Conservative groups influential with the Trump administration have pressed for the preemptive acts of clemency.
There’s a world of difference between a pardon issues to prevent malicious prosecution for non-crimew and one issued to people you’ve been instructing to commit crimes
Pardon’s must be nullified. You cannot pardon betraying the constitution or you invite future attempts.
I agree with you but changing the president’s ability to pardon crimes, an absurdly broad power, would require an amendment to the Constitution. I’m afraid that do so is a political impossibility right now. There are frankly too many criminals in office at all levels of government that would do everything they can to impede any such attempt. Trump has already pardoned his followers who betrayed the Constitution and committed treason on Jan-6 and I’ve heard only a peep or two about trying to limit the president’s power of clemency.
After charges. You can pardon from a conviction or a charge but you can’t grant preemptive pardons because those are effectively immunities.
You are in error. Nixon was pardoned by Ford for any and all crimes he may have committed in office. Carter issued a blanket pardon for all Vietnam draft dodgers whether charged or not. There is nothing in the constitution or court rulings that blocks a preemptive pardon.
The only rule, from an 1866 SCOTUS ruling is that the pardon must come after the crime, whether there have been charges or not.
“The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.”
Edit to add: Trump’s pardon of the Jan-6ers included a preemptive pardon for all those that had not been charged yet.
So what you’re saying is that you can’t think of any solution that doesn’t include violence?
Where did I suggest violence would work? I agreed that I felt the power of the pardon was too broad and said that I don’t see a viable solution. That doesn’t equal burn everything down.
What is the second solution?
If there is a huge problem that has no solution within the law, that means the problem will not be solved while the law is in place.
So what is the second solution?
Because if the system can’t be fixed using legal means, then it can only be fixed using illegal means.
They can still testify.
Republicans aren’t real good about showing up when subpoenaed to testify.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
If only.
People say getting rid of the pardon power takes a constitutional amendment… Y’all are not being creative enough like Republicans.
Just have the next president tell the Supreme Court to reinterpret pardons as unconstitutional. If they refuse tell them they you will assassinate any who refuse as an official act.
Realistically pardons are the stupidest presidential power. I understand they are necessary but the way Trump is using them should be unconstitutional.
I am not even sure they are necessary to have in the hands of a singular person. I think a citizens review board could come in a lot of different forms of varying merits and still be more fair then having it in the hands of one partisan elected person.
If I were designing it I would make it double as almost like a jobs program. You create these boards out of random citizens and make it a full time 40hr/46 week job. They have to research each case, argue the merits, and then vote all on public record. The duration would maybe 3 to 4 years for each cohort, with the first year being education, training and analyzing and debating the decisions of one of the prior cohorts. The other 2-3 years would be their effective working years. I would also have a recruitment office, so after the cohorts terms are done they could transfer into parallel professions if they wish.
I would make it so it has to be representative of the general population too, meaning not just race, sex and age, but former incarceration status has to be taken into account. Make it a lottery system where every name is by default in the system, if they don’t want the job (which will be most people) you move on to the next person until you fill your cohort.
We can go further: Now that the supreme Court has rules that presidents have immunity for all official acts, the next president could simply imprison the pardoned officials. In fact, the next president should dismiss and replace the Supreme Court justices who voted to give presidents complete immunity, so that the precedent can be reverted.
Yeah let’s turn everything into a competition over who can be more insane.
Yeah let’s turn everything into a competition over who can be more insane.
This exact same reasoning would lead to all murder victims just allowing themselves to be murdered.
Why shouldn’t we? Your life is basically a 0 on the cosmic scale, cause chaos we’re all just monkeys wearing pants.
There’s a world of difference between a pardon issues to prevent malicious prosecution for non-crimes and one issued to people you’ve been instructing to commit crimes
You’re not wrong, of course, but that’s not how the Constitution is written. The President’s pardon power (for Federal) crimes is absolute, with the only exception being in matters of impeachment. The whole notion of pre-emptive pardons seems silly, but Biden gave one to his son and that seems to have stuck.
However, there is an idea that giving a politically-motivated pardon for an actual crime can backfire, because if someone can no longer be prosecuted for something, it also means they have no reason to take the 5th amendment that prevents them from incriminating themselves under oath. So while individuals might be pardoned, the crime was still committed, and investigators are within their rights to bring charges against people they can prosecute. When the pardoned person is questioned under oath, they have to testify truthfully (with no recourse to the 5th amendment for the crime they were pardoned for) or else they can be prosecuted for perjury… which is a new crime that was not subject to any prior pardon.
So, the pardon power is in serious need of reform. That would take a Constitutional Amendment. But we can do anything in an amendment, as long as Congress and enough States agree. We can even retroactively nullify any pardon given by Trump! I doubt it would get the 38 states required to pass if it contained that clause, but a boy can dream, can’t he?
Also interesting to note that the process of passing an amendment does not require the President at all. It does need a 2/3 majority in both houses before it goes to the States, so it’s not something Democrats can do alone. But it would be the perfect middle finger to Trumpism if they can manage to build enough support to get it passed before Trump leaves office.
With how far out of pocket the Trump party is right now, I could see Trump writing an executive order against a new amendment and the GOP side of the SCOTUS finding in his favor. At that point the reasonable (hork) republicans would fold and the DOJ would just stay were it is, neck deep in diaper. That would be bullshit stacked deeper than the Titan sub, but is honestly more likely than the amendment getting passed in the first place.
I really do wish Trump would try to turn over one of those pardons to chase some made up crimes that clearly fail in court - just so he sets precedence and enables the next non-MAGA government to wipe out his pardons as well and mop up his ilk for every single cent misappropriated (not to mention the lives his regime cost, the treasons etc.)
They can be wiped by enforcing 14A3 disqualification and declaring his second term invalid
We need to be okay with ignoring these corrupt pardons. Start easing into it now.
Yes. 100%.
Arrest them. Again and again. Let the rest of their lives be spent fighting the “lawfare” they kept claiming was being waged against conservatives (but that they now aim at Democrats).
Need to make political crimes un-pardonable. Retroactively.
oh no you dont
Ugh Next government better recall all these dollarstore pardons and reverse the Epstein agenda…
There is no legal mechanism to rescind a pardon.
Yeah… there has been no legal mechanism for most of what trump has gotten done. Lock em up anyways and don’t explain shit. And whenever asked about it the administration can just laugh and move on to the next question.
Gosh, so weird. I would think the most bestest and most transparent admin in history would not need any kind of pardons?
Pardons for…what?
Also, maybe they can’t. Define the crime, please. Can’t pardon for “everything”, can you?
Well, they did give him broad immunity for all ‘offical acts’, so you never know.
The president’s power to grant clemency is almost completely unlimited.
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
So he can’t pardon someone who has been impeached and he can only pardon crimes against the United States, meaning federal crimes. That’s the only limit in the Constitution to his power. The only thing he can’t do according to the Constitution is pardon people who have been impeached and state crimes.
Preempive pardons have been granted in the past. Gerald Ford issued Nixon a “full, free and absolute pardon” for any crimes Nixon might have committed during his presidency. There is no requirement that the crimes pardoned be defined in the pardon. The only rule, per SCOTUS ruling in 1866, is that the crimes be committed prior to the pardon.
“The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.”
Trump has also talked about issuing himself a preemtive pardon and people have argued about whether or not the president can do that. I’m pretty sure I know how this SCOTUS would rule on that if and when it comes up.
I get it, the Dems are spineless law followers.
But we are no longer a nation of laws. Just exec order an unpardon and ham on.
Still pissed that Biden didn’t assasinate half the supreme court and like 5 Senators as an “Official Act”
Biden will go down as the second-worst President in history, precisely because he didn’t do ANYTHING to prevent what happened.
And to anyone who says he didn’t have the ability, Joe Biden was President when the Roberts Court basically ruled that Presidents could do anything as President without being charged, as long as it could be argued that said actions were part of their Presidential duties.
Yep you and the person before you read this dead on correct.
Even if I were to live another 100 years I’d doubt we’d see a worse President than Biden. Trump did exactly as I always thought he would. But I never imagined the Robert’s court while Biden was still President would hand him emperor powers.
The fact he didn’t pray to his God and then send wet teams after a litany of people, where he’d ultimately be sentenced to death at some point after the constitution would be amended to fix this shit, tells every one how much of a spineless coward Biden was. He couldn’t meet the moment even when he tried.
Drug runners always get the kids to do the crimes. trump is no different.
Laws are for little people.
small criminals break laws. Big criminals make laws.
It would be nice if this was a scheme for which only a few lawbreakers at the top were responsible but actually the “little people” had a choice and they’re the ones who voted to entrust Trump with the power to pardon.
I spent a lot of time knocking on doors for Harris. In the area I was, people wouldn’t trust her because of skin color and gender. They just couldn’t get past that.
The presidential pardon needs to be abolished.
It’s almost like the writers of the Constitution got tired of arguing after a certain point and did not care about looking deeper at many of the provisions that could easily be abused.
I don’t see them as the deep thinkers others do. They had grievances for the times and it’s clear that the works are all driven by those grievances and not for a long lasting society.
Almost like they were human. Is it better for them to just be ideal symbols than something real and complicated?
Elect me as president. I’ll start pardoning whistleblowers and antifa. They’ll abolish it within a week.
If they do this, I say we should ignore the rule of law and hang them after a mass trial. Frankly, pardons have been used to abuse America’s trust and integrity, not to any good end.
They’re asking Trump to give preemptive pardons.
The problem is if Democrats gain enough seats to hold Trump accountable he’s going to blame everyone else and won’t want to pardon them as punishment for failing him.
