…if it is a time-bound prohibition, maybe in the order of a few weeks, so society can rethink about their consumption habits.
Indefinite prohibition, of the kind that was amended in the US constitution, denies the human desire to consume alcohol and pretend it can be legislated away. A cursory reading of the Wikipedia article on the capital-P Prohibition showed lasting effects in alcohol consumption (I guess, good in the sense that there’s changes in domestic abuse patterns, for example?) and organized crime (bad, with Al Capone and people like him)
Some people will go through dangerous withdrawals. Having been through that, you’re gonna have to propose how we’ll care for people who face that before I get onboard. That’s way before I complain that I don’t want you to take away my alcohol; people die from going cold turkey.
You’d think the manufacturers of Xanax would absolutely be in favor of a ban for this reason.
Alcohol withdrawal can kill, very few other substances are as dangerous to cut suddenly.
Yeah. Xanax is one of them. Also treats alcohol withdrawals.
Banning Jesus would save more lives.
Useless comment, we’ll do both now
Oh you poor fool. You think these monsters give a crap about Jesus lol. They’d just pick a new Jesus and continue doing this shit.
They did. Trump haha
I’m not a “the world is ending” type of guy but trump lines up more with the Antichrist than Jesus.
Prohibition made the problems worse though.
Eh? I don’t think it is well taught how bad alcoholism was in the English speaking world at the turn of the century. It was relatively common for men to drink away their wages, leaving their families poor. Alcohol also increased the likelihood of domestic violence, something which was somewhat socially acceptable.
Now, the outright ban obviously had nasty side effects including the creation of organized crime. However, I could see the argument that increased regulation and restriction in availability was justified.
After all, they had to ban buying gin by the pint.
If you think it isnt still common for people to drink away all of their family’s meager wealth I encourage you to find a local AA chapter, call up to ask for permission, then to come and listen in quiet support.
I’m not saying it isn’t possible today. What I’m saying is that it was far more common back before Prohibition.
Prohibition is one of the single biggest factors in the creation of organized crime at real scale. It took more than the local street gang to pull off everything that needed to be done. The American Mafia as we know it was a direct result of Prohibition.
Alcohol consumption itself didn’t change much. Speakeasies and bathtub brewers were open secrets. Cops didn’t raid them (much) because where else were they gonna get their 'shine?
In fact, my greats grandparents were bookies and bootleggers. My father told me his grandparents were pulled over with a trunk full of liquor during prohibition. Grandma said she would take care of it. Coo asked to see inside the trunk. Grandma said “Of course,” popped it open, pulled out two big bottles of liquor, tucked one under each of the cop’s shoulders and asked, “Is there a problem, sir?” He tipped his hat and bid them a safe trip as he climbed back into his car.
Time-based is an interesting proposition, though. As in, for two weeks or what have you, it is simply unavailable. You either have your home stock or you don’t. I can see benefits to that.
Imagine a world without authoritarian busybodies bent on inflicting their bizarre rules on everyone else.
They call that utopia
No, it’s called a delusion.
Only delusional people on earth are tge dumb fuckers that hate everyone, ya know those on the right politically. Especially the maga cunts, can’t wait for them to fall
My general view of things is that people can’t be trusted not to consume to excess but solving it by prohibition, even half measures like weekly limits or losing the right to drink, requires draconian laws and fuels organised crime.
Tobaccos a good ban candidate but I don’t see alcohol being a good idea, even more so because of how ingrained it is in normal life and events.
At the very least we should stop advertising it everywhere.
And how easy it is to make at home
It’s like saying eugenics isn’t inherently bad.
Maybe not but it always leads immediately to bad things.
Save this one. You’ll look back on it in ten years and laugh.
History (and the present, frankly) shows us you can’t stop people consuming things they want to
Attempting to do so only makes it less safe and puts more lives at risk (see: prohibition in the US, the war on drugs worldwide)
Hell even non-consumptive activities, any attempts to restrict abortion result in more deaths from unsafe abortion
You are correct, there are lasting effects in alcohol consumption.
Unfortunately, there are also lasting effects in alcohol prohibition. The costs of prohibition far outweigh the costs of consumption.
Humans have consumed alcohol for thousands of years, in many cultures, daily or near daily. It’s been banned a few times, and the costs are great. We know what they are.
- When you ban any very popular thing, you create a black market for that thing. In the case of a alcohol prohibition, a fantastically large and well-funded black market. This black market will murder many people to continue to make outrageous amounts of money (much more than anyone makes when it is legal).
- Home-made alcohol will be sold by that black market. Just like drugs, people will cut that alcohol to make larger profits. A lot of people will get sick and/or die from the various problems that arise with that. Much more than alcohol alone.
- Alcohol is a part of nature, you can’t get rid of it. It’s a byproduct of food. Food can also cause lasting effects from consumption. Very costly effects; obesity, addiction, heart disease, and so on are all often byproducts of food. Yeah, there are lasting effects from consumption. You don’t need alcohol to live, you don’t need Twinkies to live, and so on. Just… let it go. It’s a never ending quest for control that leads straight to hell.
- So not only do you have larger black markets with more money, and not only do you have increased workload for medical facilities everywhere, you also have to have a police force to suppress all of this now illegal drinking. You can pretend that these are robots that won’t abuse power, but they aren’t, and they will abuse power, and people will die. (and a lot of cops drink).
- This doesn’t even scratch the costs of prohibition. I could write a book. Instead, other authors have written about it, and they are much smarter than me. See Peter McWilliams, “Ain’t Nobody’s Business if you Do”. His death was tragically connected to prohibition, but I’d have to write another book.
The relationship between alcohol and violent crime is so tight, the police are prevented from keeping statistics on how many violent crimes are committed by drunk people. Thanks to a significant alcohol lobby.
People talk like alcohol is this untouchable pillar of society but, like, there’s one big prohibition success story being ignored here. The core problem with the original Prohibition is that it didn’t build up public legitimacy for such a move before doing it.
Very good success story when “proper punishment is flogging, though legal scholars disagree over whether the number of lashes should be 40 or 80”.
I mean, it worked, hence success story. Besides, there’s no nice way to enforce something via state violence, and Muslim flogging (as opposed to the stuff, say, Singapore is famous for) isn’t any more brutal than the crippling fines or imprisonment doled out by modern states.
Hate to spoil things but I know lot of Muslims that regulary consume alcohol. Also alcoholis not banned in modern muslim countries like Turkey, Azerbaijan, Albania. It’s ban in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, … all democratic countries.
Hate to spoil things but I know lot of Muslims that regulary consume alcohol.
I mean, sure, but those are (outside the Balkans) the overwhelming minority. Most of the first 30 or so entries on the list of countries by alcohol consumption per capita are Muslim countries for a reason.
Also alcoholis not banned in modern muslim countries like Turkey, Azerbaijan, Albania
It’s not banned in most of them, but Muslims (for the most part) don’t drink it anyway, because irrespective of the law the religious prohibition is taken seriously. That’s what I meant by public legitimacy: Islam got the vast majority of Muslims to quit alcohol by giving them a reason to do so (that reason being “God said so”).
I don’t know about time-limited bans, but the way cigarettes have been handled seems to have been pretty effective. Don’t ban but instead discourage use in a variety of ways, prohibit advertising, replace with anti-smoking propaganda campaigns, gradually limit permitted public consumption as usage comes down (which it has).
I could see alcohol getting the same sort of treatment in theory, it also has well documented harms to justify doing so. One thing I’d like to see is more social spaces/events for adults that don’t implicitly revolve around alcohol consumption. You can’t really prevent people who want to drink from doing it, but you could make it less convenient and more convenient for people who don’t drink. For instance maybe establishments that serve alcohol shouldn’t be allowed to have dedicated parking, since the expectation that someone is going to drive somewhere, drink little enough that they’re still entirely good to drive, and then have to either drive back home or face a huge hassle, sets people up for bad decisions.
Wouldn’t really mind heavily restricting alcohol advertising. Like only allow it in areas that sell it if you consider posters to be advertising.
Include gambling while you are at it.
Except smoking usage has increased in recent years.
Bans don’t stop people.
Look at what happened during prohibition.
Where are you getting that from? All the sources I’m seeing show dramatic long term decline, at least in the US, where the policies I’m talking about are in effect https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-smoking-trends
I agree that prohibition was a bad idea, and any measures that go far enough to create a black market for alcohol should be avoided, but there are other things that could be tried.
It taught us what happens when you try to make it illegal. Afterwards, it was legalised again, but with some government oversight. Seems to have worked out better than to prohibition era.
Strangely, drugs are still illegal though. I expect that having some government oversight with drugs should have a similar effect.
It is important to note that alcohol becomes a dependency. You cannot dry out like Amy Winehouse tried to do:
It will kill you.
You see, alcohol causes the body to stop creating GABA inhibitors. Without these inhibitors, the muscles will use all available energy.
This is why drunks get the shakes.
Without these inhibitors, your heart is going to pump, your diaphragm will vibrate, and your brain will burn.
You cannot just abolish alcohol. You are literally lining up a death sentence.
Are you going to outlaw yeast and orange juice? That’s why the prohibition failed: the need and the simplicity in making it. Very, very bad idea.
Oh, and we are going to bad mouth wash, vanilla extract, isopropyl alcohol… seriously, how could one ban beer?
Let’s ban nitrogen! It is inert anyway.
You know how messed up people can get off of oxygen?
Look, we aren’t talking about meth, or those in the know call them “Go” pills.
Just drink responsibly like you would eat responsibly.
edit: So many morbidly obese people in my life, like it is silly amounts, have criticized me for bringing a beer to a cookout.
Like, they are taller laying down than standing up, and telling me how I am killing myself with a beer. Seriously, I would have to use my toes to get a count. /facetious, I know excel…
Oh yeah, worked great the first time. Telling people they can’t do something isn’t going to stop them from doing it.
Great post!
And one I happen to agree with. Short term prohibitions can be a great tool to give an area a chance to play catchup with resources. Has to be used carefully, but it’s a solid concept
