does not surprise me. Framework appeals to users, who love DIY. The same applies for Linux.
If you‘re not into Linux/DIY, MacBook gives you a much better offering for the same price. If you‘re a masochist wanting Windows, you simply have smooth other options for lower price.
I’d like to also point out that MacOS has a hypervisor support framework built in so it can virtualize Linux built for ARM (aarch64 or arm64) very well on the Apple Silicon variants and also x86 on the Intel ones.
You can set that up yourself or use something like utm, which makes it easier. UTM also lets you set up hypervisors that can run Linux built for different architectures. Of course you can also rock Asahi on Apple Silicon hardware and blah blah blah.
But also for the non-DIYers or those who cannot abide Apple anything but want Linux there are alternatives (feel free to add to this of course):
deleted by creator
They always were Linux-friendly. Some hardware choices like the fingerprint reader were directly related to Linux compatibility. Firmware and UEFI updates have always been available on Linux. They sponsor a lot of FOSS projects (some of them unfortunately linked to nazi dipshits, stirring a lot of controversy, but 99% of them are clean).
They may not have explicitely advertised Linux before, but they dropped a lot of hints.
When they started out, Linux had a lot less mindshare than it has now. Also Microsoft will absolutely retaliate against you, if you promote anything but their crapware. For a small manufacturer that can be a problem.
They’ve always designed around ensuring good Linux support with their component choices and support of fwupd, but their marketing focused on being repairable and upgradable, unlike companies like System76, who explicitly sell their laptops as Linux laptops. It seems they’ve recently started advertising their Linux support more, possibly due to their partnership to have Ubuntu pre-installed, possibly due to seeing just how many Linux users they already had or possibly due to the number of people switching from Windows to Linux.
Wow, I was surprised that their release video leaned so much into Linux. They said that this is a response to user feedback. That reminded me of when there was a lot of ask for one-handable phone but their sales were too small. So glad to see it has paid off for framework.
Pressures change when you are still niche. Apple and Google sell devices to show ads. Bigger screens, more ads.
I bought a Pixel Fold because when closed it’s a one handed device. I mostly use the inner screen when traveling so I don’t need to bring a tablet
CEO said “it is MacBook for Linux”
Hopefully they keep the repairability, unlike Apple.
It’s built with a lot of off the shelf components and the schematics for the parts that aren’t are open source. So even if they stopped tomorrow, the stuff they’ve already sold will always be repairable.
Finally. There’s barely any other laptop that measures up to the build quality of a Mac.
This includes people that install windows with their own license.
Paying the full 259€ for Windows Pro is just kinda ridiculous, when you can get keys for 30€ from resellers or just for free.
Yay, yet another tech company funding racists and transphobes is doing well :/
Could I have some context on this please?
Read this blog post:
Framework does not sponsor Omarchy. They sponsor Hyprland, which is mentioned in the blog post and Rails World, a conference that DHH is part of.
List of projects sponsored by Framework:
They sent money to DHH, creator of Ruby and gave some lip service to his Omarchy OS. They were defending it with some big tent statements which didn’t go super well with the ones that had a bad opinion of him. DHH has great replacement theory views which is concerning and blogs about it.
Their Arch based Hyprland stuff was overblown though since it was just one weird mod and didn’t reflect the project’s leadership opinions.
They support and fund DHH
The present tense “support” is not true. If unintentional, probably best to edit the reply?
I’d be happy to if I could find any evidence it were true.
That’s not how it works, right? You make the accusation; so you provide the evidence.
The claim implied in the present tense is that their relationship with DHH (insofar as there was one) is still ongoing.
I’m not in the habit of assuming companies that knowingly supported bigots, the benefit of the doubt. If there isn’t a clear, loud and non ambiguous walking back of their clear, loud and unambiguous support, then why would you, I or anyone else assume they have done so?
Because… of the paper trail? Rails World 2026 sponsorships are up and they are not in; they haven’t retweeted Omarchy rices since October; and… I admit, I can’t be sure they haven’t sent him another computer. Which — as you know — concludes the exhaustive trifecta of clear, loud and unambiguous support for bigots.
But you, I, and everyone else knows it’s not about what they do materially. As someone in a related thread actually put in writing, they ought to “denounce, when questioned”.
Meh.
You mean Rails World?
Same guy, but no, I was referring to Omarchy and DHH himself.
One of several open source projects they’re helping fund happens to be run by a person like that. They’re funding is because of the open source project, but some people are very vocal that they’d rather the project not exist at all, and post about it every chance they get.
It’s like how some vegans can’t help but tell you loudly and at every opportunity that they’re vegan. Or some of the more insufferable Linux users in general. Venn diagram is probably a near circle with that linux group actually.
FOSS is a pretty small community in the grand scheme, if you avoided any project run by an objectionable individual, you couldn’t run much of anything.
There’s been plenty of posts about this particular issue all over if you go looking for it. I’d recommend doing your own research on whether you have a problem with it, and not rely on just a couple random commenters here, myself included.
Gardiner Bryant did a video on this: https://video.4d2.org/w/rPMMDnLBA4kVmScBD6w9K5
i dislike how those of us who aren’t okay with this are just supposed to get on board because “big tent.” nazis operate by getting their foot in the door and acting respectable. then after a little bit, suddenly they’ve taken the whole place over. it’s what they do with bars, it’s what they do with music scenes, it’s what they’ve done with past open source projects, it’s what they did with the Reform Party in the united states. i need people to stop making room for nazis as long as they behave themselves
DHH is a an ethno-nationalist and a racist, I’ll grant that.
Care to support the transphobes angle with evidence? Or does it work like an honorary title?
Care to support the transphobes angle with evidence? Or does it work like an honorary title?
Interesting that you chose to be passive aggressive and get your back up at the the idea that he’s transphobic, rather than simply asking for evidence…
In any case, he did an article on his blog celebrating Abigail Shrier and her transphobic Irreversible Damage book. I’m not going to link to his blog, but if you want to find it, it was posted in March 2024
As I remembered, he positively reviewed a different book by her (Bad Therapy), which deals with parenting, and not with trans issues. Looking again (not happily), he does mention Irreversible Damage — but in passing, in an ambivalent way.
I think he never broached that particular topic, but I don’t have the stomach to go over DHH’s writing and check in detail. So you might be right.
Not surprising, the venn diagram of people who would buy a Framework (or even know it exists) and people who would choose an open source OS (or even know they exist) overlaps quite a bit, I imagine.
True. Still, it seems like a significant enough milestone for Linux.
is the hardware different somehow?
The chassis is the only real difference. The boards are all compatible.
The core 300 series Intel board might be exclusive to it for now, but they said it’s compatible with the old chassis so it’s just that they just don’t offer the board separately yet.No wait they have a listing for it so I’m just blind. https://frame.work/products/laptop13pro-mainboard-intel-ultra-3?v=FRANJZ0007Did they ever post sales figures for no OS vs Windows? You can’t assume no OS = Linux, but considering the target demographic I bet 80% of them planned on using Linux on it.
Different than what? You mean between Linux and Windows? No, but you can have them pre-install an OS of your choice.
Same exact computer, they just don’t charge you for the windows license. So it’s a bit cheaper.
As a Linux newb, I’m happy to read this. I hope that my next pc is clean from Microslop from the get go.
I was so disgusted setting up Windows the last time I had to do so. The installation process was just upselling/shoving adware. And now every other update bricks your pc.
And they say Microslop only does bad things lately. What do you call more people switching to Linux to avoid their enshitification, if not a good thing?
It’s like Trump “helping” the oil industry
A lot of people who are aware of Framework are linux users, and the average non-techie user probably doesn’t even know they exist.
Also:
Framework calls the Laptop 13 Pro “A laptop for Linux” in its official marketing, adding that it “is designed and tested for Linux compatibility from the ground up”.
If you market your product to linux users, surely you will attract a lot of linux users.
i had a whinge in the comment section of a recent ArsTechnica article where they reviewed a bunch of Laptops and not one from Framework or Tuxedo haha
I have my eye on a Framework Pro 13 but really don’t need it, i mostly desktop. I don’t Laptop much and just use an old MS Surgace Pro7+ with LMDE installed.
Ars is weirdly pro-windows sometimes , in the comments. I don’t read them as much as I used to.
Just let good news be good news brother. We need more of it in the world right now.
Company when marketing works
Linux is legit pretty easy now comparable to Windows. It’s application preferences and familiarity that keeps people at bay. New to computer user, I don’t think they’d struggle anymore with a gnome or kde linux desktop than with windows. to do the regular stuff people do. Browse the internet. Save their photos/documents in some folders
The grapuh of Linux suitability as a function of user skill is a U. At the bottom of user skill, you’ve got your aunt who needs a Chrome bootloader. Linux is perfect for them, maybe better than Windows.
As you get into the middle, you get into “I just need to use Photoshop” or “I just want to play Valorant”. It’s gotten to where software that doesn’t run on Linux is a deliberate choice, but they’re still out there. Gaming has been easing up in large part due to Valve, so the middle of the U has been rising, but it’s still a big dip.
At the top end you’ve got the computer science types developing all these internet and AI based systems almost all of which run on Linux servers in the back end. Linux dominates literally every computing platform except desktops.
At the bottom of user skill, you’ve got your aunt who needs a Chrome bootloader. Linux is perfect for them, maybe better than Windows.
My school system had thin clients running CentOS growing up and nobody had issues.
Gaming is better on Linux than Windows now. I said what I said.
If you don’t play some of the big multiplayer games, definitely.
And that’s an artificial limitation. The game would work fine if they didn’t go to extra effort to hamper it; so the technical hurdles have been overcome.
Very good analogy, only would say there’s a wide range of creative people who are stuck with windows/mac because of compatibility in their field. They can be quite highly skilled but you can’t escape the industry standards.
Luckily Adobe seems hell-bent on self-destructing, that should help.
Oh yeah, it does help indeed. After I got used to Gimp, I don’t think I’d ever want to open Photoshop. For my personal tasks that’s 100%.
I got so used to PS UI I can’t figure out Gimp. That’s why I use Krita
I would guess literally 99% of people could switch to Linux Mint and be more than happy.
Eh, don’t know about that. Probably a very large portion of people would need word/PowerPoint/etc… For company document compatibility.
For sure a lot of people though could easily get by with LibreOffice.
MS Office works in a browser, and LibreOffice opens Word/Powerpoint files just fine. Been using LibreOffice for years while my coworkers send me files made with MS Office. It’s simply not a blocker.
Having used it in the browser, it barely works in a browser. >50% of functionality is simply missing. Pretty much only the very very basics of typing and formatting.
I also use libreoffice and actually like calc better than excel because python support ia a first class citizen for programming within the spreadsheet in Calc, but AFAIK macro spreadsheets aren’t very cross compatible, but I guess I work in engineering so every company I have worked with or for uses excel macros, probably not representative of other professions.
web office products from microslop have reduced functionality in comparison to desktop variants, which is most obvious with Powerpoint. However, for sleek designs, canva might work better already, just the interoperability of the m365 office suite between multiple users at once keeps it at the front of the market.
Not anymore. Most corporate environments I’ve been in use Office on the web or Google Docs.
I installed Cinnamon the other day, because I remembered it to be easy to use. It is.
But. It looks dated to me. Could really use a facelift. Maybe it’s just me, but in light of modern user interfaces Cinnamon ia functional, but not a looker anymore. Zorion OS and Gnome in general, for exanple, show how it can be done.
Maybe just me…
No, it’s not just you. Mint and Ubuntu get thrown around a lot by people recommending them to new users, and they’re fine, but they are a bit dated.
i quite like the cinnamon theme in mint, I think it looks really nice, especially with a vibrant wallpaper. In my opinion it’s modern but simple and relaxing to look at
I usually push new users to KDE Plasma if they are most used to Windows. It helps that Plasma is also my preference and I know how to help them with it, but yeah. I think it’s most likely to make intuitive sense to Windows users.
In my opinion both Cinnamon and Plasma are the GOAT, but for new users I think Cinnamon is the best, because from my experience it is trouble-free, and very easy to use, especially for Windows users. I have it on Linux Mint that is installed on one of the family laptops (I use Debian with Plasma myself).
I can’t wait to be able to buy the chassis so I can drop my existing 13 mainboard in. That black chassis is sexy.
Heads up if you are replacing the bottom part of the chassis for the pro version you also need to buy the new pro battery, audio adapter and the new pro speakers as the old ones are not compatible
Old battery works in new chassis, but new battery doesn’t work in old chassis.
I’m not sure see this reddit response from a Framework representative https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1ss5zib/comment/ohpkqh1/
Interesting. In the video with the CEO and the product manager, they specifically called out that the old battery is compatible with the new chassis but not the inverse. I wonder what the deal is there.
Can you show me the video and Timestamp evidence of this please. In this Youtube video Timestamp 11:14 they swap out the main-boards, the old main-board is compatible with the new battery, I don’t see them mention that the old battery can be dropped into the new bottom chassis.
I am absolutely aware, since I want the larger battery, better track pad, and speaker setup.
I recently bought a used alienware x14 r1 from a co-worker but if I hadn’t I would have picked up one of these if I knew about the company. The configurability (and upgradability) is very appealing to me.
One of these will be my next laptop I think.
I’m so happy Framework appears to be doing well.
I’ve already replaced the keyboard of my 5yo OG 13 and plan to Frankenstein this thing as long as I can. I secretly hope the mainboard fails so I’m forced to upgrade.
Maybe after RAM prices recover…
Be careful what you wish for… My i7-1260p failed a few months ago.
I will say though, upgrading to an
ai340 is a serious quality of life upgrade in terms of gpu and battery life. Even the NPU is useful now with the latest drivers and kernel modules.
deleted by creator
