as many wars as possible as quickly as possible, and his regime is making sure it happens FAST.
Just adding: because he is a a MEGA PEDO WHO RAPED CHILDREN AND THIS IS ALL BECAUSE HE WANTS PEOPLE TO FORGET ABOUT THE EPSTIEN FILES
Also because it’s far easier to justify suspending democratic processes by pointing at an ongoing military crisis and making emergency laws.
We’ve never cancelled an election, not even during the first Civil War, so we will NEVER accept any excuses for cancelling elections, not military actions, not civil unrest, not nothin’.
So please don’t even hint that there is a scenario that would be acceptable to suspend elections. That is a BRIGHT RED LINE that can NEVER be crossed. That violates our Constitutional/ Social Contract to a fatal degree, signalling the end of American Democracy, and the start of Civil War.
Good. Let’s hope that conviction is never put to the test, but I wouldn’t put it past him to try.
Thanks, I haven’t seen this repeated in the last 15 minutes, and it’s important to keep this front and center.
Also, not just Trump. All Conservatives are MAGA, and all MAGAS are PedoCons.
Those files for certain implicate much of the GQP establishment and Trump otherwise they’d have no trouble releasing it for the few liberals that are on there compared to them.
Trump wanted to start as many wars as possible as quickly as possible, and his regime is making sure it happens FAST.
All while whining that he should get the Nobel Peace Prize. Did anyone ever explain to him that the Peace in the Peace Prize doesn’t stand for “Piece Of Ass” in the Epstein way?
He thought it was a piece of pie.
A lot of debate on this in Denmark. Not a shared opinion amongst the people or political parties. Law might be in place but it’s another thing to inact it. Denmark won’t stand a chance anyway.
The Johnathon Ross Doctrine.
I doubt Denmark could fend off the U.S., especially since other NATO countries are likely just monitoring the situation rather than taking action.
The Nordics are pretty great at arctic warfare, just look at how well the Finns did. Pretty much all their gear are usable in arctic conditions and they train regularly for guerrilla warfare in extreme cold. The situation for the US is not the same. Most of their gear will not work in the winter in Greenland.
Im not saying they will win, i just mean that it’s more complex than having the larger gun.
However, the US are about to loose big in trade. Who the hell will want to buy America?
However, the US are about to loose big in trade. Who the hell will want to buy American?
Australian’s. Yes, we’re arseholes.
The Russians still fear the Finns. Every now and then they get a bit froggy, and the Finns just flip them the bird, and spit in their general direction, and the Russkies scurry on home.
These are the descendants of Vikings. Let’s settle it with a cage match between Stephen “PeeWee Himmler” Miller, and a Viking of their choice.
No tapping out, hand-to-hand battle to the death.
The US has a military base in Greenland already. Pituffik Space Base doesn’t appear to be going anywhere, despite all the bluster.
And as the US is the military backbone of NATO, I’m not seeing how NATO as an institution would respond with the leadership structure and base management riddled with American personal.
Please tell me the soldiers there call it “Pity Fuck”
At some point, NATO will have to acknowledge that America is NOT part of their alliance, at least not at this moment. If Russia were to attack Europe, or China were to take Taiwan, Trump wouldn’t do a thing about it.
If a real American ever gets into the White House, and not a corrupt traitor pedophile, maybe NATO will have us back, as long as we clean up our act and purge MAGA from our government and society.
If Russia were to attack Europe, or China were to take Taiwan, Trump wouldn’t do a thing about it.
Trump’s cabinet is stuffed to the brim with people who are crazy enough to fight a war with China. What they can’t handle is China not invading Taiwan and, instead, stacking up China-friendly political allies on the island until the Parliament tips their way.
Meanwhile, Russians are damned near out of gas. They barely have the manpower to control that eastern slice of Ukraine. If they launched attacks into the European mainland and provoked a real material response from a combined Western Europe, they would be in huge trouble. But, again, that was never really Putin’s intention. He’s been building up alliances with white nationalist parties all across the continent. By 2030, you’re going to have a swath of ultra-nationalists running every Parliament from the AfD in Germany to Reform UK.
And he’s going to be doing it in coordination with Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkiye, and India. Countries America bribed into a temporary alliance aren’t going to be there when the US economy goes into another recessionary tailspin. That’s what will really fuck NATO up.
And all this happening on the eve of a climate catastrophe, too.
FINALLY! Someone with some Critical Thinking Skills who gets what’s really happening. I’ve been arguing with people who think that Trump, Russia, and China are all acting totally independently. There is no possible way that they are carving up the world into three showers of influence, despite daily obvious evidence of it EVERY DAY.
And I can’t even start to worry about the climate right now. I’ve got zombies on my doorstep, demanding that I voluntarily offer myself up for enslavement, I can’t worry about what’s going on down the street right now.
Excellent post.
And I can’t even start to worry about the climate right now.
That’s a shame, because we are fucking in for it as the Colorado dries up in our winter heat wave. Nevermind what’s going to happen to Poland or Macedonia. I’d be worried what happens between Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and California during the next growing season.
There are multiple countries having dialogues to plan their actions.
This is no longer a situation where the US can simply walk in and take what it wants and getting a big payoff instead of facing consequences.
Allies will form. Even the worst segment of the US population doesn’t want WWIII, a civil war yes, but they don’t want their kids drafted to die over the annex of Greenland.
They might do a good enough job to not make it worth taking, though it’s a bit of a hard thing to judge when the invading force isn’t using logic
This is the only goal the Europe can aim for. Force the U.S. to take a step that they don’t want to, and that they will lose because of. They won’t lose militarily, but they could lose politically and economically in the long tern.
Does that include the US troops already stationed in Greenland?
I would believe if they would not surrender formally and act hostile then yes.
Seems like there’s already enough hostility to justify asking them to leave.
This thread is all Europeans lol. If we wanted Greenland we would just take it. There’s only 55k people there and Denmark has like, one division at most. The rest of the EU would just piss and moan like usual as we ARE NATO. A single US aircraft carrier group is stronger than their entire navy.
This bullshit about Denmark resisting is hilarious. Maybe you should all shut the fuck up because we can do whatever we want and you outsourced your defense 80 years ago.
The account joined 3 months ago. Probably a bot/Russian stooge.
Careful, your American is showing.
The telegraph is a rag.
Remember who started everything!
I guess we gonna wait for the court in USA to stop Trump. No revolution, sit and watch.Obviously it was Denmark. Did you even see how it dressed Greenland? What did it expect?
Did you even see how it dressed Greenland?
…in ice?
Republicans are super into ice right now…
Some of them definitely seem like they’re on meth…coughcoughkashpatelcoughcough
Greenland was dressed in ice, the US is dressed in ICE
You must not be American, the courts are in his pocket. Nothing is going to stop him.
The nail that sticks up, gets hammered down
They’re all going to get hammered down anyway.
No revolution
Nobody wants to be the first one to stick their neck out.
Renee Nicole Good already did.
She got gunned down dropping her daughter off at daycare. She wasn’t doing a Leftist 9/11 on the police.
Really? I apologize then, I thought she was intentionally blocking them (which I 100% am in support of, to be clear). I bought the propaganda, I guess, weee :(. Thank you for the correction.
Good. Someone needs to stand up to Trump.
If it’s America, just shoot. No need for questions at this point.
Greenland is an important indicator for world climate health, don’t support any dangerous idea there pls. Try Choosing alternate methods.
don’t support any dangerous idea there pls
Dangerous idea like rolling over for fascists? Surely just one more illegal invasion and they’ll stop.
That sounds like something you should take up with the Danish Ministry of Defense.
Or maybe Trump who is causing all this shit
I have far more faith in the Danish MoD, but I certainly admire your optimism
Try Choosing alternate methods.
Swords?
Spears, pikes, cavalry charges. It’ll be glorious. World went to shit eversince we stopped using pieces of metal to hit one another on the head.
We shot and thought it was self explanatory.
Other nations need to follow your lead.
We’ve secured the oil fields, as Hitler failed to do, now we take most of this hemisphere. Europe cannot build a strike force without the US military watching every single boat.
The US deploys hunter-killer subs in the Atlantic, it’s over. Europe won’t be able to land a fucking kayak. Also, we have boomers capable of ending life on this planet. And no one knows where the deadliest weapons mankind has ever devised lay. (Boomers, nuclear warhead delivery platforms, with multiple bombs per missile, not old people.)
Miller was right, we’re taking Greenland and there’s jack shit anyone can do about it.
Americans: If it wears a uniform and carries a gun, it is a legitimate target. Shoot back. What are they gonna do? Kill you first? I’d rather die second.
Ah those pesky Boomers. Why bother with thermo-nuclear weapons when you can use a Boomer from 1946-1964.
What is wrong with you? Do you even realize you’re talking about armed robbery or does that simply not register? You’re gleefully advocating for murdering other people who’ve done nothing to you so you can steal their shit, as if that’s some God-given right.
What happened to ‘Thou shalt not kill’, ‘Thou shalt not steal’ and ‘Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house’?
Thou shalt not mention me being a hypocrite
Ah yes. The notorious eleventh conservative commandment.
I didn’t read their comment as advocacy but hopelessness.
Reading it again with that perspective in mind it’s possible, if far from clearly the case.
Of course, seeing as how I’m Danish, I’m hardly unbiased. I freely admit that I’m getting more than a little tired of people talking about my impending violent death at the hands of a supposed ally, especially one for which we’ve already shed more than enough of our blood.
It’s entirely possible that I’m losing what little patience I had left for American idiocy.
It says “thou” not “I” is what they take from this probably.
You might be right that the usa has the military means to conquer Greenland, but Europe has the means to make it not worth it
This is exactly it. There is only one force in the world that can take out a US aircraft carrier, and that’s the non-US part of NATO.
Yes, the US has nuclear subs that can stay underwater forever, but they’re noisy. They don’t have stealthy subs like Sweden, Netherland or many other European countries have. NATO exercises have shown that even one of these subs can wipe out most of a carrier group.
Greenland is far from the US; they’ll have to send a carrier. NATO can sink that carrier. How will Trump look if he loses a carrier?
The only thing necessary for this scenario is for the EU to finally grow some balls.
Even my shitty-shit country - Portugal - which most definitelly can’t afford the costs of a single aircraft carrier even though it has a massive exclusive economic area in the Atlantic and Mediterranean, some years ago had a submarine win a NATO exercise when it popped up undetected in the middle of the carrier group.
Even with its main focus of “force projection” being on Trade rather than Military power, Europe is a whole different beast to face militarily than Latin America, and not just because it’s far more likely to be united in its response.
This is probably why Trump hasn’t invaded Greenland yet - his military people know very well it would be a very different story militarily and his diplomats know it would be a very different story in terms of the broader consequences.
I think modern Navies are mostly useless. Between drones and stealth submarines they can all be sunk basically immediately. Honestly this could make it difficult for Europe to intervene at all
Unfortunately the US has the capability to move troop to Greenland by air. It’s how it moved most things into Afghanistan. A country much further away.
Truthfully they could launch ballistic missiles from the mainland and then follow with aircraft, paratroopers, etc. The existing bases provide airfields.
I say this not because I want it, but because it’s possible and that’s frightening.
You’re absolutely right, but the US is not right next door to Greenland, and Greenland’s allies include Canada. When the US attacked Afghanistan, it had tons of allies. All of NATO was on their side, they had air bases they could use everywhere. Afghanistan had no allies and no capabilities to do much about the US.
Greenland is different; if they attack by air, Canada would by NATO treaty be obliged to shoot them down. And Canada has plenty of defenses against ballistic missiles, because they were basically the US’s northern flank during the cold war.
If the rest of NATO stays united, this would be a disaster for the US. Of course war within NATO would be terrible for Europe and Canada too. The only winners here would be Putin and Xi.
Well, sorta.
The US’s main power projection strategy is still (and has been for decades) to have an aircraft carrier group parked about 1000km away from the coast of whichever nation they’re attacking, pouding their target with airpower and cruise missiles whilst being far out enough that most cruise missiles can’t even reach them and those which can take so long that the carrier group has plenty of time to prepare and defend itself.
The Chinese and the Russians both developed hypersonic missiles exactly to counter that, as such missiles get there much faster so the carrier group has maybe half a minute of advanced warning to try and take them down rather than 10+ minutes.
This strategy has been very successful against militarilly second and lower tier nations, which is why the US has been using it since the first Iraq war.
However, for all its underinvestment in its military, Europe isn’t second tier (and neither is China).
As for the second part of your post, “boots on the ground” is exactly were the US massivelly sucks beyond the initial invasion stage: they’re great at getting there and breaking shit up whilst completelly sucking at actually holding territory. Personally, from the videos I’ve seen of US troops trying to “create good will with the locals” in places like Afghanistan, they seem to be completelly shit at understanding and respecting the way of life of the locals and they reeking with a mindset of “I’m a member of a superior civilization trying to civilize the barbarians” (which, as an European, I find hilarious, since America isn’t actually all that culturally or societally civilized - especially in treating people as actual human beings - compared just about all European countries).
All this to say that the US invading Greenland would succeed, but directly cost the US far more than even Afghanistan and in a far shorter time, and they would almost certainly lose control of it in at most a decade or two, not least because they totally suck at getting the locals around to support them: trying to take on the most hardcore and resilient of the descendants of the Vikings in a land which in some ways is the polar equivalent of Afghanistan - huge, harsh and with massive uninhabited and hard to occupy areas - whilst the people there don’t at all feel they have an inferior culture to America’s (so they’re hardly attracted by the prospect of becoming American citizen) seems to me like an impossible task.
The real problem with Greenland is it being worth taking back. It has a population of 50k. The biggest town has a population smaller than all but the most rural towns in most countries. The expenditure of untold quantities of money and unknown numbers of lives to re-take it is going to be hard to swallow for most of NATO.
The issue is the US can park a carrier at the northernmost part of Maine and be about 1,200 km from the largest city in Greenland. So still within range.
I also think Afghanistan is a poor comparison. The US never intended to conquer the nation. It wanted to setup a puppet government. It also didn’t throw the full military force at it.
Truthfully we’ve never seen the US engage in a total war to conquer a nation.
If the US threw everything it had at Greenland they could take over most major cities within days. Likely before Denmark/the remainder of NATO could mount a response.
Now that being said effectively patrolling all of Greenland probably wouldn’t be realistic. This would allow for counter insurgency, which is effective against the US typically. Although I doubt this government would give up based in that. More notably the vastness of Greenland will give Denmark and allies an opportunity to establish a foothold to reclaim Greenland.
The best thing Denmark and its allies could do right now is to put more defenses in Greenland. Make it impossible for a quick strike to topple it.
Ideally defensive posturing would discourage an attack entirely. If it doesn’t it would save Denmark and it’s allies more lives while costing the US more.
Either way if the US does invade it will be a lot of pointless bloodshed.
Also unrelated to the war bit, but Greenland is mostly populated by native peoples. Not the descendants of vikings (although there is certainly a percentage that are)
Truthfully we’ve never seen the US engage in a total war to conquer a nation.
Ahem: Vietnam.
Also I think you’re missing a massive point here: You can’t “topple” Greenland by totally destroying or taking over Greenland because it’s part of Denmark and the seat of the Danish Government isn’t there, nor are their main military assets, and this is before you even consider their European allies.
If Greenland was a country relying only on itself, it would totally make sense that it could be taken by just taking its major cities, but it’s not, it’s an independent region of Denmark, a country which in turn is allied with almost all other European countries.
The US can invade and totally crush Greenland’s big cities and that will still do very little to crush resistance because that’s not were most of it will be coming from. This also brings us around the whole carrier group thing: the carrier group would be how the US would be trying to stop the feeding of resistance in Greenland from Europe, since that would be coming from the very opposite side of the island (and as “islands” go, Greenland is huge, with 25% of the area of the US, so that’s a pretty insane task).
IMHO what the Greenlanders and more in general the Danish should be doing is not to try and stop the elements of warfare that the US does best - such as the actual initial invasion - but actually try and make that as costly as possible whilst at the same time setting up the conditions for a long term Resistance effort from the areas outside the cities to turn Greenland into a graveyard for American soldiers, something which is far more likely to end up with an outcome like Vietnam were the daily procession or american coffins turns an overwhelming majority of the population against the War and the end result was that America ultimatelly lost it.
Finally on the last point, fighting Greenland is fighting Denmark and there are way more people in the rest of Denmark than in Greenland. That said you are right that many (if not most) of the people living in Greenland who know the whole place including the hardest and most remote areas, are probably descendants of the Innuit rather than of the Vikings (both people colonized the place).
This chud is absolutely lost in the sauce.
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Even at half strength Russia isn’t taking Alaska. Unless they give up on Ukraine entirely
Ahem
Vietnam and Afghanistan. You couldn’t win against countries that had almost nothing, if not the desire to defend themselves. Do you think it would go better against NATO?
I don’t get why americans think they’re the most hardcore motherfuckers out there. They keep losing to people in 30 year old Toyota Hilluxs in the middle of a desert, and people hiding in holes in the jungle with sticks covered in poop.
Sure, they have the capability to destroy every single living thing in the world, but as long as that isn’t profitable for them, they won’t actually do it.
