GrapheneOS baby
Kicked my 15pro
man, just give me a flip phone.
I call bullshit. Apple fans happily take anything Apple pushes down their throats. Even a $999 monitor stand or a $40 microfiber cloth.
Yes every single iPhone owner also bought those 🙄
They also bought insanely expensive airpods because their phone didn’t have a jack plug anymore, so now they have fancy wireless airpods but to make sure they don’t lose them they buy Apple airpod wires for $20. You just can’t make this shit up.
Not every iPhone owner is an apple fan. I’m just aiming at the die hard Apple groupies.
You just made a lot of that up.
What, did I made up? That there are no more jack plugs in iPhones? Or that you can buy straps for airpods? Or that airpods are expensive?
Does your current phone have a headphone jack?
Yes it does.
Obviously you do whatever your preference is. But I’ve dusted off my old iPod and have been listening to music with good wired over ear headphones. I’d forgotten just how annoying having wires were when doing anything other than laying on a bed listening to music; gets caught on everything.
What I’m saying is I do not miss the headphone jack on phones literally one iota.
Wired headphones never run out of battery, wire can be tucked under clothes so won’t get cough on anything. Also won’t lose them as easy as tiny wireless pods.
Indeed it’s a preference, but by removing the jack plug it’s not. It’s forced down your throat whether you like it or not to spend loads more money on something which never was an issue, creating loads more issues. Like batteries. Next to that they can get empty, they get worse over time. Or you lose one pod. “Just buy new ones!” It’s all focused on make the consumer consume more, hoarding in exponentially more money and producing more waste. While I’m still enjoying my €120 wired headphones for over 15 years now, with exceptionally good sound quality. Except for the wire which I replaced 2 years ago, it’s still as good as new. The jack plug of my previous phone worn out, but I could easily replace that myself. Costs? $2 plug, $10 mini screwdriver set (which is amazing and I use very often) on aliexpress. Want to replace airpod batteries? Can’t, need to buy new ones.
I still have my old ipod 60GB, the first one with color screen. You know, when they forced the U2 album down your throat. It still works, so does it’s original charging cable and wired earpods. It’s over 20 years old. The charging cable which came with my iPhone 4 lasted for 4 months. The phone itself was functionally dead with an OS update. I’m never buying apple products ever again (same as Samsung, they went the same evil Corp road). Apple doesn’t want you to buy quality, they want you to buy quantity. Don’t fall for their scams claiming the non-existing problem they solved will improve your life.
I can still connect my old ipod and my current phone, to my audiophile 25 year old stereo through a tulp-jack cable. Or to any stereo with that cable at all my friends, in any older car with an aux plug or my boombox in the park.
Also, how would you connect a vintage synthesizer to airpods? You’d need to buy a powered jack to Bluetooth device, how dumb is that.
There’s nothing stopping you from continuing to use wired headphones with devices without 3.5mm jack. In fact, I often do when listening to music critically.
The official Apple 3.5mm-to-USBC plug, at $9, is apparently a very very good DAC for the price, but I find it a bit too flimsy for my taste.
Wow, I bet you’ve got that comment saved somewhere so you can copy/paste it at every opportunity.
Wow, I bet you’ve got that comment saved somewhere so you can copy/paste it at every opportunity.
And a $150 !! or $230 !!! sock
Best cumsock I’ve ever used
Lifestyle brands, amiright 🤷♂️
I subscribe to TWiT cause I grew up on The Screen Savers and Call for Help and regardless of what people think of him I still like Leo Laporte, the guy is my childhood. Anywho I listen to all their podcasts and I’ll sometimes listen to their weekly Mac one and it is absolutely insane the cult like behavior with these mac fans on this show. Oh they’ll complain about the monitors and everything else but will still continue to defend it all by the end. There is one woman on the show that just rants and raves constantly about the dumb decisions Apple makes but openly admits that she’ll continue to buy their products.
At least on the Windows podcast the one dude will go ham on Microsoft weekly and I feel is pretty much just on the podcast to make fun of them. Then you have the Linux podcast where those guys just make fun of everything and it’s honestly entertaining. Plus they have one guy who is in his 80s on there who is an absolute gem.
Career haters just love to shit on anyone who has a preference, and thinks they can boil down an entire group of population with a single pithy comment
You sound like a career hater. We did this ad nauseum in 2007, grow up it’s embarrassing for you
deleted by creator
Why do you even announce it? Just block and move on, no one cares
Because he has his own opinions and doesn’t jump into the anti apple hivemind?
Please block me too :)
You sound like
Ah yes, the amazing argument any pseudoscientist uses to prove their wild assumptions and prejudices. The well known “looks like” argument.
I have a very nuanced opinion about Apple and it’s users. I’m just talking about the insane Apple fanbase who, while being ass-raped by Apple, continue to defend the company and buy their products. There are few companies with such a die-hard fanbase. I’m not claiming all Apple users are Apple groupies. I’m just aiming at the people who buy a monitor stand for $999 or a $0.02 microfiber cloth sold for $40 which a normal person wouldn’t do.
I’m not claiming all Apple users are Apple groupies.
Oh ok cool so you’re just delusional from comment to comment?
Get help, hate ages you real fast. You’re way too upset over this
you’re just delusional from comment to comment?
What xD
Get help, hate ages you real fast. You’re way too upset over this
Right back at ya mate
microfiber cloth sold for $40
The polishing cloth is $19, but don’t let that get in the way of a good story.
I’m dabbling switching to GrapheneOS. Apple was the lesser of (obvious) evils compared to Google, but that’s becoming less true daily.
I don’t think I can make it my primary device yet, still need to de-cloud a bunch of services, but it’s very likely my next device won’t be an iPhone.
deleted by creator
its nice out here! waters fine
The problem is graphene is entirely dependent on one arm of that duopoly though.
Buy used. Google meets their security standards.
Or just wait for the Motorolas with preinstalled Graphene. We’re unsure of when they’re coming though.
My response concerned the duopoly though. Graphene is still dependent on google regardless. They can’t maintain all of android themselves even if they tried. So it’s the best of a bad situation but does nothing to alleviate the overall problem.
I’m running GrapheneOS since about 2 years now and I’m more than happy.
Didn’t had any real issues with it.
Art the start Android Auto didn’t work, but it does now - although I don’t really use it.I have Google play service stuff installed, but sandboxed.
And my banking apps work just fine.Friend of mine made the switch a few months ago and haven’t heard of any complaints either.
Can highly recommend it :-)
I’d use Android Auto + Sandboxed Google Play more if Android Auto allowed NewPipe, OsmAnd and other FOSS apps to be added to the dashboard.
Have you tried going to developer options and allowing unknown sources? That’s how I get metrolist and other apps in Android Auto
I somehow also get a lower resolution Google maps, when using Google Auto.
That was the reason I don’t really use it.For music and stuff, I just use Bluetooth
But good luck having Google add something as NewPipe to be allowed with Android Auto ;-)
There is actually a working YouTube client for android auto, but you have to “sideload” it
Ah, cool, didn’t know about that
Thank you very much! :-)That whole site just screams scam
My current phone is old and just recently my bank app stopped working because the phones android version is too far behind. Is there any way to load Graphene OS on an android phone, and would it maybe help me get around having to use the website for my banking now?
If it’s not a Pixel, it’s currently not possible. If you don’t need the security features of GrapheneOS, you could look into LineageOS on a wider range of supported devices.
Currently GrapheneOS is only supporting Pixel phones - and not sure about the oldest ones, that get supported
But here is their FAQ with the current list of supported devices:
https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
What about hotel keycard apps?
We use them when traveling because SO hates talking to people,lol. Or when its 3 am.
I have never used those - didn’t even know those exist
Usually I need the key card anyway to active the power in the room… Which sucks
So, can’t say anything about that, but it’s just usual Android, so I don’t see much issues here.
Banking apps are usually just more strict with which system they support, so that was my primary worryEdit: but as I don’t really know about those hotel keys apps, does this mean I have to install an app per hotel (chain), which probably tries to grab some personal data again, or is this just some key, I can use in some FOSS app?
Great for shy people ha,
Thats crazy ive never been in a hotel with no power until you swipe.
At least in Europe, there is often a slot in which you need to put in the key card the hotel provided (or often any card, because it’s just a switch and doesn’t check the card), so you don’t waste energy, while you’re not in the room
Said slot for the card is just at the wall after you open the door. So you usually have power, before you’re even really inside, because you just reach in and out the card in place.
It’s a bit annoying, but that’s pretty much it.As the room should be empty, when there is no card in the slot, I’m not sure how that makes it worse for shy people though o:-)
Needing to install an app and trusting my phone to be charged and functioning, when I want to enter my room, seems much more stressful for me ;-)
I’m mainly waiting for them to add banking apps. My bank is a small local credit union so it might be a while.
I’m using my banking apps (business and private) without issues
It’s not about GrapheneOS adding those apps, it’s about the bank allowing their apps to run on that Android device/version.
(Or someone correct me here, but that also makes more sense to me, than a whitelist on GrapheneOS side)
It a process. You can decloud while on the new device and the benefits will just increase with your progress.
iPhone users 🚶♂️➡️ switching to android
Android users 🚶♂️switching to iPhone
Android users 🚶♂️switching to
iPhoneGrapheneOSSwitching to iPhone would just be objectively worse in literally every way
I don’t think you understand what objectively means.
No, I do, and I’m objectively correct in my use of it.
Terrible bait
I switched to iPhone after being on android since kitkat. Worst decision I made. Basic functions of the device don’t work/crash out. There’s seemingly no global ‘back’. Each app can dictate how back works. So I’ve found myself having to remember which apps use the swipe back feature and which don’t. They brought in the ai autocorrect stuff which completely changes words that I type. The glass ui stuff is horrific. Some text is unreadable due to the transparency effect.
Just terrible times all around. Looking to go to Graphene on my previous pixel phone next…
I had to spend a lot of time interacting with someone else’s iPhone recently while traveling, and the experience was shocking. Can’t believe how bad Apple has gotten.
EDIT: LOL at the downvotes, enjoy your overpriced privacy nightmare that lacks basic, standard features or usability. It was extremely clear that the entire UX was shamelessly designed to limit you from doing anything that does not lock you in further to the Apple ecosystem
They always have been this bad, if anything they’ve gotten (slightly) better over the years.
I’ve never had an iPhone, but I had a gen 2 or maybe gen 3 iPod touch way back in the day. I definitely jailbroke mine, so maybe that has skewed my memory of its usability, but it was not bad like trying to use an iPhone today.
Yeah, jailbreak doesn’t count.
You picked a bad time to switch. Arguably this is there worst version ever.
In fact, if they have the know-how, they should switch to something else. Android nowadays isn’t much different from iOS, and I’m pretty sure that what was included in iOS will eventually land on Android too.
Won’t be any different. It’s just a matter of time before Android goes the same
Mainstream Android will likely go the same path but there’ll also probably be 10s of workaround and forks straight up saying fuck you, bitch.
You won’t have any other option on iOS other that to take the boot up yo a.
And you’ll probably use the usual “most people won’t do that, tho”. These are kids we are talking about and have you ever told a determined kid that they couldn’t do something?
This kowtowing the corporations and governments is how we got here and fuck people who bend the knee before even trying.
GrapheneOS is Android and declines to introduce that
Not sure when you’ll be labelled a terrorist by using a privacy respecting OS though…
You’re already on the list of future terrorists
Spanish police already profiles you for using grapheneOS
https://www.androidauthority.com/why-i-use-grapheneos-on-pixel-3575477/
Thanks for that input!
Just came back from a business trip in Spain.Maybe I missed it in the article, but do you know, how they do it?
I guess on the phone network level, my phone isn’t shouting “GrapheneOS here!!”.
So how do they profile me?
Only after they already control me somehow or…?Still, this is getting more and more Orwellian
Hopefully my Jolla will be to exotic in the first period, but on the long term, this all is a really worrying development with the aim of mass surveillance
Yeah I think it’s like “this guy that we suspect of being a drug dealer uses grapheneOS, which proves that he’s a drug dealer”.
They profile you by looking at you. Cop sees you use your grapheneOS phone and thinks you’re a drug dealer. There’s no tech involved. They just use it as a sign, same way they’ve used hoodies, skin colour, or nationality to suspect you of something.
How should that work?
My GrapheneOS Android doesn’t look any different than any other Android - and they’d need to look at my screen while walking by or something.They can’t even see the exact Android version without trying to access it - or having me show them explicitly my “About phone” screen or something
I really don’t see how that should work in practice
If they pick me out and want to scan my phone, then it could be used against me, that they can’t access my data.
But hey, that’s what GrapheneOS is here for, to don’t allow anyone access to my data, who shouldn’t have accessSo, in practice this is not really relevant or do I misunderstand something?
By the way our corporate dictatorships are speed-running totalitarianism, I’d say before the decade is done. I will choose to be an antifa terrorist before I accept fascism.
This is actually the least invasive form of age verification for Apple users. Apple already has a credit card on file for something like 90+% of the user base.
The alternative the political whore class are promoting is apps individually verifying with a multitude of
data brokers“ID providers”.This is the illusion of choice under the surveillance capitalism of corporate dictatorships. Rather than regulate capitalists, the gov colludes with them to exploit and enslave consumers.
Considering they are more or less attempting that reasoning in regards to VPN usage in the states I’d say maybe a few weeks?
How can they control that I’m accessing my own Wireguard or company VPN?
Or does this only affect commercial (or free) VPN services one could use?The technical illiteracy of politicians is still astounding to me
Edit: and how would they control TOR?
I could potentially use a TOR to VPN chain. Albeit slow, it would still work.
Registering with ID for TOR would be the mostannoyingamusing thing I’ve heard in a long time…
(Don’t know why autocorrect didn’t like the word ‘amusing’. Had to finally type it out. Seems not much fun stuff happening in my life ;-))Right. Or site to site tunnels. Or client vpns for companies.
Some are uneducated, some are evil, either way we’re fucked lol
Buddy if I haven’t been labeled a terrorist yet after the things I’ve publicly said I am never gonna be labeled a terrorist.
You don’t know, in what list you maybe already show up
Just because police hasn’t knocked on your door, doesn’t mean, that in case all that shit will be held up against youWho knows, who is already monitored, because just of a drunken or honest comment, that icks someone the wrong way
Its so dumb because unless you specifically type /s you can never tell if someone is serious online. Literally all context gets lost on social media. We used to allow humans grace before mass surveillance came along.
Yep, “they” can just pull out a comment of context and put you into some kind of group
As you said, stupid it is
If they make their lists too broad however, the lists become useless and we can all hide in the noise.
Unless they choose to dragnet style round everyone up.
I always assumed that they were collecting that data from your contacts list already. I’d like to know how many people are actually affected by this or needed to “verify” their age after updating to 26.4
Also, switching to Android isn’t going to help with this.
In the UK
Yeah, it’s not about switching to Android, it’s about switching to the EU.
iOS doesn’t (or at least didn’t for a very long time) let you install an app without registration. 99% of those people have their credit card data registered with Apple. Now they are pissed that Apple will asks them to use credit card to confirm they are adults? Hilarious.
Go then. There are other worlds than these… (that’s from the Dark Tower books by Stephen King).
Honestly… I have both. I have a 2024 iPhone Pro Max (16) and a 2019 Galaxy S (10). The iPhone is my main device. The Android phone is WiFi only, but if I have WiFi, I’d rather browse Lemmy on that, because iOS has this controversial feature where it will change what you type after you’ve typed it. So you’re constantly proofreading. Android doesn’t do that shit, or at least Samsung’s fork doesn’t do it. There are a few things I like about Android. My Android phone is basically a NookPhone — the phone you get in Animal Crossing. The case, the background, the icons… of course they’re just icons for actual apps. I don’t have the NookPhone apps. “Pro Camera” just opens the Samsung camera. “Passport” just opens my Animal Crossing item tracker. “Chat” just opens Telegram, which I just use for cross-platform media-rich chat with my wife. You can’t do that with iPhone — certainly not the 3x3 app grid the NookPhone has.
And there are a couple things iOS does better. Apple Health doesn’t sell your data. A couple years ago, my wife’s Galaxy phone told her she’d have to agree to let Samsung sell her health data, or she’d have to delete it and opt out of the app. No one’s been able to point us to a health data tracking app that is free, private, and good on Android. Everyone agrees (or refuses to speak up and disagree) that Apple Health is the de facto winner here. So it’s worth having an iPhone for that, at the least. Plus, AirPods are at least marginally better than the Android equivalents.
So yeah… at some point, I’m gonna upgrade the Android phone. Might even switch to Android, as in, move my cell service from the iPhone to the Android phone. And still keep the iPhone for health tracking, music, and whatever else I want it for. At least until the Mac can do all that stuff. As of now, it actually can’t. Music yes, health no. As I am also a Mac user. I would have no problem going Mac + Android, if my Mac did Apple Health (as opposed to just mirroring the notifications). I tried to make a Shortcut where my Mac could log Health data. It wouldn’t even log the data and pass it to the iPhone over iCloud. It straight up said “no” to that. So the iPhone has me for Health data.
But I’m not gonna sit there and pretend Apple gives a shit if I buy an Android phone. That’s just stupid. And Google gives less of a shit if you buy an iPhone, because they figure chances are good you’ll just put Chrome and other Google apps on it and hand them your data that way. No, I buy what I want because it’s the best for me and what I’m doing. IDGAF what the corpos think about it.
iOS has this controversial feature where it will change what you type after you’ve typed it. So you’re constantly proofreading.
You can disable auto-correction: Settings > General > Keyboard > Auto-Correction
I agree this is annoying and this is enabled by default.
Disabled on mine. It still changes what I put. Apparently “and” is a bad word now. I can get it capitalised, I can get sand, I can get Andy, but “and” in lowercase, Apple says no-can-do. (Typing on my Mac now, on a mechanical keyboard. Odd that the Mac doesn’t have this problem. Probably because it has an actual keyboard. Mac does have predictive text, which is kind of annoying… I see the appeal, but I’m never gonna reach over and strike Tab to complete a sentence or word.
What are you on about? Autocorrect can be annoying, and typing on the iPhone has gotten shitty over the years, but “and” is easily typed with or without autocorrect on. And and and and and.
Typed on iPhone.
Well, if you can get mine to let me type it, that would be helpful. Anecdotes are interesting, but they don’t help.
Anecdotes are interesting, but they don’t help.
Indeed.
Yeah, I mean I figured you weren’t trying to help, you didn’t really need to confirm it.
The question is, is this you at your best, or are you just having a bad day?
Not being able to type one specific word with autocorrect off is such a weird outlier that, with all due respect, I’m not sure if I’m to take your complaint seriously. And for it to be what has to be a top 50 most used word is befuddling. So if I were to try to earnestly help, I’d say:
- actually double check that you have autocorrect off. Not that autocorrect would or should make “and” impossible to type (autocorrect is on for me, and “and” types just fine), but making sure it’s off or at least toggling it on then off again could have an effect.
- has someone played a prank on you? Settings>General>Keyboard>Text Replacement. Has someone put an entry to replace “and” with “band” or something similar?
- software really doesn’t exhibit bugs unique to you in the way, say, hardware that’s been dropped may exhibit unique behavior. If 1 or 2 above doesn’t address it, my best guess is you are being disingenuous in your complaint which is why my comments read as dismissive.
Gotta love a Dark Tower reference. Love that series.
Apple isn’t an advertising company so it feels like they’d be more up to not selling your data and such. But honestly I don’t really trust it.
I went from Android to iOS purely because I was sick of devices being supported for a year or two, when Apple supports their phones with mainline updates for six+. I feel like the overall user experience is better, it’s smoother, more polished, and I can do what I need to do rather than struggle with something half-baked.
My work phone is a Pixel 6, and I absolutely hate using it. Google hasn’t worked on the user experience even a little.
Would still rather a janky Linux phone that I actually own than anything else.
What I do trust is the outcome of government requests. When they have the legal authority to force apple to hand over everything and they don’t have anything to hand over thats just about the only way you can trust someone.
This is the only real way to view it.
Apple is an advertising company.
Open the App Store, news, stocks, or maps. News and Stocks have the scammiest ads you’ve ever seen.
I prefer iOS to Android, but I do like that on graphene vpns and such actually work with granular controls. I agree, I want to try a Linux phone at this point.
No they are not, 73.77% of their revenue is hardware. This would mean they are a hardware company.
I don’t see ads in any of those applications.
Apple doesn’t really promise device update time frames. They basically support a device as long as it’s feasible because they are still, at their core, a computer company, though they are more focused on the iPhone and related accessories than the Mac lately. They are transitioning to a services company. But still, updates are based on what they conservatively think the device can handle. Even phones that aren’t getting the latest iOS still get security updates. iOS 18 and older versions are still getting updated, but they get no new features.
With Android, it’s more about getting people to buy new phones, which isn’t a dumb idea from a business perspective. Back when US carriers were giving phones away a lot more (like 15 years ago), it was actually a game to piss off customers so they go and buy a phone from a competitor sooner. They all benefited from churn. These days, Google and Samsung are offering 5+ years of promised updates, but they don’t support them beyond that, because a customer who won’t upgrade has no value to them.
iOS is a bit more polished than Apple, though that’s largely down to the developer. It’s easier to support iPhones because there are fewer of them. But plenty of apps are just fine on Android.
Agree with you about a janky Linux phone. I kinda want it to be janky! I miss when phones were kinda rough and you had to know how they worked. I loved messing with custom firmware around 2012-ish. Android Jellybean was awesome for tinkering.
But they already switched to Android when Apple removed the headphone jack. Oh wait, that’s right - nobody did.
Android removed the headphone jack soon after, and took the SD card slots with it. There are only a few phones that still have these.
Jeez, every platform and company is going to that ID and face recognition crap. Should we say goodbye to our little bit of privacy and anonymity on the Internet?
Why’s Apple even doing this? They’re not a social media platform to begin with.
Facebook had lobbied so that the age verification is handled by the device rather than the application. The applications then need to check against this device API and conform accordingly.
This ends up cheaper for Facebook and opens up for future legislation to embed similar shit in the OS for companies to exploit.
Because governments are mandating it.
bullshit. no they won’t. stock android also gonna get age verification, and is considered bad by apple users, plus its a different ecosystem. stop sharing shit articles like this.
I might be a minority but the week liquid glass hit my phone I ordered a pixel, sold my iphone. iPad, apple watch, and air tags that weekend.
I don’t know if that compares as one is a ui/function overhaul and the other is a data field for access to things.
We all know that every other manufacturer is gonna copy apple, exactly how basically overnight everyone switched to the flat icons of iOS 5
Example: Google has already redesigned the Google maps icon on Android to look more “glassy”
We all know that every other manufacturer is gonna copy apple,
Yup. It will start with Samsung and creep over to the other mfgs.
It’s happened with several other features and “features”.
Is that so?Yes. Here is how the icon was in August 2025, before the launch of apple liquid ass:
And Google home had a similar “glass” icon redesign
Both bad.
Want the original one before the whole 4-color redesign back
No idea what liquid glass is, but that’s a heavy reaction.
What are you sporting now?
It’s a tweak to the UI. Not perfect, but I barely even notice a difference from old UI. People just like to complain.
The clear icons are ugly, but you don’t have to use them, so it doesn’t really matter.
It’s just the Aero glass from win 7 on an iPhone. I don’t mind it
In the apple basic apples they hid data that was normally visible and showed data that was irrelevant to the current function or plain redundant. Having to notifications un readable due to the transportnt was awful UX design.
Overall it comes off as if an intern was told to update the UX and had no per-review when deployed.
I loved my apple ecosystem system and wish I didn’t change but the functions that have been slightly adjusted over 10+ years were turned upside down in one patch.
The complaint is justified as you look around online very few people outside of tech bloggers had anything positive to say about liquid glass.
Why not just make it so nobody under 18 can own a smartphone. Why these fucking useless age checks.
This. Smart watches exist. Kids don’t need smartphones.
If you grow up one of the tiny % of kids that grow up without one, it will result in some developmental disadvantages I think. On the other hand, modern social media will impose another set of disadvantages, but fact is that social media and the internet in general are a large part of modern society, so not being able to interface with it until you’re 18 will leave you behind a learning curve.
Actual studies say that kids that use phones and laptops are actually less intelligent. I think no phones until 18 would be doable. No laptops would be hard though.
Actual studies say
The general consensus is the studies say that usage of devices impacts everyone. Let’s not cherry pick a particular minority here, just to explain that stripping their already insignificant rights is a good thing. In addition teenagers, which are not children, are dismissed here. According to studies they are more similar to adults in therms of decision making capabilities - dismissing that is ageism.
I think no phones until 18 would be doable
This is essentially the same speak as the laws trying to ban privacy for all. First of all where is the consent? Also, what is the sense of punishing the minority for being who they are, stripping their rights, if the perpetrators are still unharmed? In essence, phone and laptop usage wouldn’t be so bad for anyone (not just kids or teenagers), if we focused on the actual problems not turn to discrimination.
Someone who didn’t touch a phone until 18 is going to be so susceptible to scams, catfishes, propaganda, digital manipulation, etc, that I definitely think it is a dangerous nuclear option. Controlled, monitored by good parents, layered introduction is definitely better in my opinion.
No idea why would they be more susceptible to scams. You think they would be more gullible? Or that they would be so confused about the ability to talk over phone? Smartphones for kids are security devices that let them communicate with parents so you would have to replace them with something, either dumbphones or smartwatches. Both would let them communicate with people over phone so it’s not like at 18 they would be exposed to something completely new.
Still, laptops would be more complicated because how do you ban those? A lot of grooming and child abuse happens through Roblox. How would you solve it without some sort of age verification? I think we either have to accept that kids will be exposed to those things or do what Chat Control 2.0 is proposing and impose age verification in high risk platforms. Since I don’t have kids I’m fine with just accepting the risk…
Please stop trying to justify fascist laws. Ageism is still discrimination. And like people, without prior experience it is quite logical they will be susceptible. This of course applies to anyone any age.
The only problem here is the predatory system that is designed to exploit people. The victims are not the predators so justifying how their rights should be stripped based on an arbitrary number makes this whole argument insignificant.
Like other types of discrimination: racism, sexism, there are other ways than to introduce more social segmentation which always leads to fascism.
This doesn’t make any sens. They would be susceptible without what experience? With scammers? You think children learn about scammers by interacting with them? I remember when I got my first “Nigerian prince” scam email. I was maybe 16 and I had no idea what it was. No one knew back them. What previous experience would help me deal with it? I’m sure being older would help but I’m not sure if someone trying to scam me when I was even younger would. There would just be higher change of me falling for it.
Also, the system is not predatory, there are simply predators in the system. The age verification laws are like bad tasting batteries and child proof bottles. Parents should make sure their kids don’t have access to batteries or pills but since a lot of them don’t care the government has to step in and put some protections in place. You can’t simply ban pedophiles from roblox and you can’t trust parents to oversee what their kids are doing online so politicians come up with some safety measures. Unfortunately all solutions are huge pain in the ass for everyone else.
Saying that age is just an ‘arbitrary number’ is delusional. We don’t let kids buy cigarettes, alcohol, drive or vote. The concept that kids can’t be trusted to make informed decisions is well established in every society in the world. Calling it ‘ageism’ is silly.
Rhetorical questions aside. Let’s not counteract a dystopia with another dystopa here.
Surveillance.
Exactly, children and teenagers are meere tools.
Me using an android as a child taught me how to use linux, command line etc. seems arbitrary to deny the phone entirely. maybe certain online services should be though
What were you using command line in Android for as a child?
Rooting the device gave me my first exposure to linux command line and some base operating system functions installing ROMs and customizing. Later in college for CS realized a knew more than what I expected.
as a child
So you where under 12, when you learned how to use Linux?
In general, I do agree with controls set on children, locally by the parents that is - excluding teenagers.
A bit older, think as a teen I had the first android phone that released htc dream
I first used linux with Ubuntu Hardy Heron, I was 8 or 9 years old…
the ‘macs are cool’ to ‘modifying windows to look like mac’ to ‘try linux’ pipeline was realI did move back to windows with the windows 7 ‘black’ beta I found on kickasstorrents tho.
Ah… 2008 was a much simpler time (on the internet)
To be fair, having experience in OSes from childhood is certainly a life lesson to the upcoming years within teenhood and adulthood. I’m not undermining this attribute, as within a world of complexity, having any experience already puts you further than most.
I also discovered Linux when I was around 8-9, Ubuntu 10.10 was my first distro (was already 5 years out of date by then but it’s all I had), partially daily drove 14.04 2-3 years later, then went full daily some time in 2021. here I am today using a linux phone, all because “hey dad how do I make windows look like Mac”
I was obsessed with computers and machines ever since I discovered them for the first time
