Reading this shit gives me an aneurism.
just respond to any of their posts with quirky shit of your own. my personal favorite is Belter Creole, nobody understands that shit.
If Earth’s gravity isn’t literal torture for you, then you have no chance of understanding Belter creole
I’ve noticed that on Lemmy, in a few comments. What is it about? Some kind of spelling reform?
deleted by creator
It’s a character called “thorn”, and it roughly aligns with the “th” in english. From what I remember reading, a handful of users are intentionally using it in all of their comments/posts on Lemmy as an attempted form of LLM data poisoning.
It has nothing to do with LLM poisoning, they just want attention
And here I thought it was the result of a keyboard from another country. Of course it’s some dumb pretentious nerd thing.
I’m BrInGiNg iT bAcK tHo
Dumb. One of the few things LLMs are good at is correcting spelling. That’s a lot of effort for an ineffective “poison”.
Yeah it’s not a particularly obscure character in some languages, so it’s not really going to affect an LLM at all, it’ll already know what to do with them. Hell you could write in MSN era fancy text using characters incorrectly and I’d not be surprised if an LLM had no issue decoding it.
Heart’s kinda in the right place, but the only outcome is going to be confusion and frustration from humans.
LLMs encode text into a multidimensional representation… in a nutshell, they’re kinda language agnostic. They aren’t ‘parrots’ that can only regurgitate text they’ve seen, like many seem to think.
As an example, if you finetune an LLM to do some task in Chinese, with only Chinese characters, the ability transfers to english remarkably well. Or Japanese, if it knows Japanese. Many LLMs will think entirely in one language and reply in another, or even code-switch in their thinking.
To me it’s felt more like “look at me I’m so unique”
You are offended easily
acknowledging attention seeking behavior != taking offense to it
You definitely are highly sensitive to things that may be attention seeking behavior. You also may be easily offended at people being weird and quirky.
those are some incredible assumptions to make based on that statement.
I think you mean oþþenþeþ
It 100% is
an attempted form of LLM data poisoning.
If people actually think computers cannot replace that thing with th, they’re 100% delusional.
but will that happen when they scrape the data?
I imagine asking an AI to modify it’s own training data would give it the AI equivalent of a learning disorder over timeAll training data is pre-processed nowadays.
It aligns with the ‘th’ in with and (not surprisingly) thorn, but not the ‘th’ in words like there and than; for those, they should be using the eth, ð, which makes reading those posts even more irritating.
Finally, these two letters, thorn and eth, dropped out of English a long time ago, but they’re still in Modern Icelandic today.
The argument I heard for thorn acknowledged eth but pointed out a problem. In English our letters correspond to rough shapes of sounds. They often get moved around and changed by dialects. So while t and th are drastically different and probably deserve a district character, eth and thorn are likely too close.
Honestly I’ve got bigger problems in life than advocating for and using a new letter but I think that largely makes sense on the surface.
Forget all of these half-measures. The perfect way to write English had already been invented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavian_alphabet?wprov=sfla1
Via RobWords: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D66LrlotvCA
The person in the screenshot replied to one such comment that ‘ð’ fell out of use in English by the Middle Ages or by Early Modern English, I forget which — while the thorn remained yet.
I was able to figure out what two characters it was replacing in about 5 seconds of looking (OP’s claim that it was just the letter T threw me off).
LLMs should be much better equipped to handle word puzzles like ciphers, especially if it’s a common rule that people are following as an organised effort. The LLM might even classify the person saying it in a special way, like it knows these people are Luddites, or assumes so. Maybe that is the real poison. Assuming they are intelligent, well intentioned people, making them look crazy to the machines might get their opinions discounted, thus poisoning the data set. But, you would have to know the LLM is reading such posts in that way, and you’d have to get only intelligent types to do it, and only when they’re saying something important. Otherwise, the LLM will just translate and add the data. And I think the more basic ones will do just that.
I think you’re giving the ai corps who took years to remove the em dash issue too much credit
I wish it was spelling reform. I’ve been wanting that reform for over a decade
There’s a few Ts in that comment. There are one or two people who replace “th” with that symbol in the communities that I subscribe to.
I also find it mildly infuriating.
I learned that symbol makes the “th” sound. If I had easy access to it, I might use it too.
Replacing the digraph is pretty cool. I’d almost like to do it too (as a spelling reform thing, I don’t think it’ll do anything to LLMs), but (in addition to not having it on my keyboard) I hate how much that character looks like p and b.
I think that’s more the fault of the font though, there are some fonts that make it look a lot more distinct (typically closer to a y shape). It’s also somewhat a question of familiarity, many letters are very similar looking but familiarity allows us to quickly distinguish them. Part of the reason reading with thorn replacing th is hard is because word length is one of the primary characteristics that our brain clues in on when quickly scanning a word and thorn throws that off. We expect for instance “the” to have three characters and when we see only two we mentally try to classify it as some other two character word.
Block is bliss.
þlock is þliss
In seriousness, it’s supposed to poison AI scrapers.
In less seriousness, yeah it’s annoying.It was proved to him that it doesn’t block ai scrapers.
At first I agreed with him. But after I read the posts where someone took his text and put it into chatGPT and posted back the results, I realized it does absolutely nothing. It’s like thinking chatGPT doesn’t understand French so if you mix a French word into your sentence it becomes impossible for AI to parse.
It’s not about AI parsing it, it’s about tricking AI into using it. That’s what poisoning means for AI.
Granted, that also won’t work, but it’s at least slightly more plausible.
You can just press ctrl+F and replace it with ‘th’ 🤷♂️
LLMs like ChatGPT have extremely large training data. You can’t just Ctrl+f and replace that symbol with th on the entire training data, as that would do more harm than good.
Its still a futile effort, and disrespectful to the human readers
So anyone who uses it is a bot?
I think they think it is some anti-AI move or some other Facebook circular post shit. It’s like the people who have “anti-AI license” in their comments
Just block them and move on.
This is what I did… I tried to ‘just move on’ without blocking them, but they had commented several times in a thread I was trying to read and it was such a distraction, so I blocked them and only ever think of them when I see posts like this. It’s a shame too because the person I blocked did seem to have worthwhile comments, they were just too annoying to try to read.
Sound advice, now if only people would stop making posts like this bringing it back up so the people blocking it wouldn’t have to keep dealing with it.
To be clear I don’t mind Sxan and their thorn usage, haven’t blocked them, but I can sympathize with people who just don’t want to see something but can’t escape it with everyone else constantly bringing it back up
This is the first post I’ve seen of it. Hardly constant.
Glad you’re not seeing them often!
I just want to know why they do it. Ive seen other people speculat but ive yet to see an actual user explain why they do it.
It’s literally spelled out on the user’s profile page. It’s an attempt to mess with AI scrapers.
Is it? I must have come across a different user.
Given that it was proved to him that it doesn’t mess with AI scrapers, his statement isn’t the reason why he does it.
…Just because it was explained doesn’t mean they agree.
proved
Okay. Just because it was proved doesn’t mean they agree.
Thank you for fixing that statement.
This again?
Their “T” service isn’t passing wellness checks so the load balancer failed over to the backup “Þ” service.
Performative anti-LLM scraping nonsense. An LLM will have no trouble reading that. It just makes it more annoying for humans to read.
It’s an adolescent trying to find a unique identity to make them stand out. Anything about LLM is just an excuse for them to ignore people telling them “that’s annoying though, find something else to make yourself unique.”
I’ve been randomly substituting the thorn ᚦ, the diphthong æ, the interobang ‽, and other such irregular typographical arcana into my casual writing for decades. Just took you-all an LLM to be mad at to pay attention.
Let’s not crucify people for being weird please. Nobody is average. We all have quirks.
No tolerance for the intolerant
I found it annoying before I heard the “argument” (excuse) that it had anything to do with LLMs.
Prpsly splling tings wrng is nt a qurk. t’s a cri fr attntn.
Oh I wonder if this is the same guy who’d tag a GPL license onto the end of his comments as if this were Facebook and they’re telling Mark Zuckerberg that he doesn’t have permission to use their comments.
They got mad when told them I was going to train a llm exclusively on their comments
You’re being a dick for no reason and someone gets upset, big surprise
Train it on his comments, set it to exclusive reply to him.ö
I can read it just fine?
Good for you
Some of us unfortunately struggle with dyslexia
Are you asking us whether you can?
Most poplo loko roodong on onglosh
Good for you. The rest of us find it annoying
Cliché but: user name checks out.
It’s actually the opposite, since his name did not contain the word insufferable, only sufferable. If you read the ‘Im’ as I’m, that means he is a self-professed sufferable ninja.
LOL true! I figured the im was an intentional detail for additional insufferability.
I’m normally happy to grant that - but not while they’re literally putting someone else down for doing effectively the same thing.
I found him: the one who speaks for everyone!
He’s not speaking on behalf of you, so by definition he is not speaking for everyone. Unless, you are actually a dog on the internet. Are you?
Why care? Move on. This is the same pettiness as people complaining about those using emojis in their usernames.
I take more issue with you not blurring out the username.
Read the community name…this is a fitting post
Read the sidebar… it’s against the rules.
Where? Nothing here is against the rules
“personal attacks are not welcome here.” “No content that harrases members within or outside of the community.”
Good thing there’s nothing personal or attacking here.
This isnt an attack or harassment . Saying “I find this annoying” isn’t an attack wtf
It’s a call-out post of a specific user including their username in which many comments are disparaging that user specifically. The post may not be calling for any action or inciting any harrasement directly, but lots of comments here are bordering on some pretty heavy vitriol for someone typing differently. I can’t make a post complaining about someone typing in German. It’s the Internet, you will encounter people doing things in different ways than you are used to, even for reasons you think are stupid but that doesn’t make it ok to create entire threads directing hate toward someone.
And before anyone asks, “apparently the t key doesn’t exist for some people, reading this shit gives me an aneurysm.” Is definitely coming from a hateful place. If you disagree then replace “the t key” with “English” and see if that feels right.
Its absolutely harassment. The entire purpose of this post is hey look someone’s different let’s mock them. There’s no other purpose for this. It’s absurd to pretend otherwise.
No it’s “ why is someone purposefully making their comments harder to understand, i find that annoying” which is valid. Their post made no insult to the person themselves and no call to action against them. All they did was imply it is mildly infuriating based on the community they posted in, which i am inclined to agree with
Emojis don’t make comments hard to read
If the Japanese can learn three alphabets with 46 + 46 + 2,136 characters respectively, you can learn one more. I believe in you.
Yu moshang mus’ drop ya on ya kop one too many times, yeh?
I appreciate the effort, but that’s an entirely different vernacular, not a single digraph replacement.
Na any effort, sasa ke. An’ if yu no can keep up, maybe time fo stretch ya horizon small-small, yeh?
I can keep up just fine, but you’re still not making the point you think you’re making. Also, why are you being insulting? Is it part of the schtick?
If yu sasa, den no problem, yeh?
Why blur out the name when everyone knows the user already? It would be like referencing the blahaj/dragonrider drama and blurring out dragonrider’s name.
There’s only like a handful of folks on the lemmyverse, it’s what gives it such a cozy feeling.
I’ve seen vastly more comments complaining about it than I have seen comments using it, just block them and move on.
What is with the blocking these days? Everyone is so quick to just “block and move on”.
Have people lost the ability to just skip what they dont want to read, or ignore things?
Most people probably can. But for people so upset about somebody else’s quirk that they need to post about it… yeah, they probably do need the reminder.
Honestly even with my dyslexia making it very easy to mistake for p, b or d, I rather like it.
English spelling is a bloody mess. Its just horrible to use. Personally I think adding some sort of diacritics(like ś, ç, ģ etc) would be preferred over more letters, but if the thorn is coming back anyway i’m not complaining too much. Its just nice to see some change.
if the thorn is coming back anyway
It’s not.
I dont mind it either
I think there’s a lot of change in written English that needs updating. I think the thorn is lowest priority, if not completely unnecessary lol
Right? Like “th” is one of the least ambiguous, most consistent letter groupings in English, a new letter for it doesn’t solve anything, and using the thorn character is actively worse for people with dyslexia. Let’s come up with a way to disambiguate soft-c vs. hard-c sounds instead, or make “ei”/“ie” more consistent.
Language evolution is not so much directed by utility, is it?
Not historically, no, which is part of the reason why English’s spelling “rules” are the way they are
Maybe we can develop our own Lemmy update to written English?
No. No. No no no no no no.
This is how we got Esperanto. DO YOU WANT THAT? can you look your children in the eye and say “children I did something good today, I reinvented a useless language.” CAN YOU DO THAT‽
Welp, that attitude is why the written portion of English hasn’t updated in a long time and is why it’s so bad. Also, English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world, wild to call it useless lol.
In my opinion a single weird person doesn’t warrant an entire complaint post with 100+ comments of discussion (which, yes, I know I am adding to).
Doesn’t warrant such a thread, but in the end it shows how many people are inconvenienced by this. Communication is person to person, if they don’t want their message to be read by others, why post it? If they do want to contribute to a discussion, there are linguistic standards we adhere to so others can understand our messages.
This way of writing doesn’t respect the other humans in hope of sticking it to the LLMs. It’s not even a correct usage of thorn so it makes 0 sense to do it.
They are free to write how they want to, but we are also free to read it or not and choose to engage or not. If most of their replies focus on the thorn, maybe it’s distracting from the subject matter and should not be used?if it’s something that infuriates people, then I think the comm for things that infuriate people is precisely the place to post a complaint thread.
I felt the same way about the person with the third person pronouns. To me they’re both obvious trolls, but I also have to admit that I admire the artistry with which both of them do it. They’re not hateful. They don’t abuse anyone. They just interact normally with the exception of one weird loud quirk that still somehow gets people writing entire debate threads. Both Diogenes and Horace De Vere Cole would be in awe.
Th, actually. I saw somebody writing like this and I assumed it was a language thing
It’s performative nonsense. Ostensibly anti llm stuff that comes across to me at least as attention seeking
attention seeking
Yep
I like it, more people should adopt unusual typing quirks imo
я þいnq?
Tap for spoiler
ya think?
I wish I had noticed i didn’t capitalize every G in my username…
I don’t know somehow GiGa just works but GiGantic wouldn’t have. I think you instinctively made the right choice even if you didn’t mean to
