(If you know where I stole this from, I love you.)
Gnome is very competently made except it’s made for a different genre of person to me, and their attitude towards customisation is outright disdainful. You install an extension or mess around in tweaks and gnome looks at you like you just used the salad fork for seafood.
I think it’s made for people who like Macs or sth.
Wouldn’t be a problem(people can use whatever makes them happy) if the gnome Devs shit attitude didn’t trickle outwards and harm customizability in other environments.
I hopped from a fully customized AwesomeWM install on Arch to Gnome on Debian and… there is something to be said about having your OS look & work cleanly out of the box.
Serious question. Why is there an expectation that your DE should be customizable? Isn’t the fact that you can choose one in the first place a customization?
Customization is necessary especially in the free software space because designers aren’t good enough to make acceptable defaults.
I love KDE, but each new install takes a bit of fiddling to get it just the way I want.
I wouldn’t have as much of an issue with GNOME’s lack of customization if they didn’t make stupid-ass decisions.
Why is there an expectation that your DE should be customizable?
Why wouldn’t there be? It’s Linux. Everything should be customizable.
And it is. If you don’t like it fork it
I’m sure that’s the attitude that will help make Linux a prominent desktop OS among the general population. /s
I don’t care much about whether gnome is customizable, if people like it then great, but I hate how they’re forcong terrible patterns that often break other DEs (window decorations)
Because the point of Linux is I get to make it my own
If I wanted to use what the Devs tell me is the right setup and “just works”, I’d not own a computer at all. I’d just get an iPad, which has that appliance like “no options, just does what it’s made to do, works great under those constraints” thing going for it.
You have as much customizability as you will take for yourself. If you don’t like it, fork it.
People did. That’s how we got MATE and Cinnamon; much better desktop environments.
I don’t think you understand the implications of what you’re suggesting.
Forking a project as large as Gnome is a massive undertaking. Not only is it a lot of up-front work to implement the functionality, but you also have to stay up-to-date with all upstream changes, and there’s likely at least a few Gnome developers that are paid to work on it full-time, so that is a lot to maintain. And not only do you have to build it for your own distro, but you also have to convince maintainers of other distros to adopt it as well and put it in their repositories, otherwise you have no community of users, which means no community of developers either.
Forking Gnome is wildly impractical. It’s not a feasible suggestion to make at all.
Orrrr I can use something else. Which I do. Something that respects the fact that my computer is in fact mine.
And like i said. It’d be fine if gnome was gnome… If it stayed in its fucking lane serving the people that like it.
But the gnome Devs have a lot of influence on how things like Wayland are taking shape, so their “let’s turn Linux into iPad” attitude does in fact affect me.
just used the salad fork for seafood.
What’s wrong with using the same fork for salad and seafood?
Posh person nonsense. At fancy parties you’re supposed to use different food weapons for each course and work your way from the outside in. Fairly sure the only reason it was invented was so rich ppl could show off how many fancy pieces of cutlery they owned.
Which is the vibe I get from Gnome’s design and its devs’ attitude in general. “Fancy party”. A bunch of dumbass rules you have no influence over and which people will sneer at you for breaking.
I’m a gnomer.
Right now I use kde customized to look almost exactly like gnome.
Care to share a screenshot?
The beautiful thing, though, is if you want to, you can do that.
Now try to make Gnome look almost exactly like KDE. And then the real difference between them becomes obvious.
Now try to make Gnome look almost exactly like KDE.
… try to make a duck look like a camoflage octopus? mimicking what?
KDE does have a default stock experience you know.
I want to downvote you out of fear, yet I want to upvote you for the audacity
GNOME was so great… Then GNOME 3 came out and it feels like it’s been designed by a person with severe brain damage.
So today I made a VM of Debian that has all the DE’s as a matter of experiment to try them all out back to back to get an idea of what each one feels like. And right out of the gate gnome feels, a bit too abstract? You don’t get the sense that one screen is the default homescreen over another.
It looks nice but it feels weirdly organised. (Which I’m sure I could get used too, but you know preferences)
on my normal desktop I use the flavor of the day DE, gnome is only used on my 40 inch touchscreen, because its the only one I could imagine being good on a touchscreen
It may not be a perfect environment, but you know - DEs don’t come with a handbook!
There are several manpages available in the terminal and online
In fact there were several manpages available in the terminal and online, but Lucille was in denial about that.
Well done. I read that in Ron Howard’s voice.
KDE literally comes with a manual. Hitting f1 almost anywhere will give you a help tool that explains everything in detail.
I once bought a physical copy of SuSE back in the before times, when downloading would take a prohibitively long time on a shitty dial-up connection (and then you’d still have to burn it on an expensive CD-R in order to install).
It did, in fact, come with a handbook for the DE.
I remember a boxed CD set of SuSE sold in bookstores around the year 2000.
I like gnome and it’s philosophy 😬
There’s plenty of “customizability” friendly options out there. I like how gnome isn’t afraid to break things to improve
Gnome haven’t “improved” anything since gnome 2. Gnome 3 and above? Only downhill from there.
They thought they were doing opinionated design while all they really did was ignore valid user concerns
That’s what a computer should look like, imo
So tired of all this oversimplification and enlarging of UI elements so they don’t disappear behind peoples’ thumbs
I use a MOUSE, not a HAND
/s
I mean I don’t dislike it.
I do dislike it. Sorry everyone.
Given that it isn’t 1994 anymore, your opinion is extremely reasonable.
Heavy dose of nostalgia there. I remember the Sun SPARCstations at uni and changing my desktop environment every other week.
I bet it’s lightweight as fuck, tho…
Yup! Still the default on HP-UX too!
Gnome has one great purpose and that is for tablets. Not a fan of their whole ethos though
Gnome has one great purpose and that is for tablets.
Doesn’t work well on tablets, though.
Worked great on my old surface, though the surface for linux kernel definitely helps that
If GNOME did a standard start menu style interface in 99% sure I’d be using that.
Which is funny because I don’t like start menus and wouldn’t use it
I find it weird how fixated people are in the start menu. To me it feels extremely clunky experience, no matter was it plasma or windows.
The way gnome has combined task switcher and “start menu” (rather comparable to finder in macos) just feels so much more natural.
Then there’s the application menu thing that I’ve maybe used twice in the past 5 years lol
You know you’re doing things right when there’s 2.5 million downloads to change a core paradigm of your DE.
Most users come from a Windows background, so they’re used to the “simplicity” of its start menu. For unknown reasons, many still favor the limited Windows-like experience over the native GNOME shell…
I agree. There is basically nothing to learn on GNOME that would take more than 5 minutes to explain. Windows sucks and included in that is the UI. I really don’t understand clinging to that UI so hard. If I didn’t know Stockholm syndrome wasn’t real, I’d call it akin to that …
Because Gnome Shell is terrible! Or, people just want to use their computer and not have to learn a whole new way to do it. Most desktops understand this.
Most users come from a Windows background, so they’re used to the “simplicity” of its start menu.
I think it’s that it’s jarring to go from “let me add a new thing to what I am doing” to “I need something new. EVERYTHING GO AWAY SO I CAN LOOK AT WHAT I WANT”
Are you just talking about the way the app launcher uses the whole screen? That seems like the silliest thing to care about… it’s there for 2 seconds while you type the name of the app you want, and letting you focus on that task. It’s not like I’m browsing the web in the background while I wait for the start-menu-equivalent.
Are you just talking about the way the app launcher uses the whole screen?
yep
That seems like the silliest thing to care about
well, I find it jarring. It’s my preference/feeling/aesthetic and I’m entitled to it. There are enough ways to do that don’t take up the whole screen that my opinion must be fairly common. Macs have spotlight, the start bar that has existed forever, Krunner…
Of course you’re entitled to your preference, no debating that.
I found the happily short-lived windows “metro” interface similarly jarring like you describe, but the gnome equivalent has never caused me any difficulty for some reason.
Same place as the famous banana quote! How much could a banana cost, Michael? $10?
I’ve always had deep suspicion of GNOME because of de Icaza’s involvement and the pretexts with which the project was started. Knowing that de Icaza ended up at Microsoft and is now a huge fan of MacOS and Apple confirmed my suspicions. Lucille Bluth is right, there I said it. 😍
I actually kinda like gnome. I like most of the others too, but I default to gnome. Also I use the hot corners all the time
I loved using multi desktop in Gnome. Hated using it anywhere else… Except i3. But still kinda like Gnome more. Though… Kinda hated my extensions constantly breaking.
Also I use the hot corners all the time
🤮
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Gnome… isn’t Gnome. Gnome 2.x/MATE is Gnome. Gnome 3.x and further is gnome shit (or dwarfen shit? We should ask DND specialists to clarify this moment)
Gnome’s devs are insular and don’t listen to suggestions from outsiders. That sounds like Svirfneblin to me!
I agree, GNOME 3+ is pure steaming shit.
I love open-source and I respect all free software projects. Except GNOME 3.
You can’t come up with something so horribly designed unless you’re trying to make it horrible on purpose.
why in the fuck is it pronounced guhnome
Because the “G” has gone silent for too long and will not take it anymore.
Fuck that, I’ll keep saying genome. Guhnome is much much worse than the jiff thing.
It’s not expect for the few times I ever talk about desktop environments with people IRL
To match GNU
Guh-NU
Because that’s how people speaking Old English would have pronounced it. And we all know how particular 10th century Saxons are about their Linux desktop.
I don’t pronounce it that way
why in the fuck is it pronounced guhnome
It’s not. There is no vowel between G and N. Watch an episode or two of Star Trek and listen to some Klingon or Vulkan names to learn how such a combination of letters is pronounced without adding a vowel.
lmfao gonna pass on the homework, teach
Lmao imagine taking that seriously
> he fell for the double cross
oh no no no no
