If it’s not POSIX, it’s POS
macOS is UNIX, certified UNIX actually.
But I mean, if someone had the merest impression of macOS and was very familiar with Linux and never bothered to look any further then I’d understand. Maybe they only played around with macOS a little and saw the terminal app had bash and most all the familiar tools as on Linux. It’s not hard to see why they might’ve thought it’s Linux based.
Isnt
zshthe default macos shell?It is now, but it was
bashbefore.But in any case once you start doing anything remotely advanced you’ll find the individual command line utilities are wildly different between macOS and Linux. They seem (are?) much closer to FreeBSD than GNU utilities.
Closer, maybe. Similar, not.
Yeah, it’s always fun to find out that a standard looking util on osx actually requires weird args and syntax.
I’m mostly used to it now. Though
-ris supported in macOS’rmcommand I still prefer-Rand use it even on Linux where I believe-ris the preferred argument.
Yea, because Apple is allergic to GPL
Look I love GPL to death but I’m not going to pretend that every OS vendor on the planet needs to give away everything for free.
You can like two things at once, and in my case I love my walled garden, commercial OS for end-user stuff as well as Linux for networking gear and servers. I used desktop Linux for awhile but at the end of the day I like things like Airdrop, AirPlay and the seamlessness of it all.
Honestly, I like BSD operating systems more so than Linux ones despite the licensing arrangements. Linux is open as hell (obviously) but it’s super disorganized. I haven’t found a package manager I like as much as
pkg(especially installing binary packages and compiled from source packages side by side with shared libraries).Looking forward to being downvoted to hell for having a differing view of Linux than all the recent Windows converts.
It has been since 2019 but before that it was bash.
I just got around to switching last month
They switched to bash in 2003 with Mac OS X 10.3; before that it was tcsh.
I liked tcsh. It was my favourite shell.
why past tense?
I think 10% of people believe nearly anything. It’s basically the rounding error for a survey.
Honestly, if you had asked me 10 minutes ago “Is MacOS based on Linux?” I would have gotten it wrong. But if you asked “Is MacOS based on UNIX or Linux?” I would have gotten it right.
macOS is a certified UNIX, sure, but according to some 2002 specification, and if you modify your system in such matter that it will be in nearly broken state.
What I find more shocking about this assertion is that I have no facts to back it up, but I believe it, and I’m not surprised.
Of course someone here has a link to some actual research … right?
What are you looking for?
Actually, what OP is referring to should be called GNU/Linux. Here’s a link to do some more research https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html
Is apple free? No? Then it’s either violating the GNU license or it is not based on it
I’m familiar with Linux, having used it daily since 1999.
I’m referring to the research about tech workers thinking that MacOS is based on Linux.
Since OP is sharing it, op should back it up, not you
Sillies! It’s based on GNU!
GNU/MacOS/TimApple/Proprietary/Unix Which is all apart of the SystemD Operating system
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as GNU, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. GNU is not an operating system unto itself, but rather a gathering of the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components that together with a Linux kernel comprise a full OS as defined by POSIX.
(Finally it’s the other way around 😆)
Achemm…
GNU Linux
Stop posting Lunduke stuff. This dude sucks and has a long history of sucking.
I’ve come across this person’s face randomly but know nothing about them. Could you help the lazy and tell me why he sucks?
Some dude explained below.
Um…phrasing!
Are we still doing phrasing?
They share some inspiration. Same with Linux/Unix confusion.
About 15 minutes in a terminal trying to do Linux’y things are you get completely disillusioned.
I wish it was then it may make sense. Every time I use the MacOS terminal. It’s like an uncanny valley so similar but the more you look the more horrific it becomes. I can’t even say it’s Unix is the problem as freebsd makes complete sense.
Thanks for the response. I’m ignorant in this topic. How is MacOS horrific?
For one, some of the coreutils are weird. They aren’t BSD coreutils, but they’re not GNU coreutils either. They’re like an old version of BSD coreutils with some GNU features added.
Huh. That’s interesting. Are the MacOS coreutils incapable or not user-friendly in some way? Or is it more that they’re too different for people who know GNU and BSD coreutils?
I also wonder if their coreutils are open source. I quickly tried searching here but couldn’t find an answer https://opensource.apple.com/releases/
I didn’t know that. When I was searching for a new computer last month, I considered a Macbook because I liked BSD utilities more. I ended up buying a Thinkpad T14 and booting Chimera Linux(actually uses BSD utilities) on it.
macOS may not be FreeBSD, but it definitely is a BSD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix#/media/File:Unix_history-simple.svg
Also some part of NetBSD
Whatever else it may be, macos most certainly Is Unix unfortunately
Yeah it’s Unix but all the paths and utilities are all out of wack from what I’m used to on freebsd and Linux distros
Anything can be Unix if you’re willing to pay for the certification.
Lunduke sucks. Let’s have some Judeposting instead
who even cares
Unix, Linux, whats the diff? Its all the same.
<ducks and runs>
GET HIM
<Looney Tunes running away in place noises>
I love the idea of licensing comments XD
You’re probably the only one, but thank you for saying that. 🙂
why though?
Nah, I think it’s neat as well. Lemmy would be more boring if no user had idiosyncrasies.
Hell, I’ve even tagged you with “CC BY-NC-SA 4.0” in my Lemmy client - which means I will confront you if you ever stop doing it.
Nah, I think it’s neat as well. Lemmy would be more boring if no user had idiosyncrasies.
Kind of a sad state of affairs for us all, that wanting to license your own content would be considered an idiosyncrasy, but I get what you were trying to say. 🙂
Hell, I’ve even tagged you with “CC BY-NC-SA 4.0” in my Lemmy client -
Well I’m not the first to use it, I learned to use it here from someone else, but open source licensing notoriety is something I can live with. 😜
which means I will confront you if you ever stop doing it.
Honestly it would be me just leaving Lemmy (again) if the harassment gets to be too much (Edit: Example: https://lemmy.world/comment/15320340).
But I’d rather be here than Reddit, even with the lesser moderation that happens here.
I do appreciate your support, thank you. 👍
Does the lack of licensing in this comment mean it’s okay to steal?
Nope, the opposite: in the absence of an explicit license, the default is “all rights reserved.”
I don’t think just thanking someone is real content. /shrug
But answering someone who thinks they are being funny or annoying, by explaining things to them, would be considered content by me.
I kind of suspected it might be something like that, but it was a genuine query that, yes, was intended to be mildly humorous. I don’t intentionally annoy except maybe my wife.
Your indirect accusation made me smirk, but as far as I’ve noticed you’re the only one who does this without doing it on every comment, which seemed interesting enough to observe.
Yeah, I tend to push back a bit, as I wish people would discuss the subject at hand that the comment by me was made about, and not the license that I used in my comment.
Ah. Well, I have questions or comments I could make about the license. However, while I feel passionately about Unix and Linux and OSS in general, I don’t think I have anything useful or interesting to add to the thread that hasn’t already been said.
I wish you luck both with finding engaging conversation and with your licensing.
The return of the forum signatures, whether you like it or not.
Mines going to be an ad from NordVPN and maybe Apex Legends? I wonder what’s their rate like? 🤷♂️
You are not new to lemmy, it says you registered a year ago, but is this the first time you meet a comment with license info? You are one of today’s lucky 10000.
I’ve seen this on multiple users, usually it’s some anti ai license. Like the laws stopped facebook from torrenting copyrighted books, an anti ai license will stop the next ai startup scraping the fediverse.
I’m only aware of myself, and the one other person who I learned to do this from, on Lemmy. That was tenish months ago, but still.
I haven’t seen anyone else, even the other person I mentioned previously, since having returned to Lemmy recently.
Be nice if you were right, but I haven’t seen it really.
They probably are thinking of the FreeBSD stuff in macOS.
yeah right, i thought macos/ios started with a fork of one of the BSDs, which might get confused with linux
That license does nothing.
Your comments aren’t licensed because you put something in them. It’s stopping nothing. Licensing is an agreement, and requires parties to consent. You don’t just magically force licenses onto people.
If this was real I could license my comments where if you read them, you owe me 10k.
This is the digital equivalent of sovereign citizens.
So, if I go to a library, pick a book and start reading it, I am then free to completely copy it because I didn’t agree to any licensing?
You agreed to the ToS given by the library.
Hence why you have to get a library card to check out a book.
Okay, and if I find the book on the street?
No, it doesn’t matter if the book is at a library or on my friend’s bookshelf, copyright law is literally the right to copy the thing. So if I make an illegal copy, I’m breaking copyright law. The “ToS” I’ve “agreed” to is the law of the country I’m in.
woosh
~This comment is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0~
In case you want your license declaration to look the same as mine (instead of just being a quote), you can copy and paste in the following text …
[~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/legalcode.en)Why all the tilde symbols? That’s what makes it quite distracting and hard to read for me tbh.
Why all the tilde symbols? That’s what makes it quite distracting and hard to read for me tbh.
I’m using the Lemmy.World formatting (https://join-lemmy.org/docs/users/02-media.html). I’m subscripting the text/link to make it smaller/footer.
It sounds like your client is not supporting that. You should speak with the devs of your client about that. Here’s the actual formatting string being used by me…
[~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/legalcode.en)I am using eternity. There, it’s just a link but every word is surrounded by ~.
Unfortunately, I don’t think lemmy.world is authoritative in regards to formatting and Lemmy itself – iirc – does not suggest formatting guidelines.
Spoiler formatting is also a pain because of that :/
It looks like the Eternity client doesn’t support subscript?
Don’t know what to say, my account is on Lemmy.World, and that’s their instructions on how to format one’s comments. /shrug
In the past (tenish months ago) I heard this same issue, and I tried removing the subscripting, which made the footer text the same size of the rest of the text, and then I was getting people complaining about my footer text being too large for a footer. My hope was that ten months later, all clients would support subscript fonts/text.
Honestly, at this point I’d suggest you talk to the devs of your client, to support subscript font/text.
That license does nothing.
It makes me feel good. That’s something.
I am getting annoyed on your behalf lol. Why do people feel the need to screech at others doing something harmless when they could just shut up and ignore it is beyond me. Not a fair comparison but it does feel like republicans shouting at trans people.
Thanks, appreciate the support!
It’s amazing how bent out of shape some people get about this, both currently, as well as about tenish months ago when I last was on Lemmy (check out my comment history from that time period if you really want to get annoyed).
I got to imagine that its people who want to farm the comments for their LLMs training, that are trying to prevent the popular usage of people licensing their content.
And I’m assuming just having “all content licesed under the CC BY-NC-SA 4.0” in your bio wouldn’t work?
And I’m assuming just having “all content licesed under the CC BY-NC-SA 4.0” in your bio wouldn’t work?
I’m not sure if I understand your question.
I believe it does work. Or at least it should, and I shouldn’t give up my right to license my own content just because enforcement of laws is lax.
Well, scrapers probably would ignore it.
Honestly I don’t believe it would help myself but who am I to tell you what to do. As someone else mentioned, it’s probably people who simply have to correct others when they don’t share the option. Doubt it would be anything like being in support of LLMs, probably the opposite.
Honestly I don’t believe it would help myself
It would help if the companies that are training their LLMs honor content creators licenses. If they ignore the law in that, then it would in theory need to be policed.
In either case, its a quick copy/paste on my part, so /shrug.
As someone else mentioned, it’s probably people who simply have to correct others when they don’t share the option. Doubt it would be anything like being in support of LLMs, probably the opposite.
I don’t know. It would behoove those who need our content to train their LLMs to intimidate/redirect people away from licensing their content. And I can’t imagine regular people getting so caught up to spend so much time on this issue. If you look through my comment history, starting 9-10 months ago, and see how many replies I’ve gotten, and even how posts talk about this issue (https://lemmy.world/post/14942506), I can’t imagine a single link would cause all of that. Theres got to be something more to it than that.
I was around when that was an active topic back then so I am aware. It’s just I don’t trust any or most companies to respect it anyway. Also as someone else suggested, look into automation lol, I thought you had something like an email signature that gets added automatically.
In either case, its a quick copy/paste on my part, so /shrug.
I was thinking “okay this somewhat unconventional but whatever” until I read this. Use greasemonkey or something for the love of Christ!
I feel like it somehow relates to Cunningham’s Law but i can’t figure out how to articulate it.
Can’t argue with that. I’m glad you’ve found something that you enjoy.
Well, I’d enjoy it more if people (in general) stopped bothering me about using a license for my content, than I actually do using a license for my content. 😜
Do you spend a lot of time arguing with people over it?
Do you spend a lot of time arguing with people over it?
Allot more than I wish, I really try not to. Even today, I keep asking people to not rehash it, and lets just talk about the topic my comment was posted in. But for some strange reason people just won’t let it go, and push to talk about it.
Well like it or not, your footer is just a part of your comments, and so people are invited to respond however they wish when you post it on lemmy. If you don’t like people making the same replies, you can simply stop posting the same content in every comment.
Well like it or not, your footer is just a part of your comments, and so people are invited to respond however they wish when you post it on lemmy.
That logic doesn’t track though, as that content is just a footer, it is not the actual content of what’s being discussed in the post, which is what people should be responding to.
It would be the same as if for every comment I made on a subject it opposed people instead started asking me questions about my username, and not discussing the subject of the post.
If you don’t like people making the same replies, you can simply stop posting the same content in every comment.
You really shouldn’t be “blaming the victim” on this one.
Even if what you said previously is true, when a person has been directed to a location where an answer to their question has already been given, and they refuse to do so, but instead continue to badger the person directly, that’s detrimental to the conversation being had (by derailing it), as well as I would argue to Lemmy itself. And if done enough times on purpose could be considered harassment.
People should not be able to dictate what other people put in their comments, and should definitely not harass them continuously over what they have in their comments.
I don’t think it’s equivalent to sovereign citizens. OP is the author of their comment and therefore has the copyrights. As the author one can license their work as all rights reserved or other permissive licenses.
OP chooses to license their work as Creative Commons.
They’re not forcing you to accept the license, it’s your local government that enforces copyright.
The reason why this might work on Lemmy but not on corporate Social media is that corporate social media often have terms of service that require you to give them ownership/rights/etc. Lemmy has no such ToC.
This would vary by instance. I don’t see that lemmy.world specifies the terms for user content, which really should be fixed.
It’s a hard problem in the fediverse. It makes for a ticking time bomb of an issue. Imagine I am on a “everything is your own, we don’t sell your stuff” instance while another instance just copy pasted metas ToS. By posting a response to my instance, which then in turn is federated to the meta style instance I create something hard to solve. I can foresee other issues too.
I see your point. I just think it’s a difficult problem.
The reason why this might work on Lemmy but not on corporate Social media is that corporate social media often have terms of service that require you to give them ownership/rights/etc. Lemmy has no such ToC.
Actually, Safe Harbor laws would encompass social media sites as well, so it would work there as well.
Either corporations own the content you post and are responsible for it, or they just host your content you post that you own and are immune from harm for the content. The law is currently the latter, and not the former.
Also, law trumps ToS’s.
I don’t think the ToS approach would be invalidated here via your Safe Harbor fork theory.
The ToS could state something like “you give us a worldwide perpetual right to use your content in any way we want including granting this right to whom we designate”
You still own your content but by having an account you agree to the ToS that lets them do what they want.
They just host it and are safe.
TOS can’t change Law, can’t strip away rights that you have.
Law always trumps TOS.
In fact, if a company tries to via their TOS they are opening themselves up for big risks/lawsuits, as they are trying to gain ownership of your content, voiding their Safe Harbor law protections.
They can’t have it both ways, thats not how the Law works. Either they have the protection, or they own the content.
That license does nothing.
Especially since the comment itself in question is so short that it would be public domain in practically every jurisdiction.
I’m not that surprised, a lot of people around me dot have a clear picture of what is the relationship between MacOS, Linux and Unix is. So I suppose some of them would guess that Linux is a modern fork of Unix and MacOS based on Unix.
I know a guy who worked on Unix in the '80s and he is very clear that Linux / MacOS are just Unix.
Yes but no. Some folks are purists and feel that the actual code must derive from the original BSD/SysV code.
I remember a podcast I used to listen to a long time ago that argued that MS should just make a fork of the Linux kernel and just make the gui work like Windows. Better security and stability, and huge increase in user base with all the normal Linux users seeing it as viable alternative. I thought it was a brilliant idea. Well except Microsoft would likely have figured a way to kill Linux from the inside.
Except for the part where decades’ worth of software no longer runs on Windows.
Hide WINE in the box
Boxed WINE? Disgusting
Try to run old soft on windows though😓
Right, because Linux definitely can’t run Windows software. Don’t check.
Seriously, Microsoft’s absurd level of commitment to backwards compatibility is the entire reason Windows has such staying power. I had to fuck around with things to get a Linux port of a ten year old game running without issues, and it was even the Steam version, but Windows will install and run most twenty year old games right off of the original CD without the user having to do anything at all.
That compatability has been dropping recently, especially for games. Most of my CD games need extra libraries to run now, if they work at all.
I hear this a lot but in production I still see xp/win 7 era PC’s all the time due to comparability issues (half the time still online too :/ )
Maybe its just absurd support for big spenders like the US military?
Seems like the small companies are mostly getting burned by gambling on MS
That is the literal opposite of what the world needs.
Windows isn’t a bad OS from a purely technical perspective. If Windows were released as FOSS, I would switch to Windows without hesitation.
The full Microsoft XP source code was leaked and is available for anyone on GitHub; not the same, I know, but it’s atleast NT based. I’ve just always wondered why a community never formed to fork it
Because it’s not legal and no one’s going to develop software for XP. Someone could make and sell security patches for it, but the type of person who still runs XP either doesn’t care enough to buy security patches or it’s running some hardware that isn’t connected to the internet.
There are exactly two games released in the past few years that have XP support, but that was more a flex on the part of the developer then catering to the market. HROT and Zortch are those games if you’re curious.
Are you sure it’s not bad from a technical perspective? I saw a story from a former programmer talking about how changes would be made the to the interface in the new settings app that’s trying to replace control panel and the shit was like a horror story.
maybe, but there are also things it arguably does better than Linux, e.g. user access control
(If you can still find this story, I’d be very interested in it, please do link to it here.)
Thank you arse assassin
You could keep the kernel tho while changing the gui
The windows kernel isn’t all that great, particularly in the realm of memory security or scheduling.
You know, to each their own. Question is really whether windows maintaining a closed source kernel even makes sense from a maintenance burden perspective when it really doesn’t give them much money in return. (Most of their money in 2025 comes from cloud services, not operating systems)
Rumors (Yes, just rumors, I know) have it that MS is working on a shim to be able to just use the Linux kernel under the hood. That’s what spawned WSL. It is a side effect of the work to get the shim between the Win64 userland and Linux kernel. The shim will probably be a temporary thing, until all the ABIs are done.
Mostly because Microsoft tries to maintain backwards compatibility to ridiculous extents, and their customers grew accustomed to it so they kinda rely on it, no ?
Surely it’s less work to maintain security patches for a few prior versions of windows than it is to indefinitely maintain backwards compatibility
Sure, and for home users the backwards compatibility feature only really comes up for people into retro-gaming, but a significant portion of their customer base is government agencies that haven’t updated their software since the '90s. The old hardware is dying, so they need new stuff, and that means something with a new OS to run it, but it also needs to be able to run an ancient program that can only be replaced if some some seventy-something who calls every console a Nintendo can be made to understand why software older than their grandkids isn’t the best thing to have, and they might need to introduce and pass a bill to get it done, not to mention budgeting to commission a company to code the replacement.
I mean, they do until they don’t. They eventually retired 16 bit subsystem, and they are gungho on TPM now. They have always had EOL dates for old OS’s too. I’m not entirely sure why they do what they do, I suspect they are too large and unwieldy to operate as an entity with a unified vision.
yeah I know, far from production-ready though
That is the fun part 😏
I had forgotten about this!! I’ll have to start up a VM this morning to check it out.
For those who don’t have the spare time 🤭
Oh… 👀
