I hate people who treat them like some toys and fantasize about them. That makes me think they are in some sort of death cult. That they found socially acceptable way to love violence.
I would still get one for safety but it is a tool made for specifically one thing. To pierce the skin and rip through the inner organs of a person.
They can serve a good purpose but they are fundamentally grim tools of pain and suffering. They shouldn’t be celebrated and glorified in their own right, that is sick. They can be used to preserve something precious but at a price to pay.
I was with you up until the “I would still get one for safely” part. We must clearly live in different kinds of areas, I’ve never felt the need to own one for any reason.
Well that’s nice and all, I am glad
And it’s worse than that. At least in most parts of the US, carrying a weapon “for safety” is likely to have negative results. You are less safe.
There are always accidents, innocent people in the way, curious kids, mental health crises.
And a gunfight is usually the worst possible situation. Given the choice of swallowing your pride and backing down or getting in a gunfight, swallowing your pride is safer. You don’t need a hun for that and a hun will tempt you to the choice that’s worse for you.
So you’re counting on having a loaded weapon around unsecured that’s never used by the wrong person or purpose. You’re counting on firing first and somehow being justified. Or that someone else shoots first and misses, then gives you time to get your weapon and shoot back…. And that your aim is better than there’s.
Its possible that you will successfully defend yourself but the odds are very long
The vast amount of Americans aren’t in that boat…
Every crazy person around me is carrying, all it takes these days is not driving exactly like how someone wants or unintentionally minor inconveniencing them for them to pull out a gun.
It’s not even staying out of “bad areas” anymore. It can (and does) happen everywhere. It just usually doesn’t make the news unless someone is shot in a nice area. A crazy person pulling a gun out might get media attention if it’s on video if not, cops don’t even care.
OP is right though, there are parts of the world where self defense is not as clear cut. The question you need to follow up with is “is this self defense against nature or people?”.
For example, there are places in the far north where polar bears are a problem, I doubt anyone other than Greenpeace would not have a problem with you shooting an animal attacking you. Its tragic, but by that point its not really avoidable.
The issue most of us have is the “defense against people” where lines get drawn, the problem is how inconsistent that line is. Im in the camp where survival is fine, and sport is conditionally ok, but outside that there are no ethical reasons to persue gun ownership, but others will say collections, historic preservation, or self defense are valid reasons. Culture has a lot to do with it, some places handle it well, like Switzerland, but the elephant in the room is America and their, I would argue very unhealthy, relationship with guns.
Then you’re privileged.
No, only some are and even then it’s not broadly accurate, it’s closer to Anthropomorphism.
Weapons are designed from the ground up to kill animals. From birdshot 10g shotgun to bolt action plastic tip single shot rifle.
Assault rifles are a category designed primarily to kill humans
Most people don’t seem to realize the perfect deer rifle is the perfect human rifle.
Hahaha
(white tail, mule appropriate cartridges in particular)
Riigght. So it’s not about guns any more, it’s “cartridges”.
oh ffs. do you not know what a cartridge is, or its relationship to cylinder bore?
So you dont know what a gun is.
I said “cartriddge” because the bullet from a .223 and a .22 are very fucking similar in diameter, but i wouldn;t go deer hunting with a .22. So what the fuck is your point.
Killing animals is pretty shitty as well though
Hunters hunt overpopulated animals. Humans before us killed off most predators, leaving us with the duty of filling the roles of predators to control prep populations.
Hunting is necessary, unless you want lions, bears, and wolves in your backyard, or else thousands of deer eating crops and crossing the highways.
Overpopulated? What kind of wank stain talk is this?
White rhinos? Oh sorry we killed all those.
Gun fanatics always talk about stopping an evil government but we clearly see they have no intention of doing that, instead I just see them used to slaughter innocent people on a regular basis.
That’s just power fantasy, it doesn’t matter who is on the receiving end as long as they are the good guys
But to be clear I talk about some very specific breed. You can have a gun and not be a nutjob. It isn’t that rare though for someone to have this righteous fantasy
I had a rabid raccoon on my farm a little while ago. What do you suggest is the best way to handle that situation?
Kill the poor thing quickly and painless.
But you do not need an assault rifle with incendiary ammunition for that. You just use a tool for the job. You do not glaze over your remington or what have you.
You use it and then close it up. Nice. It has served for something beneficial. Once in a blue moon
I’m sure if he asks politely it’ll just keel over dead for him.
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about lol
I didn’t use an assualt rifle or incendiary ammunition. How do you suggest I kill it quickly and painless while protecting myself from a possible bite?
Do you hate guns and believe they are designed from the ground up to kill? Or do you think it’s a beneficial tool that has its uses? You’re giving me mixed messages here with the title of your post. It’s okay to dislike gun culture and also think guns have their uses.
I hate guns because they are there just to kill things. I do not take pleasure in killing things. I would still own a gun if I had to
It’s simple as that
I don’t take pleasure in euthanizing animals either. Its expected to hate killing but it’s not the gun’s fault that these jobs need to be done.
Do you hate archery as a sport? Because those things were invented and designed purely for killing people too.
You do not see people with bows going around and one shooting people cmon. Let us be serious please
So do hate the intention of the design or do you hate that they are sometimes misued? You said you hated guns because they were designed to kill people.
It’s about efficiency and power difference. Not everything is black and white, despite your attempts
I am actually with this. I’ve tried so hard to think of what purpose a gun has and the primary reason for it’s invention was to make killing people easier. As it was invented in time of war. Every other reason we’ve found a gun useful for, are just for some impracticality that we decided to go with when the simpler option isn’t available. But the bottom line still remains the same - the gun was made for making killing easier and it has been proven time and time again.
How do you even find this post but yes I don’t think it changed for me. When I grab a pistol the weight and precision is ominous and solemn. I know that it is specifically made to produce spills of blood and brain on the floor in split seconds. This in turn makes it impossible to lightheartedly enjoy or have fun handling it, cracking jokes left and right with beer and bbq.
Counterpoint:
Okay but this is a movie. If you aren’t below certain age you do not mistake this with reality
It’s not that such situations never happened but they weren’t anywhere as
inglorious and cool. Yeah some brain went on the walls. Someone shat themselves in pre death agony uttering incredible smell, someone went deaf from shooting in a small room and got killed right after. It’s just not that coolThere are sooo many cool things why killing each other must be the stuff some ppl find so exciting. It happens and it’s messy and grim. There’s nothing exciting about our innards. It’s fucking disgusting and revolting even
Oh sure, violence is awful, traumatizing and cruel.
But if you think that you must be a child to mistake violence with reality, than I’d say that you are actually the one with the priveleged, childlike view of the world.
I agree that guns should not be fetishized, that that is a dangerous sign of immaturity, but guns are a useful and prevalent tool.
You can’t just wish them out of existence.
Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.
- Karl Marx
When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun?
- Paul Simonom
I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming.
- Luigi Mangione
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
- John F. Kennedy
Politcal power grows from the barrel of a gun.
- Mao Tzetung
Yes. This is also nutty and I don’t think you can manage to change my mind. All the violent lemmings are a creepy. You are disturbing.
Even my country which struggled with communism for years, freed itself from the red oppression not by violence but by peaceful negotiations after mass worker strikes.
I know you lot. You pretend to want to solve problems but deep inside you just want to kill someone and get away with it. I have no respect for you.
I don’t even own a gun, but uh ok?
I’ve worked at non profits to house the homeless, for years. Could have made a lot more money in a corporate job, but I eschewed that in favor of doing actual good in the world.
I’ve been homeless, been robbed and beaten by people with guns, dodged a drive by shooting by 20 or 30 feet, been held against my will, without charges, by armed agents of the state for simply existing while honeless, been held captive by a madman and beaten for a week straight.
I have firearms training, because I grew up around guns, but I’ve never owned a gun.
I have martial arts training, and I’ve only ever used it to defend myself and others; never once have I instigated a random assault, but I’ve broken up a few.
My country is the most armed country on the planet, and it’s currently undergoing a fascist coup.
But please, do go on about the revolution your parents had, and the comfy, detached from reality moral structure its allowed you develop.
Tell the Ukranians defending their country how guns are evil and they should just roll over and accept assimilation.
Tell the Palestinians to stop resisting and just allow themselves, their people, to be wiped off the face of the earth.
Meanwhile, leftist demonstrations in my country have been terrorized by openly armed right wing militias and terrorists for years, been black bagged and arrested by armed secret police.
But I’m sure you’re quite fine telling victims of armed violence that they’re actually the guilty ones for pointing out the basic underlying fact that all politics and laws are only as meaningful as the monopoly on violence that enforces them, and that guns are the most common and direct tool in that trade.
Sorry but your experiences are meaningless here. It’s the basic fundamental thing not some comfort. Wherever you are advocating for violence, you will meet me opposing you.
I will always be there.
How you gonna oppose them lol
Just like I do it now. Whenever somebody advocates for some violent idea I will always voice my opposition without hesitation even if that ruins the jolly revolution mood.
Kill only in your name alone and face the consequences but if you kill in the name of some noble idea then you ruin it and corrupt it. You are no part of whatever good you think you are.
You and I will never meet.
EDIT: I gave you my personal experiences because you made a personal claim about me, that I am violent, that I want to kill someone.
Not because its relevant to the larger idea about guns.
You made it personal, you became judgemental, and gaslit met.
Yeah, you and I will never meet, I’ve suffered knowing far too many manipulative, sanctimonious gaslighters in my life.
Hope all your friends enjoy you victim-blaming them as much as I have.
You will meet hundreds like me. Not quite me but just like me. And you will keep meeting them and they will say exactly same thing. They are me and you will meet me in each of them.
It’s sad to see this is an unpopular opinion (context from the community rules: if you agree that the opinion is unpopular give it an arrow up. If it’s something that’s widely accepted, give it an arrow down.)
I agree, but I doubt the majority ever will.
By majority, do you mean the people in the US? If not, please ignore the rest of this comment. People from US in the fediverse and on corporate social media sometimes assume everyone on earth lives in the US. Related post: https://fe.disroot.org/@DavidB@firefish.social/posts/AZRx7njZJE1vq6fHE0
I’m not american. I don’t know what nationality has to do with my statement.
Have I disturbed the peace of this community
They’re tools designed specifically for killing, not just for killing humans.
The people who take umbrage at that distinction are an actual problem.
That’s not an unpopular opinion IMO.
I, on the other hand, am fascinated not just by guns but by weapons (and other military technology) from throughout history. Weapons, as products of human ingenuity, are unusual in the sense that they function in direct opposition to the ingenuity of other humans. It’s a very high-stakes competition.
How many missile defence systems do you own?
You can find something interesting without needing to own it.
It’s a very American viewpoint. Many countries in Europe have high gun ownership and manage to do so without murdering eachother.
Many countries in Europe have high gun ownership and manage to do so without murdering [each other].
But can we agree that the not killing is a by-product of not using the gun, instead of using the gun? To re-phrase, the more the gun is used to shoot at something, the higher the chance of something getting hit?
Accidents happen, there’s no denying that, but that applies to literally everything that exists. Not setting your house on fire is a byproduct of not using candles, doesn’t mean their purpose is arson.
I personally have zero desire to hurt or kill anyone, human or animal (so much so I deliberately avoided the mandatory military conscription of Finland) but I really like target shooting. Most of the time I do it with air pistols/rifles because I can use them on my back yard, but the bows, crossbows and firearms I own are strictly for that exact same purpose as well.
That is a very American excuse. The US has 120 guns per 100 people, Europe’s highest, Serbia, which had a literal civil war not 2 decades ago, has 40.
The US has a gun problem.
I actually know a few Serbs personally and the 40 guns per 100 people definitely refers to legally acquired and nationally registered guns. And doesn’t include the Kalashnikovs picked up after the war and kept by people’s grandmother’s.
Honestly I don’t even see guns as a terribly effective method of mass murder. If I were to want to take out a large number of people, I’d use a Timothy McVeigh style truck bomb. Fertiliser and diesel are comparatively cheap in any country. Or you know I could just grab a kitchen knife and probably take out around a fair number of people.
The difference is that Americans have a hard-on for violence. America has a serious mental health problem. You just elected litteral fascists to the Whitehouse to stop trans girls from taking a shit in a public bathroom, so don’t pretend that y’all are mentally healthy.
I love guns. My reasons are my own.
Thanks for your valuable input
What I have a problem understanding is that the native Americans were able to hunt without firearms. They literally used sharpened stones and sticks on horseback. Yet, gun enthusiasts will swear up and down they need guns for “hunting.” I get using new tech to make a job easier, but your life isn’t dependant on the kill anymore. If it was truly “for the hunt,” then wouldn’t you want to honor the hunt the way your ancestors did? I know a few bow hunters and I have mad respect for them, because bow hunting needs a high level of tracking skills as well (not to say rifle hunting doesn’t but a peice of metal being propelled by an explosion has a bigger punch than a piece of metal being propelled by a pulled bow string, thus a bigger damage output.) I get guns are fun but if your going to hunt, honor the hunt. The buck doesn’t have new upgraded antlers or legs.
You don’t know shit about their hunting practises. They didn’t have horses. they had ballistic spear chuckers, dogs, and various ways to kill large animals that weren’t your racist bullshit implications.
I guess I’m the opposite then - I love guns, yet I probably wouldn’t get one even if I could. I definitely wouldn’t carry one. It’s too easy to make hasty, irreversible decisions with a firearm.
Carrying a gun means that every altercation has the potential to become life-threatening. I wouldn’t want to end up in a brawl while armed and risk having my own weapon used against me if I got overpowered. That’s something cops, for example, have to constantly be aware of.
Funny thing about carrying, at least for the sane among us, it makes one hyper-aware of one’s environment. Knowing that if you fuck up it could end with killing someone really, really, makes you less likely to take risks. Don’t know if I’m clear there. You look for danger so you can stay the hell away from it.
I have worked in Accident & Emergency in England and in an ER in America. Guns are a curse.
You all need to see the deserted dead body of a 15 year old laying on the table after an unsuccessful resuscitation attempt. A baby who has been shot through, or the crowds of relatives helplessly sobbing in the streets outside the emergency room.
Every gun owner thinks they are a responsible gun owner until they arent. Its simply not possible to be 100% safe 100% of the time. That’s not a thing that humans do.
And no. There are nowhere near as many knife deaths in England.
I never saw a fatal stabbing in the UK, but I’ve seen many in America. The numbers are insignificant when compared to gun accidents and murders.
All “tools” that kill this many people should absolutely be regulated.
Americans never shut up about freedom, but don’t pay attention to the freedom taken away simply by the threat that anyone around you could be carrying a gun. You’re all just used to it being your way. It’s so nice not to have to consider the possibility. The american way is like spending your lives with the sword of Damocles dangling over your heads. That’s your freedom.
Oh look, inner city bullshit stereotypes by some moron blathering about England in the later half. Fuck you and everything about you.
Haha. What a well composed rebuttal
you a liar too. worked in the ER and never saw a fatal stabbing. You work there a week?
Really dude?
Yes really,
You know, the one person who is MOST aware that you’re stupid and wrong is me.
“I’m a trucker that has never driven on a paved road” You, that’s what you sound like,
