I know a lot of us, myself included, like to believe that piracy allows us to consume problematic media without supporting artists we do not like. But piracy demand also indicates to companies an untapped market that they could tap if they create the right product. HBO is absolutely keeping tabs on piracy of their show now and seeing our traffic the same way Crunchyroll used to keep tabs on pirated fan-translated anime back when they cared.
Also, there is a similar ethical zero-sum game with all other Harry Potter media and products. Normally we can buy on the secondary market if we need a hard copy to scan and rip but don’t want to support the creators. But almost every Harry Potter book in circulation is purchased by someone with intention to sell for a profit, and HBO is also likely keeping tabs on sales and resales of DVDs of the old movies. Every time money leaves your bank account for Harry Potter media, you are directly feeding the ecosystem which sustains the Queen of the TERFs.
It’s honestly pretty incredible how morally radioactive this one human is. Orson Scott Card is equally repugnant, but the Ender’s Game series doesn’t even have a small fraction of the market share of Harry Potter (IMHO this is the fault of that movie being just okayish, not good or bad, but that’s another topic.) Trump’s MAGA movement is comparable in badness, but there really isn’t much most of us can do other than voting and never shutting up about how unconstitutional the things he is doing is. Rowling really is comparable to Disney or Nestlé, and she’s just one person, not a whole company.
Right now, the only ethical way to consume Harry Potter is watching or reading movies and books on your copies that either:
- you obtained before 2020
- were given to you for free in some non-trackable way, e.g. offline or sneakernet.
There is no ethical Harry Potter consumption within capitalism. We will have to see if this changes once she is dead.
As a compromise to not contribute to stat gathering could one not use newsgroups?
The pomposity in this post, if harnessed, could power a small town for a week.
‘The unmitigated gall of these [redacted]s not to bow and scrape before OBE holder and the world’s greatest author Joanne Rowling’ - that’s you, that’s how you sound
I’m doing my part
Fuckin A, Misfits!
I doubt I’ll watch it, still gonna download it and put on my media server regardless. Other people will want to watch it so it’s better they watch it pirated on plex than on an official stream.
Harm reduction ftw
There’s a bunch of flaws in your logic here, not the least of which is:
There is no ethical Harry Potter consumption within capitalism.
Privacy isn’t capitalism
But privacy doesn’t cancel capitalism. HBO doesn’t need to know who downloaded, just how much people downloaded.
Capitalism is going to happen regardless of piracy. HBO is going to make the show regardless of how many people pirate it.
HBO doesn’t need to know who downloaded, just how much people downloaded.
They don’t need to know either of those things
But privacy [sic] doesn’t cancel capitalism.
It kinda does, but that’s not really the point
Piracy is in a sense the purest form of capitalism. It costs slightly more than nothing to send a file over the internet, and so if the efficient market hypothesis was true everyone would be pirating all the time. The suits and the corpos know full well that their products compete with piracy’s offerings at the low, low price of free + a VPN or Usenet subscription or a 3D printer. The smarter corpos know that they can gague a market by keeping track of torrents of their movies/shows. We aren’t insulated from the free market down here just because we don’t pay for shit.
Piracy is anti-capitalism. And while it may cost you something to send a file over the Internet, it doesn’t necessarily cost me anything. And if capitalism is producing something and selling it for a profit, piracy is the opposite of that: taking a copy for free, regardless of the method. Thus: anti-capitalism
Just because of the method of piracy you happen to choose may cost you money doesn’t change those underlying facts. especially because it is perfectly possible to engage in piracy without engaging in capitalism whatsoever. just because in the example you have cited, you have chosen to commingle the two does not mean they cannot be mutually exclusive.
I think you are equating capitalism to money changing hands instead of the generation of capital. The glib version of my argument is “Piracy drives word-of-mouth advertisement which drives sales, therefore piracy increases sales.” Its obviously more complex than that, but I hope you see my position.
I don’t see the difference between the two things you just described, no… except for the circuitousness of the path of the profit/value generation. The end result is the same.
But the argument you’re making also makes a huge amount of assumptions about the individual versus about engagement in piracy by society in general. On the micro scale versus the macro scale. Is piracy of a particular piece of media ethical as an individual versus is piracy of a particular piece of media ethical at scale. The crux of your argument seems to be the value generation of “word-of-mouth“. So now you’re just arguing a matter of degrees and pedagogy.
So you’re not really arguing about capitalism or piracy at all, now you’re arguing about passing undeserved value, and the methods by which that is done and how piracy is being co-opted via capitalism.
And what this whole argument really is about is whether or not you can separate the art from the artist and still appreciate a piece of work, even though you find the artist repulsive. And none of this has to do with piracy at all, but whether you can find a way to consume an artist work without endorsing the artist. where piracy comes into the conversation is whether or not that is an acceptable means to that end, and people will always disagree on that.
The whole “capitalism” chestnut isn’t a means to untangle that because piracy is, as I’ve said, mostly anti-capitalism, and isn’t self reliant on capitalism, so the logic of that argument doesn’t really work out. It’s mostly down to personal opinion, and there really isn’t any logic to that at all.
My man, the reason I said that is I’m giving you an out. Direct downloads can’t be tracked in the way that streams and torrents can. Get a Google Drive link from somebody or get a Usenet subscription. I thought I was clear that I meant “within capitalism” as “everything the suits can measure and react to”.
Not only is what you said definitely not true for a lot of different reasons, but if you’re gonna be this condescending, I don’t see why I should continue having a conversation with you.
I don’t think the cached file other people cached on premiumize.me or other debrid services can be tracked but I’d love to know how I’m wrong. Out of curiosity to be clear, I’m not watching Harry Potter.
Direct downloads can’t be tracked in the way torrents can, as far as I know.
I didn’t say it could. In fact, I really hope I can’t, lol.
I’ll do what I want, thanks. :)
Cause a pirate is free? :D
Yar har, fiddle de dee,
Being a transphobe is alright with me!
Wow. What a prick. It’s difficult to imagine proudly declaring that you’re transphobic in any setting, much less a piracy thread on Lemmy.
Yes, I am Rotten to the core!
Nah just a turd.
I think they were being sarcastic.
Edit: Mmmmm… Thinking about maybe they weren’t.
I initially thought they were being sarcastic too. Gross
A transphobe on a Lemmy instance, how “”““fantastic””“”.
Fucking gross.
The trans people asking you to not materially support someone who is harming us at scale are not your mom telling you you’re not allowed to play your video games, dude. You’re perfectly allowed to be an asshole
materially support
piracy community
Demand of any sort is still bad. This is still giving attention to a bigot and her media. This isn’t a high bar to clear at all, you can casually walk over it. But many people still seem intent on tripping over it.
Which is what?
But piracy demand also indicates to companies an untapped market that they could tap if they create the right product
I agree with your conclusion of not watching it, but the reason that companies might observe and take a non-purchase as some kind of hypothetical market signal doesn’t seem like the strongest argument for that, especially if people are avoiding the purchase specifically to deny them money for ethical reasons, that’s not something they can resolve by making ‘the right product’.
If pirating a Harry Potter show provides support to its author, I think that support is going to be more in the form of cultural relevance and mindshare than anything directly financial. Being a fan of an IP gives other people a reason to engage with it because your interest signals things to other people, like it means that by not watching it they might be left out of the loop etc, and since the law enforces property rights over what can be done with it and who can profit, that adds to the power of its owner by influencing the choices and interests of other people in their favor.
That is another reason to avoid it, at least for now. If you don’t watch it, you don’t talk about it, you don’t give them free advertising. Piracy evokes demand in many ways. It will still be around in 20 years when no one is looking, anymore.
In any case, aside from JKR being a piece of shit who deserves zero support:
These remakes seem completely and utterly unnecessary and of questionable production quality anyway. Why rehash the classic movies that were actually decent adaptations of the source material? Is this one arc really the only story worth telling in that universe?
Boycott it because JKR is a Nazi. Don’t watch it because it’s yet more Hollywood remake slop.
Is this one arc really the only story worth telling in that universe?
JKR tried with the fantastic beasts films, it failed so hard it only get three out of the five planned films.
they did not fail:
collectively grossed over US$1.8 billion across three films, three times more than the budgeted costs
they just weren’t as successful as the Harry Potter movies, and the second and third films had bad reviews (because they weren’t very good movies. but still, they had audience polls of B+)
What? Telling me what I can’t and can do? Or what I should or should not? In a piracy community at that.
I will consume specific media when, I want to. I will not consume it when, I don’t want to.
If your title was something like “I recommend not to”, that would’ve been a different discussion.
“Reminder: do not smear shit on the walls”
“Uhm, are you seriously telling me what to do right now? Maybe next time say you recommend I not smear shit on the walls”
It’s okay, you do not like my response to OP. Everyone has their own opinion, that’s fine, right? Or is it only okay when people agree with your opinion? Ah, never mind. Next time, I will just write what OP and the echo chamber wants to read, gain all the upvotes and then still do what I want. That’s how the internet likes it.
Don’t worry, your ability to consume treats thoughtlessly is more important than not causing harm. But that’s just my opinion
Yeah, lets boycott Harry Potter. Exactly like the boycott that happened with the game couple of years ago, that will bring a dent!
This a piracy community, all about doing pirating what you want. The fact people here trying to preach you should not and “you must listen or else you are bad” is just… ironic. A piracy community…
Don’t worry though, your amazing preach will force people to listen to you or… You might believe that.
You see, I have never heard of the new HBO stuff until OP mentioned it. Now I’m curious about it, I like Harry Potter franchise since I was a kid and that will never change. No matter how “morally correct” the internet tries to be.
Don’t worry though, your preaching and trying to be sarcastic meanwhile other people trying to force other internet users to “not watch it”, sure will work!
Oh no say it ain’t so my preaching has forced your hand!
Quite much proved my point, thank you. Your attitude is one of exact reasons people refuse to listen you and will definitely continue to watch whatever you don’t want them to watch. Anyway, was fun! See you, enjoy your day, perhaps watch the new HBO Harry Potter stuff.
I failed in the free marketplace of ideas this day 😔
“I’m going to be a transphobe out of spite” is a really weird hill to die on
I know right?
Pretending that someone is a “transphobe” or a “nazi” when watching something like a series. That’s… okay. There’s no reason to debate, lol. The more comments, I see. The more it just makes me think “yep, Lemmy is just Reddit. Just a different platform”.
Call everyone a transphobe that watches something that goes against your own opinion. Yep.
Call me whatever you want, it won’t change my position. Especially since you can’t debate without insulting. I’ll just “dig my heels more into the ground”.
“I don’t like what the right/ far right is doing to minorities. Authoritarian and fascism behavior. So let me just behave authoritatively too and tell people what to do, think and like. If they don’t, then they are bad”. Similarities? Maybe… But don’t write that, that’s bad.
To me, it’s pretty clear cut. Supporting a transphobe makes you a transphobe. I obviously can’t control your actions, but it is interesting that you feel the need to defend a position that allows you to support a transphobe.
I’m glad you said this because I tried to word my post in a way that did not include or suggest this phrase, and I see now that trying to be diplomatic to transphobes may have been a mistake. But I still hope I changed some minds.
How am I defending someone when I’m pirating it? Money does not flow to the person.
I’m not defending my position, I’m just surprised on how authoritively the left sudden get while blaming the right for being authoritarian. Especially in a Piracy community, where people pirate and download whatever they want without caring about… authority or opinions most of the time.
Then people get all squishy, emotionally and insult. Yeah, that will help the statement someone is trying to make.
Honestly, I don’t even care anymore. I’ll watch what I want to watch. The internet gives me a internet-headache lol. Reddit, Lemmy, whatever platform all the same crap with a different name.
Want to call me slurs or hateful names? Go ahead, you are a stranger on the internet.
Haven’t used insults or slurs, but if you’d like to imagine some for your emotional security, feel free. If one line from a stranger on the internet is enough to make you watch a subpar show made by a transphobe you weren’t going to watch, I don’t know how much “anti-authority” you can pretend to be.
You do you, man. Stay agitated on the internet. I’ll watch and enjoy content that I like, lol.
Never realizing that the entire attitude with that will never work to make someone agree with your statement, it will just make them more against your statement.
Not everyone’s politics are based on reactionary spite
With all the obnoxious comments, I will definitely watch the new HBO franchise. Out of spite and because I for one like the Harry Potter franchise.
but about treats and trans people
Baby mentality
That is entirely okay; I see the toxicity of Reddit has increased within Lemmy: “You do not agree with me, so you are a bad person.”. I appreciate the demonstration of your attitude. However, I’m not fond of it and therefore will simply use the infinite block feature that is within Lemmy.
Your attitude will not and never will make people change their mindset or think about their own decisions. It will just make people dig their heels in the ground and continue to go against the exact thing you are trying to preach.
This post pretty much proves that Lemmy is and can be just as toxic an environment as Reddit.
the thing you’re not agreeing with is “transphobia is bad” in which case yes, that makes you a bad person. Don’t dance around this, dipshit
No, it is more “hurr durr; I will insult you merely because you are going to watch a series” and “Despite being a pirate you must not watch this!” Or “I hate authoritarian behavior, so lets behave that way myself!”
I also have noticed, the lot of you, Hexbear community are the ones being so… yep. Lol.
However, if I like to dance, I will dance.
I’m insulting you based on the insult you deserve: smug transphobic dimwit. You’re dismissing that we’re telling you it’s not simply watching a series, you’re consuming media made by a machine designed to kill trans people. I personally don’t even care if you watch it, but you’re acting so obstinate in the face of actual trans people that it speaks poorly upon your character, to the point you deserve insults like: bigoted nazi shithead.
Describes people they perceive are being redditors
Does it in the most reddit edge lord way possible
Good job
Good job
Thank you! Appreciate it.
and because I for one like the Harry Potter franchise.
Really burying the lead there lmao
“Noooooo I need to consoooooom! Give me my treats! How dare you say I shouldn’t have them!”
Another Hexbear person comment. Really shows the attitude of the community, lol!
you are an actual child and you don’t deserve people politely recommending action to you. You should be commanded since you don’t know how to think to yourself. You just said you’re going to consume transphobic media made for children and baby-brained adults out of pure spite. You were given a reason not to indulge in it, because even pirating it is signalling to corporations that transphobic media is acceptable.
and you then gleefully don’t even mention why you’re being told not to indulge in it: because JK Rowling isn’t just some lady with an opinion, she’s a billionaire directly funding discrimination against me and people like me. Yes, you’re bad if you’re a transphobe. Fuck you. I hope you’re against me because I don’t want to be on the same side as a baby-brained infant bigot like you.
Ok, lol.
On next week’s episode: idiot actually becomes a Nazi because people told him not to, despite all of the good reasons to heed their words
IMHO the onlyy ethical way to consume new HP media is original fanfics featuring LGTB+ characters. 😆
“Hi my name is Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair…”
Harriet Porber the Trans Wizard comes to mind first. I love Chuck Tingle so much.
I did not even remember about HP after childhood. However after after that game and the HBO series boycott mentions and occasional meltdowns about how you should not watch or even pirate it, it enters mine and public consciousness in general, Streisand effect or whatever. I still do not care about HP anyway and am not going to bother.
It is fine to not like someone or something, boycott and recommend others to do it for whatever reason, you do you. I must write though that even remotely comparing JK with the likes of evil conglomerates like Disney and Nestle or with MAGA effect on american and world politics is an argument in bad faith to say politely. Also no offense, your ethical rules, arguments and the post overall seem moralizing and patronizing and people that do not already agree with you beforehand do not tend to take it well whether you like it or not, that is just how it works.
Never thought I’d see the day when hexbear users would make a ton more sense than anyone else on a given topic. But here we are.
I’m barely aware it exists and almost never see anything about it.
Making a post called “Reminder: do not watch HBO’s Harry Potter.” Is literally marketing it and forcing people to think about it.
Do not think about pink elephants
Damnit
We all just lost The Game.
Dang it, now I’m thinking about pink elephants? Why’d ya have to bring it up? /jk
That’s a fair point. But I’m not sure how to make a clear title without the keywords. Naming things is such a frustrating, imprecise art.
Oh dear, the thought police is here, telling me what I can pirate and what is forbidden.
I don’t give a crap about Harry Potter and JK Rowling can go to hell along with all her trans hate, but your arguments and your authoritarian wording of the post are a bit ridiculous. You don’t get to tell me what I am ethically allowed to do.
You’re right, except that I think expressing such an opinion here is futile. How anyone could possibly think this kind of post is a good use of their time and energy to make the world a better place is beyond me. Like maybe it’s not harmful in the grand scheme of things, but if you want your society to be better and help people you care about moralizing in the echo chamber is just a ridiculous distraction.
Authoritarianism is when someone suggests I don’t support media made by a bigot who’s trying to take away people’s rights :—) I am very smart
Switzerland during WW2, defending their neutrality. I want my cake and I want to eat it too.
Worked for them too, came out better than everyone else. How nice for them
I don’t have to deliberately collaborate with Nazis but I’ll help them store their gold!
glad we’re in mutual agreement on who you are!
Pardon?
Stand and fight for your ideals, or opportunistically profit off the interim confusion, whilst washing your hands of any culpability. I know who you are Switzerland, and you’re very rich and pretty
Oh, I thought you were accusing me directly of it. Switzerland is a war profiteering country.
And get rich!
Agree 100%. I’ve been in some tough conversations with fellow LGBTQ+ allies over my participation, however minor, in the Harry Potter fandom. I’m seeing a lot of “it’s fine if you liked it before we learned JKR was a bigot” but I’m also seeing a lot of people with the same story as mine — discovered the franchise back then, enjoyed it, but do not like what JKR is doing to the trans community — but also criticising me for the same. Like it’s “fine” (to some extent?) if you’re trans and JKR betrayed you, but if you’re not trans, you’re held to a higher standard as an ally. I dunno. It’s confusing. I will not, however, back down from my claim that I enjoyed the first four (+HBP) books and the first four films before I learned she was crazy… and that this year I rewatched Philosopher’s Stone in 4K (and yes, it holds up).
All that being said, the fears and concerns in the trans and LGBTQ+ community are valid. They may be jerks about it online, but as an ally, I can only ever strive to be a better one. I can’t change what I liked in the past and I will not deny it, even to history revisers. But I can change what I do in the present, and I can always strive to Do Better.
I don’t like the new Harry Potter series because of why it exists. JKR was disappointed the stars of the film series did not share her transphobic views, so she immediately made a point to recast Hermione and to make her completely different from Emma Watson’s portrayal, as Watson was her most outspoken critic. She didn’t make Hermione a Black girl to be inclusive, she did it to distance Watson from the character because Watson isn’t transphobic. JKR further muddied the waters by saying that Dumbledore was gay and always had been (though no evidence of this is in the books — he’s essentially treated as ace, as in, asexual, as in, his sexuality is undetermined and probably doesn’t exist, which is fitting as the entirety of his character’s relevance is mentorship to an adolescent boy). When the rest of the cast basically stood against her, she set out to recast all of them.
The new Harry Potter series looks like it might be fun, but I cannot in good conscience watch the new series. There are so many more things out there to see. Watching it with infinite time would be one thing, but I haven’t got that, have I? I was fully grown when Philosopher’s Stone came out, and I had no intention of seeing it. A coworker slipped me a bootleg copy (while it was still in cinemas!) and I watched it… twice. Then I went and saw it in cinema. I then collected the books and read them, and watched the movies, though I didn’t like it after the fourth one. It stopped being fun. I’m currently reading Dungeon Crawler Carl, and by that I mean, of course, I’m listening to the audiobooks. I’m in the second to most current book, the seventh one, and it’s still fun. It’s gotten serious, but it’s still fun. And, to the best of anyone’s knowledge, Matt Dinniman (the author) and Jeff Hays (the audiobook narrator) are not bigots. That’s the magical adventure series I’m looking forward to.
As a trans person, I have no idea why people are harping on you for liking HP before learning JKR was a bigot. As such, I never ascribe bigotry to people who simply purchase HP-related stuff. They may not know and may not be as online as I am to know the harm that they are contributing towards. However, if after they do find out, they continue to patronize said thing, I consider them as a bigot or at least that bigotry isn’t a dealbreaker for them. I believe the saying is if you sit down at a table with 10 Nazis, there are 11 Nazis at the table.
To cap this off, though, I will paraphrase the idea of perfection being the enemy of progress.
Spot on. If you’re okay with someone being racist, a bigot then that means at least you’re cool with such bigotry being in our society. Which I see as a morale failing. Attention to such is still attention, kind of like there’s no bad PR.
