- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
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Cars can easily long distances in a short period of timeinn most weather conditions comfortably, allowing the freedom of movement even if it isn’t done daily. It is a symbol of long distance freedom on weekends and holidays, not daily commuting.
goes as far and as fast as you can
And cars go much further and faster than I can
I prefer to call it “freedom”. Nowadays your vehicle spies on you and you’re tracked everywhere you go and anaylized.
Not mine, lol, the benefits of driving an 18-year-old car I guess.
These are great points and suddenly I feel like the all weather point is showing a nonexistant / totally under served market.
A quick google search shows even quadricycles tend to be un covered. Man, this feels like a real business opportunity.
Ofc, cause #Murica, I’ll bet I’m the one in a million people who’d want a covered bicycle / quadicycle (vs trying to get a golf cart) for local mobility.
Do they not have coats where you live?
Yeah, but I grew up in a part of the world too hot year round to wear them, so as an adult, most jackets are just really uncomfortable for me. Doubly so for water proof materials that don’t breathe.
The material doesn’t need to breathe. Use a poncho type of thing instead.
I bike everyday to work and back. Ponchos suuuuuck to ride in. Theyre constantly getting into your chain or wheel. It’s hard to do a shoulder check because you’ll get poncho in the eyes. And the wind getting in will make it come off your arms and head. Plus they’re uncomfortable with helmets and biking gloves.
Personally, I just use a rain jacket plus accept the fact that I’ll get wet sometimes. I already carry a towel in my rear rack for sweat so it’s not that big a deal as long as I get to my destination.
Mine hasn’t caused any issues. It has velcro straps that clip it to my legs and it’s designed for cycling. I do think I probably could have got the larger size though.
Not sure, bit more airflow around my arms and upper chest could be nice.
Probably because the cover is extra weight and cumbersome rigging for all of the time you don’t need it. Rain gear works well enough in a pinch.
Yeah, I’m sure for my interests, I could strap a lock box to the bike with all weather gear (so that I don’t have to think about bringing it with me all the time).
Still, a neat idea. I’d love the vibes of being a biking Fred Flintstone.
Bikes have that “start riding wherever, feel the wind in your air, hop off wherever and lock wherever” freedom.
Can only be safely used in good weather.
Collisions will, in fact, fuck you up bad.
Limited cargo space.
Single occupancy.Scandinavia and the Netherlands disagree on all but one of those points
Not disability friendly.
Limited Range.
Makes you all sweaty before arriving at your destination.
Hills.
Infrastructure not set up to store them anywhere.
Easily and frequently stolen.
Not in fact super cheap, for a decent one.
Requires new infrastructure because everything is built around cars and is literally not safe to use around cars.
They’re exceptionally disability friendly and many age specifically adapted for people with disabilities. E-tricycles are used a lot for this purpose. You see them a lot in some countries.
E-bikes address the sweatiness and hills issue. But even without electric assistance, people in Germany and Austria have managed.
It doesn’t always require new infrastructure to be built. Ideally infrastructure for cars is repurposed for walking and cycling. This is something that needs to be done anyway because lots of people don’t drive, causing transport poverty.
My bike was $270 second hand and is awesome.
The range issue is fair. Consequence of designing exclusively for cars. Then again, no need to cycle every journey. Just the short journeys already helps a lot. Where I live most car journeys are under 5 miles.
For range, there is public transit, and it’s a good option overall for when bike rides are not feasible!
Sadly it’s more theoretical than an actual option in many places.
Where I live (UK, not London) short distances can be done by bike or public transport. Although public transport isn’t great. For medium distance, public transport is often non-existent. For long distance, public transport works well and you might be able to take your bike on the train too.
I’d rather cycle through the rain than pay an extortionate amount for a bus ticket.
Roads would be great infrastructure for bikes if we just banned cars from them. :)
- Try a rain poncho
- Two bikes colliding may fuck one up, but death is VERY unlikely
- Electric cargo bike
- Electric cargo bike
Most arguments against bikes are from people who never even tried to address the issues. It’s like “I’ve seen a BMX and that’s ALL there is!”
Most bike fatalities are car related, though bike on bike deaths do exist.
I was not thinking about discomfort due to rain (wearing glasses does suck in the rain) but slippery conditions. I have taken a bad spill off my bike twice and both times were because of rain.
I guess I don’t count e-bikes as bikes. That is a bad mind set on my part.
Riding a bike in the rain sucks floppy donkey dong. Poncho or not. I’ve done both. A lot. Car any day over it.
While I get there are plenty of reasons to ride a bike and many arguments against it are overblown, pretending that a bike always has a solution or that that solution is always preferred is as bad as the inverse argument.
I’m not entirely sure that’s what you are actually suggesting(rather I think you’re just positing potential solutions), it just leans that way.
There’s weeks where rain a couple of days, but them months were there’s no rain at all. O would take my bike everytime because I prefer to use the rain clothes 4 hours of a year that spend an entire week of the year stuck in traffic.
Riding bike in the rain turned out to be one of my favorite things when I figured out how to not suck at it. Ponchos are no good. Waterproof coats and pants make all the difference.
If anything is a challenge, it’s high winds and places with harsh winters. What we really need is more economical enclosed vehicles that bridge the gap between bikes and cars.
Any waterproof thing I wore, also trapped heat underneath and I’d be so sweaty by the time I arrived anywhere that there was little point to me wearing the waterproof garment in the first place.
High winds and snow/ice are really troublesome, but I always appreciated cold (even bitter cold) weather since I’d sweat less.
Can only be safely used in good weather.
Just like cars?
Collisions will, in fact, fuck you up bad.
As bad as cars?
Limited cargo space.
Not as limited as you think.
Single occupancy.
Not necessarily.
Just like cars?
No, cars can easily be used in much worse weather than bikes.
As bad as cars?
Worse. It may sound surprising, but in a traffic accident being inside a car protects you more than just having a helmet.
Not as limited as you think.
I wonder if that thing is even legal to drive.
You sound like somebody who hasn’t touched a bike since childhood, if ever.
No, cars can easily be used in much worse weather than bikes.
But should you? Driving even just in rain makes your car significantly more dangerous, especially if you’re dumb enough to drive at high speeds. Besides, I’ve biked in some pretty extreme weather, including a blizzard that constantly blasted ice at me so much I had to keep my hand in front of my face the whole time. Was I in danger? Probably, but there’s still not actually that much difference between weather that bicyclists should avoid, and weather that motorists should avoid.
The biggest difference being how much danger the latter poses to others in addition to the driver.
Worse. It may sound surprising, but in a traffic accident being inside a car protects you more than just having a helmet.
You’re so well protected in your little bubble… unless your little shelter is smaller than the monstrous trucks that are on the roads now days. Now you’re pretty much in the same boat as the bicyclist, there’s always a bigger fish. So I guess by your logic we should actually all be driving the largest trucks possible.
And that touches on the crux of the problem. Your overly sheltered lifestyle disconnects you from realities right in front of your face. See in these crash scenarios the bicyclist is likely thinking as much about the safety of who they might be crashing into, as well as their own safety. Usually, yeah yeah assholes are everywhere, but the fact is the bicyclist is significantly less of a danger to both themselves and others.
Motorists are as dissonant as meat eaters. Any leap of logic to avoid confronting that you are part of the fucking problem.
I wonder if that thing is even legal to drive.
The pic I just posted is of a model that likely doesn’t even have a motor in it. Of course it’s legal to drive. Don’t even need a license.
Suppose that I decide to pack up the cat and everything I own and just disappear one day?
I can’t do that with a bike.
Then you own too much shit
Because cars make a shit load of money for the
economythe rich people.the only bikes that make any money to sell are the ones that are for rich people.
the profit on a $500 bike is like 200 bucks, the profit on a $15,000 bike, is like $10,000
I bet it’s closer to like 13k profit, depends on how you do the math on the supply chain
Yeah but how many more people are buying the £500 bikes?
Going by the stock of bikes in Halfords, almost no one is buying the 15k bikes. Very few bikes are not a 3 figure price tag.
not as many as you’d think. it also depends on the demographics of your city. in my city people buy 10K bikes like they are $100 bikes, because they have the money.
True, I could see it being a thing in parts of London
Cycle2work scheme has, I think, massively inflated the prices. Not in a way where same shit costs more, but truly cheap bikes are just not really a thing anymore.
truly cheap bikes were never a thing, unless you are talking wal-mart bikes. and those aren’t really bikes, they are disposable toys.
Decathlon is offering real cheap contenders :D Their line of city bikes is SUPER affordable and already comes with every needed accessories
Idk I typically buy mine from anarchist bike co-ops and they’re pretty cheap
If I rode a bike near my home I would be injured or killed within a few weeks if not day one.
then your issue is with your city’s shit infrastructure, not with bikes as a mode of transportation.
Totally. I’ve lived lots of other places including the Netherlands. But bikes are not an option for me.
I used to live in a town in the US where I could bike across a college campus to get to work. That was heaven.
Bikes are awesome. Bike infrastructure helps wheelchair users and pullcart users as well.
doesn’t protect from zombies
Zombies can magically disintegrate cars at any range, as long as they have line of sight. This means that fleeing from a Zombie in a car is foolish. However, this ability can be used against Zombies. By building your base in such a way that one needs to climb over a car, such as by using a car as a bridge over a moat, you have build a base which will trick 80% of Zombies into making it inaccessible. Any respectable horde is virtually guaranteed to have at least one Zombie who will fall for it.
Obviously, since 5% of Zombies are capable siege engineers, you can’t fully rely on any sort of static defense to keep a Zombie horde away.
When killing a Zombie, keep in mind that the plant animating them can jury rig most injuries. Hence, zombies should ideally be incinerated, but if that is unavailable covering them will prevent sunlight from hitting the plants, and thus the plant won’t be able to fix the Zombie to a point where it can move again. The Zombie plant is immune to all commercially available herbicides. Military herbicide HC73 is the most efficient. Care must be taken before deployment of HC73, as the herbicide will render land infertile for 2 to 5 decades.
Zombies are significantly impaired at night, as key parts of their metabolism rely on photosynthesis. Keep in mind that sunlight deprivation is insufficient to kill a Zombie, no matter how long it is deprived of sunlight.
You can’t fully rely on any sort of static defense to keep a Zombie horde away
Hold my beer
IMO there should be a lot more bikes in Zombie movies / books, or anything else post-apocalyptic.
If civilization collapses, you’re not going to be able to get gas for your internal combustion engine. Gas has a pretty short shelf life, so even if you stocked up you’d be running out soon. If you have something electric you’re better off, but charging those to full without a working grid will take multiple days on home solar panels.
Chances are the streets will also be filled with vehicles. A big vehicle like a car is going to have trouble getting through. A bike will squeeze through much smaller gaps. And, if necessary you can lift it up and over something.
It is cool and all, but I don’t wanna haul a crap load of tools on a bike
Cargo bikes are a thing!
No cargo bike can support 500lbs dude. A single pro toolbox worth of tools is well like 200lbs. Most people have 3-5 of those boxes.
Yeah, you can move a house via cargo bike, but normal people hire movers. Poor bike weirdos in their 20s do it via bike as a political statement. every bike weirdo I know now hires movers because they got older and have money now. They also own cars and drive them most of the time…
it’s almost as if once they got money to afford a car being a zealout about bike-only lifestyle disappeared from their mind…
Let’s be real here: cars are more convenient for a lot of things, especially when proper bike infrastructure is still lacking. That’s why people tend to move in that direction.
However, keeping at it is not sustainable and makes life worse in the long run. Adopting sustainable strategies comes with some pain points, but it’s simply the only way forward.
Ok, slap a motor in that thing. I see washing machines+dryer pretty frequently.
this is a motorcycle with extra steps or a motorized bicycle
How many tools are we talking about here? Have you tried?
I love bikes, and don’t own a car. But, this is misleading.
Bikes are terrible off road where there are no paths. They’re decent if there’s a well worn path, as long as there are no exposed roots or big rocks, but if the path isn’t well maintained walking is probably better.
Where bikes excel is very flat surfaces. The modern world is filled with those. The problem is that in most places the assumption is that those flat surfaces belong to either cars or pedestrians. Theoretically, in many places, bikes are allowed in the same places as cars most of the time. But, if a biker shares the space with cars, it’s just a matter of time before that biker collides with a car. When that happens, the person in the car won’t be injured. The biker may be dead.
When a driver hits a car, normally the driver gets off easy. Even if there’s evidence of malicious intent, it’s almost never treated as manslaughter or even murder. If there’s no evidence of malice, it’s treated as an “oopsie daisy” and there’s virtually no chance that the driver will spend any time in jail or prison.
Finally, bikes aren’t treated as important property that the law should protect the way that cars are. Even in places like Amsterdam where biking is one of the most common ways to get around, the canals are filled with bikes that have been stolen and thrown in. If you steal a car and get caught, you’re in serious trouble. If you steal a bike, the odds of getting caught are tiny, and if it happens it’s not treated as a very serious issue.
Sure, laws can be changed. But, drivers tend to be older and richer. The older they are, the more dependent they are on their cars. So, they almost always manage to defeat any potential changes to the law.
Bikes do give you a lot of freedom, but in a world designed around cars first, it’s not as much freedom as you get with a car. Maybe in 50 years it will be different. I hope so.
The problem is banks own the majority of cars. Stealing a car is stealing a banks property. The banks have enough money to get pissy about this and make the government do something.
If cars didn’t require loans and had entire major industries profiting off them then it’s likely cars would be treated like bikes.
Theoretically, in many places, bikes are allowed in the same places as cars most of the time. But, if a biker shares the space with cars, it’s just a matter of time before that biker collides with a car. When that happens, the person in the car won’t be injured. The biker may be dead.
Assuming every cyclist who shares the road will eventually have an accident involving a car is kinda fatalist IMHO, but I guess it depends on where you are … where I live, bicycles on the road are very common, both in the city and outside.
My typical ways in the city involve a multilane road that doesn’t have a bike path yet, and while it can be stressful I don’t consider it overly dangerous.
Road cycling is a common pastime here so having bicycles on the country roads is expected, and motorists are required to maintain a certain distance (1.5m), as indicated by many roadsigns along popular roads. They typically comply.
So, yeah, I don’t think it’s a given and very much the results of cultural attitudes more than anything …
Hills. If you live near hills bikes don’t work too well at least not as transportation, they work more as exercise equipment then.
I’ve actually got an electric bike and it does solve the hills problem but then it has the it weighs as much as a baby elephant problem. So it’s still a pain if you have to lug it on and off the train.
You are seriously underestimating baby elephants :D
Distance. Carrying capacity Speed
Anon missed the biggest sin of all:
Monetizable, but only at two or three orders of magnitude less than automobiles.
TL;DR: “He’s cheating because he’s not spending as much as I am.”
They’re cheaper in every conceivable way than cars, and that’s why the worst people out there hate them. Once you see the systems in place to equate personal validity and social values with what wealth may be extracted, it’s impossible to look back. Bikes are effectively a form of protest by way of scaling back one’s economic interaction, because of this.
yeah, but once you hang out with other bike people they will just you on the cost of your bike and your ‘gear’ instead of the cost of your car.
and if your bike is fancier than theirs, you’re a rich douche, and if your bike is less money than theirs, you’re a poor piece of shit. and if your bike is just like theirs, you are a practical and sensible person just like them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZK8Z8hulFg
it’s the same for any interest
I have never seen people do this. All I’ve ever seen is that those who spend extravagantly on bikes and gear do so because they are literally professional athletes. For everyone else, the closest to what you’re talking about is just basic advise to spend only a little bit more on an entry-level bike because the so-called “department store” bikes tend to be notorious for being cheaply made and poorly assembled, requiring repairs in a very short amount of time. But even those bikes are perfectly fine if you’re okay with having to spend additional money in the near future to replace problematic components, and either hire someone to fix it or learn how to do your own repairs.
wow cool. i was on a bike ride last night with 5 middle ages dudes who are average chubby bozos and they all had 10-20K bikes, and kept asking me if I was ‘doing ok’ because my bike is only worth 1K. because how could anyone possible ride a bike that isn’t uci level?
i have met way more people with very expensive pro level stuff than I do people without, but I live in a very rich city where people buy Rivians R1s and never drive them as a leftist eco crunchy flex. maybe you live in a poor place, where I live folks are buying 10K bikes every other year because they don’t want to be caught on an ‘old bike’ w/o all the latest and greatest upgrades and my bikes are ‘retro’ because they are more than 5 years old and people are ‘concerned’ for me because they are so old and I must be financially struggling.
Yeah that probably does explain it, I don’t hang out with rich assholes. People like that may as well be living on another planet as far as I’m concerned.
It’s almost like gentrification makes everything more insufferable for everyone.
Sounds like you’ve encountered MAMILs in the wild.
Middle Aged Men In Lycra.
I like to point out that a 10k bike is really just a cheaper mid-life crisis than a sports car, tends to shut down the conversation one way or another pretty quick.
No. These are folks who have been riding since they were teenagers and got 10K bikes back then too and their first car was a Lexus, etc.
They are just rich people. Lots and lots of people, are rich. Mid-life crisis for these folks is buying a house in Hawaii for 5 million.
Wealth doesn’t necessarily exclude them from being MAMILs, but from what you’ve described, it seems there are plenty of other reasons to ride solo.
Because people were told so in an ad.
Mostly true but I find the price is pretty high nowadays.
You don’t need a carbon road bike to cycle to the supermarket, you’re not racing in the tour de france.
Yeah well even basic bitch bikes go from 300-1000 euros. Even second hand is 175 cheapest. And then you have a shitty one.
You can absolutely find 2nd hand bikes for less 175. One search of marktplaats for an omafiets and there are plenty for less than 90 euros. Sure it’ll be a real nugget but with 30 euros of parts, youtube and some elbow grease it will last for years. They probably even will without fixing it up first
Almost as if cost of living has increased, but wages have not…
Yeah that’s my point. We don’t exactly live in a “oh it’s stolen, oh well” time.
Paint it with extra rust and stick some exposed wires on it for +15 to theft resistance.
but wages have not…
This makes me appreciate the UK minimum wage rising faster than inflation over the past several years.
A weeks work at minimum wage will get you a pretty decent bike. Not a carbon race bike, but a good bike for general riding.
What the hell? That’s crazy. My current bike was 20€, needed a bit of fixing. Bought it when my 30€ one was stolen. Both have served fine for my 2km daily commute, and occasional ~10km trip to the city centre.
Could probably buy a stolen one for that money yeah, or someone that really needs to get rid of their bike to make space. But at an actual refurbished second hand bike goes for those prices after a quick google search.
I think we have different definitions of shitty bike. I could go to Kmart and buy a $120 AUD (€73) brand new bike. It has 2 wheels, pedals, a handlebar. Sometimes they have bells. You can even make it go forwards if you try hard enough.
If I go to Gumtree (our classifieds app), there’s literally free bikes or ones for* as low as $20:
Mountain Bike. In working condition, has back brakes and rides straight. The gear shifter doesn’t work, but just leave it the desired gear.
If I go to an actual “bike shop”, their cheapest bike is $400 AUD (€243), which is close to your listing.
Yeah well I live in the Netherlands
Man, no wonder they’re expensive, Dutch bicycles are world famous for quality commuting. I really wanted one and tried to buy one q few years ago but got scammed haha.
I bought my last two bikes for $20 and $50 at the goodwill respectively
