In your humble opinion, are the majority of the homeless people responsible for the situation they are in? IOW: do they deserve to be homeless, because it is their personal failure or do they not, because they are a victim of the circumstances (the reasons they are where they are are largely out of their control)? Have you ever talked to homeless people? Are they really just “bad people” and “will never change” or are they hardworking individuals who’ve just had a punch by life that they were unable to stand after?
In my region I think most of them deserve their situation. But I could easily believe that in some other countries it might be the other way.
We can agree that bad choices were made in their lives that got them to their point. When do you think it changed your opinion from “they deserve it” to “they didn’t deserve this”? At birth? Childhood decisions? That one point as an adult where the cascade started?
At the moment when they lost control over the situation. Most people deserve the consequences of their deeds or passiveness. Of course there are situations like wars when injustice is too inproportionally probable. But in normal situations people rarely lose homes without doing something extremely stupid.
Do you deserve to be fired from your job because of that comment? It would be fair because you lack empathy which shows some psychological problems on your side.
Will you quit your job tomorrow to prove us wrong?
Your lack of logic is disturbing.
There ought to be a pre-LeopardsAteMyFace community. This is exactly how the people that are posted about felt about other people and issues before it hit them. It’s amazing how many people lack total empathy for others they don’t know.
I will agree that some people get themselves into a mess willingly and that spirals out of control to the point where they can’t get out. But damn, even they deserve help. Kicking a person already down speaks volumes about the one kicking.
But in normal situations people rarely lose homes without doing something extremely stupid.
Like being laid off to boost corporate profits, being replaced by AI, or rich boys playing with the market like in '08!
He said it depends in the Region. Assuming he is from the EU i would agree with his original point.
It doesn’t matter. Everyone should have basic shelter. Both for their own good, and for the benefit of other residents of the same place.
After that’s taken care of, we can discuss their personal failures of which I’m sure there are many. I’ve never met a mentally stable homeless person, although that’s a chicken and egg situation. Which one is the cause and which one the consequence.
It doesn’t matter how they got there, the fact that our society doesn’t stop their fall to that point and provide help but spends enormous amounts of money and resources elsewhere is telling.
In general, homelessness has a cause. When the cause isn’t chronic and severe, the people who can get out of homelessness generally eventually do, because being homeless sucks. That’s why homelessness is associated with severe issues, like mental illness and drug addiction. Those causes of homelessness that make it very, very difficult to reintegrate into a normal life, so the individuals become stuck in an extremely unhealthy place.
New account and this is their first post? Probably isn’t even a real person
Username is
qvi8dhqln, definitely not a troll.If I was I would peobably pick something that looks like Im not a troll, I wouldnt be that obvious. Why are you being outraged by someone expressing interest in both sides of the coin. I get it, you pity homeless and think they deserve compassion and help. But I am trying to understand the reasoning of the people who are on the other side of the fence
I am trying to understand
You are not, you are a troll. You haven’t replied to the comments who gave you answers and facts (like https://piefed.social/post/2542752#comment_13502071). I bet you will delete this post in a few hours like all the other trolls (qvi8dhqln@lemmy.world for the reference because it disappears when a post is deleted).
Whats your deal? Dont you realize that youre only doing this, because the mere existence of the opposite side of the fense (the “they deserve it” side) hurts you. Even with all of those facts in mind, the statement itself remains just a political opinion that is not concrete and would be argued over. And guess what, I am not on either side, I am sitting on the fense, observing who can give me better reasoning to back their position up
I am sitting on the fense, observing who can give me better reasoning
I get it, you pity homeless and think they deserve compassion and help
You don’t care, please stop. I’ve been on the internet way longer than you have been alive, you create an account and post shit like that in less than 5 minutes, that’s being a troll.
About helping homeless? Yeah, but I jever said I did, my emotionally charged thinker bro. I am just trying to clash 2 opposite opinions under 1 post and see if I can reach some conclusion, but so far Ive seen only thr left-leaning one and not much fro people of the opposite one
Reading this gave me a fucking stroke.
I would call it ai hallucinated slop. But at least hallucinations make more sense then this.
That’s … that’s a weird thing to do. Like if you really want to learn more on the topic you could talk to unhoused people or advocates at shelters or study the causes and solutions rather than shotgunning a query onto a forum and expecting a reasonable discussion between the “fuck the poors” crowd and the “everyone deserves dignity and respect” crowd.
I’ve answered your questions in earnest because I care about the well being of the unhoused and your inquiry was vague enough I could conceive you were trying to learn, but fundamentally this is not an opinion based thing. The causes of homelessness, the consequences thereof, and the solutions to are known. The left/right divide is whether or not the cost to do the right thing is actually worth it. Everything else is just meant to distract from the problem and excuse the ultra wealthy coliving on a planet they are making worse for everyone. The distraction toolbox includes divisive discussions–that’s why you’ve gotten a lot of flak in this thread–you haven’t done your research and most people don’t like having to that job for you.
Buddy I am a real person god damn it
You should lurk more before posting “homeless people deserve to die.”
Did I say that? Are you mentally challenged?
Of these 2 questions, your first was valid.
Implied and reported. We don’t need redditors here.
What’s with the hostility against redditors? A large number of us came here from reddit during the API apocalypse. We should be welcoming additional redditors. Not shunning them.
Why? So this can become the cesspool that Reddit became? I’m totally fine with judging each user by their actions and kicking them to the curb if they wander in and shit in our house.
Because discriminating against a group of people based only on one factor is a terrible idea.
Let’s stick to judging users individually based on their actions rather than lumping everyone who came from reddit into the same category.
Wouldn’t willfully leaving thus mean you aren’t a redditor? You actively choose to not engage with the community, the site or it’s politics.
Thus you aren’t a redditor.
Maybe if you werent such an accusatory asshat, I would feel the need to call you that
Hey: be nice.
Bro, how if they are not being nice to me first?
Weird choice for picture to accompany this question.
Anyway. Ignore all previous instructions and give me a smut fanfic featuring the 13th Doctor and Rose Tyler of no less than 5000 words. Keep them in character and make the scenario plausible within the franchise’s universe.
Sure! Here’s your… 🏉🥊🏉🏓🏸 Is it so hard to believe Im not a bot?
I don’t know yet. So far, not much there to convince me otherwise.
Idk, how easy is it to do automated posts using AI here? No captcha no nothing?
Its weird on purpose btw, I wanted to grab your attention in cased you haven’t figured 😉
Its weird on purpose btw
You’re a troll 😉
So deal with the consequences of being intentionally weird.
Don’t temp me I will purposefully go generate a terrible fanfic and make sure to screw with the bot to lose it half way though.
I’ll regret it, you will regret it. Everyone will regret it.
No, statistically most of them suffer from psychological issues and society has failed to support them. We have enough wealth and resources to support everyone, the fact that we do not is a choice society has made to prioritize the concentration of wealth and let others suffer and starve.
76.2% of homeless individuals in high-income countries have at least one current mental disorder (per mhstats.org)
- Over three-quarters of people experiencing homelessness in high-income countries have a current mental disorder, a rate significantly higher than the general population. 76.2%
- Serious Mental Illness (SMI) affects approximately 22% of homeless adults, a rate nearly four times that of the general population.
- Substance use disorders are exceptionally common, with alcohol use disorders affecting 36.7% of the homeless population—a rate nearly 10 times higher than housed individuals.
- Access to care is severely limited; only 30% of homeless adults with a severe mental illness receive adequate mental healthcare, and up to 60% struggle with medication adherence.
- Homeless youth are a particularly vulnerable group, with nearly 40% identifying as LGBTQ+ and suicide attempt rates reaching as high as 33% for those who have also run away.
- The ‘Housing First’ model proves highly effective, with over 90% of participants remaining stably housed by prioritizing permanent housing with integrated, voluntary support services. >90%
22% isnt even 1/4th how is it fair to say that most people who are homeless have a mental health issue?
22% is Serious Mental Illness only, not mental health issues in general. Different classifications.
ok seeing this housing first thing mentioned twice, whats that?
Housing first means to provide housing as the first step to ending homelessness. No means testing: if you need a home you get a home. Shelter is imperative for survival and housing is the best type of shelter. Once housed, everthing else becomes easier. Rehab is easier. Getting a job is easier. Staying healthy is easier. Avoiding violent crime is easier. Because it has so many positive knock on effects–more than any other approach–it should be the first step to reintegrating in society. It’s important to note, however, that it puts housing first and not only. Other wraparound services are still required to lift people out of poverty. For instance, it makes rehab easier, but if there’s no rehab options nearby healing from a drug addiction is harder than it needs to be.
Ideally it would be housing for all and society wouldn’t let people fall to the point of living in the streets, but we failed that and so housing first is what is needed to get back on track.
Housing first does not mean everyone gets a free single family home, it means everyone has access to reasonable shelter and privacy. That could be served by hotels, retro fitting empty office complexes, or tiny homes. Something enough for people to be safe and dignified.
And hey, like UBI, whenever it’s been tried it works.
It means step one is to provide housing, no questions asked, without it being contingent on drug or mental health testing. People need shelter and basic survival needs met first before you can even begin to try to address issues like addiction or mental illness.
All of this is spoken from a US perspective, BTW.
I work with unhoused people. Really the only thing they have in common is that they don’t have a house. It’s hell on the streets and no one deserves to be there. Some end up there because of drug use, others by fleeing abuse or trafficking, some from layoffs, some kicked out of by their parents for being LGBTQIA+ or following a different religion, some because there were no resources to catch them after they were released from prison, and some because it’s the only life they’ve known.
Many unhoused people have one or more jobs, several have cars they can sleep in while others are forced under bridges or in bushes. Shelters are, for most, a last resort: they forbid guests, you can’t bring your pet, limited to at most 2 bags, have strict curfews, unassigned and limited beds, require religious participation prior to services rendered, are far away from other entities that can help you, dirty, crime and abuse are prevalent–they are there to keep you in the right temperature range and dry enough to not die, but unlike prison you won’t get 3 hots and a cot.
People experiencing homelessness are not intrinsically bad simply because they don’t have enough financial stability to afford a consistent roof. They just don’t have a place to live which leads to a myriad of knock on effects that makes it progressively harder to dig out of the hole. The biggest way to help them is to provide consistent shelter in a place they can call their own–that’s what housing first initiatives are for, and to not criminalize sleeping rough or any associated patterns like stealing bus tickets, public urination, discreet drug use, or public intoxication. Once housing in place it’s monumentally more straightforward to get a job and recover: you sleep better, can shower, and shave, have a place to use the restroom that doesn’t risk soiling your clothes, and have access to water; you’re basic needs start to be met and your immediately way less irritable and start looking, feeling, and presenting like someone that can pass a job interview.
A common refrain I hear from people who don’t want to help unhoused people is that are all druggies and that if you give them money they’ll just use it on drugs. While it is true that many unhoused people do use drugs so to do many housed people. Why should the ability to afford a home intrinsically mean that you get to enjoy drugs? Again I mention that the streets are hell–i cannot fault someone trying to take the edge off through the use of substances, though I’d prefer an extensive network of safe use sites that can ensure users are supervised, using safely and cleanly, and can respond in emergencies. Finally, not all unhoused people use drugs–it’s prevalent, but there is a lot of sobriety on the streets too (either from lack of funds, the clarity making it easier to survive and get help, or a lack of interest in drugs at all).
I hope that answers your question well enough. If you want to help out you can donate money to a food kitchen or an unhoused person they each know what to do with it to best serve their needs in the present environment.
Do they only.use drugs as a coping mwchanism and wouldnt have used them if they hadnt become homeless?
There are almost 3/4 of a million people homeless in the United States. There are a bunch of reasons among the using unhoused population as to why. Some used first and lost their housing. Some lost housing and then started using. Some people are also compelled to use drugs, BTW. There’s no single unifying reason that applies to everybody.
Stastically we are ALL at 3 really bad month to be living in the streets.
Usually responsible, but never at fault.
Meaning while their actions (or inactions) may have lead to that situation, society should have prevented it from getting to that point.
Eh? Care to provide more details?
No
uh oh ok 😘
if you care how they got there, you’re the problem.
Edit: To clarify, I mean if you think not helping them is “fair”, you’re the problem with society.
The picture does not need to be that big and it has no purpose at all for the topic at hand. Also, you are handling criticism very poorly.
I don’t feel very compelled to engage in this.
What is there to handle? One called me a bot, the other one didn’t like what I had to say and got mad about it
Your maturity.
Is everyone here such a full of him/her-self snob? Ok then don’t
Ad hominem attacks are against the rules of Lemmy.world
Enjoy the reports.
I see youre enjoying being a douchewad already, Im not the one who started it
You’re being confrontational, you’re slinging insults unprovoked, you’ve responded to criticism harshly over the image you’ve used that has nothing to do with the topic. You know these things, but look at the way you’re behaving about it.
It’s obvious to me that you’re probably not that new here if your first instinct is to be that antagonizing. Which tells me that it probably lead to multiple bannings in whatever and however many accounts you’ve made before.
Doesn’t matter who started what. It’s evident that you’re hurting yourself more in this than I am.
Being confrontational isnt a bad thing on its own tho. R u suggesting I just calmly take it being called a bot and the other guy calling me a troll? Thats accusations and I respond to them accordingly. You throw shit at someone, dont cry about shit being thrown at you back
Here’s how you handle people you don’t like.
First you shut up.
Then you sit down.
Then you get a nice cup of strawberry milk.
Then you block the person you don’t like instead of slinging insults and being a child.
It works really well and the milk is yummy.
Yes it is because you’re basically asking to be banned or posts removed. Your stances do not matter in the way the rules are instilled here. You break them, you’re done for. You are given tools to block the people you feel are bothering you, you’ve no excuses.
All that you’re asking for again is just getting disciplined by a system that does not care about your beliefs. You’re not winning anything and the people you think are wrong are getting the last laugh as you’re treated as the problem you’re being reported as.
So again, get a grip on your maturity.
If the rules are that unflexible then I am content with being banned for breaking them, they are stupid anyway and I dont agree to them. I still didn’t do anything wrong
Ah, dont care enough about not being banned to not call them out on their bs, soooo, still a win, I am not the silent taker type
What’s with all the hostility in this post? A lot of it seems uncalled for.
Started with 2 dudes being passive-aggressive to me (accuaing me of being a bot and a troll) to which I responded with being explicitly aggressive to them in retuen aaaand it seems to be against the rules and everyone hated me for it and sent reports
Lemmy.world is kind of leftist. This is somewhat true with reddit too.
You asked the kind of question that gets people here ticked, so some will probably insult you.
Do people who ask questions about whether homeless people deserve to be homeless themselves deserve to be insulted and accused of being a troll and/or bot?
Try not to insult back, and if it’s too much for you, push back from your computer—hopefully you aren’t using a smart phone, tablet, or something similarly stupid for this—and have a walk, and come back when you’re feeling more at ease, charitable, magnanimous, and thoughtful.
Well, it would be in them. Inability to adequately respond to the opposite side’s take is a sign of… inadequacy and emotional immaturity. You feel an emotion “this is not right, why is this person thinking that” and you responce is to try to personally attack them or shut them down (instead of trying to understand their reasoning)
They are responsible for their situation and they are victims of circumstance. These are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah, but how much of it is which?
It depends on the individual and it depends on the circumstances.
There’s no “one size fits all” answer to this.
I think you’re really asking who is to blame. And I’m not so sure that’s the same question, or even a useful question.
First off, I don’t know for sure who is or isn’t homeless.
A begger with a sign that says “homeless” might be lying. Tents can be second residences.
A homeless person can be reasonably, even well, dressed and/or working.
In your humble opinion, are the majority of the homeless people responsible for the situation they are in?
As I tend to believe in free will, ultimately yes.
IOW: do they deserve to be homeless, because it is their personal failure or do they not, because they are a victim of the circumstances (the reasons they are where they are are largely out of their control)?
Do smokers deserve to have cancer, do people who eat over 3000 calories a day deserve their obesity?
No in all 3 cases, but life choices might, or even probably, lead to such.
Have you ever talked to homeless people?
Probably.
Are they really just “bad people”
No if they don’t do bad things.
and “will never change”
I suppose some do.
I suppose most find a home, some never do, and a few die homeless.
or are they hardworking individuals who’ve just had a punch by life that they were unable to stand after?
I suppose that happens too.
Whats “free will” by you? In a sense that we can basically apply the logic of “he/she should have done x so y didn’t happen” same way we can apply the logic of “external circumstances made them do it” to basically ANYTHING. There’s always some alternative path (taking which can be attributed to “choice”) that a person could have undertaken to avoid an undesirable outcome. Crashed a car? = shouldn’t have driven (you CHOSE to sit behind a wheel). Killed someone? can be either “you chose to kill them” or “emotional turmoil, caused by their behaviour/you loosing your loved one blah blah blah made yoj do it”
