I use fish as my shell because it’s the easiest to work with, but I basically always script with sh or sometimes bash
#computerjoke lol
friend brought me some seashells
i am using ZSH cause Fish is not POSIX compliant,which made it annoying to run scripts without rewriting them.
When is this a problem? What scripts don’t use a shebang and/or why does using
shcall fish instead of bash or dash?I have a mild dislike of fish because a few substitutions are different enough that my muscle memory isn’t there. (But I also haven’t put in serious effort to learn them.)
I think they don’t use shebang
Have you run into a specific problem or is this just a hypothetical you’re worried about. I see this a lot but haven’t ever actually run into it being a concern. If you run a script with
from a Fish shell, it won’t use Fish, it will use whatever you haveshpointing to. (Which shouldn’t be Fish, it’s usually bash or dash.)I ran into issues on fish,i don’t remember what they are but I think it’s no shebang
#!/bin/sh
Hope this helps
how about if its not in a sh file,its common for scripts to use sh or bash instead. but am just gonna stick to ZSH anyways
The file extension doesn’t matter much on Linux. If you’ve got a shebang at the top, the shell you’re running from will invoke the correct shell according to the shebang.
In some situations, you may want to use something like
bash <your-script>, but that would only be when you’ve got a script that doesn’t have a shebang, but not having one is bad practice and you really should be using them. Fish isn’t the only non-POSIX shell you’re going to encounter on a Linux system. Python, Perl, and probably some others will be there, and using a shebang ensures no shenanigans. So whether or not you use Fish, you should always use shebangs.Linux doesn’t generally use extensions to decide what shell to use, so it doesn’t matter if it’s an sh file or not.
If it uses bash of course you can substitute #!/bin/bash
And of course you can use whatever shell you want, just saying that POSIX-compliance is not really relevant since the script can specify what shell it needs.
bash:
Jesus Christ! Its json Bourne Again!
When I installed freeBSD for the first time, I was so confused when !! didn’t work.
No such thing as a good shell… (I just want something that’s both posix-compatible and good)
That’s a paradox. POSIX shells are all bad because POSIX demands bad syntax.
You can have pain word strings without also having weird “variables auto-explode into words” bullshit.
That’s why I use nushell. It has lists. You do
cmd ...$some_listto call a command on arguments from a list.I’m ok with that part, I’m talking more performance and convenience. POSIX isn’t the most amazing but it’s ok. And whether I like it or not, I’ll have to use a posix-compatible shell if I want to run most scripts.
I luckily don’t have to modify scripts these days so I’ll just use bash to run them if there’s no better alternative around. And usually it is, few things are only available as bespoke shell script
telnet
⚰️
do tcsh
(that’s the actual current maintainer of tcsh and the linux file command lol)
Sic. I’ve never even tried anything other than bash, but this looks cool!
Similarly ksh
I was looking for a mention of csh! Senior sysadmin at $DAYJOB uses it still.
Pretty much the whole semiconductor engineering industry is using it. We’ll actually tcsh but csh
Heh. Good stuff.
More! ;D I want to see all the shells, characterised so.
… Fish [over[1]]user here. Ooh, good burn. LOL.
[1: Not just user. Overuser. I do most of my scripting in fish. Think that’s not overuse yet? … I even wrote my own text editor in fish.]
That’s what they looked like???
I remember making that joke on Lemmy and someone calling me immature lol.
I’m immature then with you!
A.D.I.D.A.S with a Freak on a Leash
The creator of kornshell thought it was funny http://kornshell.com/fun/
alias Da-boom-da-da-mmm-dum-na-ee-ma="sudo rm -rf /"(I don’t think it actually works this way in ksh but I already spent 10 minutes trying to figure out the command to get root privileges in ksh and that’s already too much time for this dumb joke.)
Works in ksh93 and mksh. Probably oksh and posh, too.
I’ve never understood the need for
fish. The shell experience is basically the same aszsh, and although it’s much more pleasant to script for, you miss out on compatibility with POSIX-compliant snippets, and besides, if you’re writing long and complicated scripts that need anything more than a handful of scalar variables you should probably be using Python (or Perl if you’re an old-school masochist).i use zsh and i’ve been recently told by a friend that i look like this exact guy
imo fish is the best out of the box for me, but I just use bash cause its everywhere
I’m not learning shit that can’t run on everything.
Source : I got a fistfull of salesforce certs in order to toe the line in my previous job, and I am currently looking for work.
Yeah, that’s where this meme fails. BASH is the default and has been for decades. Most people are not Gigachad.
I’ll accept FISH as being for babies, Zsh as being for Emo types or extra nerdy people. SH being for white beards makes sense.
BASH is:
I used a macbook for work for a while with zsh in the terminal. IDK whether I qualify as emo, but I am nerdy. I only think of myself as regular nerdy, though, not extra nerdy.
Was zsh the default at the time? Or did you switch to zsh? AFAIK the new default is BASH, but it was zsh for a while.
IMO, your level of nerdiness is much higher if you change the default shell.
I had to go back and check. Apple says that the default changed from bash to zsh in Catalina (10.15). I seem to recall a message coming up on the machine about zsh. I definitely remember poking around at config files and looking at iTerm2 vs. the default terminal app at the time.
Does that make me extra nerdy? IDK. I can tell you that I was more focused on “What’s going to be comfortable to work with” vs. nerding out on shell differences.
I do miss homebrew now that I’m working on a Windows laptop.
Maybe I remember wrong, but my memory is that at one point MacOS had zsh as the default and then switched to BASH, and then maybe back to zsh again. But, since Internet search is broken these days, I can’t find anything about that.
All I can really tell you is that I remember seeing a message about the new default being zsh, and that was back in 2020 or maybe 2021. So it def switched from something else to zsh, but whether it was bash -> zsh or zsh -> bash -> zsh…shrug
I use bash because gentoo’s portage has a hard dependency on it so in my mind it doesn’t make much sense to install and keep yet another shell just because colors and autocompletion. If they ever get rid of the bashisms in portage I’d surely consider moving to fish, but getting rid of the bashisms in portage means that portage could be ported to the BSDs one more time and we could have Gentoo/BSD again
Yeah, I agree. It’s quirky, its syntax is annoying, and a good ZSH setup is probably better… but I don’t have the time to do an actual ZSH setup.
A good zsh setup is not better. That’s why I switched off of zsh after years, because it was slower, more bloated, and less intuitive than fish. And bash is ten times worse than zsh.
Huh, the more you know. My only experience with ZSH is when I briefly used Manjaro, and it seemed fine at the time… but now that I say that I think about it, “Manjaro defaulting to it,” might have been a bit of a red flag…
Yeah to get the same setup in zsh you have to install a plugin manager and then quite a number of plugins. Most people default to omz (oh my zsh) but that’s the slowest way. If you pick through all the managers you can get a decent one, but even without a manager the overhead of loading plugins is just slower than building it in like fish does. Fish just is better. And I don’t think I’ve ever once needed posix syntax. If I need to run a script and it doesn’t have a shebang at the start then I just run > bash and start the script there.
Yup, that sounds exactly like what I do.
lol yeah. Like I thought I needed all this crazy stuff tacked on when in reality I just wanted sane defaults. The only thing I add to fish now is the spaceship prompt.
I just wish fish would accept standard bash syntax in addition.
Like, if you can warn me that “this is not how we set vars in fish, do this instead!” then you could also just, you know, do it.
I just wish my local restaurant would accept burger orders in addition.
Like, if you can warn me that “this is a Chinese noodle restaurant, we don’t do burger here. Order one of these instead!” then you could also just, you know, make me a burger!
you, I like you. Let’s bang!
That analogy only holds if they cook the burger for you, hold it in front of you, and go “we don’t make this”, then throwing it out
No, it’d be like, when you asked them do you know what a burger is? They pointed at a picture of a burger on the wall (they put this picture on the wall because for whatever reason people kept asking them to make burgers), and told you, of course we know what a burger is, we don’t make them, now order noodles or get out!
Okay, you know what… That’s actually better than what I said. Defeat acknowledged.
(However, it still seems a bit silly to me.
name="value"will prompt you to enterset name "value", with your exact name/value prefilled. As far as I know, it really is just syntax substitution; or am I wrong here? Are there semantic differences that can’t be translated?)i think it could be a slippery slope thing. things like
name="value"are easy to parse and implement, but then what if people keep asking for a little bit more, and a little bit more again? bash’s syntax is very very complex, there will be no winners if fish has a half-assed implementation of what bash does, it’s better to not even start.
So you want to bash fish like some kind of sicko?
No, I’m really happy with fish in general and use its syntax. The only times are things like e.g. a coworker sending me a 3-line script and then not being able to just copy, paste, enter.
yea but the posix sh set syntax is atrocious so not supporting it is doing you a favor
It’s Stockholm syndrome
I mean who doesn’t like putting mandatory quotes around all variables (though exceptions, like in
[[ ... ]]apply)?Or keywords like
fiandesacor worrying about $IFSfi and esac but not rof or elihw
smh my head
No od either
bash could really have improved things by giving us noitcnuf.
Our last apartment had a microwave that insisted that the off/cancel button was ONLY for the microwave part and NOT the timer part, and if you tried to use it to turn off the timer, would display a message saying “push timer button to turn timer off” (or smth to that effect). I found it infuriating. I told my wife, “if they can program it to sass me, they can program it to turn the damn timer off.”
Anyway. I get it.
