- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
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Lol @ america being the only non-chinese country in the world
Yeah, so prepare for battle between people who want to tell you that their empire is better.
I might be killed, but seeing the comments i feel like lemmy is getting too into the zone of umm like judging the action based on the person instead of judging the action/statement itself, yeah the US gov is a piece of shit, and also they probably don’t have the peoples best interest in mind, but the act of banning tiktok, according to me, is a right move, i can see nd myself have felt the humongous mental impact it has on teens (like me) basically killing their attention span, and making them feel like they need to pick up their phone, heck kids cant read 10pages from their physics book, infact reading a page only thoroughly is a tough task for most of them, and i m not talking abt a few select cases, i can see this in 95% of kids (this is anecdotal tho), ever since i stopped using reels/tiktoks/shorts, i can feel my mind improving
Also the whole slew of misinformation and propaganda tiktok is, is another issue
Again I agree with ppl that the US doesn’t hv the ppls best interest, but i do feel this might help atleast some ppl break their addiction, so many I know are aware they r addicted but can’t stop, banning the app altogether might help
Disinformation.
TikTok has been under control of the State Dept for years, since TikTok transferred custody of US servers to Oracle. The ban is to force a sale to a US competitor, and decrease transparency on censorship activities, especially regarding Palestine and pro-communism material.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/tiktok-chinese-trojan-horse-run-by-state-department-officials/284353/
Tiktok got banned not for peddling “chinese propaganda” but instead not peddling the US one.
All the major tech companies in the US take measures to ensure content deemed unworthy by the government never become mainstream or viral.
This is done under the pretense of stopping “hate speech” or “terroristic propaganda” but often include things like pro-palestinian content or class struggle content (like luigi mangione stuff).
Tiktok was bold enough to not do that by default, cuz they wanted someone to ask them to do this and then it would become a huge scandal about how the US suppresses free speech. And US gov don’t want to do that for this exact reason as well. So they decided to ban it.
Remember talks for this “law” were initiated when all of a sudden tiktok became a host for pro-palestinian voices. We should ask ourselves, how is it that 60% of americans want the government to stop arms sales to israel but this 60% never shows up on the big social media platforms. But on other platforms like here in lemmy and tiktok, pro-palestinians is the majority.
For further reading, listen to employees fired from big US tech companies for voicing their concerns over the palestine issue, or read Meta’s new terms and conditions specially the section on “dangerous organizations and individuals”.
Ah yes, TikTok, the land free of censorship. Where you can’t say “gay” and must insert a stupid little asterisk.
I didn’t say tiktok is the bastion of free speech. They only do this in the Palestinian case because it does not serve them anything to be against palestine. We can criticise one party without making the other one some kind of “moral hero” of a story.
The user you are answering to isn’t making “the other party” any kind of moral hero, it’s literally just criticizing TikTok.
They track the location of people in the US and gather large amounts of data. They didn’t get banned for refusing to spread US propaganda.
So does facebook, twitter, google, microsoft, and pretty much every mobile app development shop.
Not to defend tiktok (to this day I have not ever used it), but if the issue is the tracking and data collection, you could ban/regulate that specifically instead of singling out the app.
It is obvious that they want the other (US-based) companies to be able to continue collecting that data so they can gain access to it if they want/need it. It’s bullshit, but it’s clearly what they want.
But that being bullshit does not mean that they are wrong in not wanting the one that is under the control of a foreign adversary having access to that data. Two separate things.
And the US social media companies are filled with spooks.
Ding ding ding
hankie hugger, yall ain’t gonna win this one
False dichotomy. They could’ve been banned on legitimate pretenses AND other reasons threatening power.
If they were legitimately only banned for “tracking the location in the US and gathering large amounts of data”, then just about every single social media service would be under investigation for the same reason. But do we currently see that happening?
Of all the social media popular in the US, only one of them is doing that tracking and is under the thumb of a foreign adversary. That is specifically the line drawn in the law. I’m actually curious if WeChat shouldn’t fall under it too?
They’re owned by a Chinese company so the Chinese govt has this information. I’m not saying it’s a good reason to ban it, or that there isn’t another secret reason, or that American companies don’t gather the same information. This was the problem all along - China receiving vast amounts of information about Americans. Actually the US was probably worried about China spreading their viewpoints, now that I think more about it. IDK
If they were legitimately only banned for “tracking the location in the US and gathering large amounts of data”, then just about every single social media service would be under investigation for the same reason.
We aren’t talking about TikTok simply gathering the information though, are we?
But yes, absolutely. Let’s do it. And we know that: just because the other companies aren’t being investigated/regulated in the same way, does not mean that it shouldn’t happen at all. That’s not how it works.
Also, you are making a fallacious argument yourself… If we were talking about banning US social media sites in China, then the comparison holds (and even then, it’s not 1:1 given the political structure of the CCP vs. that of the US). Otherwise, TikTok is clearly unique among them in that the Chinese Government ostensibly has access to any and all information that is being collected.
There is a reason China made their own version Facebook. Because they don’t want us to have all that information on their citizens.
As does all the American owned networks. That’s not the reason. Not pushing American propaganda is the reason.
That’s what they’re telling you, and since when are they telling the truth?
I think aliens did it.
Facebook does the same tracking and data harvesting. Is Facebook up to be banned? It isn’t the tracking and data harvesting.
Person 1: I think it’s because the tracking and data harvesting
Person 2: that’s an obvious lie (see above)
You: I think aliens did it
Shut up alien
These are very loose terms. Pretty much every major website saves IP addresses when you create an account (to prevent abuse/spam detection). And you can get location info from the IP address. Hence the first condition would be true for all of those websites.
Next, any website/app that builds a recommendation system will save user interactions to build the “algorithm”. So every social media with an algorithm will fall into this category.
With enough bending of terminology, we might be able to prove that the lemmy also collects user data (although it will be really hard cuz the algo here is based on upvotes and time posted iirc). And “large amount” part is just legal filler words.
Thank god for bold platforms like TikTok that refuse to push US propaganda. Really smart of them to not censor valuable information as a way of fooling the US government into exposing its evil censorship ways. TikTok’s fate in the US was never a topic before the current wave of pro-Palestinian activism started. It certainly wasn’t one of Trump’s main talking points ten years ago. Good thing he changed his mind after getting his hands on
some Chinese moneylucrative investmenet from Chinese citizens that are not at all connected to Tencent.None of this discourse on combatting foreign information manipulation started over a decade ago, its all about censoring pro-Palestine voices here and now. TikTok and China in general are known for their calm, collected attitudes toward Muslims. They certainly would never weaponize a contentious topic every which way imaginable in pursuit of financial and geopolitical goals. We need more of these open and bold platforms.
I wasn’t sure this was an actual a tankie rant or sarcasm until the
TikTok and China in general are known for their calm, collected attitudes toward Muslims
Yuppp. Newsflash, Chinese government is committing a genocide against the Uighur peoples
Its just another troll. You give them labels like tankie but they are just trolls.
Know what the other “tell” is? They write a wall of text. Big thick paragraphs. It’s a thing, start looking for it.
Who? People with a lot to say?
& when you call them out they want to lead you down this endless response chain. You wonder if they get bonuses for it
Oh yeah, nothing like hallucinating that everyone you talk to is an enemy, and when they complain, well that just proves it.
No, that’s neurodivergence.
I feel seen. LOL
I feel like with all the posts I ramble on (and TRY to pare down) in Lemmy, I could just have easily had a somewhat healthy blog going by now…that nobody would read because it wasn’t on Medium or some other monolith. XD
It’s outright shadowbanned at best and straight up banned at the isp level at worst.
That’s why tik tok is getting banned, because US spooks can’t control it.
I wonder if op has a strong opinion about china.
In this house, we only like propaganda that’s covering up genocide. /s
China also covers up genocides… as does the US… As does Russia, as does almost every nation-state.
The Tiktok ban was mainly instigated because tiktok spread news about the genocide in Gaza
China has its genocides going on to ya know
Nice whataboutism, I guess?
In that case, “in this house” we like Tiktok?
I happen to like that tiktok spreads information about the genocide in Gaza, which is being shadowbanned on the western platforms.
Context is important. The current context of the tiktok ban is that it’s hard for the US to control the political message with that big of a platform not under US control.
I happen to dislike censorship, even if it is done by the west.
I happen to like that tiktok spreads information about the genocide in Gaza,
So in the interest of that, you chose to deny that Tiktok is used to push CCP propaganda.
which is being shadowbanned on the western platforms.
Some of the Western platforms run by billionaires, yes, whom I explicitly compared to the CCP in the original comment.
Context is important. The current context of the tiktok ban is that it’s hard for the US to control the political message with that big of a platform not under US control.
You think it’s the US government which is pushing Facebook and Twitter to censor Palestinian voices?
I happen to dislike censorship, even if it is done by the west.
But you’ll tolerate it, if it pushes one view you do like? Or just if it’s not done by the West?
So in the interest of that, you chose to deny that Tiktok is used to push CCP propaganda.
There’s a difference in not knowing and denying.
Some of the Western platforms run by billionaires, yes, whom I explicitly compared to the CCP in the original comment.
Yeah, when you ignored the context of the OP.
You think it’s the US government which is pushing Facebook and Twitter to censor Palestinian voices?
Are you always this nitpicky?
But you’ll tolerate it, if it pushes one view you do like? Or just if it’s not done by the West?
No. I prefer a wide range of different news sources where I can judge the biases. I can still get good information from Tiktok if I know that I should be critical concerning anything about China’s policy.
So you’d prefer it if Facebook/Twitter/Google/Microsoft/Amazon are the only ones in control of mass online discourse? (That’s the type of strawman you’re constructing of me)
There’s a difference in not knowing and denying.
As I said elsewhere, knowing it but still denying it, is considerably worse than being ignorant or confused.
Yeah, when you ignored the context of the OP.
… what context in the OP did I ignore?
Are you always this nitpicky?
This is what you said:
The current context of the tiktok ban is that it’s hard for the US to control the political message with that big of a platform not under US control.
I didn’t realize that it was nitpicky to dispute a point.
No. I prefer a wide range of different news sources where I can judge the biases. I can still get good information from Tiktok if I know that I should be critical concerning anything about China’s policy.
You shouldn’t be getting any of your information directly from social media. Furthermore, propaganda is like advertising - you are not immune to it. The “I’m too smart to be fooled” approach just makes you a mark.
So you’d prefer it if Facebook/Twitter/Google/Microsoft/Amazon are the only ones in control of mass online discourse? (That’s the type of strawman you’re constructing of me)
I would prefer it if none of them did, and if Facebook or Twitter or Google catches a ban, I won’t be defending them as news sources which don’t spread propaganda, “and if they did, so what?”
The United Nations Human Rights Council doesn’t seem to think so. It put this to bed two years ago. https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-china/news/setback-for-the-west-un-body-rejects-historic-debate-on-chinas-human-rights-record/
You should actually read that article and not just the title. What happened there was entirely political.
Americans complaining about other countries meddling in their affairs is such a hilarious hypocrisy. You guys have been the worst for ruining other countries around the world.
Jokes on you, I use lemmy
On Arch tho?
I’m pretty sure the NSA and its chinese counterpart never heard about ActivityPub.
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They out here. Both of them. This post smells just like one tbh.
? Who’s out here?
The people that countries pay to pretend to be normal everyday users in order to spread state propaganda?
Edit: in this case ‘both’ refers to the image particularly portraying two countries
That’s not what the meme is about. It’s about the company collecting data and giving it to their government
Edit: and adjusting the algorithm to their favor
Jokes on you, I use lemmy
Literally made by communists
Jokes on you, you use it too
I’m impervious to communism, comrade.
edit fuck!
i like my all-american freedom and liberty data collection and propaganda
FreeDumb™️
As if any of the other social media networks aren’t doing the same shit. I’d rather have China spy on me than an American company. They can’t use my data to fuck me over.
I mean, yeah they can. Anyone with data on you could fuck you over. In fact, the more data, the easier to fuck you over.
China cannot put me in jail. The US can.
Maybe I should have worded it differently. They’re far less likely to fuck me over. I have nothing the Chinese government wants.
Nah they want your money and attention same as the Americans
I will say that being from Latin america I am fundamentally less scared of China than I am scared of the US. The US took my country’s future from us twice, both times in living memory, and one I was already around for.
While the worst thing China has done here is uhhh
Buy land to open a factory in our sovereign soil and illegally mistreat workers in that factory.
Really not anywhere near the same level as backing two far right coups.
I found it interesting that this Tiktok regulation talk hit peak fervor around the time that youths were using tiktok to fully grasp the severity of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians in Gaza. Meanwhile mainstream corporate media was painting a very different and dishonest story of the genocide.
We need broad regulation for social media in the US, not cherry picked fervor for political reasons.
That was the catalyst that made them realize they didn’t have the sway to control the narrative on tik Tok and that they had to destroy it.
Problem is that insta also had the same content and plenty of folks saw it there too but the focus was on Chinese influence.
It was being taken down on insta.
They already knew they could control zuckyboy though.
Yet they had the excuse and idiots like op are cheering on their censorship
Actual privacy laws like the Eu? Nah let’s just make an american version of the Great Firewall.
“It’s okay that the CCP pushes propaganda because billionaires do it too” - Tiktok defenders
What kind of propaganda is the CGP pushing, exactly? Is it with us in the room, right now?
This has been known for years.
I promise, the CCP does not need you to play devil’s advocate; they advocate plenty well for themselves.
The researchers found that while TikTok might not deliver more pro-CCP content, it did deliver less anti-CCP content than the rival platforms.
Umm, that’s not really propaganda, homie. That’s simple censorship. There’s a difference.
The very next thing said in the article:
The team next looked at engagement to see if this explained why anti-CCP content was performing less well. But it found that TikTok users “liked or commented on anti-CCP content nearly four times as much as they liked or commented on pro-CCP content, yet the search algorithm produced nearly three times as much pro-CCP content”. This didn’t happen on Instagram or YouTube.
Yes. I already said it was censorship. Again: how is this pro-CCP propaganda? Do you understand the difference between censorship and propaganda?
Yes. I already said it was censorship. Again: how is this pro-CCP propaganda? Do you understand the difference between censorship and propaganda?
If you don’t think that suppressing content that goes against a point of view whilst simultaneously boosting content that agrees with a point of view is propaganda, I suppose you must think Twitter’s recent developments over the past two years (or so? Time is getting fuzzy) are not a propaganda effort either.
Dude is just arguing semantics, that “propaganda” necessarily has to be a misleading message in favor of its sender.
Of course, tailoring of information by omission is also propaganda.
My point is: if we all would use a more broad definition of the term propaganda, instead of calling nothing but political messaging we didn’t like propaganda, we’d all live in a more politically literate society.
I think this meme actively reduces media literacy.
The first one is NCRI and the second one is paywalled.
NCRI is known for hit songs like -
Colleges that deplatform conservatives are anti-semitic;
DEI causes violence, and my favorite;
Luigi Mangione’s support means the left are digital insurgents
The paper referenced gives an overview of its methodology and its data.
The three ‘hit songs’ you cite appear to actually be:
and
- Glorification of Luigi Mangione could result in a feedback loop of violence like 4chan did with the alt-right (I agree, but I don’t see it as necessarily a bad thing)
Use https://12ft.io/ to bypass the paywall if you’re interested in past discourse on the matter.
Lol, fair play, I editorialized the titles too. But really once you click into them it’s super obvious these guys have an axe to grind. For example, (from the relevant paper) they state that serving up less Anti CCP content is a bias. But they compare it to YouTube and Instagram. Two services pretty famous for taking people down far right tracks if you let their algorithm auto play. So in this case even a neutral position is going to have less Anti-CCP propaganda.
And the entire paper is flawed in this way. The baseline they establish is itself flawed. They also claim causation but can only show correlation with their skewed baseline.
Yea, they were comparing tiktok to other american-owned social media sites, which are guilty of exactly the same thing themselves.
Any site that doesn’t explicitly push anti chinese content is going to look like a pro-chinese bias
Reader’s Note - There has been no evidence submitted showing any of the allegations towards TikTok are true. In fact TikTok publicly embarked on a project to silo all US Data.
Lol, I don’t give a shit about tik tok, I’m more worried about the First Amendment implications.
They could just declare Lemmy instances to be “foreign propaganda” and ban every instance they don’t like.
(there are several people in this thread who would not mind banning certain lemmy instances on this basis)
OK, but find me an exact quote that actually says that. Not something that sorta sounds like that, but that exactly.
Why is there so much political messaging right now
Fuck off with all the democracy doomsday posting, I just want to see funny memes
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Just the usual Americans thinking the world revolves around them and we should all accommodate their derangement.
God forbid a foreigner talk about anything though.
The last panel applies to every other social media, just replace the spying country.
The last panel also hurts us - fellow non-americans :(
Lemmy begs to differ
There are multiple instances pushing propaganda and most data can just be scraped by bots. It may be harder, but capitalism finds a way.
The multiple instances:
That last part is becoming less and less relevant … someone is spying but it isn’t for the benefit or under the control of a country. More and more, the spying is meant more for the purposes of commerce and finance, for money and control. For business interests which is what major governments mainly represent.
And it doesn’t matter who or why, either - as soon as someone hoards other people’s data, someone else will try to steal it.
surveillance capitalism…
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Reminds of my favourite description of the US …
“The US isn’t a country, it’s a corporation with a military”
And as soon as the government wants it, most companies hand it right over.
Right? Now do Facebook.
Yes, and that’s why US companies aren’t banned by the US. The foreign power having so much propaganda power was the danger.
So if an American company collects user data and sells it on the open market to a hostile foreign nation, and accepts money to run propaganda, that’s A-OK?
That capitalism baby! I suppose Congress can at least control who Facebook et al. are selling to through sanctions and such.
They could but they haven’t, so this ban is just racist economic protectionism.
I’m not sure what race has to do with economic protectionism, but it’s really a combination of all of the above.
Same reason why China bans a shitload of sites. It’s fine when you do it to your own citizens
If I wanna get my propaganda from more than one world power, that’s my right under the first amendment. Or it was.
