I typed into Google “potatoes pressure cooker” to get a reminder of how long to cook them. The AI told me, and correctly said that I should use the steamer sieve, but also told me to salt the water. The water that would be under the potatoes and that wouldn’t touch them.
I asked why, and the AI said that little splashes of salt water from the boiling would land on the surface of the potatoes and salt them gently, that the salt would increase the boiling temperature, and that the vapour would be aromatic.
I pointed out that the amount of salt landing on the surface of the potatoes would be negligible, that the vapour is distilled water in gas form, and that the increase in boiling temperature from salting the water is less than 1°C. The AI said, oh yeah, you’re right on all counts. Don’t salt the water.
What it has been doing was exactly what an LLM does. It gave me the received wisdom from the internet.
That aligns with what Cory Doctorow was saying here, namely that all the AI successes were from people who already knew what they were doing and could use the AI as a tool. Not from people who had no clue and just let AI do the job.
I use AI as a writing tool, not as a substitute for authorship.
The ideas, intent, perspective, and final judgment are mine. I decide what I want to say, what belongs in the piece, what does not, and whether the finished version accurately represents me. AI may help me organize my thoughts, clarify a sentence, improve the flow, or find wording that better expresses what I already mean. That is not fundamentally different from working with an editor, dictating to a transcriber, or revising a draft after receiving feedback.
What matters is that I review the final work, approve it, and put my name on it. By doing that, I take responsibility for every sentence. If the writing is thoughtful, accurate, and effective, I am responsible for those choices. If it is careless, misleading, generic, or full of slop, that is also my responsibility. Blaming the tool would be an attempt to avoid accountability.
AI does not decide what I believe. It does not decide what I am willing to defend. It does not decide what I publish under my name. I do.
The tool may assist with the writing process, but the authorship comes from intention, judgment, selection, revision, and responsibility. The final work is mine because I chose it, shaped it, approved it, and signed my name to it.
What matters is that I review the final work, approve it, and put my name on it.
that’s just called writing.
That’s my point.
that’s bullshit.
Why?
“authorship is when i make a few edits and sign my name to slop”
if you have willingly handed over your primary writing tool to a machine (for which there is no real meaning, association, appreciation, or delight in words), it is difficult for me to take your commitment to writing or “authorship” seriously.
I did not say “authorship is when I make a few edits and sign my name to slop.” That is not my argument.
My argument is that authorship is grounded in the origination of the ideas and intent, control over what goes into the work, judgment over how those ideas are expressed, endorsement of the final form, and responsibility for the result. Assistance with the linguistic realization does not, by itself, transfer authorship.
You point out that the machine has no meaning, association, appreciation, or delight in the words. I agree. But I do. That is precisely the distinction I am making. The machine does not know what I mean, care whether it represents me, recognize when an analogy fails, or decide whether an argument is worth defending. I am doing those things.
You seem to be defining “writing” as personally generating the initial sequence of words. Maybe that is where we actually disagree. But that definition cannot simply be assumed and then used to prove that I am not writing. Why should authorship reside specifically in first-pass word generation rather than in the thought, intention, judgment, revision, and control that determine what the final words mean?
That is the argument I am interested in having.
i started to read your response, and then i remembered i can’t trust the degree to which you authored it.
i’m not interested.
“I dont write anything but i take credit for everything”
Interesting. When you want to criticize the argument, the words are mine enough to hold me responsible for them. But when I claim responsibility for those same words, suddenly they’re not mine.
“I don’t write anything but take credit for everything” is a straw man. If you disagree, address what I actually said.
I can’t say AI hasn’t changed how I work, it has. Instead of going to Google, vendor docs, or the manpage for whatever code or system I am working on I will ask Claude or Gemini to take a stab at building the initial pass of the code or to look up what some cryptic error code means for me. Or even a better way to write some code that I think can be more concise.
The key I think is I never let it make the final decisions for me. The workflow is always look up information > shows it to me > ask for permission to do the thing > do the thing.
But none of that is “changing everything” in the way executives and the Sam Altman’s of the world want to profess. It is just a sometimes more efficient for me way of doing the same thing I was doing before.
A lot of people I have seen that crow about how they are using AI to change their work lives are just doing really fancy Github workflows and actions to automate something they used to still do manually for some reason. They rarely are doing anything that couldn’t be done with the time to research and test without AI.
memisrized? dont you mean hypnotized, and is in a honeymoon phase.
It’s not lying if they have no idea what they’re talking about and constantly swoon over it.
apparently ai just broke a cryptographic scheme, hawk, that the us government was assessing to standardize.
If AI data centers drastically accelerate us towards a point of no return for climate change, then they will in fact have “changed everything”.
This unfortunately, I’m sick tech broligarchs and billionaire broligarchs and broligarch billionaires ruining everything
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we’re already past the point of no return.
The climate is changing more drastically every year. Hurricanes and typhoons are more severe and the season lasts longer than just a couple years ago. Thunderstorms are more severe, with longer and hotter periods between them and fewer regular rain events. Ocean currents are changing and stopping, meaning the flows that sea life use aren’t there. There is no longer a constant polar ice cap on the north pole.
We will not be staying under 2°C average warming, which was the target back in 2010.
The question isn’t where the point of no return is - we’ve been beyond those the whole time. The question is how bad we want to let it get. Ever fraction of a degree extra warming means worse impacts.
Agree that less than +2°C is unlikely (though not completely impossible). But still, better that than +2.5°C, etc.
Ehhhh, I’m sure it will be fine. 😎
In the near future an ai company will turn on their ASI and ask it what to do about climate change and it will say “first off shut me down, second off eat the rich” and only then will we know we did it
The Author’s Note section of State of Fear, Michael Crichton made numerous predictions that some of which have come true thus far.
It was published in 2004
One of which is that any climate change related legislation implemented by one party, will eventually overturned / reversed when the other party takes power.
Nothing is more inherently political than our shared physical environment, and nothing is more ill served by allegiance to a single political party. Precisely because the environment is shared it cannot be managed by one faction according to its own economic or aesthetic preferences. Sooner or later, the opposing faction will take power, and previous policies will be reversed. Stable management of the environment requires recognition that all preferences have their place: snowmobilers and fly fishermen, dirt bikers and hikers, devel-opers and preservationists. These preferences are at odds, and their incompatibility cannot be avoided. But resolving incompatible goals is a true function of politics
He also predicted that in around 2100, people will be far richer, use lots of energy than ever before, and the global population will be much smaller.
In this way AI reminds me of when Elon was saying we should build a giant vacuum tube instead of a train in California.
They all pretend this AI god that they’re sure will surface will solve the climate crisis partially because they already know what needs to be done and don’t want to do it. They’d rather baffle you with bullshit instead of trying to fix the problem.
I generally respect this guy’s opinion (I probably use the term “enshitification” multiple times a week!), but pretending that “AI” and “Chabot” are interchangeable terms seems wildly reductive, and the subtle presumption that the process of changing is a binary changed/non-changed situation instead of a curve is just ignorant.
If the internet was “turned off” after 4 or so years not much would have changed, either.
I think you’re making a strawman argument here. He isn’t arguing that it’s a binary switch that has failed to throw, he’s arguing that we don’t have compelling evidence that the ends justify the means:
In other words, corporate leadership is starting from the premise that AI has (or will) radically change the business, and they’re working backwards from that premise to find the evidence to support this article of faith.
And this is completely true! Supposedly “data informed” organizations are trying to find a yardstick that shows actual, meaningful improvement in business outcomes from AI. In my own organization we have people touting LOC yet again because “big number”, but anyone who’s ever worked in software can tell you it’s an asinine metric to use as a KPI.
It’s inherently unscientific to start with the answer and work backwards to a satisfactory question. His point that this push is coming from the least knowledgeable of real processes- and more closely resembles religious fervor than business acumen- seems to at least warrant consideration.
The world is full of people who insist that “AI is changing everything” but who – when pressed – have to admit that what they mean is that they’re pretty sure that AI will change everything.
If Donald Trump ordered Big Tech to turn off all of your country’s chatbots tomorrow, nothing would change. Every one of your country’s ministries and corporations would chug on with nary a hitch. Households, too, though perhaps a few of the younger members of those families would have to do their own homework again.
He is definitely pretending that change is either on or off.
Are CEOs jumping the gun on how quickly they adopt AI into workflows? Definitely. However, there’s a big difference between “AI isn’t at a threshold where it is disruptive” and “AI isn’t disruptive”. Or, to belabor the metaphor: CEOs are jumping the gun, but the race is about to start and they’re on the correct track.
A key word in that sentence is “if”, it is a rhetorical example, that’s probably pretty much correct at this point. It’s not a recommended course of action, it’s a declaration that it contrary to crazed hype, it isn’t currently as core to everything as would be befitting the current hype level.
I would argue that the CEOs aren’t on the correct track, they aren’t really in a particularly specific trajectory. I just had a debate with someone on this and their stance was “well in a hundred years do you expect things to be like they are”. My response “I cannot possibly speak to that, but we need to speak to today instead of pretending we know how things will be in a hundred years and pretending they are already at that level”. The “imagine a hundred years from now” by a relative outsider to the tech is dominating CEO mindset, and that’s problematic.
Once the bubble pops, we will almost certainly see a more durable and sane adoption for these technologies. For now, the hype is a problem as it enables some of the worst possible stewards of the technology and favors grift over progress.
If you watch a full podcast (he has done a ton in the last couple weeks), he clearly identifies AI as not a mere hype technology, as something interesting and potentially useful from a technology perspective, and he definitely doesn’t conflate a chatbot with all AI. That doesn’t undermine the vast problems with it, how it’s being used against regular workers, the threat the bubble poses to the economy, the criti-hype cycle, etc.
I think you’re oversimplifying “Cory Doctorow” based on the article you’re reading or specifically how he presents a more complex idea to different audiences.
Watch the Jon Stewart podcast interview if you want more nuance:
I generally respect this guy’s opinion (I probably use the term “enshitification” multiple times a week
A lot of people don’t use it the way he used it though. He used it specifically for two sided markets (eg a service that has both businesses/advertisers and personal users) where the focus shifts to the business customers, but people have started using it to mean anything that used to be good but isn’t good any more.
Corey Doctorow isn’t speaking to you, he’s speaking to the many, many people who have been fooled by the ai craze.
And often I wonder, how many people have been fooled, and how much of the enthusiasm and over the top fantasy is astroturfing by a few people incentivized to sway public opinion?
And how much of the doomerism is a campaign to keep the common man from using a revolutionary tool for, well, revolution, by alienating those most likely to do revolutionary things with it?
Once you look at the actual numbers for pollution, water usage, etc it becomes very clear that the issues are vastly overstated. So, why?
That’s one for the fooled side.
Yeah. I guess we’ll see.
EDIT: you should go on claude’s reddit and look at all of the tools people have built to keep companies and politicians accountable, to renegotiate billing, to improve their lives at the expense of capital. Or you can just go on thinking you’re right!
Fuck reddit but i have a friend who automated fooa requests with claude, sent foia requests to every county in the state and has all the tracking and everything automated. Only thing he needs to do is review the emails before they get sent. It’s amazing and he’s bring transparency to every corner of the state using ai.
Yeah I personally use it to analyze public data bases for fraud.
I keep comparing the datacenter numbers to Bitcoin - only BTC, not all of crypto, is still using more electricity than AI. That may change in the future, but JFC people, where was the outrage about the global Ponzi scheme?
I think it’s a worthy simplification that sums up the current state of things well. We have AI that broadly has different uses and then we have the ChatBot/ChatBot derived AI applications. The market is not going insane over the broader AI category. Executives are not tripping over themselves to say things like machine vision is going to replace all labor, or at least all white collar labor. The chatbot is the only thing in the conversation of consequence.
All the “everyone says AI is the reality, so everyone feels like they must say AI is the reality” refers to this specific category. It might be veering towards being oversimplified, but it’s trying to balance a perspective that is also oversimplified. Generally, we aren’t good at weighing simple straightforward takes against complex nuanced takes, so you have to “net it out” to have any hope of the point landing.
If the internet was “turned off” after 4 or so years not much would have changed, either.
That’s a questionable statement that may reflect on your main argument. After all, when was the Internet “switched on”? Sounds very binary to me.
To be clear, Doctorow discussed switching off AI and proposed that there would be little to no change on the world. I was just changing the technology to show the flaw in the stance.
and thereby revealed the flaw in your own counterargument.
Can you elaborate? I’m not following what you’re saying.
“Chatbot” style AI is wildly good and bad at varying kinds of tasks, and a lot of that has to do with how it has been prepared.
Some LLMs have been trained to make images - I’ve not been too impressed with them, but that’s what they’re “good” at - and better than the LLMs that have been trained to write computer code when you ask the coding LLMs to draw a picture.
The code writing LLMs have actually improved the most at reviewing code over the past 8-9 months, and that ability to review their own code makes them dramatically better at writing code as well.
I find Google Gemini to be pretty impressive at scanning laws and regulations and finding, not creative, but functional solutions to stated problems within the constraints of (often frustratingly bizarre) legal structures.
And all of them will lie to you, tell you what a great idea you have, etc. They’re not really lying, they’re mostly just taking what they read at face value without checking corroborating sources enough to find the obvious (to you) blunders. If you want the LLM to be sure, ask it to go on the RAG (Research Augmented Generation) - check everything before saying it, they can do that, especially “paid mode” engines, but it reduces their capacity for analysis of complex problems by 3-10x, because they’re spending so much context window “being sure” - you can alternatively spend 3-10x as long solving complex problems / accomplishing complex tasks if you have them do their homework, verify everything from “the best” available sources 3x and build up a local document set of “trusted information” which is used in preference to whatever it might find at random on the internet. This isn’t as sexy as “Hey Claude, code me up a database that does X Y Z” and getting the result in 30 seconds, but it is how professionals have been doing their jobs for centuries: learn reliable information first, then act on it.
Pretending AI and Chatbot are interchangeable is a marketing strategy by the companies who make these advanced chat bots. “They are artificially intelligent bro”.
I don’t disagree that the term AI has shifted significantly in the last 4 years or so, but I was actually meaning it in the other direction, as in, there is more to generative AI (what people are calling “AI” these days) than just chat bots.
“AI” and “Chabot” are interchangeable
In the same way that most people if you say you’ll take them to their destination with your vehicle, they assume in your car and not on the back of your bicycle, although both are technically correct.
Oh look it’s arbitrary-narrow-definition-that-fits-the-argument-I-want-to-make man!
Oh look it’s arbitrary-narrow-definition-that-fits-the-argument-I-want-to-make man!
I’m saying there’s more to generative AI than chatbots. My definition of AI is broader. What are you going on about?
That your definition is only advantageous to the argument you want to make. Everybody else understands “common usage” by non-technical folks. I’m a “technical folk” working in the area and I understand the “common usage” by the “regular folk”.
To the average person (and this includes politicians, basically anyone not a software engineer developing the tools )who Cory generally writes to try and inform, they are the same.
Should they be? No. But that’s a whole different thing and trying to change that in the general public mind doesn’t change his current point about AI as the public thinks of it right now.
Cory generally writes to try and inform, they are the same.
then he has completely failed to understand the concepts for people using him an a information proxy
isnt he supposed to help inform? or is he just an echo chamber to the lowest-common-loudmouth?
Stepping up and doing it better is free.
Too busy using AI at work to make everything easier for my coworkers and earn another raise
Good luck when they stop subsidizing the tokens 👍
I also can’t imagine bragging about being so busy doing work for the hope of a raise that I didn’t have time to pursue things I felt strongly about. Recenter your priorities.
I already got two raises in the past 18 months and it brings me joy to see things happening at work more efficiently, all on 20$ claude subscription, that’s fine ill pay $100/mo for the same stuff in a year, easily worth it (my employer pays it anyway)
Sorry if it replaced your only marketable skill or something, and we absolutely should have universal basic income for these kinds of cases!
Speaking at the level of your target audience is wise, but there is a point where information is not just simplfied, but lost, and I think equating chat bots with AI in the broader sense is past that point. It would be like equating websites with the internet.
I think the comparison is acceptable with maybe a terminology clarification in the footnotes, because “AI” is the false term under which this current bullshit is being marketed.
And people who believe the core mechanism in large language models to be AI are so uneducated that they will probably neither understand the distinction to legitimate AI research, nor bother to read footnotes.
That’s exactly the thing. Those who understand such a footnote don’t need it, and those who might learn more from it are unlikely to understand it. The above commenters are simply being pedantic.
Pedantic or AI bros ;) I find this new generation of gullible tech users scary. Recently saw someone voice their disappointment with Codeberg’s anto-vibecoding stance, and the person was describing themselves as “tech optimist”, which I believe is a great way to self-out as being extremely gullible.
And people who believe the core mechanism in large language models to be AI
What does that mean? Transformers aren’t AI? What? I don’t think you understand this as much as you think you do.
Think all you want, statistical text prediction has nothing to do with AI. The “intelligent” algorithms are all in the pre- and postprocessing steps that make the output sound good enough to fool gullible people into assumong intelligence.
What’s lost? I can’t think of anything.
Words are meant to convey meaning, and I bet you would lose a lot of non-technical people if you tried to explain the intricacies of what makes large language models worse than content recommendation systems, and doing this would be redundant for technical users.
So Corey can safely use the two words interchangeably and communicate with technical and non-technical alike.
Is equating chatbots with AI any different than equating a bunch of if/else statements with AI? Is any of this AI considering none of it involves actual intelligence or informed decision making?
Sure AI is more than LLMs, but those are the face of it in the public’s eye and is what’s driving these trillion dollar corporate valuations, which then lead to every company on earth declaring that their product is “AI!”
Yep, most people would not understand Machine Learning or Big Data analysis generally being AI, so just market your product by the sub category and you don’t have to deal with the expectancy of GenAI
As a non-techie: websites are the internet.
Like, I conceptualize the internet as basically just a giant shared network, but the point of it is the websites (for me).
I apologize to anyone I may have just gravely offended.
I apologize to anyone I may have just gravely offended.
lol
I don’t know how “non-techie” you are, but a good example is online games. When you’re playing Fortnite, Roblox, World of Warcraft, etc you’re not going to a web page, but you’re on the internet.
I straight up almost called it a series of tubes, lol.
Yeah, that’s probably why I do think of it as a shared network, I just don’t play online games, so that’s not what I associate with the internet.
There are other examples but I take your point.
I was talking about roof sheathing with the latest chat gpt.
It was confident the joists should go above the sheathing.
LLMs seem to be pretty bad at home improvement sort of questions in my experience. I suspect they don’t have a team of carpenters they use to RL the models, like they do for software engineers, etc
Software is easier because you can basically ‘inspect the house’ and the ‘home inspector’ via software.
Harder to do that with a house. Also a lot of different rules based on locality.
Reminder it doesn’t know anything.
It is just mimicking text it has been programmed for.
For it to be “good” at mimicking home improvement, it’s source needed to be full of home improvement talk. The best carpenters, plumbers, whatever aren’t on reddit, or wherever talking shop. They’re working, or making OSHA jokes at the bar.
How do people work? Are there ones born knowing how to use a hacksaw?
Mostly tradies are learning by hands-on apprenticeship with a master. All that discussion is not on the internet.
How did anyone ever learn anything before chatgpt?
The better question is how will anyone ever learn after ChatGPT
I can’t be the only one who will have a hard time for me to trust any professional who became qualified after 2023.
Personally I would ask my aunt and she would be wrong.
You might want a 2nd opinion, did you ask Grok?
I work in construction and so far I must admit that I have no idea what the hype is about.
But I have decades of experience, meaning I don’t know shit about anything BUT I know how to quickly find usefull information in the codes or in pertinents books.
If I were younger I might have fallen into the trap. If so I would probably be in jail by now, because in my tests I’ve seen LLM be dangerously wrong.
Vibe construction
His analogy about turning off AI is bloody weird. Pick almost any technology from history. Chances are if you had turned it off a few short years after it was first introduced, it wouldn’t have had any major impact. Why would AI be any different?
Corey Doctorow is an industry plant, anyone who goes to Burning Man and writes books like he does, has some major skin in the Techno Feudalism game.
Edit:I can only offer what is revealed to me. It’s too much for me to handle. Our reality is planned out. AI is here to enslave us. It’s not just some financial scheme. Doctorow is part of what they call a “hoodwink”. I personally never use AI product, never have, but I see what’s coming. I believe the solution is to stop using smart phones completely.
This is a bit unrelated but this is the cover or DJ Shadow’s Action Adventure. It has a track called “Reflecting Pool”. It was released in 2003. If this isn’t sufficient proof I don’t know what to tell ya.
… What.
I’m running into a lot of nuts on Lemmy today. Who moved the fucking rock?!
He’s been with the EFF for decades. Do some research first.
I’m aware of his career and related, history.
However it was Doctorow himself that mentioned his Burning Man attendance on a live tech podcast I was listening / watching 5 or so years ago.
Here’s an excerpt from audience questions after a he gave on the AI Bubble (or Apocalypse as he puts it often), published on his blog Pluralist. Written by Doctorow
“OK,” the young man said, “but what can we do about the crash?” He was clearly very worried.
“I don’t think there’s anything we can do about that. I think it’s already locked in. I mean, maybe if we had a different government, they’d fund a jobs guarantee to pull us out of it, but I don’t think Trump’ll do that, so –”
“But what can we do?”
We went through a few rounds of this, with this poor kid just repeating the same question in different tones of voice, like an acting coach demonstrating the five stages of grieving using nothing but inflection. It was an uncomfortable moment, and there was some decidedly nervous chuckling around the room as we pondered the coming AI (economic) apocalypse, and the fate of this kid graduating with mid-six-figure debts into an economy of ashes and rubble.
Okay. I’m not sure how that excerpt proves he’s an industry plant. It sounds like he’s talking about the massive financial crater that will be left behind when the fact that zero companies in the AI sector that do not manufacture hardware are profitable catches up with them and the bubble pops, which I personally think he’s right about.
Help us understand what do you mean by that? I see him opposing technofeudalism, not for it. So I’m not sure how is he an industry plant.
maybe as a resistance grifter? but i dont see him doing that.
Here’s an exerpt from one of his public talks about the AI bubble. From his Pluralist blog.
“OK,” the young man said, “but what can we do about the crash?” He was clearly very worried.
“I don’t think there’s anything we can do about that. I think it’s already locked in. I mean, maybe if we had a different government, they’d fund a jobs guarantee to pull us out of it, but I don’t think Trump’ll do that, so –”
“But what can we do?”
We went through a few rounds of this, with this poor kid just repeating the same question in different tones of voice, like an acting coach demonstrating the five stages of grieving using nothing but inflection. It was an uncomfortable moment, and there was some decidedly nervous chuckling around the room as we pondered the coming AI (economic) apocalypse, and the fate of this kid graduating with mid-six-figure debts into an economy of ashes and rubble.
This is me right nowYep. Sounds about right
AI is changing everything. Its not a lie, its absolute truth.
The problem is the changes are fuckawful terrible for everyone and everything.
Amazing analysis, thank you for sharing it.
AI is changing everything… Mostly to bad, that’s the part they keep.
Oh, has he had a change of heart? A few months ago he was being dragged on mastodon for telling everyone to stop complaining about AI.
Really? I saw two of his articles and also interview and everywhere he was negative about it.
link?
he’s been skeptical of at least the finance side of it since sept 2025: https://doctorow.medium.com/https-pluralistic-net-2025-09-27-econopocalypse-subprime-intelligence-e9a06136d109
