Summary
College enrollment among 18-year-old freshmen fell 5% this fall, with declines most severe at public and private non-profit four-year colleges.
Experts attribute the drop to factors including declining birth rates, high tuition costs, FAFSA delays, and uncertainty over student loan relief after Supreme Court rulings against forgiveness plans.
Economic pressures, such as the need to work, also deter students.
Despite declining enrollment, applications have risen, particularly among low- and middle-income students, underscoring interest in higher education. Experts urge addressing affordability and accessibility to reverse this trend.
We don’t need lots of educated people to make products anyway. Mostly just need one engineer to design something, then a bunch to industrialize it and then a mass of people to man/woman the industrialized system that makes the part…ordering, configuration management, incoming inspection, part distribution, manufacturing (assembly work), packaging, shipping, etc, etc. 1 engineer at the top makes a shit ton of people or can make a shit ton of people have a job. So don’t need a lot of engineers. But it sure would be nice if you had lots of engineers working together. That’s best for having airplanes whose doors don’t pop open via the DFMEA process and other such design tools.
The purpose of education isn’t production. The purpose of education is to learn.
And then do what with it after they “learned” something?
That’s up to them. It’s largely the point. To learn what you want so you can do what you want.
Unless you’re going into a field that requires it for licensure, there’s no point. You can always demonstrate skill instead. And while that isn’t good enough for a lot of people to hire you, it’s often good enough to start your own business.
Combine that with diminishing human rights and increasing corporate rights. It starts to make sense to become a corporation yourself rather than a formally educated worker. More pay, more protection, more freedom of choice, and less debt.
Sounds to me like people are realizing that the price of college isn’t worth it. You take on thousands in debt that can’t be discharged in bankruptcy, you get a degree that doesn’t guarantee a job.
The lie of college for all is only meant to generate profit for schools and lenders.
And don’t get me started on textbook scams in college to prohibit used book sales
My prof back in university wrote his own textbook and gave it to us for free.
Best prof I ever had.
My professor wrote his own textbook and sold it to us to supplement his salary.
Drop tuition, bitches.
How are they going to get money to pay for teaches, tech, classes, etc? Shit costs money and you need to pay your people because they need to put a roof over their family’s heads and feed them.
Been a while since I was I paid but the cost creep is insane. I recall going up 7% In a year. That’s a hard pill to swallow.
Because it’s a fucking scam.
A thing that upset me when I went to college (15ys ago) was all the fluff electives I had to take. More than half of my classes were not associated with my major. I was looking into getting a masters a few years ago and one of the requirements was American History, again! I learned all of American history in elementary school, and all of it again in middle school, and all of it again in high school and again for my bachelors and I need to do it again for a Masters? Add along more sciences and math classes for an art related major. While I understand in building well rounded students, a lot of it seemed like it was meant to just beef up the number of classes I needed to pay for.
The number of electives needed was also enough where you only had two options.
- Keep your part time job and take additional winter, summer or night clases and pay extra to get them in.
- Have no job and fill your whole schedule with classes (each class was 3hrs long)
Electives requirements for a masters is bonkers. I was trying to do one in ed and one school I talked to was really picky about what they’d give me credit for (like I needed a Shakespeare class and my undergrad tragedy class didn’t count even though we read a bunch of Shakespeare in it). After everything they said I’d basically need 3 years for it. I said thanks but no thanks and went and found a school with a 1 year masters program haha
It’s a bit ridiculous. I think many majors could probably be done in 25-50% less time. You doing it in 1yr vs 3yr is a good example of it.
What you’re describing sounds like a liberal arts school. That’s kind of the point, at least for undergrad.
Electives are pretty commonplace and definitely not restricted to liberal arts, even for STEM undergrads.
My buddy with a computer science took water color and film classes. Issue is more bring forced to do it rather then take more relevant classes.
That’s just how undergrad goes usually. One of my undergrad degrees was science but I still had to take english, history, art, etc. Once you get to grad school it becomes more focused, but part of the point of going to college is to get a well rounded education. Otherwise, you could just pursue certifications.
I thought the point of college was to get a paper so I can a job that tells me to forget everything I learned. Plus ppl only cared about GPA. No one askes about electives.
Not OP, but no actually. My degree is an ABET accredited B.S. and I had to take about a years worth of classes (over the course of the four years) that had nothing to do with my degree (e.g. psychology, sociology, philosophy, etc.) Their “rational” was that it was to make students more well rounded human beings and members of society.
While I appreciate the sentiment in theory, I have to disagree with it in practice. For people like me that find those topics interesting already it seemed like a waist of time and money. While I did learn some new concepts it’s mostly stuff I had already learned in my free time or would have come across sooner than later. For most of the other people (who tend to be uncurious outside of their specific niche skill set or interests) most of the information and lessons end up being lost on them as it doesn’t really stick.
I’m sure they were some people it was beneficial for, but I doubt it was the majority.
Then again I’m not sure my view of the college experience was very typical. I was basically taking care of myself in some capacity by middle school and got a full time job during highschool in IT after my junior year via the trade program. I was living on my own and working full time while going to school full time. I’d go from work where the next youngest coworker was 10 years older than I was and people twice my age respected my opinion and person to classes where I was treated like an irresponsible child.
However, I would then over hear or observe other students taking about how surprised they were by various aspects of living away from home or “being an adult” and I couldn’t help but just think “… yeah that shouldn’t be surprising, are you dumb?” (never said out loud or to them, I knew I was in the minority with my experience, but it was surprising).
As someone who has a STEM degree and works in a STEM field, I have the exact opposite opinion. I did not know my major for ~2 years (though I was leaning in a direction), so I took a number of courses that I otherwise would not have needed. And I am SO FUCKING GLAD that I did as I now have an actual well-rounded education. I truly don’t even think you are aware of what you’ve missed out on.
Interacting with engineers on a daily basis, it is immediately obvious to me just how damaging it is to silo education so much. These people are incapable of thinking critically about anything outside their very specific area of expertise.
Good luck trying to discuss politics with an engineer.
I now have additional student loan debt that I would not have otherwise had. But it was 100% worth it. The most useful courses that I took were completely unrelated to the degree I ended up getting.
How much do those extra classes cost and why is it the responsibility of the a job certificate program to have those? Those extra classes could be taken at your leisure after you have a job.
Good luck trying to discuss politics with an engineer.
I have never had a problem finding a stem major with political opinions. Most far more radical then what you’d be comfortable.
Yeah, it’s because academia has become a for-profit business first, and an educational centre second.
“Academia” is casting a wide net. Academic administrators are different than academics
Concerning? To whom? The people who profit massively off of students, many of which are going deep into debt?
I would say it is concerning for the future of America maybe?
I dunno, just a wild guess.
Personally, I think the fact that people believe they need to go to college as a prerequisite to success is part of the problem.
I honestly think college is mostly a cultural staple for middle income families at this point. It’s four years of “discovering yourself” and postponing adulthood.
The benefits of a college education are pretty difficult to quantify, unless your intended career requires undergrad.
However, building a career from 0 is pretty painful, and I don’t think most people would have the stomach for it.
Think of how stupid the average person is and now imagine how stupid they are if they are 5% less educated on average
Education to any level should be free at the point of use. Hell I’d even go as far as to say people should be given a (non-means-tested) grant if they go into higher education. We need more smart people.
The more educated & informed a society is, the more productive, safe and free it is. No one should deny themselves the education they otherwise want because they can’t afford it.
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I love it when people participate in the Overton window right-wing ratchet and think they’re just being pragmatic.
Yeah, and?
They essentially described how the US primary education system works, and prerry much how secondary education worked until Regan.
That you think it’s “socialism” and therefore impossible is a reinforcement of hard-right elitist propaganda.
You sound surprised to find out that not everyone here thinks capitalism is perfect.
Think about it: What is socialism? It’s collectively funding or working on things via the government. There’s many competing definitions but that’s basically all there is to it.
Under that definition we’re already living under socialism:
- Fire departments
- Police
- Infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc)
- Weather services
- USPS
- The entire military as a construct
With socialism the people get a say in how such things are run. In private institutions they don’t. That’s the biggest realistic difference.
Either way people are still paying for these things. If they’re not really competitive then private industry will fleece the masses because that’s what capitalism encourages (see: Healthcare). If there’s a robust, competitive market then socialism can fall behind in things like innovation and price.
Whether or not something is funded-and-run by the government is irrelevant. What matters is the value. If government can provide a better value for a dollar than private industry it should. If the people don’t like the result they can change it or use a private alternative.
Sure, they’ll be paying extra (on top of taxes) for the private alternative but at least it’s an option. If the government isn’t providing an alternative to private institutions then there’s really no option at all. Best anyone can do is vote with their wallet but as we can all see that just doesn’t work in certain industries (in fact, entire caregories of need!) and services.
Republicans hate all of those but thr police and military
Not to mention bank and corporate bailouts. Socialism for the rich, harsh darwinism for the poor.
This is basically socialism.
This is basically socialism
You say that like it’s a bad thing?
And K-12 is just an arbitrary number. Paying for college would just be extending what we already do.
I didn’t read it as them saying it was a bad thing…
I live in the UK, a capitalist country.
The Scottish have this already, everyone gets free education including university, no strings. In England we only have it for people from lower economic backgrounds (via means tested grants to pay tuition), but still, we still do it for some people. It’s not a remotely absurd idea.
Hell even most pragmatic capitalists would agree that a free-at-the-point-of-use education system is generally a good investment in the labour pool. If skilled workers are rare, they have negotiating power, and we know how much capitalists just love workers that are able to negotiate from a position of power.
But Trump loves the poorly educated.
College makes you think critically. It’s good for society overall when more people go, but college administrators have basically turned these nonprofit organizations into money grubbers that have forsaken their original mission.
College is often sold to the working class as some kind of vocational training that will prepare them for highly sought after knowledge based careers. But really think about it: before the mid 20th century, who was the typical college student? Was it a person who had to worry about the consequences of unemployment even if they couldn’t find work?
The next question to ask yourself is: why did these people go to college anyway if it wasn’t for career reasons? And is it something valuable that we are losing as administrators make college more about jobs?
The article says it has to do with declining birth rates
"The enrollment cliff concept came about within higher education after years of declining birth rates in the US, triggered by the Great Recession. Earlier this year, the CDC released data indicating that the US had hit a historic low in its annual number of births – declining 2% from 2022 to 2023 and then 3% in 2023.
“Since the most recent high in 2007, the number of births has declined 17%, and the general fertility rate has declined 21%,” the August 2024 data shows."
2024-2007=17.
Your math is wrong. The birth rate drops haven’t hit college yet.
Most admin can be done with a high school degree. The college requirement for everything is absolutely bonkers.
The problem is that with the quality decline of high school education college education has become all but a requirement for white collar jobs. Yes, the skillset you’ve been taught is going to be painfully out of date, but the fact that you have enough preserverence (and money ) for college means that you at least won’t be autofiltered by employers.
I’m no expert, but I’m having a hard time not thinking this is a recipe for a major generational housing crisis. We’re telling kids the “key” to success is getting that fancy college degree, when in reality it’s just a bunch of debt and no job prospects.
When are we going to start factoring in the actual cost of a 4-year education? Tuition’s through the roof, student loans are suffocating people under 30, and we’re telling them “just do it” for the ‘sake of their own future’?
And another thing - what’s with all this emphasis on getting a “degreed” person out into the workforce? Can’t we teach 'em something in high school? Do we really need to be training 20-year-olds to fill up our 40-something year-old retirements?
Because if they can sell the lie of needing college, they can also sell the lie that only those people can make the AI prompts for the businesses of tomorrow! Gatekeeping, essentially
Hmmm I wonder if this has anything to do with the FUCKING ASTRONOMICAL TUITION
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Which I personally feel sucks for personal growth. no way i woukd have survived my first year without being so far from home. Plus It was nice doing homework with everyone on whim instead of planning times.
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My partner got 70k in loans because parents were in the same boat at the time. Still paying them off almost 20 years later. Travesty anyone would be in this position.
And some of these schools have incredibly large endowments. The tuition should account for the cost of the professors time (and they should be paid fucking well) and whatever minimal costs for using the facilities would be split amongst the thousands of students. But the tuition money goes to the administration and other money pits that do absolutely nothing to benefit the students.
Wonder if it has to do with all the “college bad. Why go to college for $100k for a $40k job…” social media trends and the “get rich on social media” trend, along with the fact that college can be really expensive.
Incoming graduates saw an entire generation go to college at the highest rates ever just to find a job market that left a record number of them with debt still on their name more than a decade later.
What were once institutions devoted to academia, have become corporate training camps ran by a board that runs the institution with a corporate mentality, and they enrich themselves commesurately.
Don’t feel even an ounce of sympathy for these assholes. As someone who works adjacent to academia, we’ve been talking about the “enrollment cliff” for a few years now. The solution universities have come to is that they should cut admissions requirements to make sure anyone with money can enter their institution, and then do as much creative accounting as necessary to cover up students’ failing grades. They’d rather become degree mills than look at the real problem; their tuition costs.
As a post-doc, I was selected for a leadership academy that put me in close contact with upper administration at a public university. We would meet weekly and have a project to work on over the course of the two month experience.
During our discussions, I was always curious about how they used data in their decision making. So one day I asked how are our students doing in the long run? How do we assess the effectiveness of the education we are providing them?
They did not know, they do not collect such data. What was most shocking to me, though was the degree of resistance that they put up to even talking about the idea of creating such feedback systems.
Shortly thereafter I left academia forever with a lingering sense of disgust at the willful ignorance of any institutinalized academic.
I know my university at least gathered that data after I graduated. Kept getting emails about if I had gotten work in my field, salary, etc. I never answered and I have no idea if they would even make use of it but there was an attempt. This was 20 years ago.
I suspect it wasn’t actually the university contacting you, but instead it was the alumni association.
Alumni associations aren’t usually a direct unit of the university but sort of an auxiliary org. Alumni associations want the data to further their own interests but they are primarily interested in you as a source of donations. They are often at odds with central administration, a difficult relationship because the associations do gather funds but have an agenda that is often at odds with the administration.
My university calls and asks for money on a weekly basis and has the audacity to employ current students to do it. I feel terrible for the kids. They have a script asking these questions. What do I do now? What advice do I have for them?
I used to be normal and tell them to study and go to office hours. Now I tell them the University does not care about them or their success/failure. They only care about being paid for 4 years. I always end with telling them : if you or your loved ones are going into any debt at all for this…leave.
I know that I must sound like some disillusioned alumni that was screwed by the system and an outlier. I’m not. I am doing objectively better than most of the people I graduated with. But if I am one of the few success stories of my many peers, and my University knows absolutely nothing about my strategies after undergrad, then how can they hope to advise students to do the same?
I just see the scam for what it is, and hope I can be a catalyst for at least a few kids to get out before financial ruin. You can get an amazing education from community college/studying at home/khan academy/trade schools. It is all in how much you apply yourself and has nothing to do with how much you paid.
It is difficult to express the depths of my disappointment of any human assembly above about 2000 people.
Let us common shitheads figure out how to properly home/pod school kids or something. It only takes 2-3 hours average to educate a small passel to the point of independent learning.
Eh. I don’t really want my school knowing everything about me. I shouldn’t need to provide them my data and they shouldn’t ask for it.
Yes there should be accountability etc. but the deal was that I’d pay them for an education and that’s what I got. If Big Alma Mater wants to know whether I’m “successful” then too bad, that’s not part of the deal.
Sorry we just passed the law. You can expect an Alma Mater SWAT team to show up and torture you for the information.
Jokes on the SWAT team. Every time I move my alumni association immediately finds me and sends me lovely brochures asking for money. They already have my data and probably yours.
They have time to google. Not magic, just time and mandate to use the resources at hand.
I think ya might have missed the point
