On Linux. Still. Its names like these encouraging people to switch that help the switch along.
Since most of Lemmy users are Linux fans, this headline sounds nice but is a bit misleading if you read the original post from Mozilla:
How can I get the newest features of Firefox?
If you want to keep your Firefox up to date, with all the latest features and security updates, you need to upgrade your operating system to Windows 10 or higher. In some cases, Microsoft may require newer hardware in order to support the newer operating system. After upgrading, you can easily reinstall Firefox and keep all of your settings.
Or, if your current hardware can’t handle Windows 10 or higher for some reason, you can switch to a Linux-based operating system. The vast majority of Linux distributions come with Firefox as the default browser. Please see the support websites for the version of Linux that you’re interested in.
sounds nice but is a bit misleading
To me it even sounds kind of scary. If they are telling users you need to switch your OS to continue using our app, that is going to isolate users and further decrease user base and market share. And apps that no one uses usually die. So for people who like Firefox, it doesn’t sound so nice. I’m also a Linux user, but I’m not sure if this is a positive way to drive users to Linux. (Thought it does mention windows 10 upgrade hardware requirement limitations, which might be a positive way to drive users to Linux, thanks Microsoft.)
But windoze 10 or 11 are different operating systems then windows 7 or 8.
What a bad take.
Are you really asking Mozilla to restart supporting Windows XP as well because the web browser is used for some embedded application, too?And so what?
If the user liked Firefox, they will need to switch the OS anyway. Doesnt matter if Apple, MS or Linux. Firefox is present in all them.man I’m facing either needing to get a new pc in THIS market to use 10, or find an entire new professional software workflow to do my job. professional video on Linux isn’t real. hobbysist video sure, but pro video work with partners just isn’t realistic on linux.
this is the first thing that’s actually pushing me hard.
Yoy are doing professional video work on a PC old enough that it can’t run Windows 10?
How the hell are you editing video on a PC that can’t even support Windows 10?
I’m fairly certain they meant 11.
That doesn’t make any sense, though. Firefox still supports Windows 10. It’s just support for 7 and 8 that’s ending.
Even if it’s windows 11 that they meant then what are they doing professionally that runs at acceptable speeds?
If this is actually for work where you get paid money you’d probably be better off financing a new computer and doubling your output.
There are plenty of very powerful machines that can’t run win11 because they don’t have TPM2.0. It has nothing to do with their specs being unable to run the OS. It’s a scam by Microsoft to force people to upgrade
i did mean 11, My pc is plenty powerful it just doesn’t happen to include a tpm chip. i have no issues with power. it handles 4k 120p 10 bit timelines fine. upgrading right now in this market would be asinine if software wasn’t pushing me into 11.
Market share for Win 7-8.1 is, no joke, 0.69% (nice). And how many of those users are running FireFox?
Those versions of windows haven’t had support for years. They shouldn’t even be connected to the internet.
They shouldn’t even be connected to the internet.
Yes. What’s also true is that sometimes they must be. You will disagree until you find the exception.
There’s nothing great about companies dropping support and also keeping the code in-house so we can’t contract out improvements and fixes, but unless we change that we’re stuck in a world where ridiculously expensive hardware either needs an old OS or becomes astoundingly expensive e-waste. And yes, it needs to connect sometimes. And yes, that’s a scary as shit.
Yes. What’s also true is that sometimes they must be. You will disagree until you find the exception.
No, there should never be any reason to connect these versions to the internet.
If you are talking about legacy software in a corporate setting, then a vm should do the trick 99% of the time. If that legacy software needs an internet connection (which is already questionable), then you bridge only the specific port it needs to the connected interface. If that doesn’t work either, then you get a separate PC explicitly for that software and disallow pretty much all other connections.
If you are talking about private use, then the only thing keeping you on a windows version older than 10 is your unwillingness to upgrade. Its understandable, but it doesn’t change the fact that these versions have massive security holes and shouldn’t be used anymore.
Half od my customers still use Win 7, a few on XP, some on8 for some reason, most on 10.
Then there’s maybe 10% on linux.Most industries are adverse to change and if you can just patch and continue then fine, especially if you don’t need internet like with a POS.
If you keep using Windows, you clearly do not care about your privacy at all. You can dual boot, there are no excuses.
I’m not very techie, so when I took my brand new Lenovo (cheap) laptop from w11 to Linux mint, it really felt like an achievement. I haven’t used a command terminal since college, and I straight up made a bootable usb and wiped w11
Nice, that’s sick. I’m soft modding my Wii atm and it also feels good.
Nice!!! But I feel those entry distros could do a lot more to be more user friendly, there are many edge cases where you still need to use a terminal and have some understanding of the OS. We need a truly GUI only distro with more wizards, and automatic repair so more people flee to Gnu/Linux
Edge cases are well, on the edge and sometimes you just need to let them go. You can’t always be everything to everyone.
Hell yeah brother
it was bullshit when they ended support for XP, and now I have to find alternatives on 7!!?
fuck you Mozilla, you just lost a customer!
Or you could move away from legacy systems entirely by installing Linux.
if you’re serious pls update your shit it’s time to move on big bro
I run all my systems on XP and 7. I don’t like all this techno AI bullshit.
my whole work laptop is from 2002 and runs XP just fine!
Dude you are my worst nightmare as a security person modern hacking techniques are so unbelievably far ahead of XP, just go to Win10/Linux at least
ew gross!
isn’t linix one of those things hackers use?
besides, Win10 got rid of my computer and hid control panel. it’s a garbage OS that can’t even run DOS properly.
XP sp2 is peak performance!
Hackers do use Linux, but only Kali Linux. And Tor browser.
Windows 10 is more secure because they added security (to stop the hackers). And epic OneDrive login so all your files can sink.
I don’t need onedrive, I have My Briefcase.
I also have a really secure password on my XP install so no hackers can get in.
Ummmm. Buddy. Microsoft can’t train Copilot from a briefcase, you’re not being very community-oriented.
And hackers can type really fast so they can guess your password even if it’s something complicated like GoPanthers123!
Then upgrade to Linux.
Forgot the /s mate
Funny how often people get downvoted to hell here for posts that are obviously sarcasm.
I don’t get it.
/s stands for sarcasm, which is what I think you wanted to say.
Because its really hard to expect anyone to understand if you are joking or not in text form.
ok, I can’t keep stringing you along because I feel like you’re literally not getting the sarcasm.
yes, it was sarcasm.
no, I didn’t forget it.
still don’t understand? read the meme.
You need to be clear with things like this.
I am literally unable to understand sarcasm.
I understand. I don’t agree, but I understand.
How did you know that it was supposed to be sarcastic, then? You said they forgot the /s. How were you able to identify sarcasm if you can’t understand it?
lol how much have you been paying them?
at least $25 a month for the past year!
they won’t get another dime from me, that’s for sure.
Rookie mistake. After your free trial is over, just cancel it and start a new one.
is that why they send me all those AOL CDs?
Calm down, XP was 13 years old when it was retired. It lived a long, happy life. And Windows 7 was released seventeen years ago.
Using either OS in 2026 is extremely dangerous and stupid. Please switch to Linux.
Is there a good distro to pick for a surface tablet?
My understanding is you need a specific kernel, which likely limits your choices somewhat (dunno, don’t have one, but that seems like a good place to start). Seems totally doable though.
Ubuntu working got damn flawlessly out of the box. Might try a dual boot with arch later when feeling like doing clicky clacks
One of the main places windows is used, like it or not, are organizations and companies. Especially small ones. Specially ones that are not in wealthy countries. And the only thing that keeps them from switching to linux is microsoft office. (Most importantly Word, excel).
My company has ~20 people and I would switch them over to linux if it wasn’t for word and excel.
While libreoffice is great on it’s own, companies send eachother xlsx and docx files. And libreoffice isnt great at reading or writing them. Specially complex ones. I don’t think it’s much of libre office’s fault, but more the shitty incompatible, unstandardized microsoft formats.
Currently I’m the only Linux user in the team, and I constantly advocate Linux, but I know if anybody switches, compatibility with microsoft office is going to be a problem. I can take the risk with the tech team but not the office section (hr, sales, secretary accounting etc.) really.
Did you try OnlyOffice? I heard it has good compatibility with Microsoft Office’s files, it’s available on almost every OS, and looks easy to use. However, I’m not sure if you can create very complex documents like with Office.
It’s good but not great. The documents will still get messed up and look wierd sometimes.
That’s the rub isn’t it. It’s good, but not quite good enough all the time, every time.
There is stuff Office 360 or whatever is called to that online Microsoft Office can do just fine from Firefox or Chrome based browsers. But if things get overcomplicated, it’s as good or even worse than Libreoffice at handling xlsx, docx documents.
Even current Office struggles with early Office documents.
Microsoft dominance in businesses is part of what’s making me think all businesses are in cahoots with each other to make sure the only businesses that are successful are ones that take power away from the public.
This is the same thing that keeps my parents on windows. I do agree it’s not libre offices fault
Try onlyoffice and slowly try to shift to libreoffice with open document formats. Or just skip that part and move everyone to the web versions of office. Also if you guys are on office 2010, the last time I ran it via wine, it worked completely fine.
No you cannot shift to open document formats because you can’t send an odt file to another company. They will not know what it is. In the enterprise world you have to “send them the word” or “the excel”.
I’m most case you provably want to just send the document as PDF, don’t you? For which use case do you want to send an editable document to another company?
Man I feel you and I know it’s just how things are. But I often ask myself the following question: Why are lots of office workers so bad with computers? It’s the tool they use for 1/3 of working day in their life. Just like a craftsman should learn to use their tools. No, instead they always act like it’s something only tech guys should know about.
An electrician drives around in their van full of their tools. They are expert in their tools, but some can’t even change a tire on the van.
It’s the same with office jobs. You use a bunch of tools on the computer, but the computer isn’t necessarily a part of your tool set, it’s your vehicle.
I would do anything for Firefox to stop making a new audio sink for every tab that plays audio. Of course Chromium lets you have just one sink, so I’m just going to blame Firerox’s implementation of HTML5
The advantage there is that one tab can’t crash the others.
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If you play on a machine that is not connected to internet, then by all means there is no reason to switch. But of you are connected to the internet, then those system pose security risks and you would be better off having an up to date system. If Win 10 wasn’t EOL then maybe the advice to upgrade to Win10 would be solid.
If you’re still using those old and bugged versions then you probably don’t care about unpatched software. Big security issues. Hope no one is using them.
Honestly surprised to learn that they were still supporting 7-8.1 until now.
Microsoft did as well - 8.1 still had ESU support, and as Server 2008 R2 had paid extended support and as it shared a kernel with Vista & 7 you could use those to keep your system updated as well. IIRC both ended January this year.
NGL, I have Win 7 on a Mac that I play old as hell PC games with and FF has been a disaster on it for a long time - to the point where I get most of the downloads of games and the various drivers they need with the macOS install…
Pretty sure Mozilla has the numbers on how many installations each OS has, so it’s probably a legitimate decision. HOWEVER, if they want to maintain their position on Linux, I highly recommend changing the default behavior of Ctrl+Shift+C to match how it works in Helium, where it simply copies the selected content instead of opening Developer Mode, which cannot be closed again using the same keystroke.
I doubt they’ll change that, since Ctrl+Shift+C also opens the dev console on chromium based browsers on Windows (just tried it with Chrome and Edge). Not sure if that’s the behavior on Linux, since I only use Firefox there.
Also, I really doubt that Ctrl+Shift+C behavior is going to factor into people’s decision anyway. That’s a very niche problem to have.
Can confirm ctrl-shift-c opens dev console
I keep mixing up the shortcuts because ctrl-shift-c is copy in the KDE terminal
This behavior isn’t unique to KDE’s Konsole; many others share it. Since
Ctrl + Cperforms an entirely different function in most Linux terminals/shells, Firefox’s default behavior feels out of place. It’s admittedly a niche problem, but to me, it looks like an ‘alien’ in the Linux world.EDIT: Thinking about it, this is actually exactly how GNU software usually works: set a weird default behavior so that people are incentivized to figure out how the software actually works just to change it.
Also incentivizes people to not use it.
Unless Google’s search AI lied to me (and surely it would never do that) this is all Apple’s fault anyway. They are the one’s that highjacked Ctrl+c for the copy function.
Unfortunately, that has become ingrained now everywhere other than the Linux terminal. And as Gui interfaces have improved over the years, average users are spending less time there, and Ctrl+shift+c has become the option that feels out of place.
But copy is Command+C on macOS and iOS, not Ctrl+C. Maybe in the Classic Mac OS days, but I doubt they would’ve made such a significant change moving to OS X.
Yeah potentially it would be easier/more concise if I’d adjust my terminal/shell to remap the
crtl+c , crtl +shift +cbehavior instead of demanding the whole world revert a decision made in the last century.
You can change that in about:keyboard in the new Firefox versions
Ah the classic Linux community response to any complaint.
- The default either actively ignores what every other software does or purposely uses something other than everything else for no apparent reason.
- Someone brings up the fact that it makes no sense why it’s different and how it makes the user experience worse.
- Someone else recommends a half baked solution that still doesn’t really solve the problem and doesn’t address the fact that the specific weirdness being default is the issue. So it ignores the actual complaint and only provides a half solution.
- Nothing is ever done to address the issue and it remains for decades constantly annoying new users and being one of thousands of small issues that turn potential curious new users away as they accumulate.
Proposing a fix is better than no fix? I didn’t know it was possible, and now I’m looking into it.
Changing the default is a social issue, so of course it’s more difficult than changing one’s current setting.
The fuck you want us to do about it? We don’t have commit access to firefox’s codebase.
Why is that persons response considered the community response?
Ive been using Linux for 20 years so… Can we change that shortcut please?
Absolutely, all behavior can be changed somehow. But the default defines the product :)
Interesting. And yet it’s still incomplete. F6 and Alt+D both do the same thing (focus the address bar), so there’s at least one line missing and definitely at least one column.
Why?
What’s wrong with Ctrl+C to copy? Its the default shortcut on pretty much everything except terminals.
Whats wrong with using the metric system to represent quantities? Its the default on pretty much everything except fueling planes or operating satellites. /s
The conflict arises from having two different defaults for the same action. Since users frequently switch between these environments, the lack of a universal shortcut causes constant friction.
The key issue is that the request is to change behavior in one place (browser) to match that of a rare case (terminal), causing a mismatch with the frequent case (office suites, mail programs, …). The terminal is the odd one out, not the browser, and ought be the one to change the default for the reason you provide.
In practice, a terminal is a special case and not just a text input window, and current convention is that Ctrl + C aborts / cancels.
(You could of course have a duplicate hotkey, but now you are inconsistent w.r.t. other browsers, and there will be someone else who will be annoyed by the difference)
Actually, Ctrl+C is the ASCII Code for the control character ETX (End of Text) since the early 60s. This is not a hotkey but a control character. To change this system, you’d have to change not only dozends of terminal emulators and the kernels of all unixoid operating systems, but at least ANSI, Unicode and Posix, too. And Windows, by the way - even Microsoft uses ctrl+c in both cmd.exe and powershell to kill the running process.
To be similarly pedantic: Ctrl+C is a hotkey that sends the corresponding ASCII code / codepoint to signal something, it is not an ASCII code itself.
You could have the same character be sent by using Ctrl+Q (if you were to remap it), and not break compatibility with other processes while doing so: the codepoint being sent would be the same. From a technological perspective there is nothing special about the key combination Ctrl+C specifically, but altering this behavior in a terminal absolutely wreak havoc on the muscle memory of terminal users, and altering it’s behavior in a text editor on everyone else’s.
Yeah the person who put Developer Mode on that shortcut… Must have never used linux.
95 was the last good windows i said what i said
98SE enters the chat
XP SP3 enters the chat.
Ride the sine wave…Or the cosine wave until it hurts so good.
I did like 98SE a lot, was impressed by 95 and loved 3.1, but the first really great, stable, modern windows was 2k
I had all the above but I had 2k the longest. I miss it.
The PC Gamer article’s title also says “upgrade or”. That’s a heck of a detail to editorialize out of the title.
From the Mozilla post it cites:
After this, no security updates will be provided and you are strongly encouraged to upgrade to a supported Microsoft Windows version.
Or, if your current hardware can’t handle Windows 10 or higher for some reason, you can switch to a Linux-based operating system. The vast majority of Linux distributions come with Firefox as the default browser.
I agree switching to Linux is the better option. I want to try Bazzite.
Bazzite’s excellent, just be aware going in that it’s an immutible distro and some stuff may be different than you’re used to.
It will be different anyway, as it is a completely different operating system that has nothing in common with windows.
Windows is mutable. That’s likely what they are referring to.
Except it will prevent you from mutating many of its system files. I mean it’s not a good argument for a former Windows user, unless they get a sudden urge to tinker with all possible system files on Linux (which is possible to do on immutable systems in one way or another, but it’s much harder and not as straightforward)
It’s also not as stable as they market it to be
Bazzite is amazing, nearly bulletproof even?
I had a few times where it booted to the grub emergency shell, but it literally just fixed itself. Just reboot and it uses the other A/B slot. And the next update attempt just fixes whatever the problem was. That’s only happened twice in the last 5 months since I switched. Most longtime Linux users should be very familiar with the grub emergency shell, but I’ve never been on a distro where it just fixes itself. I don’t ever have to think or worry about updates, it’s just a reliable daily driver. It’s sick.
As people have said, Bazzite is immutable. You can install system packages/libraries if you absolutely need to, but you really should run your custom stuff in a Distrobox instead. Distrobox is preinstalled, supports graphical apps automatically, and most of the time you won’t even notice it’s not your real OS.
I think Bazzite is more stable and usable than Windows now. I’m tempted to switch my parents to it, it’s been much more fault tolerant than Windows 11.
Yeah, Linux is an afterthought, but I’m glad that they brought it up at all. They could’ve mentioned how Linux is more privacy-conscious than Windows, but that might’ve opened them up to a lawsuit.
With the list of old Windows vulnerabilities so extensive Firefox could simply just install Linux for users like that.
Most of them (I assume such VMs don’t use browsers) would just click [Agree] and then [Next] a few times, never knowing what was it about, maybe not even noticing any differences.
/s
So, basically Microsoft’s “we know what’s best for you” style? No. Fuck that, no matter the purpose.
I was joking.
I added the “/s” to be extra clear.
I didn’t think of anyone taking that statement seriously (like how wound it even work?).You know there is some dude the thought removing the /s would make that a valid suggestion.
Thought virus’ are real.
Apologies. I’ve seen weirder shit proposed recently. 2025 has severely damaged my sensors responsible for detecting irony, sarcasm and satire.
As for “how would it work”: on systems as old as Win 7, it would be trivial to escalate privileges and install all kinds of shit.
I do agree with you, I could have written it significantly better (in my brainhole the notion of a browser/browser dev installing you an OS bcs it would mean less work for them was just funny, but I failed in communicating it).
Also lol, yeah, 2025 did a number on irony/nutty theories/near future predictions. 2026 is no better, like whym there aren’t any HDDs left, what kind of worldwide catastrophe hit Earth & caused that??
The install bit - so getting through admin Win would prob be easy (that was the og joke), then the code would have to partition the disk (ok), install Hannah Montana Linux (ok), but then also reboot to that partition - can that be done without Grub on a primary boot partition or the user accessing BIOS?
can that be done without Grub on a primary boot partition or the user accessing BIOS?
I was assuming you’d just write GRUB onto the primary disk and set Hannah Montana Linux (lol, excellent choice of distro!) as the only boot option (because who needs os-prober and a selection timeout when you’ve got the best of distros on disk, amirite?).
I suppose the most problematic part is the partitioning you handwaved as “ok”. Afair, Windows does not allow for live-resizing of the system partition (as it should). But I suppose there are ways around that, particularly if you’ve got another drive or spare partition of adequate size. (OEM recovery partitions come to mind; as much as 10 GB can be enough for a viable Linux system partition.)
Oh, your are right, I always resized partitions with Knoppix or (something with) GParted (Live).
Perhaps there is a way to use Windows partition without any reformat, reboot into the same partition but in Linux, finish installing the rest of the packages & clean up Windows file.
Using them old OEM partitions is a neat idea too.
I’ll open a ticket with Mozilla.
Hannah Montana, Knoppix… a man of culture I see…
I’ll open a ticket with Mozilla.
…who wants to see the world burn!
Probably hard to support old platforms if the entire toolchain, predominantly owned by Microsoft isn’t supporting them either.
