Only .ml you can encounter such degenerate brain rot
And both pictures show off firsthand a brutal government dictatorship (in everything but name) that is actively going against the will of its people and stamping down boots on the throats of civilians who dare question or hesitate in the face of their rule.
stamping down boots on the throats of civilians who dare question or hesitate in the face of their rule.
Comrades, you ever notice how when communists write about things like this it reads like a history book and when libs write about things like it it reads like young adult fiction? These mfs think they’re giving a speech in a movie
The protestors in Tian’anmen were a mix of Maoist die-hards upset at Reform and Opening Up, and student protestors backed by the CIA that wanted to liberalize the economy. They didn’t have a consistent goal. Decades later, over 90% of the public in China support their government:
Well they kinda have to or one of those murder vans shows up. A lot of doctors regularly get 100 percent of the vote. That must mean they were beloved dictators?
What on Earth are you talking about?
He is saying a lot of dictators have 100% approval ratings. Misspelled it as doctor.
And the “murder vans” is a reference to execution vans that China uses.
“Yunnan officials authorized the use of execution vans in March 2003 and the province deployed 18 vans in the same year. Zhao Shijie, president of the Yunnan Provincial High Court, said, “The use of lethal injection shows that China’s death penalty system is becoming more civilized and humane”. Amnesty International expressed concern that the use of execution vans could increase the use of executions. The Supreme People’s Court encouraged provinces to adopt execution vans in December 2003.[2]”
There is a lot of activity about the vans being talked about online I am surprised you haven’t heard of this before.
Execution vans aren’t a real thing, though. China does have the death penalty, but not in this comical way, same as PLA suicide helmets. I’ve seen the claim before, but it’s ridiculous to believe them. You can see that the sources in the Wikipedia article don’t even back up what is claimed.
As for the idea that “a lot of dictators have 100% approval ratings,” I don’t see how it matters. Fear of the possibility of something isn’t evidence of it happening.
Your evidence for the claim “Yunnan officials have started using execution vans at the behest of the Supreme People’s Court and Amnesty International is concerned” is…
…the Wikipedia pages for Yunnan, Amnesty International and the Supreme People’s Court.
Did you think people wouldn’t check?
Because if they didn’t they were disappeared for re-education lol
If the Chinese people agree with you, they’re being honest. If the Chinese people disagree with you, they actually secretly agree with you but are too scared to say it.
Bro this is just political Niceguyism. “No dude she totally likes me and hates her boyfriend of 5 years, she’s just too afraid of him to show it. He’s probably abusive.”
No? Harvard studied this, it’s because the government consistently delivers on its ambitious promises in uplifting the lives of working people.
You ever see those workplace review things where it turns out almost everyone at the company is super thrilled with management and wouldn’t change a thing?
Or is it only you that can engage in whataboutism?
The pictures still show two shitty controlling governments bringing the boot down on the throats of their citizens who dare to get in their way or stand up for their “rights”
You have a hypothesis with no backing. Back up your hypothesis, or accept that the citizenry of China support it because it works really well and is getting better all the time. Obviously people would change a lot about China, the major difference is that they expect the government to bring about that change, rather than assuming it won’t.
Further, no, the rioters in Beijing were firebombing PLA vehicles and lynching officers before the PLA was sent in. That’s why hundreds died.
Oh yes the place where they had to install nets in factories to keep people jumping out has to have good ratings. I believe it.
Also no, I did provide sources. China itself doesn’t deny the use of those vans btw they would have to build an insane number of lethal injection rooms otherwise.
All of its been reported on by Reuters.
Here’s one I found immediately about the nets. I can find another one for the vans I’m sure but I’ll probably have that comment removed by mods too while they talk to me about “propaganda” and “censorship”
Ohhhh I see now that it is lemmy. Ml. Hahahahhaha ok yeah makes sense carry on.
Hey, notice how I didn’t lie about how my government is shit and oppresses its people? Its only one side that seems to do that.
People have reported on the execution vans, that’s just fake though. As for the suicide nets, the PRC has a lower suicide rate than the US, and lower than Taiwan, so not sure what your point is there.
Look up the Bonus Army
Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits. -Roderic Day
All the libs in the comments really living up to the quote.
I just finished reading this article today a few hours ago! it felt like such an eerily perfect dissection of liberals it is incredible impressive, it doesn’t reduce their annoyance but it does provide an easier way to deal with it
Link?
My bad for not linking above, here it is: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels
Thanks I’m looking forward to reading later
No problem!
The operative word being smug
Alexa, what is the definition of “irony”?
This is just smug fedora for “no you”
Lemmitors really didn’t sent their best to this thread.
The Amerikkkan randomly calling me racist while being racist was fun if entirely unproductive. Same with the Canadian settler.
If it helps, it was fun to see you owning them
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Also thank you for your hard work in educating everyone. It’s not going to waste, and everyone is learning a lot from your posts. o7
Thank you always great to hear.
Don’t feel that you need to argue with these racists, because it can lead to burn-out quickly. You can always report them and we’ll try to get to it ASAP.
Yeah definitely I always make sure to report any actual racism etc I see but it is fun to blow off steam arguing with/making fun of them at the same time even if it’s entirely unproductive.
Speaking from experience. Still be careful. Even when you think you are blowing off steam, more could be going on then you think. I didnt realize how miserable I had gotten till I had take some time away.
Arguing with randos on the internet can honestly really fuck with a person.
Seconding this, @QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml’s comments have been fantastic lately, and absolutely aren’t going to waste.
Thank you very glad to hear
Yeah ice killed a couple people and we are dealing with that.
The tanks are on their way to kill 2600 unarmed people.
Only a few hundred died, many were armed and murdered PLA officers (kicking off the millitary response), none in the square itself, and the tanks pictured are leaving the square where nobody died.
Only a few hundred died
Dude, you’re saying that as if it’s okay. Hundreds or even thousands die after clearing a protest, how is that ever supposed to place the CCP in a good light?
many were armed and murdered PLA officers (kicking off the millitary response)
Source? Because as far as I can find, the protests were nonviolent until the army was sent in to clear the square. When protestors blocked the army a standoff ensued, which was eventually forcefully broken as per the CCP’s orders. The army was initially sent in because the strikes weren’t ending and the government was not willing to meet the demands.
Because as far as I can find, the protests were nonviolent until the army was sent in to clear the square. When protestors blocked the army a standoff ensued, which was eventually forcefully broken as per the CCP’s orders.
The people in the square left peacefully and without the use of violence. There was no “standoff” in the square. The violence occurred in other neighborhoods, not in the square itself. You can find contemporaneous Western media coverage confirming this, because there were a lot of Western media there at the time. It’s well documented. That’s why we say that the “Tiananmen square massacre” is a myth, because it wasn’t in Tiananmen square massacre and it wasn’t a “massacre.” The military didn’t kettle peaceful protesters into a square and indiscriminately mow them down and crush them under tanks.
I didn’t claim there was? The “standoff” happened on the way to the square, not the square itself, when protestors blocked the PLA from advancing.
Still, hundreds (up to 2600 according to historians) died.
Dude, you’re saying that as if it’s okay. Hundreds or even thousands die after clearing a protest, how is that ever supposed to place the CCP in a good light?
There’s a huge difference between “the CPC ran over 10,000 innocent schoolchildren in Tian’anmen square with tanks” and “riots around Beijing resulted in firebombings of PLA vehicles and lynchings of PLA officers, who then responded with force, resulting in a few hundred deaths in total.”
Here’s a pretty good overview. Two days prior to June 4th, unarmed officers were lynched and firebombed in their vehicles. That’s why the PLA was sent in to begin with, which then cascaded into rioters blocking the PLA’s advance and escalations into killings on both sides. It wasn’t an “even fight,” it was the PLA vs. rioters, but even still it was the rioters that struck first, hard.
That’s a pretty blatant misrepresentation of what happened though. This makes it sound like the rioters started the violence on June 2nd forcing a government response, but that’s not the case. The CCP had already declared martial law on May 20th and had mobilised 30 divisions. The PLA was first sent in at that time, but because the protestors blocked them they couldn’t advance into the city and were ordered to wait on the 24th.
On the 1st of June, two individual reports (the Li Peng report and the MMS report) were published within the Politburo, decrying US influences and advocating direct military action. The CCP decided that day that military action would be used against the protestors.
June 2nd saw an incident with a PAP jeep that inflamed tensions. But I can’t personally find a source claiming firebombings and lynchings at this time. The jeep incident was the trigger that made the students believe military action was at hand though. Only on June 3rd did tensions escalate further, when the PLA advanced into the city and clashed with protestors trying to repel them. This is when I can first find the protestors using molotov cocktails and trying to beat soldiers to death, but at the same time the PLA had opened fire with live, expanding ammunition on the protestors (so they certainly weren’t ‘unarmed’). From there it only escalated further of course. So the protestors were fighting in response to the PLA advancing into the city to break up the protest, not the other way around.
Martial Law is not the same as actual killings, moreover the Liberation News article is well-sourced. As for the killed soldiers, there are pictures of them (NSFL) if you really want to see proof.
Martial law is what mobilized the army, which you falsely claimed happened after protestors started killing unarmed PLA soldiers. I didn’t equivocate it to killings.
And of those killed soldiers, here’s what your own source says: https://xcancel.com/SebasdePeru/status/1533603901508820994#m
Killed for having murdered four protestors. Not so “unarmed” either then. Additionally, those pictures are from June 3rd/4th, which again is after the PLA was ordered to move in and when they started killing protestors if they refused to clear out. Obviously the protestors will attempt to defend themselves against such aggression.
Martial law was declared, and then rioters started killing unarmed PLA officers. This is what prompted the PLA’s response, the violent clashes started after martial law was declared, and rioters started killing officers. Secondly, the source says much of this happened on June 2nd, which backs up the Liberation School article and its sources. Thirdly, the idea that the officer had already murdered 4 people came from the people who killed him, not an outside verified source. In an event where we already know much has been mythologized, this single officer may or may not have been guilty, but was far from the only murdered officer.
A few hundred dead protesters is extremely better than being overthrown by the US, preventing that is actually really cool and does in fact make them look good
The protestors were heavily factionalised. They weren’t universally pro-US. The US was happy to foment dissent, but ultimately the protestors were still socialists and had not insignificant support within the CCP itself.
Cool story
My favorite fed
and we are dealing with that.
By throwing dildos at the concentration camps and dancing?
Well if we did Tianeman square style we would just have a bunch of idiots that supported it and called us terrorists against the government.
You know, exactly how you are doing right now in this comment I replied to about the citizens of China standing up to its oppressive government. Didn’t work out. They lost and Chinese government sympathizers blame the people who stood up for their beliefs.
Seems like if we did do something we are bloodthirsty CIA backed terrorists but if we dont do something we are just pussies throwing dildos eh?
I forget your stance are you for people standing up to the government or against it? Or just against people doing it to the chinese government huh?
I think you mean two million people
I like how this comments sections is ml people fighting with ml people, as well as Chinese nationals fighting with Chinese nationals over what really happend.
i’m not a marxist and most of us aren’t; you should adjust your views to gain a full understanding of what’s happening here.
Cowbee is tankie supreme apparently. All they do is comment Chinese propaganda wherever they can. You won’t be getting through to them unfortunately.
Dang I’m jealous of that title, I wanna be tankie supreme too
Just found out I got a sick as hell nickname, totally undeserved but I’ll take it lol
I saw a screenshot of someone labelling people “tankie” but cowbee is “tankie influencer” lol
I remember that! Also really funny. My haters are my biggest fans it seems, lol
Lessee it!
I talk about communist theory and practice. I think “tankie supreme” is a very funny title, lol.
How can I can reach this fabled “tankie supreme” status? I’m currently stuck at Associate Tankie and finding it difficult to move up
Move to a more widely federated account and just maintain a level head even when social fascists and liberals get really mad
Idk if I can do that. Ragebaiting libs is just too funny
You’ll be surprised, not ragebaiting them seems to make them more mad, because it breaks their worldviews. My haters are incredibly dedicated.
An account existing on Lemmy.ml doesn’t make them a Marxist-Leninist.
I know lol, but it also doesn’t mean anyone who is opposing the meme isn’t one either.
I’ve seen my fair share of educated/intellectual people deny the circumstances of the Bengali genocide for decades until the Pakistani army went lunatic a couple of years ago and confirmed what was previously considered exaggerated fiction.
Tbf though, I’m fairly sure Tankman made it out alive without a scratch, but that overlooks the people who actually died in Tiananmen.
Not that the US is going to fare any better, especially with the empire beginning to crumble.
To be clear, nobody died in Tian’anmen square. The riots happened in various spots throughout Beijing.
“When examining the events of April through June 1989 in Beijing, there is a vast body of evidence including journalistic records, diplomatic cables, eyewitness accounts, and photographic documentation that directly addresses these claims.
The Death Toll and Use of Force
The claim that “no one died” or that only a few hundred died is contradicted by multiple sources. While the Chinese government’s official figure in 1989 was 241 deaths, other estimates are significantly higher:
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The Chinese Red Cross initially estimated 2,600 deaths (later retracted under government pressure).
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The British Ambassador at the time, Alan Donald, cited a source within the Chinese government estimating as many as 10,000 deaths.
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Foreign Journalists on the ground (from the AP, Reuters, and BBC) documented sustained gunfire and the use of armored personnel carriers against civilians on the roads leading to the square, such as Changan Avenue.
“Tank Man” and the Photos
The iconic “Tank Man” photo was captured by several photographers (including Jeff Widener and Charlie Cole) from the Beijing Hotel.
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The Photo is Authentic: It was shot on film and smuggled out of the country. There is also video footage of the encounter.
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The Outcome: The footage shows the man was not run over; the lead tank attempted to maneuver around him before he was pulled away by bystanders. His identity and ultimate fate remain unknown.
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The Direction of the Tanks: The tanks in the photo were actually moving away from Tiananmen Square, having already cleared it, though this does not negate the violence that occurred during the clearing process the night before.
Education and Information in China
The assertion that the incident is “freely taught” in China is demonstrably false.
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Censorship: The “Great Firewall” actively blocks search terms related to “June 4” or “Tiananmen.”
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Curriculum: The event is absent from textbooks, and public commemoration is strictly prohibited. Every year around the anniversary, security in the square is tightened and social media keywords are heavily scrubbed.
Comparative Incidents
While the United States has a history of state violence against protesters (such as the Kent State shootings in 1970, where 4 students were killed), the scale and the subsequent state response differ fundamentally:
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Scale: The casualties in Beijing involved thousands of troops and heavy armor, resulting in hundreds to thousands of deaths.
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Transparency: Incidents like Kent State are openly taught in American schools, are the subject of public records, and were heavily criticized in contemporary media without state-mandated deletion of the historical record.
Summary of Logic
The claim that “200 died and deserved it” while simultaneously claiming “no one died” is a logical contradiction. Furthermore, the claim that the event is “freely taught” is refuted by the very existence of the intensive digital and physical “Blackout” that occurs in China every June. The evidence confirms that a violent military crackdown occurred, resulting in significant loss of life.”
pretty much comports to what i know. the detractors of this can’t even get their stories straight.
can’t even mention it without the servers dropping players like flies.
LLM slop.
Of the few hundred people that died in the riots and fighting, the square was dispersed peacefully. The truth about Tian’anmen is that hundreds of protestors and PLA officers were killed in Beijing that day as the PLA advanced towards the square, but that the square itself was evacuated peacefully, which matches leaked US cables and the CPC’s official stance on what it calls the “June 4th incident”. This is a rejection of the commonly reported story of 10,000 people being killed on the square itself, which originated from a British diplomat’s cable. Said diplomat was later confirmed to have evacuated well before.
Western nations intentionally sensationalize the quantity of deaths and the character of the events. This is also why Western Nations don’t frequently report on the South Korean Gwang-Ju massacre that occured around the same era, where the South Korean millitary murdered thousands of High School and College students protesting against Chun Do-Hwan’s dictatorship. All of what I said is backed up by the Wikipedia page for Tian’anmen Square Protests and Massacre, such as Alan Donald revising his estimate from 10,000 to the low thousands yet BBC continuing to report the 10,000 figure:
In a disputed cable sent in the aftermath of the events at Tiananmen, British Ambassador Alan Donald initially claimed, based on information from a “good friend” in the State Council of China, that a minimum of 10,000 civilians died,[237] claims which were repeated in a speech by Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke,[238] but which is an estimated number much higher than other sources provided.[239][240] After the declassification, former student protest leader Feng Congde pointed out that Donald later revised his estimate to 2,700–3,400 deaths.
The truth is that hundreds of rioters and the PLA died that day, but the square was evacuated peacefully. You believe right-wing propagandist slander.
yes it is AI, and even considering its problems, it is very good at collecting information. besides, it is used here as the stake of which I planted as MY position. so if you s have an issue with its contents then you can take that up with me.
your very first rebuttal is an oxymoron, and can be dismissed with your own account.
your second rebuttal can be argued against the same pen. china is known to minimize their weakness with the same veracity it’s enemies would sensationalize them. that is why several sources, including internal ones are used, and the very fact that china silences communication over it and strives to stop its decimation to this day means they do not get to have a say to anyone with any sense over it.
you saying that sources changed their numbers is detrimental to your argument. which was just a repeat of your first point.
None of my rebuttals are oxymorons, so I’m not sure what you mean by that. Secondly, the fact that China disagrees with the west does not mean that the west is correct. I thoroughly debunked your assertions supporting claims by Alan Donald, who fled the scene before the square was dispersed. You aren’t using rhetoric well, and the LLM nonsense is trained on western information and thus is dominated by the propagandist view.
People are upvoting slop because the slop regurgitated what they want to hear LMAO.
The system prompt: “You are Adrian Zenz”
It may be helpful to provide a source, because this formatting sort of screams LLM
That’s because it is, and that’s the source.
LLM’s are not a source, and i never claimed it was.
just like wikipedia is not a source
You just put the LLM output there, if you mean Alan Donald is your source then he’s a liar as I already showed.
‘source’ as in the source of the comment
that statement is in quotes because it is LLM. which is why i had to specify that i have read it and it tracks with my position on the matter.
if the information is deficient then because i have used it to stake my portion then others can take that up with me because it is the position i hold.
Okay maybe stop posting slop then
careful with “AI” psychosis
the position i hold.
A very brave and important position you have that you need the slop machine to hold it for you and if is not enough others may help.
-
We literally have the video of tankman climbing up the tank and not being flattened, it was even reported back in the day, but people downvoting you can’t be bothered to google that
I think the downvotes are because the post implies that the Chinese did not kill anyone, when hundreds were murdered. What became of tank man is unknown, but it’s clear he wasn’t killed by one of those tanks.
I heard it was millions, and that evil communist xi xingping plans of doing it again and name it the scary communist leap forward after his favorite scary communist dictator mowz dong
It was thousands. Perhaps 10s of thousands. You don’t care, why comment?
why stop there? maybe they were hundreds of thousands, even millions!
Are you being sarcastic?
Because, and anyone correct me if I’m wrong,
most people here know that what happened during the Tianenmen square insurrection was:- Soldiers, mostly the army choir, are ordered to come unarmed and clear the square after months of students protesting in favor of Usonian state-backed exploitative economic teachings.
- 100+ Soldiers killed, mostly the army choir, by insurrectionists at a road adjacent to the square.
- Remaining army choir soldiers lead the protesters away through song from the square.
- 20+ Insurrectionists killed, as armed soldiers arrived and a battle broke out, on the same road.
- 100+ protesters killed, as a chaotic indirect consequence of the earlier insurrectionists’ actions, at a train station miles away.
- Tanks arrive at the square to prevent further escalation.
- Tanks leave the square as situation deescalated and tank man blocks the tanks for a while, then leaves, on the same road again.
These insurrectionists went a lot further than the Usonian Jan 6th protest mostly known as the “Freedom Plaza massacre” where “peaceful protesters” entered the capitol building in order to “stop election fraud” where “perhaps 10s of thousands civilian lives were killed as US security opened fire at these peaceful protesters”, because unlike CIA-backed insurrectionists, these “peaceful protesters” were ordered by their higher ups to leave immediately instead of being encouraged to block the US army from arriving at Capitol Hill or attack the US army for that matter.
I didn’t know i was on a joke sub, I guess.
Do you have a source for your estimate of deaths? 100+ is very ambiguous since it includes any number >100, which seems already beyond contention.
Probably the official CPC figure of 241 killed in total. Most of the serious estimates broadly agree - NSA said 180-500, and the Tiananmen Mothers organisation have identified 198 of the dead.
Since we’re evidently reading the same Wikipedia article, I’ll point out that those are among the lowest estimates on the page and the Beijing hospital record was 478 dead and 920 wounded.
But these are all very different numbers from what was commented.
I think the numbers are a bit off - official Chinese figures were ~20 student protestors, ~20 police and army, and about 200 other protestors were killed.
And Iran, they killed 40 thousand!
Don’t you mean hundreds of thousands, you redfash tankie?
You don’t understand the scope. It was hundreds of thousands. It was hundreds of millions. Evil Chinese communism knows no bounds and will consume all. I will take all your social credit points now for myself, silly American
Bro literally had a conversation with the soldier in the tank.
He said “why are you leaving the square already? Turn this thing around and finish off those colour revolution assholes!”
I keep reading this but I never found the source. Is this actually true?
I was joking. Nobody knows what he said.
But it’s a fact that the video was from June 5th, the day after the violence, and that the tanks were leaving the square.
I heard another version. According to that version, the man was a former soldier who recognized the tank model and wanted to know where was it built and who were inside it.
There is video of him being removed/taken away by others. He certainly was not crushed.
yeah and it s illegal to talk about iut in china cause the gouvernement did nothing wrong and it’s all just western propaganda. Omg you guys are crazy and delusional
It’s so illegal to talk about that it’s mandatory at university to learn about as part of the mandatory “outline of modern Chinese history” at university.
- The cause of socialism with Chinese characteristics continues to advance (1) The occurrence and subsidence of the political turmoil in 1989 The reasons for the turmoil: the emergence of corruption, the dissatisfaction of the people, the party’s mistakes in its work, and the destruction of hostile forces Summary after the turmoil subsides: stability is very important; “one center, two basic points” cannot be shaken; always pay attention to correcting mistakes; Unable to succumb to external pressures
Cool cool do you have what they say about the literal ethnic cleansing of ouïghour ? Or their annexation of Tibet ? Is it also because america is mean ?
It’s all right here itt, if you can be bothered.
Yeah such a great country that non of you live there and you eat what they disclosed as soft power like it was fact. You talk about a country with election like it was the better one and dont even seem to realize the stupidity of your position. And dont get me wrong I’m not here saying usa is perfect but for real yes or no do u have more freedom in china than usa ?
Oh y mean the country they loan money to are happy to say the money giver did nothing wrong. Must be a racy then.
Also of s fucking hilarious cause the photo of the tank man is ban in china while the one about the ice incident was published everywhere in America but yeah sure no difference at all. America bad CCP good
So your hypothesis is that every single muslim nation on earth is so corrupt that China was able to buy their complicity in a genocide? How do you explain the US completely failing to do the same despite having more money?
Euh idk mb the non stop increase of war the us fough there ?
It s well documented. You are delusional for thinking a gouvernement that declare and displace troop from the fucking military for a protest was just to appease the situation
Lol. Lmao, even. You’ve shared debunked propaganda that doesn’t cite any proper sources. I’ll refer you to Dessalines’s thread about what actually happened in Tiananmen.
Though while we’re here, let’s address Tibet, shall we?
First, the people of Tibet lived as serfs doing forced labor for the Dalai Lama and other elites. https://www.historicly.net/p/tibet-china-and-the-violent-reaction https://redsails.org/friendly-feudalism/
In the second one, they also go further into the history and abuse serfs, peasants, and lower-class monks endured, and has the following:
Whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese after 1959, they did abolish slavery and the Tibetan serfdom system of unpaid labor. They eliminated the many crushing taxes, started work projects, and greatly reduced unemployment and beggary. They established secular schools, thereby breaking the educational monopoly of the monasteries. And they constructed running water and electrical systems in Lhasa.
Heinrich Harrer (later revealed to have been a sergeant in Hitler’s SS) wrote a bestseller about his experiences in Tibet that was made into a popular Hollywood movie. He reported that the Tibetans who resisted the Chinese “were predominantly nobles, semi-nobles and lamas; they were punished by being made to perform the lowliest tasks, such as laboring on roads and bridges. They were further humiliated by being made to clean up the city before the tourists arrived.” They also had to live in a camp originally reserved for beggars and vagrants — all of which Harrer treats as sure evidence of the dreadful nature of the Chinese occupation.
The PRC liberated Tibet, abolished slavery and serfdom, and built modern infrastructure. Tibetans are far better off now than they were then. Those who resisted this were nobles and reactionaries.
After he was overthrown, the Dalai Lama also received money from the CIA to train guerillas. https://web.archive.org/web/20251104164452/https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/02/world/world-news-briefs-dalai-lama-group-says-it-got-money-from-cia.html
A source without Adrian Zenz to be more precise.
I’ve never understood why some leftists wanna suck the dick of a superpower authoritarian state. That’s not leftism, you’re just a class traitor who defends the ruling class of a place you don’t even live in. Get some perspective, ffs…
No need to bring in misogyny/homophobia. The reason socialists support socialist countries is pretty self-evident, we defend the ruling class in China because the ruling class in China is the working class.
authoritarian state
Authoritarian is a meaningless pejorative used by the unintelligent and uneducated to avoid class analysis. Every state exercises coercion. The question is which class benefits. China’s legal system has demonstrably reduced corruption and constrained capital’s excesses in ways other (Western) systems have not. If your ideal “leftism” cannot account for who holds power and how law serves that power, then your ideal is simply fantasy.
That’s not leftism, you’re just a class traitor who defends the ruling class of a place you don’t even live in.
There’s not one Chinese person here, everyone is American/European white trash in lemmy.
Wtf is this?
Remember who didn’t stop for you
Oddly this isn’t what officers mean when they say ‘weaponizing a vehicle’.
Cop car was stopped. People started jumping onto the car or getting in front of it, and even on top of the hood. Blocking its way.
Cop car tried to move a bit a couple of times, and people would not get out of the way. That headline is of course leaving context out.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/embed/xzx1OAVFCm0?t=10
Honeslty, what do people realistically think it would happen if you jumped in front of a car? And then start attacking the car. Do you expect for the drivers to just wait until they start breaking windows? I am not American, and for the life of me, I do not understand the lack of logic here and watching the video VS the headline is like two different stories are being told all based on political bias.
surprised pikachu.JPEG
It’s okay for the bad person to do the bad thing because what are you stupid? If you’re a victim it’s your fault! You can’t just ignore all the context. You’re supposed to ignore all the context EXCEPT the part where they weren’t nice to the bad person!
Literally what tankman did to a tank and still he walked away. Imagine attacking an evil seeseepee tank that is monitoring every citizen individually in case they insult putin or whatever, climbing on top of it and everything and you just, walk away after??
I love whenever someone posts the “tank man” photo because the liberals always reveal themselves like roaches scattering across the room when a lightswitch is turned on. Mod ban hammer squish them all plz and thank you.
I love your portfolio.
aww, you’re sweet, thank you.
You are so very welcome. Thank you for sharing it with us!
Lol bold af to post this on ml.
To be clear this was also before the whole Uyghur thing!
I’m curious what do you think the ‘Uyghur thing’ is.
I gotta admit I chuckled a bit when I saw where this was posted…
Why?
I guess the downvotes know exactly why ^^
Well let’s say tanks are pictured…
There are 457 upvotes.and 93 downvotes at the time of writing. Tanks being pictured isn’t ironic at all, considering this meme is pro-China and anti-US.
Well it’s tankies vs nazis, both authoritarian. I don’t think there’s good guys pictured… Yet the side that drives war tanks are hinted to be good guys… And well we are on lemmy.ml
Hell yeah dude, you’re 12
Ah you’re also not missing in the party. Nah I’m not, I’m just realistic…
Go back to reddit
I mean on the other hand Marx was anarchist (though with the exception to have authoritarianism as means to change the system, which I don’t agree with, because it’s also unrealistic to assume that people in charge just throw away their power).
I think having Authoritarianism no matter how, just gravitates towards people that should definitely be not in charge. We see this everywhere. Power corrupts and dehumanizes.
Marx was the polar opposite of an anarchist in many ways. Marx supported collectivization into one unified system, anarchists support communalization into countless decentrally linked systems. Marx supported dialectical and historical materialism, anarchists often fall into idealist and subjectivist trappings. Marx developed scientific socialism, while anarchism is largely utopian. Anarchists can be good comrades, but Marx was not an anarchist.
Power is not a supernatural corrupting force, this too is an idealist argument.
Liberalism, famously not “authoritarian” despite sending riot cops to beat down schoolkids for being against Palestinian genocide
You really think those are “liberalists”?!
Why do you guys have such a black/white view of the world? There’s more room than just authoritarians, and authoritarianism and liberalism are somewhat antagonists anyways.
Lol. “Why are you so black and white? Don’t you know that there’s liberalism(the good guys) and everyone else is authoritarian(bad guys)!”
It’s good for workers to have state authority, rather than capitalists. Both have authority, but communists use it to uplift the people and defeat the Nazis.
Fucking lol
Any american will tell you our government is trash and oppressive. And yet when we point out that so is Chinas government you get pure unadulterated propaganda like this shit. And then call us brainwashed.
Lol
Remind me again about how installing suicide nets and making workers sign waivers saying if they kill themselves it isn’t the factories fault is “workers having state authority”
I bet I’ll just get banned though huh. A lot easier than actually using facts.
Go back to reddit
“My government is trash and oppressive yet I believe everything they say about the PRC”
China has a lower suicide rate than Switzerland, the UK, the US, Taiwan, etc. Suicide nets exist, but suicide isn’t nearly as widespread as you make it out to be.
I have yet to see an authoritarian “state” that I consider communist (and that just doesn’t give it a bad name and fuel for western propaganda) that “uplifts the people” (and doesn’t repress them)…
It’s true though, that it’s probably better than capitalistic states (mostly, because all the systems we have are a mixture of all kinds of ideologies), I think China as example certainly does a better job than the USA at this point (various metrics, like addiction, mental/physical health etc. backs this as well).
Non the less, communism in its core is anti-authoritarism.
Oh no, how do I tell the millions of Chinese communists that you, the main character of life who clearly hasn’t read enough Marx, don’t consider them to be communist
There have been many socialist states, both past and present. Examples include the PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, DPRK, Laos, and the former USSR. In all of these countries, life expectancy, literacy rates, economic democratization, and more have skyrocketed. Life expectancies in the USSR and PRC doubled. Using only the USSR as an example, as it’s the classic one pointed to as “authoritarian,” it’s clear that analyzing the facts at hand points to tremendous success.
The USSR had steady and consistent economic growth, and provided free, high quality education and healthcare, full employment, cheap or free housing, and fantastic infrastructure and city planning that still lasts to this day despite capitalism neglecting it. This rapid development resulted in dramatic democratization of society, reduced disparity, doubling of life expectancy, tripling of functional literacy rates to 99.9%, and much more. Living in the 1930s famine would not have been good, but it was the last major famine outside of wartime because the soviets ended famine in their countries.
Literacy rates, societal guarantees in the 1936 constitution, reports on the healthcare system over time, and more are good sources for these claims.
The USSR brought dramatic democratization to society. First-hand accounts from Statesian journalist Anna Louise Strong in her book This Soviet World describe soviet elections and factory councils in action. Statesian Pat Sloan even wrote Soviet Democracy to describe in detail the system the soviets had built for curious Statesians to read about, and today we have Professor Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance to reference.
When it comes to social progressivism, the soviet union was among the best out of their peers, so instead we must look at who was actually repressed outside of the norm. In the USSR, it was the capitalist class, the kulaks, the fascists who were repressed. This is out of necessity for any socialist state. When it comes to working class freedoms, however, the soviet union represented a dramatic expansion. Soviet progressivism was documented quite well in Albert Syzmanski’s Human Rights in the Soviet Union.
The truth, when judged based on historical evidence and contextualization, is that socialism was the best thing to happen to Russia in the last few centuries, and its absence has been devastating.
Death rates spiked:
And wealth disparity skyrocketed alongside the newly impoverished majority:
Capitalism brought with it skyrocketing poverty rates, drug abuse, prostitution, homelessness, crime rates, and lowered life expectancy. An estimated 7 million people died due to the dissolution of socialism and reintroduction of capitalism, and the large majority of post-soviet citizens regret its fall. A return to socialism is the only path forward for the post-soviet countries.
When you look at the US Empire and western Europe as having higher quality of life than the USSR, you are looking at the benefits of imperialism, colonialism, and neocolonialism and wishing the USSR also practiced this, instead of helping liberate colonies and the global south. Russia in particular was a semi-feudal backwater in 1917, and made it to space 5 decades later. The USSR was not the picture of wealth, but was for its time the picture of development and rapid progress.
It isn’t the socialist countries giving western countries ammo for propaganda, it’s just western propagandists twisting them. Communism is pro-worker authority, not against authority in general, as it’s through worker-authority that class and the state can be abolished down the line alone.
