That’s like the population of a small town
We gotta put all our energy into what they’re doing. They’re the rare few on the left that really understand what is going on and how to start fighting it.
You’re right, but consider how poisonous those names have been made to conservatives. Their ears automatically clamp shut.
Know the jacked up part? If conservatives listened to either one of those two, without knowing who they were, they would be all ears.
First time I heard Bernie was on NPR, had no idea who was talking, but I gathered it was a politician running for office. (This was him running against Hillary.)
“LOL, this guy is a joke. You can’t actually answer questions honestly and in a straightforward manner. Holy shit! He just answered a question about Israel without mumbling around. Fucking love him, but whatever he’s running for, he’s going to lose.”
Yeah.
Some of MAGA actually likes Bernie though. A number of them would have voted for him and he would have almost certainly won.
TBF Bernie has attended larger rallies, spoken at them for sure, although possibly not organized or been the central focus of one.
If you have any wisdom, you will support them. Full left or nothing else will work.
Lol they aren’t even full left, at all. We’ve deluded ourselves into thinking common sense and not being bought by the billionaires and corporate lobbies is “full left”
As far as I know, they are social-democrats, full-left would be anti-capitalist or anarchist, which they are not.
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I thought Bernie was at least an actual socialist. That’s the impression I got.
You seem to be correct according to his Wikipedia pages, he describes himself as a democrat socialist (which is more anti-capitalist than social democrat), but also an admirer of Northern European social democracies, and certainly an opponent of neo-liberalism. I guess he would oppose communism in his vision of giving economical power to people through democratic worker unions and cooperatives, rather than having everything centralized by an authoritarian state.
He claims democratic socialist, but his stated policies are social democrat.
Isn’t it compatible with the democrat socialist philosophy of progressive change as opposed to a revolution?
Yeah I was just clarifying that Bernie is not a democratic socialist himself, he just misuses the label (although that misuse is more common than not nowadays)
What I am saying is that he may actually be one, but he pushes social democrat politics as progressive steps towards democratic socialism. Also probably by electoralism, to avoid scaring some voters.
Looking into it further, you may be right. It looks like in his younger days he was more vocally socialist and pushed harder for more immediately and obviously socialist ideas but tempered that at some point, likely to make himself more appealing to win elections. Some people claim he is not a real socialist regardless because he is reformist.
God I really needed this. Finally some positivity against the insanity. Glad we are finding our backbone!
Trump and gang is trying to have AOC charged for terrorism, so it seems to be working. She should either get DNC leadership now or finally form her own party.
Yup. Ideally she takes over and redirects and repairs the burning husk that is the dems. It they don’t give her leadership splintering with bernie would be a godsend
Please don’t let her form a new party. As much as people say they hate the 2-party system, fragmenting the Democratic Party would be a yuge mistake at this point. We need to let the Trumpublican Party eat itself when he keels over from dementia or his final Big Mac Attack. The MAGA opportunists who rode in on his coattails will tear each other to pieces as they claw for position like rats.
The Democratic party’s plans, laid bare: Do nothing and wait for everyone to notice how awesome they are.
I haven’t missed voting in a presidential election, and voting for Bill Clinton’s second term was my first. If there are elections in 2028, the Democrats run Hillary Clinton, Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsome, etc. and no other options besides for Republicans, Greens or Libertarians, 2024 will have been my last vote.
The maga problem isn’t just Trump. This is the culmination of decades of work by christo-fascist conservatives. They’re not resting on their laurels and lining their pockets like a normal regressive administration. Every effort is being taken to solidify their power and deconstruct any threat that might rise up post-trump. Even if they did eat themselves there won’t be a government to rebuild.
We’re passing an inflection point in American politics. People want change and polls indicate they don’t care what side it comes from. The Democratic party has never polled lower. Being the milquetoast neoliberal corporate party is objectively the worst anchor to tie around your neck.
AOC and Bernie’s message isn’t wildly popular on accident. That energy needs to be captured and amplified, Democratic party or not. What’s the worst that happens from a split ticket? More people stay home?
Edit: you don’t even have to run against them to capture the Democratic party. Just have headliner progressives threaten it with a broad show of support and you force them to open up the primaries. Their policies have no support, they have no chips to call the bluff.
A Trump presidency, let alone TWO, wouldn’t have been possible without the gradual dumbing down of Americans over the last century, which IMO is an unintended side effect of progressive addiction to entertainment and convenience. Nobody conspired to make people more stupid by getting them to watch too much TV. That happened as business people strove to sell more products and get richer, like always.
Conspiring to make and keep people stupid is a conservative top 10 hit. For them the ideal populace is homogenous, fertile, docile, fearful and uneducated.
Anti-intellectual attacks have been the go-to for centuries, they’ve just gotten more modern and efficient. Look into groups like the heritage foundation, prager u, the heartland institute and (most importantly) the people bankrolling them.
Its a long legacy of chipping away at the foundations of democracy and critical thinking. Blaming technology and the free market is buying their propaganda. It’s the same lie they use to frame climate collapse as an unavoidable natural cycle.
I know there are individuals who hate the world and want everybody else to be suffer, or to be dumb and gullible because then they’re easier to con. But IMO the main driver is the basic conservative attitude that everybody should stand on their own two feet - either because in their minds it makes the nation stronger, or they just resent having to pay for anybody else’s anything - even things that benefit other conservatives. Individually motivated group behavior often looks like a conspiracy but it’s not. Most people don’t eat meat to spite vegans, or floss to put dentists out of business. Etc.
Go baby go!
It’s working kids - despite the blackout from the mass media, people are taking to the streets:
That line should be way higher than in 2017… that gives me less hope than more tbf
It… is? By over 1000.
Yes it’s around double
It should be much more than that
Why is 2017 the point of comparison?
Comparing to the first Trump Term, I’d assume.
Trump’s first term vs second term.
Cool. So what policy changes did they enact? None? Then who gives a fuck?
Action, not words, AOC. Action, not words, Bernie. Fucking stfu and DO something.
what have you been doing? besides typing on a keyboard at people
Have you ever met this buddy of mine?
Getting their base energized and angry about the current situation is doing a lot more than introducing a bill that has a 0.00% chance of getting passed. The chances of them talking to the high ranking party officials and getting them to reverse course probably has the same chance of success.
It helps to use your brain to actually think about the outcomes of actions. On the off chance that I’m just being an asshole, please let me know what is a better use of their time.
“introducing a bill that has a 0.00% chance of getting passed” is Bernie’s function.
So he can look like the real leftist who is really trying.In this environment … bipartisan politics haven’t played a meaningful role in national US government since … Oh. George W Bush, maybe.
If another four years of Trump and the threat of project 2025 wasn’t enough to make these people do the bare minimum it would have taken to stop it, I honestly don’t see how a few empowered speeches will do more than jack-shit to motivate them.
I wish it were different, but we’re taking about a group of people who have a proven track record of stopping short of walking the walk.
You’re right it is much better for them to give up.
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Or the ok, or the mildly evil in this case.
What are you doing besides uselessly bitching and moaning about how others aren’t doing enough. Grow up, shit will never be perfect in the real world and we are on the edge of a fascist regime coup. Even if Bernie doesn’t do shit, getting that many people together is still a net positive compared to him voting on stuff or talking to people or introducing bills that will never pass just so morons think he is doing something better than rallies.
Getting large groups of people together repeatedly is the most important thing that can happen right now. Quit bitching and fucking do something.
lol… again. Gathering people in large groups is not an action. It’s just accumulation. VOTING is an action.
No mountain was moved moved because a bunch of people gathered at is base and shouted at it.
And I find it ironic that the advice you’re suggesting is the exact same thing I see presented to the far left/progressive do-nothings that sit at home and watch everyone else try and cast their votes to save their sorry asses, or wait until shit gets this bad before they mobilize into larger clusters of do-nothings to stand around and smugly criticize everyone that warned them this would fucking happen.
They helped make the bed. They can lie in it with the rest of us that didn’t.
The real irony is that currently there are not even local elections to be had where I am. I’m case you are new at voting, it’s not continuous. Saying the only action is voting is… Well if you haven’t gotten the point by now you are not going to.
I vote. I don’t just vote every 4 years either, and that didn’t just start with Trump. If you don’t understand that more action is required than just voting at this point you need to look up from whatever you have your head stuck in. We are already in uncharted territory and while the rallies are not perfect, they are better than doing nothing and sitting on your hands until the next election.
“They helped make the bed. They can lie in it with the rest of us that didn’t.”
Yes there are a lot of dumb fucks who seriously fucked up the election, and yeah they were wrong on so many levels. This isn’t about being right, or having superior principals. This is actually about survival. The collapse and changes will be violent, and we are so fucking close to changes you can’t even imagine. So grow up, stop complaining about how other people didn’t do enough. It is just a childishly small thing to get hung up on.
DO SOMETHING. Protect yourself, your family, your friends and those that can’t protect themselves.
lol. Naah. We’re done. It’s over. I’m just making sure that those responsible are able to see what they’ve done. See the damage they caused to so many people. They walked lockstep with the trumpers, and now they will suffer alongside them.
Best now to just make sure everyone can recognize them for who they are and properly lay the blame at their feet where it belongs.
Because ALL of this was avoidable.
Now, there’s not much else to do about it.
I really hope you are a TURF account, I would have more faith in humanity at that point, at least that person is doing something.
I didn’t think you are. Your apathy, hate, and small world view combined with you ignorance in how bad situations can get and the privilege to think it can’t happen to you is really sad.
If you are dead set on lying in bed and doing nothing, please do that and shutt the fuck up. Don’t spread shit that only benefits the fascists just because you are to ideologically pure to do something.
I was at the rally! I was one of the last people let inside before they closed the gate, and thousands of people that didn’t get inside watched and listened from outside of the fencing, so the actual number was more than 34,000.
Here’s a photo I took…
And here’s Bernie…
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bernie is an independent. according to america you only want two teams, everyone else will get little to no votes.
It is not that we only WANT two teams. It’s that we only GET two teams. It’s an emergent property of a broken voting system. If somebody in the US says you can’t or shouldn’t vote for another party, that’s their interpretation via some kind of game theory thought process to prevent an even worse choice from winning.
That probably isn’t relevant any longer, and it’s more clear than ever that the system was never improved because it is a great form of control that parties and individuals won’t catch the blame for. Thus all the discussion of “alternative” methods of political change.
They need to organized this momentum into a proper party, maybe call it the labor party or the progress party. But most importantly they need to not be scared to use actural leftist rhetoric and appeal to class conscious workers.
What about Working Families party?
Tbh I dont really take them seriously
Onward Together Party
EverForward Party
Inspired Collaboration Party
Positive Frontier Party
Disagree. There are a huge number of republican working class that need representation, and who are not the enemy.
The anti-1% party is a much more viable proposition than going left vs right.
Anti-1% is left vs right
I don’t believe this is true, the right won the last election but people outside the 1% voted for Trump.
You don’t have to be the 1% to vote for them.
Leftism literally originates from replacing monarchy and aristocracy with democracy, fighting the 1% is leftism.
Like Democrats, many Republicans are just voting for the “lesser evil” and aren’t really loyal to their party. They just hate Democrats.
A new party sidesteps and allows those “lesser evil” Republican working class voters to jump ship. They will not ever vote for a Democrat, so stop being Democrats.
This idea is so simple, and the idea of it changing the course of history would be such a dumb-timeline thing, that I am 100% convinced it would work.
It would give them the ability to talk some harsh shit on Democrats, which could work on some Republicans. But I’d still worry that the effectiveness of their propaganda machine and the tendency of conservatives to fall in line and do as they’re told would spoil it.
The Democrats tried that, they tried appealing to the mythical “centrist conservative” and look where that got them, it has been proven to be a failing strategy. We dont need another “bipartisan” Democrat-like party, we need a workers party.
I’m trying to say that process is made by classifying voters in terms other than left/center/right.
There are only two political classes, those who are class conscious and those who are not. It matters not what word they’re called, only that as many people became class conscious as possible.
I can’t disagree with your definition, but I can’t believe people who are not class conscious always vote republican.
Sometimes they vote Democrat
I mean, I would love that, but if we start running a third party in national elections against the Democrats and Republicans from the left, the Republicans will win even more. If we can’t get FPTP changed I’m afraid the only option I can see is to destroy and rebuild the Democrats.
Well I guess there’s a possibility that when Trump dies the Republicans implode. I’d love to see it but their voters always toe the line. I think this time it will be whoever right wing media decides are the new bosses.
Show me the conservative critique of billionaires. I know how that works on the left, but the right is about preserving power structures
billionaires Don’t Share Our Values™️
QED
Unless one of your values is to take wealth from those that don’t share your values, this is not a critique that will lead to meaningful corrections. I guess that could be a conservative value, but now you’re just doing identity politics.
Bernie is already third party
Why does nobody know anything about American Politics, including the Americans…
Now, this? This is hilarious right here.
Some people think independent is a party. Like the Independent Party. Pretty silly but yeah. That’s why I changed from telling people I was independent to saying I’m unaffiliated with any party.
He’s independent, meaning no party
Because hundreds of millions of dollars are spent to make real information seem as confusing and boring as possible
Honestly, I’m not impressed. This is in DENVER. Take it to a blood red district and show me the numbers. This is not where Dems need to spend their time.
I agree and disagree. They need to pick up a bit of momentum, and “yes men” can help peer pressure the less dogmatic red-teamers to start thinking about their message. Then, once they hit those red states the no-men might show up a bit too and we start getting momentum through them as well
I can really see AOC as president. She’s already at the minimum age, but I would like to see her take another 5-10 years to learn how to broaden her appeal.
she’s spent her entire career broadening her appeal. She went from progressive, to progressive leaning dem, since she’s been in office.
The point is that she went from waitress to congress in 2 years - a giant achievement that at the same time gives her a “rookie” label. It’s not unreasonable that it will take a few more years to become seasoned enough for the presidency in mainstream voters’ minds.
what do you mean? like get some felonies first?
…just a little kiddie diddlin’ so mossad’s comfortable letting her on the inside track…
We don’t have 5-10 years.
we literally have 4 years until the next presidential election. so yeah we do.
4 years < 5-10 years
so we have 4 years but not 5-10?
Seems like an arbitrarily defined break point to me.
4 years isn’t arbitrary; it’s the soonest somebody can run for president.
At the speed this administration’s moving, we might not even have 2 years. We need people who can move quickly, and right now we have people who are barely moving at all.
yeah no shit, that was the argument i literally proposed. But you argued next 5-10 years. And like was previously said, 4 years is less than that.
At the speed this administration’s moving, we might not even have 2 years. We need people who can move quickly, and right now we have people who are barely moving at all.
move quickly to do what? Overthrow the US federal government? Good luck.
Found the project manager.
I’m pretty excited by this AOC/Sanders team up. I’m sure neither are perfect, and will have ideas that I disagree with. But they both have a strong reputation for sticking up for ordinary people rather than the rich and powerful. And no reputation (that I’m aware of!) for bullying, blathering, giving in to the rich, sexual abuse, or miscellaneous awful behaviour.
And a team up between old and young is a powerful thing. Age brings wisdom, to spot things a young person might miss; and youth brings energy, understanding, and new ideas.
AOC for 2028? Judging by other comments, it seems unlikely. But AOC later? If they stay uncompromised, stick to the values that America wants without getting bogged down in things that divide the country, and gather support organically across the country rather than relying on traditional rich-people-funding, this could be an amazing victory!
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Bernie rolled over like a dog for Hillary in 2016, so he does have some marks in giving in to the rich. He himself is also rich, owning multiple million dollar plus homes.
Not trying to be anti-Bernie, he’s great and pushing for great things. I was feeling the Bern back in 2016. But we should always go into things eyes open and as informed as we can be.
He has a net worth of 3 million dollars in his eighties. I get that he isn’t poor but that’s peanuts for someone that was likely getting property for pennies on the dollar compared to what property costs now days. Him having 3 million net worth in his eighties doesn’t make him rich, everyone else in America not having a clear path to have 3 million in net worth to show for their time and effort after a lifetime contributing to society to enjoy or pass on to their dependents or important causes is the failure.
I agree she would be amazing, but Bernie won’t be around long enough for that team-up. He’s already a year older than Biden. The Dems need to cultivate a lot more younger politicians. They should have been going hard at this years ago.
And no reputation (that I’m aware of!) for bullying
Ask Jill Stein about that.
AOC for 2028? Judging by other comments, it seems unlikely.
Well, right now it seems unlikely that Trump will ever leave the White House under any circumstances. I don’t think you properly appreciate what’s going on here. If even a centrist like AOC still makes you go “Hhhmmm, I’m not sure if she’s ready yet…maybe another cycle or two…” while the country dives head-first into fascism, I don’t know what’s going to wake you up. Probably nothing.
I want her to start running right now. Fascism is here, we can’t afford to wait.
So do I, but I wouldn’t expect her to win right now. Americans are too lazy to want change but they’ll want to be rescued from collapse. Things have to get a lot worse before enough fence-sitters will listen to her.
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We’ll have an election. North Korea has elections. My fear is we’ll have a Hungarian or Venezuelan style election.
“Amazing! 95% of voters voted to give Donald Trump a third term in office!”
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Assuming there are real elections in 5-10 years
As to her age, if she can learn to trust wise people around her, she can do much better than an old person with experience who only sees things their own way! For that reason it might be better to run soon if possible, to have the wisdom of Sanders with her. Hopefully there’s other wise people she trusts to mentior/advise her as well.
Her abilities aren’t the issue, the public’s perception is. I don’t think enough people will accept that she’s been on the scene long enough to be president.
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It’s also pretty funny to say that she needs to “broaden her appeal” when she’s already drawing tens of thousands of people without even running a presidential campaign.
Are you ready for a Miracle? Ready as I can be!
How many billionaires did they kill?
Literally my first thought. All other avenues have been exhausted.
I fear for her safety. I hope she stays safe.
