- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- games@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- games@lemmy.world
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Hard to justify blowing a couple grand on a card when 5 years of GeForce Now costs well under half that amount. I normally dislike subscriptions but this one is solid IMO
That’s how subscription services get you. Why buy DVDs when you can stream all day long on Netflix? Suddenly, DVDs are no longer for sale and streaming services take down content for one reason or another. Then you have no other legal alternative but to pay whatever they ask, be shown whatever they want and continue to own none of it.
The GPU market is a goddamn disaster. Nvidia can’t even put the right amount of ROPs on a card or back up their “5070 is a 4090 hurr durr” claims, AMD ditching higher end GPUs, melting connectors, AI, AI, AI!!, etc. Even with Intel’s Arc GPUs it’s not enough to compete when Nvidia has all the market share in consumer cards.
I’ve got a 7800xt, a few 3090s in various gaming/video editing systems and a RX 6400 for a backup card. I’m not buying any more until this AI bubble bursts and cards start having actual amounts of uplift from generation to generation and when I can buy one without them getting botted to hell and back.
You should sell the 3090s now. Prices for them are freaking nuts, probably as high as they’ll ever be.
I’m using them lol I know I could sell all 3 for a good price, 2 are EVGA K|ngP|n cards and one is a FE that has a very good overclock potential. I’m not looking to upgrade now, they still work fine.
Oh yeah, you could swap a kingpin for a 4080 if you wanted, lol. Everyone wants 24GB for local AI.
But honestly they will still probably be expensive if/when you sell them, so no rush I guess :P
They are just price raping us now on very GPU release.
The golden ticket for me is buying previous gen. Used.
I picked up a 7950 during the crypto crash. A 980 TI when everyone was doing exactly this and jumping on new stuff. My used 3090 is like $200 more than when I bought it, last I checked.
And the risk of it being faulty? Heck, I could’ve bought two of them and still come out ahead of these stupid new card prices.
This gen is still pretty screwed, though. 7900 prices may drop some with this, but still…
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7900s aren’t as outrageous:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=amd+7900&_odkw=rtx+4080&_udhi=1000
You are not wrong though, those 4080 prices are messed up.
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Where I live Nvidia GPUs are insanely priced or nonexistent while AMD sans 9070 has decent prices, check AMD cards too.
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Insane
In a way, we brought this on ourselves by tolerating scalpers. Gamers made it known that they’ll go hysterical and pay any price to have it now. If enough of us don’t do that, scalping video cards won’t be a lucrative business and the fuckers will be forced to give up. I guarantee you the reason the stock is disappearing so fast is because resellers have their fucking bots set up to spam all the retailer web sites, and the rest is people trying to compete with them.
What a rat race. Fuck the entire thing.
We have it better than we’ve ever had it at any point in the past, also: Broad PCI-E backwards compatibility means you can stick your old card in your new board and tough it out for a few months until the fervor dies down and/or the scalpers lose their shirts sitting on their inventory.
At least you can still use your older hardware, and at least Radeon cards as old as GCN1 are still actively supported outside of Windows.
Also, old games still exist and will continue to exist in some form into the foreseeable future, legitimately or not.
Like, if you’re not into multiplayer games, the Mesa drivers last time I thought still work well, great even, on Polaris and Vega cards as well as even legacy GCN on the Linux side of things, you can still use your RX 580 or 590 with full support going that route, for example.
Also, I must say AMD makes great hardware, and tries as hard as it can to price/sell them uncompetitively.
The MI300X? Better than the H100, yet no one bought them because they priced gouge them, and priced gouged any sane lesser GPU for a dev machines. People would have worked around the funky software stack, but no.
Pro cards? Total joke. Gaming? See the article.
Even Strix Halo, the framework APU, is price gouged to hell. A cheap 32/40CU config with one cut-down CCD would be killer, but no, it’s mega expensive or a completely neutered integrated GPU, your choice.
I really don’t get it. The only explanation I can think of the Nvidia/AMD CEOs are colluding because they are second cousins (and they are actually second cousins).
Nobody deserves anything
And some people wonder why I have near homicidal tendencies towards cryptobros and/or AI evangelist. This pretty much sums it up.
I consider myself an “AI evangelist,” but I hate Altman with a burning passion, probably more than you do, and hate data centers burning the planet.
I think running models locally, as hackable tools you understand, trained on very modest hardware (as Chinese companies are doing by necessity with the import restrictions), is a distinct thing. Doubly so if bitnet takes off and running stuff on-device becomes super cheap.
I feel like there’s even a smaller group of programmers that used blockchain for utilitarian purposes, and not pyramid schemes, but TBH it seems vanishingly small.
What I’m saying is… the problem is not AI, it’s billionaires.
It’s always billionaires.
Most of my hatred for it (if you can call it that) has to do with putting AI in everything. Blockchain makes sense in certain instances. I wouldn’t say for money, but for information tracking etc. AI LLM’s make sense in certain instances. But it’s everywhere and it’s taking the place of tech I use daily but doing a worse job overall by a wide enough margin that I just can’t stand it. And I don’t understand why companies want to put it in everything except that they don’t want to be the only ones not shilling it.
There are always people who come out of the woodwork to claim it works for them but half of them don’t even have a good understanding of how or why it works for them, and a lot of them are just lazy. I look at AI as a bandaid type tech in most of its applications right now and I’m tired of fighting to opt out of it.
It’s just corporations being shitty and cultish, no different than usual.
The sad thing in LLMs can be quite cool with the right implementations (like structured output to force correct syntax, complex grounding, and so on) but the sea of garbage floods any possibility of that.
In EU basically the retailers were using on the fly price adjustment to gauge their own customers. There were several models at MSRP but all models that were AIB OC versions started at 749-799€ and were dynamically adjusted upwards. I know personally of several cases where people bought and were charged for the early cheaper price and the etailer cancelled their order to fulfill 100€ more expensive prices they were practicing post hoc. We need to amend legislation to make any sale binding from the moment you’re charged any amount. In CZ the seller Alza was doing this.
Sounds like an auction with extra steps.
Honestly, I’m just keeping my money in my saving account. No way I’m spending my hard-earned money on overpriced stuff, I can wait a while longer, and I’m considering a Steam Deck as my daily driver. Not a beast, but not excessively priced either.
As much as I want a high end gaming PC, I’m fairly happy with the combination of ps5 for the heavier stuff and steam deck for everything else + emulation (including some switch) and streaming from the ps5 to SD for cozy gaming. I realize this is not a cheap combination by any means, but for the same price you’d get a PC that’s just barely above the ps5 in ability. I’ll invest in a PC further down the line
Same. I’m happy with my 7900XTX that I bought in 2023.
These days I only use Amazon for small things, and lately have decided to go back to individual specific websites for whatever it is I need. There’s hardly even a price difference at this point.
I was looking to get a 7900 XTX, and then once the 5090 released all the sellers jacked the price up on the 7900 XTX to about $1500 USD
The entire GPU market has gone to shit.
It’s unacceptable that there’s new cards for sale (if you can even find one) that cost more than I paid for my 1080 Ti 8 years ago and have essentially the same amount of VRAM (12 GB vs 11 GB).
I thought that maybe the 9070 XT would be at least a reasonable option if I could get it for MSRP. Of course that launch ended up being another farce.
At this point it looks like I’m going to be riding my 1080 Ti until the bitter end. Sure, newer cards will wipe the floor with it, but I can’t justify the current prices.
You can always buy used. Even a 2080 TI would be a big step since you can use dlss with it, and prices for them are better now.
I would look for a used 3060 ti because it has 12 gb and has about the same performance as a 2080 ti or 1080 ti.
The 3060 TI is 8GB IIRC, the base 3060 is 12 but somewhat slower, probably not a worthy upgrade over a 1080 TI.
I forgot nvm
I’m in this boat. I’ll ride my 1080 ti until it becomes unrepairable and dies. 🚀
I should look hard and long at Intel Arc if i was you. Those are nice and a clear move up the ladder from where you are at. And they are reasonably priced.
ARC unfortunately still has a few driver problems. While it’s infinitely better than when it launched, if you went with it most of the time you’d have to wait a few weeks before new games are playable.
The 1080 Ti was GOAT’d.
Mine was first in my PC, then it moved into my wife’s PC, and now it sits happily in a Jellyfin server. That lad has served me thoroughly.
How was that launch a farce? I went with my friend to MicroCenter on launch day and he got one without any problems. They had over 500 cards in stock. We just made a line to get in, picked out the model and made another line at the cashier. Easy.
He paid MSRP.
It wasn’t the same experience over here. All MSRP cards sold out instantly on all stores. Whatever was actually in stock were all at least £100 over MSRP, and they quickly sold out too.
That only works if you live near a micro center.
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if you have been waiting since 2016, why do you want an 5080, though? 2-3 gens earlier will be a large improvement too, with half or even lower a price.
I did the same, but with AMD. I’m going Linux, and everything is good except nvidia’s utterly broken drivers. I mean, they always improve, today it’s usable if you don’t want to sleep/hibernate your PC, if you are sure you won’t run out of video memory (nvidia drivers are the only one in linux that can’t transfer some memory to system ram when it’s really needed), if you don’t need gamescope, and so on…
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I budgeted to be able to buy something good, not just good enough.
but those were good, a few years ago. and they are still good. It’s not like performance doubles every 2 or so years, afaik not even near to that. there are a few games from the worst publishers that run garbage on any hardware or only run acceptably on topmost of top tier hardware, but I just ignore the mediocre products of them.
Aren’t you letting perfect be the enemy of good here? You are looking for a unicorn and likely will never find it.
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Consider buying a previous generation card. You can sometimes find good deals on used ones.
For years now the prices on this year’s latest cards are so high that I don’t know who buys them. I can afford to spend $1000 but I never would when I can probably get 85% of the performance for $250.
Out of curiosity, what GPU is getting 85% of a 5080’s performance at $250? Genuine question.
That was genuinely pulled out of my ass. Not a benchmark comparison. It’s just my perception that cards only get incrementally better each year, but “this year’s card” is always proportionally much more expensive for what you get. Few games actually demand the very latest and greatest, so I don’t know why people would ever pay the premium for the latest and greatest.
Ah, gotcha. I haven’t been looking for GPUs for a few years now, so I was low-key excited that there was actually a deal that good.
But yeah, I agree that the last couple gens of flagship GPUs are vastly overkill for 95% of games.
What games are the 5% that need a 5090 to enjoy? I can run any game on the market right now at a minimum 1080p 60fps on my 3060.
Yeah. I bought a 3060 on eBay for $240 a few weeks ago. Works great.
Brand new Intel ARC B580 puts up numbers in the 4060 range and only costs around $250
I usually buy AMD for their open-source support. I wanted nvidia this time around to fiddle with AI stuff, which is better-supported on nvidia right now.
fiddle with AI stuff
I.e. one of the same things that causing gouging on GPUs and the market to be pushed out of gamers hands.
This person is a consumer, just like you. Your gaming is no more important than their fiddling. Your angst is pointed in the wrong direction.
I was upgrading anyway. My RX 580 wasn’t cutting it for games any more.
People at home using their gpus for a mix of gaming and local ai are not really the source of that issue
Good luck finding a used one that isn’t barely on its last legs from being poorly OC’d/cooled, or is just an outright brick that burned out in a crypto mining farm and is now being resold by a shell entity of a shell entity of a shell entity on Amazon or Ebay.
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This is what I got from the article as well. Jesus, buy a previous gen GPU and fiddle a bit with your graphic settings, it’s just games, not life or death.
There was a window where the AMD 6000 series were cheap and readily available, which was probably your best bet. Now we have to wait the AI bubble to burst. Hopefully.
I’ve been telling myself since about 2016 that I would save up to go all in and build a solid gaming desktop.
Finally, I was at the point of “Fuck it, I’m tired of waiting. I’m buying a 5080, even if it costs as much as 2 PS5s.”
I assume that whatever you’re running right now isn’t terribly new if you’ve been thinking about upgrading for nine years.
The 5080 is a 16GB card. A quick skim on Amazon suggests that 16GB Nvidia cards are in short supply, but that you can get a 16GB AMD GPU without problems.
They aren’t quite as fast on the Passmark benchmark as the 5080, but they also cost a lot less (even if the 5080 were available), and I assume that they’d be a lot faster than whatever you’re running now.
Could go with that (or something less-fancy) and then if you felt that you wanted to spend more for more performance, do so when GPUs become available.
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I’m so glad I built a high end computer last fall because I was lucky to afford it. Now my 4080 S used is now worth 600 dollars more than what I paid for it at MSRP.
I mean, as much as I like to criticize chip companies, it’s across the board.
In most industries, the owners are sticking it extra hard to the consumer.
All this article does is say tsk tsk instead of recognizing the late stage capitalism and pointing out our few options.
I stood in line at Microcenter Thursday morning to get a 9070 XT. I arrived at about 8AM (an hour before they opened), and the line was already wrapped around the side of the building. They let people in slowly after opening (apparently so as not to overwhelm the sales staff), and I got near the front door by about 10. They were handing out vouchers, and they actually still had quite a few left, with almost all the different models available when they got to me. After I got my card and left, I looked back at the store and the line still wrapped around the side of the building.
Frankly, from my perspective, I’d say the availability of cards was “surprisingly good.” It’s just that there was so much pent-up demand, even “surprisingly good” supply wasn’t good enough.
You want to know what the punchline is, though? Not expecting to have much choice in cards, and not having had time to research the differences between the ones made by different board partners, I ended up getting the “Gigabyte Gaming OC” version, which sounded good because it had a slightly higher max clock speed but was still $600. In retrospect, I should’ve gotten the PowerColor “Reaper” version because every other version is too wide to fit in my ITX computer case. [Womp, womp.] So now I have to decide between paying extra to replace a case that I otherwise like, or try to hope the cards actually do get restocked in a timely fashion (and still at MSRP) so I can attempt an exchange? I guess the moral of the story is, even if you “win” it’s still a fucking pain in the ass.
The last card I bought was a Radeon Vega 56, also on launch day (7.5 years ago!) and I was also damn lucky to get it. I cannot believe that the GPU market has been continuously fucked up since then!
Well if you are getting a new case, and are into modding, I adore my fractal design node 202. It’s tiny, fits a 420W 3090, and you can duct the cpu/gpu to its vents with like $5 of foam strips. I have no case fans, yet the cpu/gpu idle with their fans off and barely spin up because they only suck in outside air.
The newer fractal ridge is a bit bigger, but should work much better with no modding since it’s more “open”
fractal design node 202
Won’t fit. That case supports GPUs up to 310x145x47 mm, but the one I just bought is 288x132x56 mm. It’s that extra width beyond “2 slots” that’s the killer, both for your suggestion and my existing case.
fractal ridge
That one does fit the new GPU, but did I mention that I’m also still using a 3.5" drive and a full-size ATX PSU?
What I really want is something that has a layout similar to my old case, but literally just maybe half a centimeter wider:
The Silverstone Sugo SG09 and SG10 were awesome if you can find them. A bit bigger, but they support full PSUs, with the option for cheaper micro atx mobos. Cooling is good too.
Also, the node 202 width restriction is a bit conservative, it fits my much larger/thicker ftw3: https://www.evga.com/products/specs/gpu.aspx?pn=E2763314-163F-4391-8935-EA2C5DFFD06B
But like you said, no full sized psu.
