Volkswagen is trying to implement a comprehensive cost-cutting programme with up to 100,000 job losses, double the amount previously planned, by 2030 and the potential contraction or closure of several plants.

  • robomuffin79@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    But this is capitalism. If German manufacturers can’t compete, they should shut down. Survival of the fittest and free-markets etc etc. there will be job losses but the German people should ask their leaders why that happened

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      A fair argument can be made that the Chinese government considers EV an imperative and interferes and subsidizes, so it’s not fully free market. Thus any country with industry competing with China needs to decide if they care and if they care, how to respond to advantage conferred by China government policies. Whether that’s similar incentives for their domestic industry and/or tariffs to try to level the playing field.

      • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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        3 days ago

        That’s only a “fair” argument to make if one assumes that orthodox neoliberal policies such as the EU’s ban on state aid is somehow the universal ethical norm. Will, they aren’t.

        If we made neoliberalism our dogma and the Chinese are outcompeting us maybe our dogma is fucking wrong.

        • jj4211@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          There’s a reason I explicitly mentioned state aid as an option. So it’s a fair argument because currently they are disadvantaged. Advocating for equivalent state aid wild be on the table

          • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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            3 days ago

            I reject the framing. It is us Europeans that chose to be “disadvantaged” because we made the political choice to trust in the mumbo jumbo of neoliberal economics, because we thought we were going to be “advantaged” by the invisible hand of the market gods. We made a bad policy choice. Instead of calling it a “disadvantage”, our political institutions should do their own self-criticism.

            • jj4211@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              Ok, I find this very bizarre. You lament that neoliberal economics is bad but should not be considered disadvantaged?

      • kossa@feddit.org
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        4 days ago

        Volkswagen was a state funded company until the sixties ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

        New factories, battery research and stuff like that are heavily subsidized for German car makers as well.

        Maybe China is subsidizing more, but maybe that only speaks for sound economic decisions in China, like

        A. they have the money, apparently

        B. they subsidize future technologies instead of fabulating about e-fuels and whatnot.

        • madnificent@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Volkswagen gets a lot of bad rep but as I understand it, it’s not a horrible company. They have a very strong worker union. To my understanding they can’t close a factory in Germany without a union’s approval. That in itself is a huge handicap over BYD where workers get far fewer rights.

          Volkswagen used to be one of the largest exporters from the EU. If I were a liberal foreign entity then I’d love for some dirt to stick to that. They have continued to focus on keeping their German workforce employed rather than producing everything overseas though they were proud to announce that they could do a full car development and production cycle in China a few years back so things do change.

          Not that I care too much for the brand but I find it very odd how Volkswagen is getting so much hate.

          If we want a closer apples to apples comparison, we should at least demand that our imports have been produced under the same environmental and workplace standards as we have here or better.

          • kossa@feddit.org
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            3 days ago

            it’s not a horrible company

            😅. It was literally started by Hitler himself.

            “But that was a long time ago”…yeah, well. Then give BYD some ~50ish years, by then BYD might be as righteous as Volkswagen is now…cough Dieselgate, cough.

      • timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works
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        5 days ago

        Article doesn’t really point to Chinese vehicles being the primary reason though- it’s that demand is down for cars in Europe.

        That said, it’s not really free market capitalist anyway for China to heavily subsidize EV production.

        • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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          4 days ago

          Chinese car makers aren’t really more subsidized than Europeans and US. Actually we’re only seeing the brands that survived the internal competition of the Chinese car market, where a ton of brands failed and died.

          What we’re seeing are the brands that survived that competition through extreme optimization, at a level no other car manufacturer had to reach before. And they did that in a growing market of 1.5 billion people.

          Why should they struggle when competing with an aging industry with aging production modes that only address ~600m people? Especially when those companies offer objectively worse products at worse prices?

        • Ilixtze@lemmy.ml
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          4 days ago

          Lol you speak as if teslas haven’t been heavily subsidized for decades. The difference is that chinese ev’s are cheaper and deliver good quality.