- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- australia@aussie.zone
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- australia@aussie.zone
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Anti-Porn people are fascists PERIOD, oh I heard they (as in the group) like cuties.
We need to document these low-lives & make sure they never get employed ever again. (Because it’s what they’d do)
How is being against porn and the porn industry fascism? There are genuine reason to be against porn and it doesn’t have anything to do with fascism. Actually if you think that saying that porn is bad is a fascist statement you are actually portraying fascism in a good light and making them look like they are the most reasonable people. Also “you heard”, “I heard”, those statements mean nothing unless you can prove it.
TERFs are evidence in itself
TERFs are anti-porn?
Yes
That makes sense then that women don’t want to be sexualized and objectified by porn just so perverts can pleasure themselves to their bodies. All the more reason to be against pornography. Women deserve better.
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It’s the truth though. That’s what it does and if you don’t see it yourself then you need some help like seriously because it means you are not even aware of it. Rather than watching porn you can do something productive or do something else you enjoy. Or if you have a wife then you know, do it with her. And if you don’t then maybe go and find one. It’s hard to tell if most people here are addicted or not when they get so triggered when you don’t approve of it. It’s just not healthy at all mentally, you can look it up there has been plenty of studies done on it and the harmful effects it has on your brain. It has even been compared to cocaine and meth.
Yeah, and we all know that women actually don’t like sex, they only want romance and children. They’re all almost asexual beings unless becoming porn and sex addicts. Meanwhile all men are sex-thirsty animals, that only pretend to be in love, so they can get to the fun part. /s
Oh they do like it but that wasn’t my point. My point was that’s how they are often treated by others and porn addiction or just watching it plays a big role in that. Just stop watching other people having sex.
These “feminists” have connections to TERFs, anti-LGBTQ+ groups, and the same NCOSE, that when it was called Morality in Media, labeled non-sexual representation of interracial couples as “pornography”.
If we’re at right-wing appropriation of leftist talking points, then you can also let chuds to call black protagonists in video-games the hard-R N-word, and let them harass indie video game devs until they remove said characters, all in the name or “being anti-corporate”. Maybe even let big AI corporations to scrape intellectual property and then profit off from it, displacing millions of workers (hopefully only until the hype lasts), because “patent trolls” and “Disney has enough copyrighted material to create their own model” (that argument relies on speculation, that a future model can work off of less data, but still creating good results).
“Porn” is extremely broad. There’s plenty of perfectly ethical porn around. Most major producers have pretty strong standards these days. It’s not the same industry as it was 10 years ago.
But in this specific case they went after a porn game, not featuring real people. There’s basically no real harm here. People occasionally argue that porn addiction is a problem, but that’s mostly an addiction problem, which goes for most addictions. The thing addicted too isn’t the problem, it’s the very nature of being addicted that’s causing the issue.
It’s fine of course to dislike porn, but to effectively ban people from producing and consuming it is an entirely different matter. That does seem like a massive encroachment on individual rights to me.
But in this specific case they went after a porn game, not featuring real people. There’s basically no real harm here.
Just to make sure, this is the game you are defending and think there is no harm to people being exposed or reinforcing this view of women:
In this game, you’ll either become every woman’s worst nightmare… or rather: the best dick they’ll ever have. Your goal is simple: leave no pussy non-fucked, since that’s the only thing they all want. Never take ‘no’ for an answer.
Fuck your mom, fuck your auntie, and even fuck your friend’s mom. Why not?
Take what’s yours and show No Mercy.
Could you please be realy clear: You don’t see any problem with this?
I can think it’s a messed up fantasy, but that doesn’t mean it should immediately be banned by a payment processor.
Regardless, there are tons of studies showing that consuming this kind of porn actually helps prevent people from acting on these fantasies. The net result is likely less sexual abuse, not more. Because it’s fantasy media, it likely is able to keep the fantasy a fantasy, it gives people an outlet.
there are tons of studies
Show me a meta study that supports this claim, please. Not a single study, but something that looks at those alleged thousands of studies and comes to the conclusion you are implying here.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32691692/
Population studies suggested that increased availability of pornography is associated with reduced sexual aggression at the population level
More studies with improved practices and preregistration would be welcome.
Next sentence
Also:
Whether pornography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real.
Also also this study has nothing to do with your claim. Its not about porn preventing violent behaviour, it’s about whether porn causes it or not.
I bet they’re one of those weirdos that wants to outlaw erotic fanfic too.
What even is ethical porn? And what you consider “ethical” is just your subjective opinion.
Porn made with the willing consent of all parties involved, where everyone is compensated appropriately. No harm = no ethical problems as far as I’m concerned. Most big studios these days make sure of this. But there have also been pioneers that push the bar further up (e.g. Lustery, Ersties or Erika Lust).
So if a father and daughter consent is that ethical now?
There is a clear power disparity between a father and a daughter. It’s debatable if the daughter could even realistically consent in that case.
But a depiction of it in porn is in my view not inherently unethical. I can disapprove of it personally, but that doesn’t mean we should start banning it based on feelings of inappropriateness.
We depict murder and violence in movies and video games too. Actual murder is of course not exactly ethical, but we have no problem accepting it in a movie, because nobody is actually being murdered. You might not like to watch a movie like Saw or something (I personally don’t), but it doesn’t make the movie itself unethical. To me, porn is no different. There’s a clear separation between fiction and reality.
Where imo a line is crossed, is if said media actually makes a clear effort to promote these acts IRL. But that’s not the case here.
What if the daughter is in their 20s or 30s? As for depiction, yes there are depiction of violence and murder in movies and games but it is not done in a way that glorify it and most people don’t watch it with thirst for murder and violence and they don’t get off to it either. The problem with porn is it’s made with that in mind, it only exist for people to lust after and get off to it. In many circumstances they are always trying to look for more extreme content because the normal stuff isn’t as satisfying anymore. It has been shown to affect the same area of the brain as meth and cocaine. It doesn’t cause harm physically but mentally. Sure a thing existing doesn’t make it inherently wrong but it more the effect it has on the people consuming the content. It’s also why drugs are bad. You could say the drug is just a plant, that it’s natural and that there is nothing wrong with that plant existing. But the problem is the effect that plant has on people who consume it. And I am not against you drawing something in private at home or anything, in fact I am strictly against spying and mass surveillance and people should all have privacy in their own home and place they live. So whatever you do on your own time by yourself alone I don’t care but the problem comes when that thing gets shared with others and affects them negatively.
Nothing says antifa like the commercialised exploitation of women
What exploitation ? When the same group also plays those porn games😂
Arguing that porn doesn’t exploit women because there are women who consume porn is just as dumb as arguing that porn does exploit women because there are women who don’t consume porn.
Funny to see this posted by a user named “Incel migrant”. 😄
inclement immigrant.
In Clem ent immigrant
We got us a tree man penetrating Clem
Sounds like a Harry Potter spell
… that’s not their username though?
Poor Clement
I chuckled.
“Incel mint immigrant” might have worked better since it doubles down on misreading the name, but I only thought of it because yours backfired ;)
How did you manage to miss the other six letters?
We see what we expect to see
Lowkey opening up a market for an adult game store that takes crypto for payment
I don’t know why you couldn’t just load money into your steam wallet.
They weren’t pushing for credit card processors to block payments for specific games. They were pushing for the payment processors to block money to Steam entirely, which is why Steam caved and instead removed a small list of games. It was a compromise to allow credit card companies to keep doing business with them. Overall it’s pretty small potatoes–a small but vocal group, a small and worthless collection of games. People are understandably worried about the precedent of giving in to censorship at the demand of a group like this, but there are enough things to worry about right now that I’m not going to give it much thought until I hear the slope has slipped further than this.
Simple fix is to call in suspicion of child porn on their computers. Their statement look a lot like projection to me.
yeah it’s hard to come to any other conclusion on people who constantly think and talk about pedophilia unprompted.
Because you have allowed the social discourse to be dominated by authoritarians, and have not supported the voices of your fellows that fight against fascism, you are now being overrun by fascists.
Enjoy. You have no one to blame but yourselves.
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Absolutely, and the scary part to me is how that projection includes LGBT folks also being child predators all the damn time.
It’s like they are a bunch of bisexual pedophiles who are repressed and angry, and they get jealous when they see other people giving in to the same desires. Or, as we see all the time, they assume somebody “giving in” to their homosexuality or gender dysphoria is also “giving in” to their pedophilia.
I don’t know how Collective Shout aren’t seen as more of a pariah group here like Westboro Baptist Church are in America.
I had a look at their website.
They have campaigned against games that normalize incest and sexual abuse. The first campaign, that led to this one, was against a game called No mercy.
The description, according to their website, is:
In this game, you’ll either become every woman’s worst nightmare… or rather: the best dick they’ll ever have. Your goal is simple: leave no pussy non-fucked, since that’s the only thing they all want. Never take ‘no’ for an answer.
Fuck your mom, fuck your auntie, and even fuck your friend’s mom. Why not?
Take what’s yours and show No Mercy.
Following that they campaigned against other games promoting sexual violence and incest.
Following our successful campaign and 70k petition to get rape simulation game No Mercy pulled from gaming platform Steam, we discovered almost 500 other games depicting rape, incest, sexual torture and child abuse.
How is this a bad thing? Do you lot just hear anti-porn and start foaming around your mouth?
Targeting payment processors to force change within a business often leads to overreaction. That’s how we got Onlyfans announcing that it was banning porn entirely. Visa, MasterCard, and PayPal become quite unreasonable when these groups start gaining traction.
This same group pushed to get Detroit: Become Human pulled because it has the player controlling a victim of abuse protecting another victim. There is zero nuance to their target choices. If they get pull with payment processors, they can go “this is a child abuse simulator!” and get something like that pulled with less public support behind them.
There is zero nuance to their target choices.
Zero nuance is what this thread is filled with.
One does not need to agree with everything they do or did. In fact, i don’t. But getting games that are clearly catering to rapist fantasies pulled off steam, is something i see as very positive.
not sure anyone thinks the problem here is that these particular games are getting taken down, the larger context and efforts of this group are concerning as it etablishes precedent for them to take the next step in their anti-trans and anti-gay agenda …
Downthread there are some people arguing pro rape and incest games.
I am not defending the group. When (likely not even if) they go against LGBTQI+ games i will happily speak up against that. But in this case they are not wrong, and i am okay with pointing that out. Look at the level of hate in this thread. For banning incest and rape games…
When they move to anti trans stuff and we give them flak, they will rightfully say “Oh, it’s those gamers again. Last time they defended rape games. No need to listen to them.”
huh, scrolling through the comments I mostly see comments calling them out for being TERFs, I’m not really seeing any defense of the games themselves.
Excuse me if I’m a bit sensitive, though - I’m both gay and trans, so this group in particular is dangerous to me and I don’t really care if the broken clock is right twice a day, I think it’s best to call the clock broken.
We don’t have any argument here, though - we agree that vile games are vile and it’s good they’re gone.
Do you have trouble differentiating between fiction and reality?
Can I demand racing games be banned because they promote CO2 emissions?
No. Do you think fiction about rapeing women is’nt a problem? Have you considered the idea that exposing oneself to said fiction could reinforce a violent and objectifying view of womem? Or normalize rape and sexual violence?
Can I demand racing games be banned because they promote CO2 emissions?
No, and thankfully this is a complete strawman. If one wanted to make that analogy, it might point out how racing games might normalize speeding.
No. I don’t think that. In fact, research says access to porn reduces sex violence.
i agree with that research, and i agree with where you’re coming from but i’m not sure you can apply the same research to violence. there’s an argument that it gives people an outlet, but afaik also people that commit these crimes often escalate. making it easier for them to try out their fantasy could easily mean they escalate faster
Citation?
this suggests that skill level plays a part in escalation. i’d argue that refining the “fantasy” is absolutely part of that (the same is true of the psychology of all fetishes: you start with something you’re not sure you’re into, and as you refine what it is about it you like you can dive deeper)
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0093854813485575
this paper suggests that both thrill seeking and self control have different impacts on people’s desire to commit crime
And again, a stawman.
We are talking about rape porn (games) normalizing sexual violence.
This article is not talking about rape porn. By the way, it is an article from 2016 who uses studies from 2011 and younger. Here is a Meta analysis of the timeframe, suggesting that many stdies suffert from a metholodical weekness.
The question, if violent porn causes sexual violence is debated, but as of now simply not enoth good studys exist to confirm or denie such a link.
This study, for example, hints towards it. It is also a good example for methodological muddiness though:
Data was collected from 247 college men who completed self-report surveys at baseline, 4-month, and 7-month intervals. Higher gender inequitable attitudes, greater problems with alcohol use, and lower levels of responsibility assigned to men for rape mediated the relation between exposure to violent pornography at baseline and endorsement of sexually coercive behavior at the 7-month. Findings highlight the need to address pornography literacy in sexual assault prevention programs for college men.
I can only repeat: there is evidence towards violent porn causing violent behauvior, but it is weak and more studys are needed. Untilh then both of our standpoints are just opinions. Either of us might be right. Personaly, i wouldn’t risk it.
Because letting extremely biased ideological groups dictate worldwide policy is always a bad thing that comes with negative consequences.
I’m not personally familiar with any of the games in this ban wave, but Steam’s stance prior is that these games are free expression of art, made by adults and it’s not Steam’s job to police art. If a group does want to impose limitations on art on a worldwide storefront - that should be a national limitation performed by an appropriate body - Australia already has a stringent games rating system, and if these games do not meet any approved standards they would be hit with ‘Refused Classification’ and thereby restricted to be sold (banned from sale or import) to Australia and Steam would region block them for sale to Aus. As is the case for many games already.
However, this group deemed following the appropriate channels too much work, so instead went for a Karen smear campaign of the payment processors on social media - stating that they supported the sale of rape and incest games (simply by working with Steam), thereby pressuring the payment processors to put lobby Steam to remove the games entirely as the easiest path for Steam to avoid financial processing impacts.
I see where you are coming from. I still think that it is a net positive that they got rid of those games. I quoted the description of one game above. That aint no art. That is just the glorification of rape. And i’m glad it’s gone. Glad it’s gone everywhere in fact, not just in Australia.
Are these good people? Rather not. I still have to see them campaign against queer or trans folk, but seeing their connections that is a valid fear to have.
I will fight for diversity, in any form, beeing part of gaming culture. But i won’t cry a single tear about games that have a glorification of rape and incest as their main topic.
https://www.collectiveshout.org/ is the group.
https://www.collectiveshout.org/our_team and https://www.collectiveshout.org/collective_shout_board_members - Ensure their names and faces haunt them for every job they go for next.
https://www.collectiveshout.org/partners - Let them know your unhappy with this group that they are supporting.
“Our (winning!) campaign calling on payment processors including Visa and Mastercard to stop processing payments for rape and incest games available on Steam and other platforms has received global media attention.”
Well that is not what I was expecting to find on their site…
Did no one play “Detroit Become Incestual Rapist”?
Nah I was too busy with “epstein island adventure: the trump files”
It seems like politics is more likely to turn someone into a rapist than video games will.
Well when you write policy anything is possible.
Something about the ability to control leads the possibility of abuse.
“Campaign Against Sex Robots”
They have sex robots down there?
This group is shooting for very easy targets and they celebrate like they’ve won hard battles. It’s self indulgent but ultimately unimportant, nothing of value was lost here. If they keep it up long enough and choose a target people are actually willing to fight for, things might turn out differently.
So bunch of grannies are behind it. Do they even play games ?
https://www.collectiveshout.org/collective_shout_board_memberspeople who play games usually don’t have time for shit like this and would rather play games in their free time. that’s why whenever you see people shriek about “wokeness” in games it’s always a bunch of incels who clearly never play them. they’re posers.
Im personally tired of all this incest shit everywhere so I’m down for it.
It’s the wrong way to go about it though. Private companies should not dictate legality and morality.
I wouldn’t mind if Valve did. It’s the unaccountable payment processors deciding morality that’s spooky, because there’s no meaningful alternative.
Oh yeah, I agree. That is what I meant to meant to say. The payment processors are acting like a cartel here.
“Australian anti-porn group has too much power.”
Talk about braindead / misguided legislature.
what the fuck
All I wanna know is how fucked up and perverted the porn that they watch is. Anyone taking this hard of a stand against something surely must be projecting.
I’m so sorry everyone
