Online pornography showing strangulation or suffocation is to be made illegal, as part of government plans to tackle violence against women and girls.
It follows a review which found depictions of choking were “rife” on mainstream porn sites and had helped normalise the act among young people.
Both the possession and publication of such material will be a criminal offence, under amendments to the Crime and Policing Bill currently going through Parliament.
I’ve seen this story everywhere but can’t ever find the actual law.
“We’ve found a lot of videos online, and we’re going to keep watching until you stop making them!”
Train ai!
Okay but as long as it doesn’t look me in the eyes when I’m finished.
Jfc more conservative pearl clutching censorship laws in supposedly developed countries? What a time to be alive.
I’m a fairly progressive liberal, and I don’t think this is an entirely bad idea as it can be a dangerous practice. It’s so prevalent in porn (especially the free stuff those new to sex are likely to start with) that it makes it seem an almost routine part of sexual activity. The more aggressive young people sometimes will then pressure their partners to try it without really understanding the limits, potentially leading to deadly results.
I honestly don’t know if this happens much - if at all - so I admit I may indeed be “pearl clutching,” and am open to being proven wrong. As things stand, however, I don’t see how allowing the act to be so frequently portrayed can be seen as a net positive.
where the fuck do you source your porn from so that choking is so prevalent ?! When looking for this sort of content it’s super hard to find some…
Answered in a later comment. I’ve NEVER searched for it, but I rarely see it mentioned as a searchable item (or I’d have used that to avoid them) - it’s just automatically there. Where i can’t tell you for sure since it’s been so long since I watched due to always hitting upon that crap. Maybe redtube, xhamster, etc.
I’ve never seen any myself, though I also don’t go looking for it. Must have been some sort of algorithmic quirk.
At the same time, it seems to be overstepping a bit to be classifying it as equal in severity as CSAM and terroristic content. People presumably aren’t being choked to death in the video.
I didn’t read the details, and just went off the general concept, TBH. If that’s how they’re treating it, then there’s definitely some manipulative bullshit going on that I don’t agree with. That’s not at all what I was thinking about.
Then don’t look it up. My partner likes to be seriously choked during sex…what you gonna arrest me for making my partner cum?
You would seriously give your partner permanent brain damage?
That is a seriously problematic study with few controls and a small sample size.
Pilots regularly train in for hypoxia in hyperbaric chambers, losing consciousness repeatedly to train.
Consent and education are important, but safely engaging in breath play is very unlikely to give your partner brain damage.
Yes but no. You’re not supposed to lose consciousness during those trainings. Generally if you do, it’s a failure and you have to do it again. The point is to be able to recognize hypoxia and respond before you lose consciousness.
This is patently false. It cause brain death period. Perhaps you can argue it is not that big of a deal because of the brains ability to rewire itself once you have destroyed a portion of it
People do all kinds a bad activities for the brain so this is really nothing new.
One person’s breath play (so gross to minimize it this way) is another person’s sexual violence.
Edit: I would also like to point out frequency. The frequency of preferred sexual activity dwarfs the training you are talking about. Seems like a convenient and not thought out excuse.
One person’s breath play (so gross to minimize it this way) is another person’s sexual violence.
Well, yeah, all forms of sex without consent are rape. This isn’t really saying anything.
I think you don’t get that the majority of women getting choked never gave consent. The extreme minority of people who do this consensually are just that.
What is happening is a lot of men choking women because they can and women putting up with it.
This is also similar to everyone knows a women who has been raped but no one knows a rapist.
I’ve NEVER “looked it up,” but it seems to be an almost mandatory part of most videos produced anymore - along with the usual several positions that must be assumed, and ending virtually every video in a facial. They all look the same.
Well okay, did the last time I bothered looking for porn videos regularly. It’s been quite a while since I just couldn’t seem to avoid shit like that. Text stories are my porn anymore.
I don’t GAF what you & your partner prefer to do in your private time. Conflating that with porn is both disingenuous, and possibly telling of how highly you think of yourself.
I’ve always wondered about people who use the word “anymore” like you do. Can I ask where you’re from?
No, sorry. I already reveal more about myself than I should through my various comments.
Yeah I’ve noticed that too. I’d never seen someone use “anymore” for something they do currently until the last year or so.
I found this, which you might also find interesting!
https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/positive-anymore
I hate it tbhYou’re right, I hate it, but I am indeed from New England so that makes sense. I also hate the “it needs fixed” construction, it should be “it needs to be fixed”.
I mentioned what my partner and I do because at what point do these ridiculous laws stop? Right now, it’s just porn, but then it’s what you do in the privacy of your bedroom.
Choking has not been a big thing in porn. There’s a shit ton of porn so of course there’s a lot of choking porn, doesn’t mean it’s the main thing.
And positions now? What are you a nun? Does doggy bother you? Does Cowgirl? And highly of myself? Nah, I’ve been having a healthy sex life for 15 yrs…I’m just confident in my abilities.
You’re the one coming off highly of themselves. Like we should care that you get bothered by sex between 2 or more consenting adults.
Like, where do folks like you get this entitlement? That you can tell the rest of us what to do? Leave us alone. Leave others alone. Maybe worry about the pastors and government officials raping kids?
High horse riding.
Whatever you say. I’m done with this childishness. There are valid concerns on all sides, but the attitudes since my initial rather fair comment have been utter shit, and so I’m done here.
what you gonna arrest me for making my partner cum?
It might be the endgame at this point, who knows. We’re currently at “actors doing plays and people watching plays might become illegal”.
One of the parasite class’ main objectives has always been to make female orgasm illegal (and male orgasm, for anyone in the wrong social class).
Well, where are all those deaths caused by choking during sex because of porn? I would bet that many more visits to er are caused by trying to emulate the sex in the bath tube while having a couple wine glasses around scenes so typical in ‘romantic’ movies/shows, than by all the kinks seen in porn together.
Parents should, and I’m aware many do, tell their children that tv, movies, porn… are meant to entertain, not teach, and they are very different from how real life things work.
Exactly what I wondered when this was brought up 6 months ago!
https://vger.to/lemmy.world/comment/16311493
This article is feeling kind of clickbaitish, as the sources are … odd.
However, restricting blood flow to the brain can also have serious health implications.
While not all pressure on the neck will be fatal, research shows even relatively low pressure can cause death by strangulation.
The first source is a medical journal describing the physiology of the arteries in the neck, and does not seem to include anything about restricting blood flow (never mind temporarily) having serious health consequences.
The second source is a book from 1991 about autoerotic asphyxiation with the quote:
autoerotic asphyxia denotes death resulting from failure of a release mechanism of the device, apparatus or prop designed to attain cerebral hypoxia for heightened arousal.
Which is … not the same as doing this with someone, and doesn’t address the risks of a partner who releases pressure immediately after a loss of consciousness.
The issues around consent are troubling indeed, consent should always be paramount.
I also found it amusing that the beginning of the article said
Although rare, strangulation is the leading cause of death in consensual BDSM play.
Which links to a study that found a total of 16 cases that included strangulation between 1982 and 2020. Rare indeed.
My husband and I dabble in breath play, so I was curious and read a few studies myself. It seems that every case study I could find included atypical circumstances. Things like accidental hanging, or asphyxiation due to bags etc being over the head.
This paper includes a 50 year review of cases for anyone interested. https://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TOFORSJ/TOFORSJ-1-1.pdf
It is also worth noting that loss of consciousness due to cutting off blood flow to the brain (cerebral hypoxia) is not dissimilar to the hypoxia experienced by pilots, who even train with repeated exposure to hypoxia in hyperbaric chambers.
I would be curious to know if there were any studies of the long term effects of this on pilots. (My dive into the rabbit hole is done for the day, lol.)
You can read about the deaths in the Wikipedia article on the topic. Just because there are other mishaps during sex that also lead to injuries and/or death, that doesn’t invalidate concerns over this method as it even more directly can be shown to be problematic than accidents occurring due to other causes. Never mind the other possible life-altering outcomes such as brain damage.
We all know that the success rate of parents telling their teens anything can be wildly unpredictable. Often, it can even be a motivator to try to do the exact opposite of what their parents recommend. As such, that’s not really a reliable method of addressing the issue.
That article only cites deaths due to autoerotic asphyxiation, which I haven’t seen or heard portrayed in porn, and says that are mostly men, which contradicts the stated objective of preventing harm to women. Have you even read the source you linked or the article, mate?
No, it mentions both, “mate.” Just because you like that act doesn’t mean the concerns are warrantless/unjustified, and if you were truly objectively thinking about it then you wouldn’t be denying that fact.
I’m done arguing this. We’ve both said our pieces. Just because I’m not an expert ready and armed with documented facts doesn’t mean I don’t have a valid point. You don’t like it, TFB - go argue it with the lawmakers because I’m done with this childishness.
Don’t worry, it’s not the Conservatives, it’s the Labour Government implementing this!
Good thing Labour will never be anything like the Tories amirite fellow chokers?
Always great to see that politics are broadly similar everywhere. It’s always irritating to see Democrats cross the aisle when it comes to shitty pearl clutching laws like this. It’s somewhat comforting to know that your fake left wing party is also shitty in similar ways to our fake left wing party.
Americans are pussies… Does that mean we can ban them now?
Fr though it’s the same essential problem for every subtopic… Drugs, sex ,business… Everything… They have this idea good and bad can be boiled down into simplified acts regardless of intention and emotion… It such childish thoughtless ideology. And it’s not just Republicans Democrats do they same thing when they jump on the sjw bandwagon.
America is fucked.
Ironic, the person condemning America automatically assumes every article is about America… how American of you.
The point still stands, lol. Thanks for the clarification though.
I think this is talking about the UK, not the US.
While I don’t disagree with you, I believe this is in the UK.
It’s pretty much the same in any 1st world country. There’s not a lot of people running the globe.
People think that’s outlandish but look at Epstein’s reach and he was basically a common bitch in the game.
It’s a good start…
“To what,” he asked knowingly after seeing the exact types of crappy comments one would expect from a proudly self-proclaimed “Christian conservative” in their history.
To banning all pornography…MRI imaging has revealed that porn addiction leads to changes in the brain, citing a direct correlation between more time spent consuming porn and a reduction in grey matter. [3] Critics of these findings have raised concerns about whether pre-existing conditions that contribute to grey matter volume loss have been properly accounted for. While it is true that scientific research needs to account for the whole picture, there is ample evidence that porn addiction in particular, negatively impacts the brain…just the tip of the iceberg…
What an ass. It’s sad how you get your jollies being a sanctimonious troll (read my profile before you comment about my username) - all the while knowing how it’ll be received, but just can’t resist doing this because you’re positively addicted to the extremely brief dopamine hit from telling yourself that you’re so morally superior to all those dumping on your shitty takes. You’re so transparent when you refuse to even try backing up your statements (not that you likely actually could with any real validity).
Good luck to you, as I’m done feeding your pathetic addiction. Consider yourself blocked.
If you’re going to just copy paste some out of context slop you could at least just provide a link (he says, knowing that probably came right out of a “write me a paragraph proving that porn is bad” ChatGPT session).
Or are you going to say that “[3]” citation notation in there was totally intentional?
Maybe we should ban anything with a correlative (but not necessarily causative) link to decreased “grey matter” though; let’s start with social media. You’d clearly never use that, right?
Clearly…it’s easier to copy paste then to write it all out…but that is just the tip of the iceberg on the poision of porn on society…but the good thing for you is degens gonna be degens I guess…but I will pray for you…oh and just because it’s copy paste don’t make it untrue…am I Write or am I RIGHT natalia…
Ew.
You might want to ask ChatGPT to define “cherry picking” for you.
Also “how to ethically cite sources in public discourse”.
Yea I liked that song they had Zoot Suite Riot…Cherry Poppin Daddies…throw back a bottle of beer…fool
fool
Irony.
Whatever porn you watch should be banned?
They don’t watch porn. They watch “disgusting filth,” and lots of it - you know… “for research purposes.”
Search: How to do the Heimlich maneuver? YouTube: sorry this video has been deleted for depicting scenes of people choking.
You forgot the 5 unskippable ads before they finally show you the video was deleted.
Penetration itself can be viewed as an act of violence and the government should probably put everyone who has thought about it on a surveillance list.
Surveil everyone in the country? already done ✅
Fistbumps should be prohibited in media too. Literally punching each other!!!
Oh you mean a terrorist fist jab?
What’s next? BDSM?
Only porn allowed will be missionary position?
I think Australia tried or did ban flat chested woman in porn. Could see that happen more.
The only thing I could find online regarding this was this stackexchange with the accepted answer claiming that there is no legislation, only a ruling from the Australian Classification Board against some media that they said “depicted [young persons] on the bordeline of 18 years old.” I.e. it was a discretionary ruling by a statutory regulator that thought someone looked a bit too much like a child.
There are some more links on that stackexchange but some are dead and I only skimmed a couple of them so I encourage people to read through themsleves since I was too lazy to sort the situation out for myself; I only found enough to satisfy my curiosity and thought I should leave this comment to add context to a bizarre claim (not blaiming prev commenter, my memory is horrible too and I also found some news articles that were definitely depicting the situation the way they remembered)
I saw an articles with 2015 date regarding it. I found this from another site as of 2020
In the process of banning the production, distribution and possession of child Adultography, the government also made it illegal for adults to portray children in these productions. Take special note that we said adults, not women with small breasts.
Small breasts Adult in Australia has not been banned, however, the actress must not be made to appear to be a child under the age of 18 years.
So only flat chested grannies allowed.
Yeah thats what one source implied that maybe someone 18 might be an issue but woman in 30s wont be.
Reasonable.
Good thing women with flat chest (or non women for that matter) doesn’t exist, right?
This is the first thing that sprang to my mind.
UK government is shifting closer and closer to the Australian model. Bummer.
Only porn allowed will be missionary position?
No. I think it’s a step by step approach, that will go further than that. After only missionary, they’ll make the actors get married before having any sex, all under the blankets and as clothed as possible, no condom or pulling out allowed either, and at the end of the scene it has to show the beautiful baby born nine months after. No gay porn, of course, or trans, interracial, more than to people (man™️ and woman™️)… sex is for procreation! How you dare enjoying it, you sinner!
That fetish already exists.
Only if it’s for procreation, too.
Welcome to Britain
I can’t help but feeling as though the exact same pearl clutching wieners are behind this as the growing attempts at overall porn ban, as though restriction of access to the content will somehow cut the legs out from under the already widespread (albeit uncommon) practice.
To wit, people aren’t choking each other during sex or risking David Carradine’ing themselves while wanking because of some shit-production porn, they’re doing it because it’s enjoyable to them (choker and choke-ee). I’m not going to kinkshame except to say that there’s no method of getting a head-rush that I’d personally recommend, but based on what sex-choke enjoyers that I know have said, it makes them cum extra-hard. So… there’s that, the mega-cums.
Choking causes permanent brain damage. MRI scans prove the brain has to rewire itself due to massive cell death. Also, the majority of it is man choking women so it has serious implications of fucked up power dynamics. To top it off the vast majority of choking is non-consensual.
Even if it is consensual the long term effects are likely dementia along with other serious and progressive neurological conditions.
Are you going to volunteer taking care of hundreds of thousands of choking related dementia patients. Whose is going to pay for this considering this level of care can run hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
Pilots train for hypoxia in hyperbaric chambers, repeatedly losing consciousness to train.
I question the claim that the brain needs to rewire itself because of massive cell death.
Football players take regular hits to the head repeatedly as well.
This isn’t really a claim in the way you are stating it.
Are you surprised the brain is so good at rewiring itself due to cell death? Perhaps it is so good it that it doesn’t really matter?
Unfortunately we have a lot of TBI people that seem to suggest otherwise.
You know that’s an entirely different physical process, right? CTE happens because the brain is being smashed into the inside of the brain case.
Uh yeah, but brain cell death is brain cell death whether it is caused by a concussion or lack of oxygen.
Porn is acting. Play. Or maybe you think everyone that gets shot in a movie is actually killed during recording?
There’s no point arguing that “choking is bad”. I’m pretty sure any sane person would agree.
Porn may be considered fantasy, but it is very real to the people involved. I would not minimize this myself.
People have definitely died from choking even when it is consensual. Although most deaths are from auto-asphyxiation.
When I lived in Idaho one of my girl’s classmates died from choking himself with a belt while masturbating. It was primarily a Mormon community.
After that they had “experts” come in and tell the children that porn makes people serial killers. It was pretty ridiculous.
My primary concerns in all this is safety. It is not safe to choke your partner even if it is agreed upon. It causes permanent damage, although how much damage I suppose is debatable.
I know the brain fog from getting choked out is real and can affect someone for weeks afterwards. The fact that so many young people engage in this behavior is worrisome.
Even when perfectly healthy consenting partners engage in this it is dangerous and that is rarely the situation.
What is much more common is men choking out women because they have seen it in porn. Does this make all porn bad? I don’t think so personally.
It is not safe to choke your partner even if it is agreed upon
I agree on that point. My point is that this is what should be discussed, and not banning acting.
Oh okay, I get that. I would agree with you, but the problem here is the coercive nature of paid acting. We have to have safeguards in place to protect actors.
Choking, as I mentioned, causes permanent brain cell death every single time it is done. Not to mention issues like PTSD as well. In this scenario the government has the overwhelming burden to protect actors from being paid to harm themselves.
I think there is another argument about protecting the welfare of the public as well. This is where you could argue it becomes about a questionable moral decision. I tend to agree with people who have concerns about the state exceeding it’s authority and the possible slippery slop of censorship.
This is why it is important to weigh these things carefully. You may disagree, but I fall back to the the concept of specific and narrowly defined speech that poses the direct risk of harm. I think filming actual or even simulated choking can meet this definition.
The burden of proof must be on the government and it must prove its case empirically . With the large amount of non-consensual choking, along with the reality that a lot of men abuse women it can be seen as an extremely negative societal trend. Statistics point to the reality that only a small fraction of these instances could be considered truly consensual.
Monkey see and monkey do is a very real phenomenon. Our brains literally work by mirroring actions. I know this harkens back to a lot of truly negative censorship though. We can see all kinds of censorship that could be justified with this logic.
I suppose depicting sexual violence in normal sexual encounters is where I draw the line. When it is no longer fantasy and people see what they think is normal behavior without any pushback.
This is why so many young men that watch pornography with male dominated choking go on to repeat these actions as if they are normal, safe, or acceptable.
You talk like actors are actually choked. I’m pretty sure there are already regulations against that.
You talk about protecting actors; sure. That’s not what’s discussed though.
You think people that are actually willing to choke someone, sometimes even against their will, need a porn flick to think about it? Or that they would not do it without someone having filmed it somewhere? Some people are lower than beasts, and they’ll do what they want. Trying to chase after every possible outside justification will not change them, and will not protect anyone. If a couple is getting it on and the man won’t listen to a “no, don’t do that”, there’s no amount of censorship, regulation, and ban, that will make them abide. The only thing it will do is increase censorship, regulation, and bans.
The sane approach for that is, surprise surprise, education, and maybe properly labeling stuff. It’s not putting in place another framework to ban things on a whim, which will subsequently be abused for much more than the arguably “fair” initial point.
This discussion is repeated ad nauseam everytime there’s plan for banning something. The argument that choking is bad is true, there’s no point repeating it. The argument that “monkey do what monkey see”? Sure, go for that. Let’s ban every media then, because boy oh boy I have a bad news about the movie industry of the past 50 years.
Actors do actually get choked so that takes care of the first part of your premise. Here is a story of it happening. There is no safe way to restrict breathing period.
https://laist.com/news/holly-deen-accusations
To the last part. It should be illegal to actually harm people on camera which is what is happening. If you think this is a over reaction you are wrong. We should not be allowing this to happen.
There is direct correlation between people watching people get choked out in porn and doing it in real life. This is not violent video games.
Please save your moral panic nonsense for cases were it is applicable. It is not here. This is simply a public health issue and the UK is doing the right thing.
My primary concern in all this is safety. It is not safe to choke your parter even if it is agreed upon. It causes permanent damage although how much damage I suppose is debatable.
tbh I don’t care if people engage in dangerous actions as long as it’s done with informed consent.
There are major issues with people being pressured into putting up with stuff they wouldn’t otberwise but that’s a far bigger issue you don’t solve by banning media.
Hey, if you are cool with damaging your own brain sure, I draw the line when you choose to do it to someone else.
If it was SO consensual why are guys not getting choked equally? The answer is it isn’t. It is about dominance and power not a consensual act.
Furthermore, the majority of choking acts are not consensual and they also cause brain damage.
I really fail to see where you are coming from.
Edit: I reread your statement. You think banning choking depictions in porn is wrong. I see it as perpetuating abuse.
Okay this comment makes me think you don’t understand consent.
If it was SO consensual why are guys not getting choked equally?
My partner has fetishes I’m not into, but I engage in them because I want to give him the pleasure he gets from them. Is that not consentual because I’m not into the fetish?
Consent doesn’t mean only doing things you’re into, it means you’re agreeing to it free from any pressure or influence on your decision and you know everything you need to know to make your decision.
I won’t be choked and I wouldn’t choke someone because it is dangerous and I’m uncomfortable with it regardless of if the other person wants it. But as long as people consent and know the risks I don’t care what others do.
The answer is it isn’t. It is about dominance and power not a consensual act.
Dominance and power can absolutely be consentually engaged in. The bdsm community takes consent incredibly seriously.
There are larger cultural elements behind what people are into that are worth examining. Cultural influence doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t consentual though.
You seem to think because “consent” it is okay. That is your failing and that is okay. You are very wrong about this particular topic and we will have to disagree here.
This isn’t about a kink, this is about misogyny, brain damage, and perpetuating abuse. I swear kink culture is a cancer if it produces the kind of callousness and willful ignorance you display.
To top it off the vast majority of choking is non-consensual.
Do you have a source for that? I don’t believe you.
There is a huge societal factor here with the popularity and depictions of strangulation. “I am vanilla baby, I will choke you, but I ain’t no killer”.
Coercion and wanting to please your partner is often confused with consent especially when it is a dangerous activity like strangulation.
Depriving the mind of oxygen can produce euphoric feelings in people. This is extremely concerning considering that this also causes brain cell death. Reinforcing orgasm with such a destructive practice is very problematic.
Boo, “pro censorship” arguments presented as concern for others.
Sexual violence portrayed as a kink. There are many sides to every discussion.
But what if I like being choked? UwU
Is this an admission that we as a species can no longer tell the difference between fantasy and reality?
What’s next, banning wrestling and boxing matches? No more war films?
I mean online porn is a problem, especially for youths. When many of us were young it didn’t exist but it hit us as young adults. With 25 you might be a bit more sure about your sexuality or maybe you even have experiences. However, you are definitely more certain on who you are as a person. 13 year old being confronted with modern porn and the image it delivers breaks my heart a little bit to be honest. Young people having no idea what sex is about, watching violent and misogynistic porn is very dangerous for our society in general.
Of course I know censorship can’t be the answer and UK can fuck itself with its age controls, but idk, I feel like we gotta do something about this.
Choking is for sure not the line we should draw, just to make that clear. Next thing is only missionary position, fuck your christian values.
I first looked up porn online around that age and never had that kind of image of sex at any point. No idea if that’s due to my personality, the fact that I read a lot of people’s perspectives online which told me porn is unrealistic, or just that I had plenty of idea what sex was about at 13 because of course I had questions before then and any answer I got emphasized the part where both parties involved enjoy it and love each other.
Maybe a bit of all of them. But I really think that while trying to restrict porn access for minors a little more than an “are you 18” pop-up is probably a good thing, it needs to be without violating any adult’s privacy and the main way to prevent damage is and always will be better education.
Ah yes, “the government”.
It’s a BBC article, so it stands to reason that this is about the UK government.
Wait, that’s not a porn site?
Might be a good idea to say which government when you’re posting to world news?
I mean, I honestly think it’s pretty obvious givwn how the brits banned fisiting porn
I think everyone is missing the point that this is effectively a shodow ban on porn. The Gov knows that sites aren’t going to filter specific content for specific regions, it’s cheaper and safer to simply stop serving those regions. Yes, a VPN will get around that, but VPNs are probably next on the agenda.
