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EU is moving full steam ahead toward the end of “private” computers and mandatory state surveillance on your devices. They’ll be delighted with that. The funky “hey, we’re consumer friendly” times are over.
EU: Thank you Google for complying with the DSA.
This is a a huge part of it, the whole “prevent illegal” parts.
- “easier reporting of illegal content”
- “less exposure to illegal content”
- “level-playing field against providers of illegal content”
The EU isn’t going to punish them for this, they will hold this up as the golden standard.
Just as they did with Apple when they forced them to allow sideloading? So yeah, the EU will push massively against this if its implemented there.
You mean when they forced Apple to implement the “trusted trader” scheme.
No, i mean when they forced apple to open their IOS system to side loading custom, unverified apps.
Here, have a read:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/117767
The trusted trader scheme only applies if you want to distribute your app via the official apple iOS app store.
The DSA requires people offering apps (“traders”) to provide certain information. For example: address, email, and phone number must be made public. When Apple introduced that, this also caused some outrage and calls for EU regulation. Despite the fact that this was exactly the regulation called for. Hence, why I mentioned that trusted trader scheme.
Google may be legally required to do this. I’m not sure how the DSA is to be interpreted on this. It’s certainly not a stretch (see Article 31). It’s out of touch to believe the EU will push against this.
Okay aber schau mal. Die EU hat Apple Verklagt und gezwungen, Nicht-Registrierte, nicht gemeldete Apps und sogar Appstores auf IOS verfügbar zu machen. Für die Apps dort muss niemand irgendwas angeben, du kannst dir einfach irgendeine App von Github kopieren und auf deinem IPhone ausführen, dank dem Urteil von vor c.a. 10 Monaten.
Warum sollte dann jetzt, wenn Google das Sideloaden von Custom Apps streichen möchte, die EU plötzlich fein damit sein? Ich meine, sie haben in einem langen Prozess Apple dazu gezwungen, genau das zu ermöglichen und die Monopolstellung als einziger App-Distributor angeklagt.
Und das spannende ist ja: Diese Entscheidung wurde nach August 2023 getroffen, also nach der offiziellen Einführung und Anwendung des DSA. Heißt: Hier wurde entschieden das Sideloaden kein Bruch des DSA’s darstellt.
Hast du da eine Quelle dazu? Soweit ich weiß, verlangt Apple, dass alle Apps “notarized” sein müssen. Also das, was Google jetzt auch einführt.
Für Apps im offiziellen Store ist das explizit EU-Vorschrift. Warum sollte die EU was dagegen haben, wenn das freiwillig ausgedehnt wird (falls es freiwillig ist)?
Where does it say that Google is blocking all side loading?
It says they are blocking the installing of unsigned apps. This is the macOS Gatekeeper being the only option on Android. You can still download and install apps that aren’t in the Play Store. So the EU will still love this as 3rd party apps can still exist, but at the same time anything “illegal” can be reported to them immediately.
It’s effectively becoming the gate keeper in the same way apple only allowing app installs through its app store only is a gate keeper.
They are gatekeeping which apps you can install, not the installation method.
The EU waltz.
One step forward.
One step to the left.
Two steps to the right.
Three steps back.Repeat.
Inside the EU’s chest there are two wolves.
I need an OS for phone which is completely controlled by community.
Do any alternatives allow using banking apps or android pay or android auto?
I realize there are no substitutes for banking apps, but are there any alternatives for android auto or pay if those cannot be installed? Preferably Linux alternatives.
The substitutes for banking apps are banking websites. If your bank does not allow you to use your bank from a website, you should switch banks. I did.
Seriously, I see these custom Android Auto USB Sticks that people use to watch Netflix and I just want to know how they hooked into the APIs to do that
I am toying with the idea of creating a PDA of sort from a raspberry pie, touchscreen and a powerbank. Case can be 3d printed, it would be bulky af and equipped with Tails or some other secure OS.
https://lilygo.cc/products/t-deck
only problem is it’s just an esp32, but you can add GPS
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Why not just get a PinePhone?
Or FairPhone??
That’s good if you want a phone with an Android fork pre-configured and live in the EU. But the experience here in the US isn’t great.
Neither sell their phones in (or ship to) my country.
Because they are cool and build phones from scratch
Well, sort of…
Got it, you want a project more than a finished product. I can respect that. :)
How about letting the users decide what to sideload? What the hell?
I hope the EU is ready to also sue Google.
It will probably be for the rest of the world.
EU devices not effected.
The EU is currently deepthroating Trump so hard that it’s completely out of breath and all our clothes are ruined.
With how volatile Trump is this could change literally anyday, but with the current political equilibrium all google would have to do is gift trump a shiny golden thing so he makes a threatening remark about gas exports and the EU would go “uwu yes master right away master, do you want to fuck my gaping asshole while you’re at it?”.
The EU already forced sideloading to be officially supported on iPhones thanks to the Digital Markets Act, and that law applies to Google as well.
The US will likely apply pressure, just like they are trying to force their death machines to be legalized on European roads. Apple already tried to pressure the union and failed, but the political climate has changed a bit since then, and while EU bureaucrats can be fierce, European leadership tends to be weak as fuck.
But yeah, chances are that this change won’t apply to the EU. :)
It’s too bad they were too terrible at writing legislation to be successful.
What exactly do you mean?
Sure, nothing is perfect, but EU legislation has generally been quite good, from the GDPR to the DMA.
The challenges are more related to enforcement - rules on the book are worth nothing if we don’t force companies to live by them. In this respect we’ve seen some pretty sloppy behaviour, but also some victories. It’s not a one-sided story.
Another challenge is of course to keep passing good laws, and to avoid terrible ones. Chat control needs to be stopped. Stopping it is a matter of convincing national governments it’s a bad idea, as well as members of the European Parliament - everyone should be writing their representatives NOW. But that’s another issue entirely. :)
I mean Apple has continued their shitfuckery unabated.
Not unabated. They are stuck trying to find new loopholes to not comply, which are then struck down. It’s a cat and mouse game, and they think they can get away with it because they have the most expensive lawyers.
Again, enforcement is the challenge, not the laws themselves.
I’ve seen no such thing but maybe I’m just not paying close enough attention. They still have the same bullshit where third party stores still need to pay them 27%, and they still require Apple’s approval, which is almost nothing gained.
don’t iphones delete your sideloaded apps against your will and along with your data, if you don’t use the ibstaller tool at once every week?
if so that’s useless for anybody other than developers themselves who otherwise don’t even want to use their own app.
I have no idea as I don’t follow apple much, but I am aware that they are constantly trying to find ways to avoid complying with EU law, and that it is often rapidly struck down.
What you’re describing here is not a failure of the law, but Apple trying real hard to find creative ways not to comply with it. To me it only shows that they are desperate, and that EU law is in fact getting to them.
If they keep at it it’ll eventually end up in court, the case will take a couple of years, and they’ll be slammed with a fine and asked to get their shit together.
European leadership tends to be weak as fuck.
which is utterly disheartening.
Does the law demand unsigned software?
Google is clearly trying to find a loophole here. Their loophole clearly sucks.
In all likelihood it’ll end up in front of the Court of Justice of the European Union. And in all likelihood Google will lose again.
The Court of Justice generally seems unimpressed by American lobbyists, so the strategy of finding a dumb loophole is probably doomed to fail.
That didn’t answer my question. M
Does the law demand unsigned software?
The answer is no. It’s not phrased like that. But it’s all about ensuring free competition in digital markets. The sole purpose of Google’s move here is to hinder competition in their own digital market, and to keep control over it.
So the law does not have a paragraph stating that “unsigned software must be allowed”, but it has a bunch of other paragraphs that can be used to strike down on monopolistic behaviour.
Google are aware of the law, and will try to find a loophole by designing a system that they believe technically complies with it. Then someone will sue them, it will end up in the European court, and the European court will in all likelyhood tell Google to get fucked.
It seems american tech companies think they can get away with anything because that’s how it works in the US. We are repeatedly seeing that this is not how it works in Europe: the Court of Justice tends to care deeply about the intention of the law, as well as the perceived consequences of their rulings. And they don’t seem to care all that much about American capitalists.
But to answer your question very simply: No, it doesn’t. But thankfully that doesn’t matter at all.
I feel like there should independent signing authorities that the major platforms honor. But that’s its own can of worms. Who runs them, is it the government? A non-profit? How do we prevent corruption of that entity, etc.
And yeah, the tech companies have raced ahead of comprehension. At least the comprehension that reasonable and good lawmakers have. At the same time, it’s increasingly looking like the terrible people in power know just how far ahead tech is. (Thiel)
You can’t make laws for every single possible future reality. We need courts that uphold laws even when billionaires try to dodge them using shady techniques. The problem is that big tech often gets away with murder because they can afford expensive lawyers. Especially in the US laws are essentially meaningless for the rich. This is not so much the case in Europe.
I have heard some positive signals from the European Court of Justice that they are taking the challenge from big tech seriously and that they are going the extra miles to understand these issues. If you’re particularly interested, many judges talk about this in the Borderlines podcast series by Berkley law. But it gets really dry really fast haha.
I don’t believe in signing authorities. It’s not effective - Google can’t even keep malware off the play store - and it’s an authoritarian move. Hell, most apps in the play store spy on their users, profiling usage to sell to advertisers along with ID codes that makes it possible to combine data between apps and build detailed profiles of individuals. The problem is not apps that are not signed - the problem is the whole economy of apps that work as Google intend them to.
Also, it’s a basic question of rights. It’s my phone, I bought the hardware, I own it, I install whatever the fuck I want on it.
Why exactly do we need signing authorities? Software isn’t zero trust like websites. You do need to trust the developer - even a legitimate one. Signing apps with verified developer keys will only hurt small independent developers, open source projects and freedom enabling stuff like user patching.
It only works to solidify monopolies and doesn’t protect you against shit.
Remember that brief period in the US where, for a fleeting moment, Lina Khan went after a few companies for monopolistic practices?
Brother let me tell you about my friend Janet Reno, who fucked with Microsoft in 2001…
Yeah man, those were the days.
Google getting rid of all the things that made people want an android phone over an iPhone.
Yep, if this happens there is no benefit to android.
I mean, there is still UI/UX, app store policies, and general cost/options.
This definitely makes Android a lot less appealing. But it is also questionable to act like the biggest reason to use android was sideloading apps since the vast majority of users don’t even know that is an option (and probably shouldn’t since they have no understanding of how to vet them). Especially since Apple isn’t any better (?).
Ui/ux is honestly worse on android compared to something like ios. The playstore is honestly stuffed with ads and seems to be actively regressing in ux (the update apps menu is hidden behind like 3 layers of dialogues). Cost wise a used iPhone is probably a better deal than a cheap new android phone.
I used android primarily because I could install apps Apple basically doesn’t care about (and after the 5th time gba4ios broke).
Maybe it’s because I’m used to android, but iOS feels user hostile in ways that android never has been, especially when it comes to storage management and pushing iCloud subscriptions.
Well android phones dont have removable sd card slots anymore, the only way to transfer files is over the weird protocol that’s slower than directly writing to disk, if you use pixel or Samsung youre already inundated with annoying ads. The ecosystem is pretty awful now. Installing a custom rom is a good idea, but depending youre phone model it could be a step down and if your on any Samsung phone with knox it basically irreparably damages some attestation fuse. Apple ain’t much better. I might try a Linux phone next.
There is a lot wrong with android, but it’s super easy to transfer files over USB or just download them. I use Nextcloud personally. Then you can manipulate them with your choice of file manager.
I got a new phone recently, Samsung with Knox, the worst part about it so far compared to other Android has been how it is quick to kill background apps, and the UI is honestly disorienting compared to how I’m used to doing things. I haven’t been shown ads yet, but I did go ahead and disable all the Samsung apps I could find. This includes not being able to control how quickly it kills background apps, but it’s the lesser of two evils.
I’m not sure what Knox attestation is, but it sounds really unfortunate, and I want to search it now. I agree the phones of today are awful and the only reason I got this one was the price.
Comrade, the ignorance of the masses should not dilute our anger
So… “the ignorance of the masses” should be combatted by willful ignorance and nonsense that falls apart the moment anyone looks at it?
Get angry. I sure am. Look for alternatives. Graphene sure ain’t it but I hope it will be in the next four or five years. But this is something google are willing to futz with for a reason: The vast majority of users don’t care about it and even with the changes it isn’t significantly worse than the competition.
Yet everywhere I see “Well, I guess I have to buy Apple now” which is just… buy it if you want to but don’t pretend this shit is why.
It’s still a step up from iOS, which has had similar restrictions since they started.
Apple allows sideloading (somewhat), this is would be demonstrably worse (if enacted)
somewhat
Yes. Only in the EU and only since 2024 when Apple was forced to do it by new laws. It’s reasonable to assume Google would be subject to the same laws.
If you live outside if the EU, it’s “no sideload for you!” There are computer programs that can do sideloading to iPhones, but they have limitations, like having to refresh the sideloaded apps every seven days.
Wholly incorrect. You’re allowed to sideload up to 3 apps (or 10 appIDs, whichever comes first) without being a developer, and that arbitrary restriction is removed if you pay for a dev license, regardless of which part of the world you’re in.
In the EU you’re allowed to install third party app stores (still have to be notarized by Apple) which isn’t sideloading
The limitations depend on which program you’re using - there’s more than one - which is why I only gave a simple example. And if you have to pay for a function that is otherwise free to many others, that’s a limitation.
Side loading is installing an app from anywhere but the official store. So by definition “third party” is side loading. Whether it’s another store or authorised is irrelevant.
The limitations depend on which program you’re using - there’s more than one - which is why I only gave a simple example.
No it doesn’t. It’s in all the documentation, official and otherwise
Side loading is installing an app from anywhere but the official store. So by definition “third party” is side loading. Whether it’s another store or authorised is irrelevant.
You can’t just make up a definition, believe it, and then share it like it’s true. We’re going by the legal definition as that’s the only one that matters.
Apple only allows up to 3 apps or 10 appIDs to be sideloaded, wherever you are in the world. Period.
“This ad company restricting anything you can load is better than iOS” is decently a thing you can say hahahaha
Whatever things made people get into Android some 20 years ago are no longer relevant to the majority of people.
The biggest benefit will remain the apps. People love apps. In that regard, their only competition is Apple. It’s why no one can make a new phone OS.
The other reason is cost. If you want a cheap device, Apple has no such thing. There are hundreds of Android devices you can buy for a couple hundred dollars.
For those who buy Samsung flagships for more than an iPhone, well those people I can’t explain.
I can see apps becoming less important over time. PWAs were basically what Apple originally planed for the smartphone anyway and now they are capable of damn near anything you would want an app to do. No store to rely on. No updates to install. No storage space being eaten into. The browser engine functions as a layer of abstraction between the scary untrusted app and your own OS. It’s kinda perfect.
You might think so but PWAs have been around for a long time and seen very little adoption.
They haven’t been promoted or supported well until fairly recently. Also, Firefox is not compatible with PWAs but chrome, edge, and safari are.
They’ve been well-supported for many years.
Open Firefox and pin a PWA. I’ll wait.
Wait for what? I’ve done this many times.
Do you mean pin as in creating a shortcut to the webapp on the homescreen/launcher?
For those who buy Samsung flagships for more than an iPhone, well those people I can’t explain.
Well, it could be explained before: Flagship hardware without the restrictions of iOS.
Now… After this bullshit… yeah…
Yup my first thought was “Where is your God now?”
Google ditched “Don’t be evil” a long time ago.
Unfortunately, that is 0.1% of their global market that is affected. So, they don’t really have much to lose.
Linux phones are moving fast but it feels like Android is moving faster on the other direction 😥
(Yes I know Android is built over Linux, I mean more traditional and open distros like postmarketos)
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Wasn’t the viable Linux phone Android at first? (I am younger than the iPhone so maybe I don’t really know how it was)
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There was a viable Linux phone 15 years ago: Nokia N900. Microsoft took care of that when they bought Nokia. At least Windows phone was a resounding success…
I don’t like how tech is evolving…
Devolving*
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I don’t like how tech is evolving…
Yeah, I’m not sure I like how the axe in my hand is evolving. It seems to be going for the internet fiber.
It was always intended to be this way.
The beginning was pre-enshittification. We’re going from the good ole’ days to the future, and the future sure as shit aint for you unless you’re in the club… and you aint, none of us are.
We need to make our own club, with blackjack and hookers!
There’s already a firm divide between the foss/self sufficiency crowd and modern tech.
If this is bad enough, you’d see every foss faithful walking around with a laptop, mp3 player and camera like they’re in 2009.
Every day that passes I use my T480 more and more, it will die with me
I hardly believe foss faithful people would ever carry a laptop, but there is a chance they will choose a foss-respecting phone (not that there are many options)
I hardly believe foss faithful people would ever carry a laptop
The whole thinkpad obsession in the linux/foss community isn’t visible to you?
Sure glad I de-googled with GrapheneOS that ironically runs on Pixel phones.
this is doubtless going to hurt whatever third party app store it is that you use anyway. if the only places sideloaded apps are available on, the only options are that custom roms like graphene become more popular, or apps that refuse to be put on Google will dry up.
which do you feel is more likely?
I’ve been hemming and hawing. Switched to Linux pretty much full time for my PC, this will push me 100% into FOSS phone. Over half my apps I use would get blocked
Over half my apps I use would get blocked
Consider many apps are just webpages. You can go to the website directly from a browser and everything is happy.
Obviously won’t solve everything, but that covers most apps right there.
A lot of people cry about banking apps not working on phones that have been rooted/degoogled/whatever. But seriously, just use their website. The app is usually just a front end for the site anyway.
Mobile check deposit is about the only perk to the apps
That’s a good point.
Sure I can use my bank’s website (and it’s a shit experience) but they still want me to have their own app for authentication… Don’t even offer anything else at this point.
My credit union site doesn’t scale to mobile screens unfortunately. It is a massive pain in the ass to use the browser
Correction, looks like they finally updated it a few months ago to scale.
and if you don’t use the app, they’ll force you to pay for second factor code SMSs each and every time you log in.
Who’s still being charged per SMS in 2025? Is that still a thing somewhere?
parts of the EU
That’s yet another trend that’s made me less and less interested in things. You’re not wrong though and will likely be my fall back
Now that the Pixel 10 is out, the Pixel 9 prices are falling. If you’re going to load GrapheneOS, you need to make sure you get a phone that has an unlocked bootloader, which is different than being carrier unlocked. Any phone that was initially sold through a carrier like Verizon or ATT will have a locked bootloader, as the carriers don’t like people messing with the phone software to unlock features that they may charge for (e.g. hotspot).
That’s a good point for the future, but I meant on my Pixel 6a and I bought it directly through Google.
Well then, you’re already all set. Google edition phones all have unlocked bootloaders. I’m currently running a Pixel 6 Pro with GrapheneOS. It’s super easy to install and use, even if you’ve never messed with your phone before. I’ve been looking to potentially upgrade to a newer phone, because mine is a few generations old and Graphene doesn’t support phones forever, though they do for quite a while. An unlocked Pixel 9 Pro is around $550-650 right now, but I’ll probably wait another 6 months, as the prices will probably fall another $100-$200 in that time frame.
Be careful. I’ve read reports of at least two Pixel 6a devices bursting into flames.
My mom has a Pixel 7 we are replacing because it gets incredibly hot for no apparent reason.
Google has actually released a software update to try to prevent the modem battery issue and are replacing the battery in affected models for free. Rare easy win from a megacorp
I hope MS doesn’t start doing this to Windows or else that would kill WINE/Proton, and also severely harm Windows itself given how deeply sideloading exes or msi files is ingrained into that OS.
Didn’t the old arm version of windows have this limitation though? It only ran signed exes with a chain of trust?
I feel like this is probably where things might be heading overall “for our safety”. People saying it’s only the pixel. It’s only the pixel so far. And I think Samsung are locking up bootloaders too. I fully expect both to become the norm.
Oh you’ll be able to get a phone that isn’t locked this way. With 4 generations out of date hardware at twice the price of the current flagship because it’s a niche product they just can not make at scale to be affordable.
Also I’ve said it elsewhere, local/personal compute is something I fully expect to become a rare and expensive hobby too.
And custom-built PCs are already getting priced further and further out of the market for everyone who isn’t rich; mini PCs are slowly taking over the budget segments, and even some of the mid-range as well.
Next step if it’s allowed to get that far would be locking out alternate OSes after upgradeable PCs are all but eliminated except for HEDT.
Why would Linux have to respect the certificates? Run whatever random software you want!
I’d also say, it’s likely rooting your phone would work around this, though I don’t recommend that from a security perspective.
If you have the ability to, don’t use a smartphone. You’ll be better off and you don’t have to care about stuff like this anymore.
For real, when this thing rolls out, I’m going to stop updating and try to still use my foss apps for as long as they still work, once my phone eventually becomes useless I’m not going to spend 400 on an expensive phone just so I can run custom roms. I will have to just get used to not having a computer in my pocket all the time again.
so no modded apps, no emulation, no unauthorised chat apps. hopefully some root mod will make this irrelevant.
Democracy is dead. Welcome to the neo dark ages. Take up arms.
Well, I mean, we have yet to see an actual serious cyberattack right? Aren’t security needs going to increase, not decrease?
The ability to filter information using proprietary devices and software in the kernel of all of these garbage devices is the core issue. Trusting the owners of that code is to surrender your right to unbiased and unfiltered information. I am not at all concerned about hacking or security by small insignificant players. I am massively concerned about the extremely powerful using the leverage they have normalized and embedded to become tyrannical neo feudal lords in a fascist society. Google IS the biggest danger by orders upon orders of magnitude. Trusting them is to give up democracy entirely.
All mobile devices are proprietary. Android is a scheme to make a Linux kernel that has everything ready to deploy except the actual hardware drivers for the processor and modem. Manufacturers take this kernel and add their proprietary binaries at the last possible moment. That source code is not available anywhere. The hardware documentation is not available anywhere publicly. Every device model is just different enough that reverse engineering one does nothing transferable to any other. The level of reverse engineering is extreme and requires destroying many devices using things like fuming nitric acid and fluorine solutions just to have a small chance at reading some parts of embedded memory. These are some of the most dangerous and hazardous chemicals humans make, and you still need xray equipment, special microscopes with stepping automation to stitch images, and a ton of time.
This is moving to a tyrannical surveillance state of fascist authoritarianism. Open source software is a major front on the line of real democracy. This is a nuclear bomb released on that democracy. You fear the wrong pirates and criminals. The biggest threats always come from within. Trust as a mechanism is fundamentally antithetical to democracy. Everyone demanding trust is a traitor to democracy. Trust is the key of the fascist kingdom. Once that key is held, democracy has failed regardless of whomever is aware of the situation. Democracy requires fully informed citizens with skepticism and the liberal right to decide for themselves even when they are wrong. This is impossible without full access to information. The source of that information cannot be filtered at any level. We already have the narrowest bottleneck of available information sources in the last 1000 years of history. There are only 2 relevant web crawlers. All search queries filter through one or both of these two and the results from these are not deterministic. Two people searching for the same thing at the same time will get very different and very biased results. This is individualized regardless of any protections people imagine they have in place. Outside of the internet there is no real unbiased media. A dozen people own it all. Even the garbage claiming to comb all sources is drawing the line and dictating what is center right or left is. Anyone at the grassroots level is impossible to find because there are no organic unbiased search results. The results are all filtered junk full of agenda and bias.
This is the real big picture abstract issue in play. When the maga traitors said this was a coup, they absolutely ment that. Mobile devices are all rental garbage someone else controls. Your computer likewise has a secret operating system running in the background that you do not control. In Intel it is called the Intel Management Engines or ME. This started with Intel VPro in 2008. AMD adopted it is 2013. Arm has one too.
All that is left is to steal your right to have a digital front door by eliminating DNS filtering and all of these devices will be controlled and connected directly by someone else that is watching and listening at all times. You are already in tethers as a digital slave that can be bought and sold for exploitation and manipulation without your consent or knowledge using your digital presence. You have not effectively realized the implications of that surrendering of rights to citizenship with full autonomy. The next step is to redefine the word citizen to be functionally equivalent to slave. “You will own nothing, and you will be happy about it” because if you are not, you will be dead. This is the death of democracy. My words will echo in your head years from now. The dystopia to come is beyond anything you can presently imagine and there is no way to stop it now short of taking up arms and playing Luigi if you are able.
The consolidation of wealth is what really made Caesar. That was the death of the republic. It was not Caesar. We are all a product of our time and environment. It was the consolidation of great wealth. All that wealth did not give a shit about Rome, it went to Constantinople for better opportunities at first chance because consolidation of wealth is treasonous. It is as it was, just look at outsourcing and off shoring, or the disgusting mismanagement of banking and housing that have made the American worker completely uncompetitive with Asian counterparts at the same standard of living. No, I have no fear of the boogie man or foreign state actors. I am terrified of the criminal that normalizes domestic trust, actively manipulates and exploits me, and steals my purchased property. That is a real monster.
Increasingly, I think people like yourself should be working to develop systems that don’t just use all this shit. Or systems that use the old shit that doesn’t have all of this modern baggage you speak of.
I know it seems impossible. But it also seems like no one is trying.
honestly the hardware seems to be the harder part. for software we could just fork android and tear out the restrictive parts.
Did some research and here are your options:
- use custom mod (the new restriction only applies to certified devices). You can use microG (/e/, iode, Lineage) or sandboxing (GrapheneOS) to run apps requiring Google services. Google will still try to kill it but my bet is it will still work for at least a couple of years
- Ubuntu Touch - you can buy new devices with it, it can run android apps using waydroid but you will not be able to run any apps requiring google services. It can run native Linux apps. Native UT apps are build using QML. It has a completely new system API so it’s closer to Android then native Linux. It’s based on Halium which uses the kernel from Android
- PostmarketOS - native Linux running native Linux apps. Can use waydroid. Few supported devices but everything works on PinePhone Pro and few others phones.
- Droidian or similiar - Debian running on Halium. Kind of half way between PostmarketOS and Ubunut Touch. Native Linux but running on Android based kernel
Personally, I will stick with GrapheneOS for now (my Pixel still has at least 6 years of support). When I’m unable to run all the apps I need on it I will switch to two phones setup: stock Android for work/car apps, some Linux phone for everything else. When my Pixel dies I will switch to iPhone.
What’s a good custom ROM for a Samsung Fold 7? Just bought one and it’s my dream phone so so I don’t want to give it up so soon already, just so I can watch YouTube without ads. Planned on keeping it for at least the next 4-5 years…
You really should have thought about that before buying the device. You cannot install a custom ROM on my Samsung device anymore.
You always have to look at what devices custom ROMs support BEFORE buying them.
If you want to use custom ROMs you have to check support before buying a phone. Fold 7 is not supported by any custom ROMs from what I can see. Also, I’m pretty sure you can just use Fennec with Adblock on stock Android and not have ads.
What are u talking about. Were u living under a rock? - Google killed off most custom roms
Google has already started killing GrapheneOS by removing device trees from AOSP releases. Android 16 works fine, but for how long?
I would imagine the first thing any custom ROM would do is bypass Google’s app restrictions.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in 3 years I would need to pass hardware attestation to install a calculator app from the Play store.
I would imagine the first thing any custom ROM would do is bypass Google’s app restrictions.
Those restrictions don’t apply to custom ROMs. Yes, it’s clear Google is trying to kill custom ROMs but I think we still have couple of years. Linux phones are improving fast and I think in 5 years we will end up in the same spot we were with PCs 20 years ago: you will be able do most of daily driving on a Linux phones but some apps just won’t be possible to run (Authenticator apps, banking apps, Whats App, Android Auto…). Dual booting will not be possible so most probably I will end up with two phones: daily driver and work/car phone.
There are not going to be apps on Linux phones.
Definitely not banking apps.Tbh situation looks dire as fuck.
Use a bank with a good web interface…
Sorry most people won’t be choosing bank based on that
I guess bitcoin finally has a usecase /s
Some places are killing the web interface entirely and going app-only.
GrapheneOS still intends to support all the supported devices until EOL. The sideloading change doesn’t affect them. It won’t apply to GrapheneOS. It only applies to certified OSes and GrapheneOS is not certified because it doesn’t license Google Mobile Services. As per the rip out of the device trees for Pixels, that just makes Pixels like other phones. GrapheneOS has been able to expand it’s automation to build that device support themselves. For new devices, making the support will take longer than it did in the past though, but they will still support those Pixels, as long as they meet the hardware requirements and still allow third-party OS support with all security features intact. Besides that GrapheneOS is actively talking with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about tha
Its Nothing Phone right? It has to be, LG is dead, Sony has a niche, Samsung can get fucked, Moto is budget, HMD wants to be Nokia but I just dont see it, Asus?
I’m not going to participate in speculation and rumouring about this. I have an idea about who it might be myself but prefer to not talk about it. Negotations/talks are still ongoing.
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