Honestly I’m all for it. It gives you some understanding how food is produced, gives you some contact with nature, maybe some physical exercise, some respect for farm workers, and such.
while corporations get free labor win win for them!
And a little bit of glyphosate in the lungs.
yeah well that is an issue with workings conditions in general, i’d say. not specific to this proposal here.
Definitely better than military service
The only justification for a military draft is an existential threat. Having to import farm workers from south of the border isn’t one.
as long as the farms are publicly owned and there’s no profit interest.
even then, it’s basically slavery, or a framework for it. it’ll quickly slide into “undesirables” being made to work there. then conditions will go to hell because who cares about those people, I want my produce.
Bourgeois conservatives are obsessed with 20th century communism. The billionaire class has had its own vanguard since Prescott Bush. Steve Bannon calls himself a Leninist, though I’m not real sure what he means. The Republican obsession with culture war is influenced by Gramsci and his theory of hegemonic power. And the republican strategy of politically controlling cities through rural areas, as in “the country surrounds the city,” is a component of Maoism.
Not saying there is an affinity between far right conservatives and communists, I don’t believe that there is one. But 20th century communists’ application of dialectical materialism uncovered new political dynamics through their work with the masses, and unfortunately the far right learned many of these lessons, though only as a way to gain power for themselves noy liberation for all; while democrats clung death like to liberal idealism and refused to learn anything from the left whose job it is to oppose and keep from power.
Nah I wouldn’t call it communism. They want slavery. The “good ones” own the land. And the libs are the slaves. That is their ideal world.
Oh absolutely, 1000%. Its not communism, but they’ll use whatever affectation/artifice to get to slavery.
They’re obsessed with selling the idea of 20th century communism without that label while practicing 19th century robber-baron-ism. They can be kings and gods and then sell everyone else the tools to chase the next ideal. Because ultimately all they have is brand loyalty, fear, and a lack of any other options keeping farmers with them.
Back in 2016 Trey Crowder and 2 other comedian friends wrote a book called the Liberal Redneck Manifesto. As someone that grew up redneck, it was probably the best assessment of the situation in 2016 I’ve seen so far, and the media missed it 100%. The ultimate lesson is that until it affects the under-educated and they think they chose the alternative, they will continue to act against their own best interests because “That’s how it’s done.” Same exact thing applies to the developing world.
Then J.D. Vance and his stupid book came in and swept the scene with his mediocre drivel that made coastal liberal elites feel like now they understood how Trump won. Still pisses me off how joyously out of touch they were as they fueled the fire that got us here.
I’ll have to check out that Crowder book. Yeah they want to restore the gilded age.
But there will be no new deal. This time we don’t stop until every last one of them has been thrown down put of power, and faced the judgement of the people for their excessive crimes
Steve Bannon calls himself a Leninist, though I’m not real sure what he means.
I mean fascist have “socialism” if you consider their party members alone to represent the state. That’s why fascist economics can be difficult to grasp for a lot of people, especially capitalists.
Yes the Nazi seized the means of production… But, the way they did it was by seizing businesses not controlled by the party and then incentivizing loyalty by re-privatizing the businesses back to loyal party members.
People like Bannon cannot see the difference between the people seizing the means of production to serve greater society, and the party seizing the means of production to serve the party itself. To them socialism is when government take business, and that’s it.
And the republican strategy of politically controlling cities through rural areas, as in “the country surrounds the city,” is a component of Maoism.
I don’t really think that’s entirely correct considering that the 3/5th compromise was basically set up to do the same thing in America, and the idea of a Senate itself was invented as a way to avoid the same situation early American leaders witnessed in the French revolution.
I think maoism is a bit of a twist on the tradition, as class consciousness in China was fermented in the rural plurality unlike in Western nations which tend to take a more vanguard approach to socialism.
The actual material conditions that underpinned the revolutions in China, Russia, and other socialist experiments couldn’t be more different than our situation. China was a country that had a brutally and bloodily repressed peasant revolution before Mao rose to power and, in many ways, allowed that peasant revolution in China. Though I’m not an expert in Chinese history, def have some books here I gotta crack open.
The Russian revolution too, had an extremely weak bourgeois class, a despotic royal family, and like 70 years of hardcore Marxists building the workers movement. Lenin was still exiled when the workers soviets seized power in February, with the Bolshevik revolution taking place in October. We haven’t had our Bloody Sunday, yet, that scares the peaceful worker movement so much that they have no choice but to face facts, organize for power, and overthrow the monarchy.
No, the ruling classes can afford to be like detached from reality like this, they can call themselves Leninists and maybe even read and somewhat understand some of his work (or surround themselves with ppl that do.) But they’ll never understand these movements
The actual material conditions that underpinned the revolutions in China, Russia, and other socialist experiments couldn’t be more different than our situation. China was a country that had a brutally and bloodily repressed peasant revolution before Mao rose to power and, in many ways, allowed that peasant revolution in China. Though I’m not an expert in Chinese history, def have some books here I gotta crack open.
Eh, it’s a bit more complicated than that. Really the material conditions in China were a result of the dissolution of the Qing dynasty under the control of the Manchu people. You can really trace it’s origins back from the Taiping Rebellion, the subsequent Boxer rebellion, the occupation of the western powers, and finally the invasion and occupation of the Japanese. Its material reality was more a result of ethnic conflict between the generally perceived as outsider Manchu, and the repressed Han, who saw themselves as the historic rulers of China. Coupled with the perception by the Han that the Manchu were collaborating with occupying forces.
Mao and the initial leadership of the revolution weren’t exactly what you would think of as peasants, rather they were born to the peasant class. He was actually the son of one of the wealthiest farming families in his region, he was just Han in a time where really only Manchu were elevated into the ruling class.
I didn’t say Mao was a peasant, I said that he facilitated a peasant revolution. But I appreciate the history lesson
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply you did. I was just trying to explain a common misconception between the western and eastern understanding of what the peasant class was. In the Qing dynasty a peasant was far from the lowest rung of society, and relatively had a lot of potential for upward mobility.
By eastern standards mao was in the peasant class, but you could still be a relatively wealthy land owner and be part of the peasant class.
In the Qing dynasty there were 5 distinct classes and the order of them is pretty different from Western traditions.
The first class is occupied by the emperor and his immediate family.
The second class was for high government bureaucrats.
The third were agriculturalists, landlords, farmers and peasants.
The fourth was reserved for artisans and merchants.
Lastly the final class and lowest in society was for criminals, slaves, prostitutes, entertainers, low government employees, and the military.
If only it came with a few more aspects of maoism. Like the obliteration of landlords
Those guys could finally get jobs!
Judging by how hard the GOP is fighting to protect the Epstein files, they have some other things in common with Mao.
do you have sources about the mao side of this?
You mean a wanton disregard for the will of the people right?..…Right Annikin?
they have some other things in common with Mao.
Evidence?
BRB, gonna go kill a few sparrows
Before you go melt your pans.
Need the pans to catch the sparrows bruh
Sparrows first, then pans
100% guarantee that those who are proposing this will have some sort of exemptions for themselves and their oligarch friends.
i’m proposing this and i’ve already done farm labor twice so far (two seasons). i would recommend it to everyone who’s moderately physically healthy, i’d say.
Age exemption was right there in the second sentence (18-30).
Guarantee these bastards are all older than that.
This is definitely proposed by someone who runs a farm and wants free labor.
Id cost them so fucking much in repairs. I don’t need the produce to eat, the local varmints will suffice.
Yeah. I’ve read some handbooks and have some ideas. They would not like this idea for long when they start losing thousands a day in repairs.
Oh I would just fuck with the irrigation. If we are talking what I’ve read in books, well all I’ve got to say is “Gooooooood morning Vietnam!” cause that’s about the experience everyone would get.
Like being over 30? Or more than that?
$
Who’s the “our” in “our farms” referring to? 👀
…right , so only the family farms? Not any farm owned by a corporation, right?
I was thinking more like “farms collectively owned by the populace”…
A very good point.
You know…good people. (Pay no attention to the fact that the definition of good people changes wildly every day based on the moods and whims of Dear Leader.)
As somebody that worked in a cornfield for minimum wage, it sucks. Your feet get heavy with mud, it’s hot, the leaves give you “papercuts”. One summer is enough to make you never want to do it again.
And they and their rich friends will find a way to pay their way out of it
They’ll each own one of the farms, and claim that means they work there every day already.
Nationalized industry that always produces food at cost and pays all of its workers well and fairly would be a great idea so long as the people setting it up aren’t completely untrustworthy fucks.
Oh wait
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvée
That concept is old as fuck.
Cue Fortunate Son
Nope. It’s slavery. They want to do a slavery.
Hint: Marxist-Leninists really like slavery, so that’s not a distinguishing factor.
I think the big difference would be that under this you’d probably be working for next to nothing to enrich Monsanto or something, whereas under a Socialist system these would be public lands owned by the people, do be distributed to the people.
Having the military do farm work/construction is also pretty common in those kind of countries too.
And not even smart. Farming today is sonething you have to train at and want / need to do. Grab 100 people that have never farmed before and set them loose in a field to find out how quickly crops burn.
LOL, MAGA Communists.
not the worst idea really; community or civil service would be better. especially outside the town you’re from.
my high school made everyone do 40 hours community service and the connections and friends I made then still stand today and I live thousands of miles away now
Forced labor is never a good idea. Best solution for the kids would be to coordinate with others and burn all the fields in conjunction. Would bring the country to its knees begging other countries for assistance with food. The government would likely collapse and give up on the forced labor as soon as possible.
“The slaves acted like terrorists.”
It’s not like they had a choice what country they were born in.
yea not forced labor on farms - i’d propose local community service, help the town out, administer local elections, vfw, or local hospital or something more civic based.
I liked more when it was volunteer community service to gain access to a higher level of scholarship option. 75% scholarships didn’t require volunteer work, 100% scholarships did. No one is forced to do anything, but you can choose to do so and it benefits your options.
the his was actually the reason but the high school also mandated it. to be honest a lot of kids ended up just working with their parents and getting away with that sadly. 100% agreed with you
Ah, they didn’t allow the working with a family member in Florida. Had to do a non-profit or government program. Although I know 2 people who got around that by volunteering to do the clock/statkeeping for the kids basketball games. They’d show up on Saturday every weekend so the parents and such didn’t have to do it. And being that they both played basketball, it fit their interests and they noted all the individual stats instead of just the total score. The leagues are non-profit so it was an easier one.
that’s how it should be. lolol stop clock is a lottery win for those 2
tieing it to scholarship is difficult because you’re gonna end up with a bunch of nerdy guys who have the palest skin you’ve ever seen standing in the middle of texan sun … not ideal.
Working on a farm isn’t community service unless it’s a non profit or owned by the government. And that’s been a requirement for some state based scholarships for at least 20 years because they had it back when I went and still have it now.
I see where you’re coming from but I disagree.
I think society would always benefit from requiring some sort of community service. Its a great way of getting people involved I’m the real grit of their community. Build fond memories with friends and learn life lessons while making a difference.
Now, granted, I’m not going to go quietly into the fields to fix a mess made by a fascist government who decided making a show of shipping off undesirables is more important than eating.
Nor am I going to do such labor for free/cheap against my will and then be told
“Oh I’m so sorry. Jolly Green Giant and Kroger have had a bad year so that broccoli you picked has to double in price”
So what I’m saying is, I would be completely on board with a mandatory community harvest effort, but that’s assuming its for a government that hasn’t disgusted me or broken my trust. Which, as an American, I don’t have that.
I wonder how many rich kids will develop bone spurs?
Ok, they can work retail.
Not while you forbid cashiers to work sitting down for no reason at all.
Come to Walgreens where you are forced to keep busy 9 hours straight on your feet. Cashier can’t just wait on customers. Nope they must constantly look busy stocking etc. It’s hell!
When you only have one person operating the entire store, it’s so much better for everyone (who owns the store)!
Seriously. I went in for some passport photos and there was literally one guy working there. We had to wait for him to finish sticking and working at the cash register before we got helped.
I didn’t say Dollar General. I said Walgreens. We close the store if only 1 employee is available for work.
Not sure where you got dollar general, but I’m talking about Walgreens too.
And I don’t think this was only one guy available, this looked to be “mid day we only need 1 guy” sort of deal.
We never have one dude. Always two ALWAYS. You probably didn’t see the shift lead working the back. But associates must have a lead on hand. Also Walgreens policy is to close the store if not at least two employees on hand period.
Bone spurs don’t stop you from standing for 8 hours.
To be honest, I’ve never actually looked up what bone spurs are. I’ve only ever heard it in the BS-rich context that is Trump, so I didn’t bother looking up facts ¯\(ツ)/¯
Thank you for educating me.
