May they never have wives.
But fr, one of the things I’ve found interesting is how many men want a partner to the point of distress, but have batshit expectations of her, compared to how many women I’ve known who casually are interested in having a man but have hard limits as to what they’re willing to put up with and would much rather be single than put up with a shitty guy. And in response to this the same men who are functioning as worse than nothing options, are increasingly expecting more and more out of women.
When I look at this as a market problem I come to the opposite conclusion as these young men: that men should consider obeying their wives.
But yeah violent misogyny must be met with feminism with teeth. We will not go back.
Understand the sentiment but I think what you want to say “may they never have sex”. Least until they learn better.
Last thing we need is more pos like my uncle who never marry and just nut and run. Men on that side are soo trash. I dk how the gross creature has so many kids.
But yeah violent misogyny must be met with feminism with teeth. We will not go back.
I don’t know: these people seem to be getting a permission structure from the government. Honestly, I’ve been watching some of this stuff and mostly being quiet about a lot of it, even online.
But if you ask me honestly? I’m terrified about the direction things seem to be going. I’ve seen lots of unhelpful intergenerational warfare, mostly about boomers and Gen Y taking shots at one another, while my generation (Gen X) is playing the part of the forgotten child, just as we always have. Boomers seem to get blamed for everything in life, but it’s not like these other generations don’t have any agency!
But I’m very concerned about Gen Z and alpha, and just where they are going. It’s possible some of these people may break out of their mind forged manacles and moderate themselves or become more progressive, but that’s not how these things tend to work. People tend to drift to the right as they get older, not the other direction. And if they are starting at the trad wife position at such a young age?..yikes.
alpha is already being set up to fail worst than gen z when they all become adults, and gen z is already addictively consuming far right content
One of my Gen Z colleagues described a conversation they had with their wife wherein she said “you’re my best friend”, and he responded with “I’m not your friend I’m your husband”. I bet that made her feel good.
Did you call him a douche?
You should have
Idk, dipshit feels more appropriate. “Hey dipshit, sometimes you have to pay attention to the meaning over the words when your wife is expressing how she feels about you”
It’s not like he said it to her in my presence. The guy wants to ruin his marriage that’s his business, I got my own issues.
It found that gen Z males (born 1997-2012) were twice as likely as baby boomer men (born 1946-1964) to have traditional views on decision-making within a marriage, with just 13% of men in the older cohort agreeing that a wife should always obey her husband. Among women, 18% of gen Z and 6% of baby boomers agreed.
Hmmm okay… So the author states that gen z women are three times more likely to adopt these conservative viewpoints, which means they are being converted at a higher rate than men.
“I think there are a lot of grievances, a lot of fear of men losing social positions,” Chung said. “And there’s a vacuum that’s being filled with rhetoric and voices which are trying to pitch young men against gender equality, against young women, against migrants.”
Such an opportunity for an interesting article examining why, but of course they completely gloss that over and frame it as men being egotistical and gullible.
You’re older than youve ever been and now youre even older. Now youre even older. Now youre older still.
Well, gosh. This falls right in line with what I’ve been saying and wondering aloud about things like the Fourth Turning.
The Archie Bunker thing was something boomers stood up to make fun of their parents’ generation. That is the kind of thing that all this ginned-up inter-generational warfare that seems largely directed at the boomers (and the Silent Generation and Generation Jones somewhat) seems to miss.
And now we have all these younger “influencers” (barf) doing this kind of thing openly and unironically in the brosphere. The trad wife influencers. And those people and their fans are not the boomers…
To be clear, anyone who endorses this view is not a person. At best, they’re a human animal, and at worst they’re rabid.
a) you’re using “animal” like an insult. That’s not cool.
and b) calling shitty people “not people” isn’t cool either.
and c) just to reiterate, by contrast, animals (human or not) are people, and calling them “subhuman” is just… dude.
– Frost
I love animals. That is what we are. What I do not love is this pervasive delusion that all human animals are people. They are not.
The transcendental values that separate people from the other animals are not universally instantiated. Some humans are cruel. They do not care about what is true or moral. They are not subhuman. In many ways they’re only human.
They’re not people, because they lack moral and intellectual agency.
I am hoping it’s that gen-Z they surveyed was going through the middle/highschool edgy teenager phase.
Well considering the very youngest of gen Z are now about 14 and 15 with most of them being in their twenties I wouldn’t be so hopeful.
Interest fact totally ignored by the click-bait headline:
Among women, 18% of gen Z and 6% of baby boomers agreed.
So, among women, support for traditional gender roles tripled.
Social media ‘influencer tradewives’ and the red pill circle are a huge reason both are going up in support, it kind of comes with less critical thinking, education, social and civil rights for women being taught, the works.
Welp, can we pivot to start calling out toxic femininity?
Those women are about to learn the hard way why women had to fight for their freedom from this oppressive system. Have fun with that domestic violence and financial prison
I think I just figured out why I can’t decide if I’m pansexual or finsexual. It’s because so many masculine looking guys my age are assholes, so my brain just assumes that all masculine looking guys my age must be assholes, so I’ve been nearly entirely turned off to all masculine looking guys. I know that good men exist, but it seems like they are few and far between so I tend to just avoid men altogether unless they are gender nonconforming. So basically I’ve limited myself to femboys and wlw, but I would date a masculine looking guy if he happened to be one of the few who aren’t assholes, it’s just that they’re hard to find.
I also live in a small rural area though, so there’s probably a higher percentage of misogynistic assholes here compared to the cities but idk.
Remember that media gives voice to the minority to get clicks, not to inform you.
The difference may be that I live in a city, but almost all people I’ve come across in my life are genuinely good people. It’s hard to imagine that people like Andrew Tate or Nick Fuentes live in the real world. I like to think of it as a separate online world since people like that are few to come by.
To be fair, I don’t go out much, but that’s partly because I’m in the middle of nowhere and there’s like nothing out here. On dating apps the men I see pretty much always have their political views set to conservative or moderate.
I did go to a bar in the cities once and I did meet a guy I liked there but nothing ever came of it. I do get the impression that men in the cities are likely much better than where I live, but I haven’t spent much time in the cities though.
I am also thinking about when I was in highschool, specifically a yeehaw highschool, and my impression was that most guys would rather eat crayons than pay attention in class. Those guys also had loser flags on their trucks despite us being in a northern union state, and there were a lot of them. Though I did have some guy friends who were chill, I felt like they were in the minority.
Funny enough I can still relate as an asexual myself.
I had to cut many friendships with people because they started doing MAGA-style “jokes” after growing comfortable atound me.
Now I keep an extra distance just in case someone turns out to be a bigot, unless if there is a hint for the opposite like them being androgenous or anti-capitalist etc.
Luckily their suicide rate is higher. I used to think if the left changed its messaging to boys things would have played out better, but I see no hope of that.
Abort your male fetuses
Hey look an essentialist pissant who doesn’t know what social factors are. How’s that spot next to the likes of Rowling? Ah who am I kidding youre probably incapable of introspection meaning my insults and flyts are wasted on ya.
Do you got a solution? Or are we just going to flood them with more ‘man bad’ buzzwords tonkeep pushing them away? These people are going to get us killed.
As a man I can tell you the solution sure as shit isn’t to abort any male fetuses that’s for fucken sure. If I was younger I’d probably call you an SJW but frankly speaking I think you’re just an idiot.
As for actual solutions. Relatively simple, improve material conditions and put a bullet into freaks like Rogan, Carlson, and Peterson. The fact of the matter is that this has happened in the past, it happened during at least the French revolution and during the rise of fascism in the 1920s and 1930s. The solution to both at least in the pre-war period is to improve economic and material conditions, fascism got gutted here in the states due to the new deal and Napoleon granted enough stability and improvements to snub a lot of problems.
Is it a satisfying answer? Fuck no. But sadly most people don’t have an all encompassing hatred for cultists and incompetents that broke me out of the gamergate sphere. Turns out my hatred for Trump is genetic or at least so engraved into my person hood so as to have no definitive difference.
Okay, fine. I calmed down, but the fact is these people exist because they are the men that both sides seem to talk about the most. We cannot beat them by focusing so much on them. And your solution is something I doubt will ever happen.
Bread and circuses wasn’t just a way for the Romans to keep their population docile, it was how they prevented the empire from collapsing in on itself centuries before the fall of the Western half of Rome. Point is that improved material conditions would help to weaken this movement, probably won’t kill it since plenty of it is based in cults like Mormonism and modern Evangelical Christianity but it could stimmy the flow.
But yeah in many ways the cat is out of the bag and we are firmly in damage control now. I also do agree that focusing on those already within such groups is pretty much worthless, best place to start is to talk to kin, kith, and clan about it and try to prevent it from happening in the first place. Mind you this won’t stop it from happening but you may be able to redirect their rage towards the politicians and rich bastards who have created our modern material conditions through their greed.
Yeah, but it feels like we have to work against our own side for that to happen. Because at best a liberal man can do is be ‘one of the good ones’ and that shit is pretty is isoating when all gender discussion is focused on the worst of men.
Boys are effectively told they can only be monsters by both sides. Not a day goes by there is another study about how awful men are. Or some influencer tells them it’s okay to be a monster.
And that is it. No other message.
And I keep hearing about the need of a ‘liberal Joe Rogan’. But I can think of a few people who might fit that mold, but no one actually wants to talk about them. But we sure give Tate a lot of attention.
Yeah I don’t even know how we would go forward on that front. I’m pretty traditionalist amongst my kin but the problem is that still puts me as a progressive in larger society since it aligns me with union men, anti-authoritarians, and anit-assimilationists which is to say I’m a stereotype for pre-ww2 American Scots who somehow exists in the modern period.
Personally I do think there may be a way forward with that though I’m a tad bit tired typing this out since it’s 3 in the morning but still. Basically use traditional aesthetics to push progressive causes, sorta a shieldmadens, beer, and unions type of thing IDK. My brain is currently poisoned by my current EUV Frisia run so all I can think of is spamming privateers everywhere.
Abort yourself, fuckstick.
Apart from the fact that this is reported by The Guardian. It is important to highlight that it is not just a “gen Z” problem. This is yet another battle against the generations - and the fact is, gen alpha also has this problem.
It is baffling how yet again, people are needlessly correlating problems to a particular minority. Problems as a result of precise indoctrination, crafted by our glorious leaders and corporations. The fascism within our lives impacts everyone no matter the age.
So honestly who’s fault is it to enable such widespread fascism in the first place? Our whole ecosystem is basically fascists in disguise, technology crafted to indoctrinate people from their infancy and punish those which stray away.
This is a problem which disregards the root problem and shifts it all on meaningless “generations”. Growing up with fascist made technology essentially puts you on the fascist training programme. Of course, even if you didn’t - majority of the time they will leave you no other choice than to obey.
alpha will like suffer even worst insecurity than GEN Z, because they would be growing up with social media all thier lives, if not from toddler already
Some part of this is the male influencers, and some part of this is kids being ignorant. But being a straight woman in that age group must really suck.
There is no better proof that one doesn’t choose their sexuality than the existence of cisgender heterosexual women. I mean, hell, transgender heterosexual women, good luck to them, holy fuck.
If all us men died on Nov 24 thr world would be a better place.
That fact will never leave me. I honestly hate myself for existing.
I dunno, by that way of thinking there are plenty of ways of dividing up humanity and saying “if all those people died, the world would be a better place” - I don’t know how constructive it is, though. There’s nothing about being a man that prevents us from being good people, though there may be some things that make it harder
But we seem to always be defined by those bad people
I think I know what you mean. There is a lot of focus and attention being put on the shittier kind of masculinity these days – by some because they hate it, by others because they want to convince the world that it’s actually great and the key to unlocking a golden age.
Even though we don’t talk about better kinds of masculinity, I think that most people just know intuitively that they exist, though… unless they’ve just had horrible luck in life.
Don’t project your self hate onto everyone? If all men died all humans will die, along with many many domesticated species across the world. Does that sound like a “better place”?
I meant to say all the men in the US.
All the men in the US dying would be insanely devastating for the world too. You really don’t mean that.
I don’t. But I can’t stop thinking about it.
I’m starting to think that being a straight woman just sucks at any point in time, because young men are not the smartest ones on the block. Today’s young women, though, realize that there’s an off ramp.
Even 100 years ago there was social pressure on young men to learn how to behave properly. Being kicked out of the local church meant that you couldn’t hang with your friends and would probably have to leave town.
Today, you can spend 20 hours a day online, hearing exactly what you want to hear.
I’ve heard this content classified as “traditional” but what I’ve seen of the manosphere+friends is something else truly terrifying. It’s a mix of cult-like masochism and rhetoric you’d expect of a mass shooter or bomber; and it’s public and widely-viewed, liked… I grew up Catholic and in “traditional values”. This stuff goes beyond “woman is the home-maker” and “a family is a man and a woman”; to “women are sex slaves and property that men dominate”. It sounds like the ideology of some vile hentai, and perhaps that’s where it comes from.
Hell…, some of this rhetoric IS from mass-killers. The New Zealand mosque shooter was inspired by “Great Replacement Theory” at a time where that ideology was relegated to niche crevices of 4chan. Now extremist racist/incel beliefs are a core part of the platform of UK Reform, USA MAGA, German AfD, and general pronatalist ideology. And those parties are rising or seized power.
Someone was talking about online sports betting.
The pointed out that it’s aimed at young men who like sports anyway. Now they have a toxic and addictive app running 24/7.
Ah yes, the kids these days are missing out on the church-provided misogyny, that’s the issue.
Yeah I’m not going to back up church attendance as a solution but I think the point is they’re missing a real community to hold them accountable and even instill them with positive values in the first place, leaving online male echo chambers of despair to fill that void.
I think there is a real male loneliness epidemic and a crisis of identity among younger males, it seems.
Few people/institutions seem to be offering men an off-ramp from this confusion and stress…except for this toxic brosphere stuff, sadly. It really explains a lot about things like the Proud Boys.
Like you - I would not suggest a church as the solution. I really don’t know what the answer is for healthy outlets and support structures for men truly is, though. People yelling “men suck” at them is likely to only push them deeper into the worst behaviors.
Historically, this kind of discontent has never ended well.
I agree. Everybody agrees young men need to learn to be decent, but seemingly nobody wants to teach them “positive masculinity” without first beating them over the head about their inherant badness and the sins of their bloodline.
…Then these kids run to these disgusting “manosphere” cults that welcome them for being young men and offer the facade of fellowship and community, and everyone’s all surprise_pikachu.jpg that they start to internalize that poison.
Yep. I don’t really see any positive organizations/groups love-bombing young men.
Honestly, my generation also heard rather dire messages of a bleak future for us - literally, one of my first memories of punk was listening to “No Future” by the Sex Pistols. We were watching our parents grinding it out as economic hardship and new ideas about how to run corporations hit our parents. Ronnie Raygunism and Thatcherism seemed to result into young men falling into groups like the neo-Nazi skinheads in some areas, but that was at the margins and there were no “influencers” and there was no way for people like to “find the others” like this.
Back then, if someone bitched like these incels or these douchebros wanting a trad wife - they’d be told they are just too chickenshit and lazy to clean themselves up and learn to talk to women. They were not able to all find each other, en masse, have a few of them profit off of it, and then tell each other it is all the fault of the womenfolk. That’s not to say all of us were in a healthy place, but at least there was no multiplier effect like there is now.
I was one of the biggest fans and boosters of the 'net in the early days. These days, it seems to have so many negative effects, especially on the impressionable.
I’m an old man and still dumb as fuck. But at least I believe in equality. Dunno what’s wrong with the young dudes, they need to get a grip.
The billionaire pedofile parasite class has spent a lot of money to radicalize and brainwash them. It’s not looking good now that we’re literally going to war with the globe. I believe the bigger intention was to feed them into the meat grinder for shareholder profits and the imperial ambitions of the Turd Reich
Almost nobody is the smartest, unfortunately. Good relationships have always been hard to find, and the more discerning you are, the harder it is.
I think we are seeing that more today because historically, marriage was the default and the fact that most of them were bad for one or both participants was known by everyone but never addressed. See the entire genre of “wife bad” boomer humor as Exhibit A.
FFS don’t share journalism that summarises a study without linking to it
You appear to be linking to my own (later) comment
I separated them because to me they are different (related) points and I don’t particularly enjoy seeing people make multiple points when I only agree with one of them. I was also curious how many people agreed we shouldn’t be linking journalism that doesn’t link to the original study
This seems to be the press release from one of the groups that did the study:
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/almost-third-gen-z-men-globally-agree-wife-should-obey-her-husband
At the bottom is a download button with extra data analysis and their methodology but here is a direct link:
And how likely are they to be single? This idea is appealing to husbands but I don’t see Gen Z wives hopping on board with this idea.
18% are, as per the article.
Ok that’s really concerning because it means far right messaging is increasingly hitting girls, who had previously not been as hit by it.
If anything, Gen Z to-be-wives are more independent and self-realising than any generation before. And I’m all for it.
