An open source package that would replace adobe would be a game changer.

You can consume porn and not be addicted. But if you managed to get addicted to porn, it will be incredible hard to return to a non addictive behavior when it comes to porn consumption. Kind of the whole point of being addicted is that you can’t regulate your behavior on your own anymore.

Seems rather poetic then factual statement - what does " whether I wanted it to be or not." in this context even mean?

I think there is also another angle of self worth hidden in this meme. Do you think you deserve better?

To achieve stuff you most of the time need to get out of your comfort zone. But it on parents to slowly teach their children to overcome fears. It gets much more difficult when you are grown up.

Try talking about how cool it is to be a househusband, or how knitting is actually good, and try to find an audience. Tell people around that you pursue passion over money, and good luck building a family. Tell anyone about things in which men are genuinely disadvantaged - and then not be claimed as a whiny hypocritical bitch.

That is not my experience, and I’m sorry if it’s yours. But than again you are talking about normalizing pressure from the conservative society that tries to preserve traditional gender roles. That one is not on feminism. And there are men in position of power with platforms and I would argue there are quite diverse male voices, if you inclined to look for them.

As a woman, go full tradwife and you’ll be praised. Talk about the joy of maternity and people will translate it. Go gentle, don’t contest the positions of power, and you’ll get your attention very briefly.

I’m not sure that this is the experience most women make. Seems a bit magnetosphery influenced perception.

It’s not a male vs female thing. It’s about men and women for/against patriarchy, and while women have managed to overcome a significant share of gender stereotypes, men have not, and it’s not that feminism is there to help.

I really don’t get why feminism which tries to diversify gender roles does not help men. It helped me.

It is, yet it’s not quite what this place offers.

But it is. Also again - no-one is stopping you from creating a non feminist male space and see where it goes. I think there was even one around on lemmy - see for your self how it ended. I really don’t understand your problem with dudes talking about mens issues from feminist perspective.

Let me rephrase it - feminism is, in its entirety, about women.

Rephrasing the same point does not make it more true. I already got it that it’s your view and I disagree - I don’t think we will find a common ground on this point, which might stem from different personal experience.

blindly following feminism

Blindly following anything is dumb, kind of general rule. And also feminism does not claim to be solution to all problem. Again it’s a sociological framework (that is evolving) to analyze power dynamics in society, from a rather specific point of view. It’s like expecting game theory to solve all your problems.

But feminists speak little about the fact most of that financial burden still lies on men, or that there is a common expectation for a man to earn more than a woman. For them, it’s commonly a non-issue.

It is a non-issue for feminist that men earn more than women? And that women are still financially reliant on man is not a concern for feminists? I think you just fail to see that a lot of points you are mentioning are directly connected to critique feminism is bringing up. And again - no one is stopping men from bringing up those issues - not like men would lack platforms.

What is beyond me at the end of the day is why people took the movement that is about women, always claims to be about women and historically never been about anyone but women and suddenly pretended it’s about everyone

And you will never get it, since you fundamentally misunderstand feminism.

ltimately, it is not for or about men, it’s about what women want men to be.

And yet, men gather here and talk about their issues - and you are the one having a problem with it. While no-one is stopping you from creating a non feminist male issue community and see where it goes. Or you can check one that was around here and see how it ended.

I am, however, socially pressured to be a provider, and instead do my best to be - exactly - a partner. An equal, not only in joys but in duties as well. And this is surprisingly hard.

Guess who is one of the few groups fighting against societal pressure thru narrow gender roles? But than again if you are searching for non feminist women who want to be equal partners and not a provider - I might have an idea why it’s hard.

Ok, one more time thank you for elaborating. I think I get your point now. But I disagree in your perception of capitalist neoliberals like Clinton as feminist. It’s like corporations pandering to the LGBT.

I’m really sorry, I don’t know why but again it’s kind of difficult for me to get your point.

Isn’t getting rid of traditional roles and being able to chose your own role liberating?

but so should women hear male voices to see what can be changed on their end.

Dude you want to honestly argue that male voices are not present enough in general population? Where do you live?

The optics of feminism are women-focused, it is about women first and foremost and therefore may not be applied to (or rather imposed on?) men unconditionally.

Optics are rather a subjective measurement.

Feminism mostly covers only one side of this - income inequality - but barely tackles the societal issues that lead to the inequality in expenditures and financial expectations put on men.

This is just simply not true. Questioning gender roles is one of core ideas in feminism and questioning male roles is one big aspects conservatives feel very uneasy with when it comes to feminism.

As such, men are squeezed between the rock and a hard place

Who is putting the expectation on men to be the provider? Feminists? Dude come on. Who made it impossible for a family to live on one salary? Feminist?

As a result, even if we eliminate all the glass ceilings that women may face, men will still take higher positions on average because that’s what their conditions dictate.

Yes and questioning traditional gender roles while providing alternatives is big part of feminism.

But naming a place “Men’s Liberation” comes with the expectation that it’s about the males’ issues through the males’ optics, or otherwise it is as liberating as a hostile army.

No it’s your expectation - not a general one. And there is a rather clear description that clarifies the purpose of this group. I can get that you might not be interested in exploring male problems through the lens of feminism - but it’s beyond me why you have a problem with other doing so.

Also from my personal perspective: I was raised rather feminist/egalitarian and I don’t feel pressure to be a provider but rather want to be a partner. Obviously anecdotal - but an example of a solution to a problem you mentioned, offered by feminism.

My overall point here is not that feminism didn’t or doesn’t do what it could to fix the deal for men, too, it might not even be possible, my point is that there’s a female power base that men, especially young and low-class ones, experience as being capable of doing so.

Thank you for rephrasing and clarification. I think I can see your point now. And I would even agree that there is a perception that feminist or liberal leftist ideas are dominating general spaces, since corporations we pandering pretty hard in those direction. But I think if one looks at where the actual power in society lies - it’s clearly not with the liberal left and even less with feminists.

What do you mean by female-dominated and do you assume that every women is a feminist?

If you’re getting laid off chances are a women wrote the reports that the layoff was based on, and a woman is signing off on your severance package. You go to the dole office and – yep, a woman works your case. Chances also aren’t too terrible that, above the layer of the predominantly male C-suite, there’s an heiress to the empire because generational capital accumulation doesn’t discriminate.

So, in a nutshell: Much feminist messaging can easily come across as HR telling a male truck driver “our boss is a man, therefore, you’re fired”.

Whether that power base can actually be, realistically, mobilised, is another topic. I guess academia in principle serves the place for middle management that unions play among workers but it’s a tough cookie no matter which side you look at. Doubly fucked in places like the US where middle management is even more prone to the temporarily embarrassed billionaire fantasy. And somehow I ended up at class analysis. Honestly, wasn’t intentional.

Sorry it might very well be my bad English, but I don’t get your point at all.

but you (feminism) didn’t fix the shit deal,

I’m just curious where feminists are in power. Maybe in some nordic countries - but than again those have rather high living standard and economical equality. Big corporations pandering to LGBT and co, does not really count.

It’s a community to discuss men issues predominantly through the lens of feminism. Care to explain the joke?

Again, feminism (as in “let’s figure out where women are disadvantaged and fix it”) - cool. Masculism (as in the same but about men) - amazing. But we can’t have one of them and hope for it to fix stuff for everyone. Either we go united for an actual antisexism, or we need both to be balanced. What happens here is the subversion of the men movements into yet another feminist space. We have enough of that.

This space was created as a space to deal with men issues through the lens of feminism. While you claim that feminism is "as in “let’s figure out where women are disadvantaged and fix it” - it is a sociological framework that explains social hierarchy and power structures, that grew over long period of time and gave power to a specific group of people, while disenfranchising other groups to different degrees. This framework can be used to understand problems quite a lot people face today (men and women) but is obviously not a theory of everything. It does not deal with all issues men and women encounter in a modern world. You are free to create your own space for men issues to analyse them from a different point of view. But in my experience such places often deteriorate into basic misogyny.

It is true that the top positions are predominantly taken by men.

How come?

yet comes with an answer that feminism (a movement that strongly boasts female voices over male, and often doesn’t consider men as actual allies) will magically resolve it without active men’s contributions by dismantling patriarchy.

I doubt that this is the conses opinion on this sub - you will have to present some evidence for this claim.

Men are not invited to resolve issues that directly concern them; they are instead forced into the roles feminists have made for them, and this doesn’t work because men have issues and considerations of their own that are not addressed.

Who exactly is stopping men from being involved in resolving their issues? Feminists? I don’t see how - you will have to elaborate on this one.

The point I raise is not that giving women a seat removed it from men in itself, but that feminism tries to sit on two chairs, claiming to be for equality and at the same time doing everything to show only female voices count, because men are presumably “powerful anyway” and don’t need to be heard out.

We seem to have a very different understand and view on feminism and what it’s about.

acknowledge the difference in the sexes.

If it does not acknowledge the difference in the sexes how does it value womens interest/experiences over mens? Like dude, get some basic logic going.

Things are breaking down because women work, not because oligarch are getting insanely greedy and sabotaging democratic structures.