- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
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gg, we’re done, it’s been good ✌️
Cool, so I guess you’re just okay with an authoritarian State. Just gonna roll over at the first opportunity?
What can I do from over in northern Europe?
[ redacted ]
Stop spreading doom and gloom before the fight has even begun. That would be a good start.
Sorry? How have I been doing that exactly?
Can I have your pog collection before you go?
Does this apply to Mestashtics?
Meshtashtic-net, anyone?
I wonder what the “Lib-Right” would say about this lmao
It doesn’t apply to anything open source because it can’t be enforced.
Without the document text, who knows. But I would not consider it a stretch for a court challenge to interpret “operating system” as “any software that allows a person to interact with computing or electronic hardware”. Which would blanket cover all embedded devices.
LMAO at the engineers having to verify their age on systems controls
“You figure out what was wrong with PLC7 yet?”
“Nah, TrumpCard ID systems are down, can’t log in.”
What about kids toys with some chip in it? My car probably has 30 chips and OSes in it, am i supposed to age verify those OSes? What about servers that run databases and other things, am i supposed to register those? thos is all so fucking stupid. god i hate fascists.
ERROR: YOUR PACEMAKER HAS CRASHED, PLEASE PRESENT YOUR ID TO VERIFY THAT YOU…
checks notes
… actually need a pacemaker and not just some kid… why need ID? cuz… something something counterterrorism and protect children…
Meshtastic does not have the bandwidth to replace the internet. It handles message just fine, but the amount of data you’d need to send for even a quarter of what the current internet can provide would feel like trying to surf the modern internet on a 56k modem.
A 56k modem is way faster than Meshtastic. It’s more like a 1200 baud modem and everyone in the neighborhood shares the bandwidth.
Everyone in this comment section, you’re just gonna take this? Its been time, but if this is what motivates you to throw bricks at politicians then lets go
They’re too busy throwing bricks at Sam Altman’s house 😂
If they were people of action, they wouldn’t have Lemmy accounts.
Those violence inciting comments always read to me like “Hey, reply to me so you can be put on a watchlist”
Is there something that limits a person to a single lemmy account?
You know, to make that watchlist effective?
Patience, probably.
Last I checked most of the instances had waiting lists and some sort of written answer application
You access the Internet through a network owned by a corporation under the jurisdiction of a government, your ISP knows who you are and so your government knows who you are.
Both of our Lemmy instances are hosted by Hetzner, in Finland and Germany. Both instance’s connections are proxied through Cloudflare, an American tech company.
Any one of these entities has the ability to track you to at least an ISP and potentially down to the nearest street intersection if you’re using fiber/cable. And that ISP will have records linking your IP lease information to your identity, or at least the credit card/billing information that you provided.
The kind of people who would be putting you on a watchlist are not the kind of people who will be thrown off by simply changing usernames on social media.
Take an upvoter because you speak the true true.
Will giving my unwanted opinion about Linux help this dire situation?
Can’t hurt
Hit a nerve there lol
squints at your username
What are these politicians going to do when they achieve perfect age verification?
Well then they’ll know where all the children are…so they can go find and rape them.
It’s kind of nuts how people talk about US politicians now the same way we began collectively talking about catholic priests 10 years ago.
I hope the pejorative sticks.
10 years ago? I can remember going to catholic school when I was 5, and my dads friends joking that the priest was going to get me, and rape me. I had no idea what that meant at the time, but that was the 1980s.
Gather lots and lots of data on its users.
I can just stop being online. I show my library card when I need to renew my stateID
If the fascists get much further, possessing a library card will disqualify you from voting.
You think fascists are still going to allow voting?
Successful fascists do, and yes. Don’t fall into this fallacy and act early, instead of too late.
It’s not who votes that counts, it’s who counts the votes.
That can’t be true. We all know trump can’t count. He’s bankrupted THREE casinos! HOW THE FUCK CAN HE NOT MANAGE A CASINO, BUT CAN RIG AN AMERICAN ELECTION???
…because it’s not him doing it. He’s mainly a figurehead, a useful idiot. It’s the smart fascists around him and behind him. Peter Thiel, Roger Stone, Russ Vought, Stephen Miller, Mitch McConnell, etc. etc. and basically all the Christian Nationalists and White Supremacists who’ve been working for over 30-40 years to chip away at and infiltrate every US institution. It took a long time, but they worked patiently to reach the point where this was possible.
Citizens United and the Heritage Foundation.
I’m so happy that I’m an elder millennial that grew up before internet. I’m 100% okay not using the internet.
I’m going to start looking into Meshtastic and Reticulum … they look pretty cool.
lololololol
Was starting to think I was the only one who didn’t know wtf Meshtastic is lol
We gonna go back to BBS with pixel titties
I told a 30 yr old if this bs comes to Canada I’ll just drop all internet connections. He asked what the hell I would do without internet, I replied “Hey, I grew up in the 80s, I’ll just go back to the way I lived before the internet. Read books, listen to music, and use the library I have.” He looked like I simply said I was gonna cut off my hand
I have enough backlog of dvds, books, console games and cds to last me the rest of my days. Wouldn’t bother me none.
Beautiful
YOU can stop being online, maybe.
We’re queer, and furry, and therian, and plural. We do not have community in dirtspace/so-called “real life” (online is just as real).
Some people need the internet to survive.
– Frost
There’s NOTHING Safer than having the Epstein Class KNOW where Kids are and WHEN they’re Home Alone!
-US Politicians!
I left the US in the year 2000 and it’s gone downhill since then.
Has to be more than just coincidence.
Come back!
No, don’t. Everyone should leave.
You guys managed to fuck up your own country so badly, we sure as hell don’t want the same for our countries.
Ugh, this is so disgusting! They desperately want control over things they should never have! I’ve shared my opinion will all three of my representatives.
Kudos on paying them some attention!
Does AIPAC pay them more?
Remember folks, age verification is personal identity verification.
If it’s completely local I’m less worried than online verification.
I’m not uploading any age verification online. I’ll quit the internet first.
💯 don’t call it age verification - that’s just what the unmasked scooby-doo villain is still hiding behind.
Well they could do it the right way where, for example, you go to your city hall to get a certificate of age where they check your ID. Then some cryptography happens so you only enter a public key from that certificate on a website or OS to verify your age.
The website or OS doesn’t check your ID. City hall doesn’t know your browsing history.
But I’m not fooling myself, that’s not the point of such a law.
no implementation of personal ID for internet access will ever be “correct.”
Exactly. Digital ID verification is in no way comparable to physical ID verification.
incorrect.
Never say never there is ALWAYS a way to do things right. But our government is too stupid to do it. So it might as well be impossible. Kek
That’s not true. It’s simple if all you actually want is age verification.
You go in to the government building and show your ID. Seeing you are 18 or older you get to go to another room where they don’t check your ID, just give you a token saying the one holding it is over 18. Make the token like a FIDO key where you have a pin you set yourself.
There is an air gap between the validation and the token creation so there is no way to go from token to ID. You make the key use a pin so we consider it to be once usable by one person.
The issue is not about the technology. The issue is that we all know this has nothing to do with kids getting on porn sites.
You make the key use a pin so we consider it to be once usable by one person.
Now you have trusted the user not to provide the PIN to another, and the implementation is no longer correct. You’d at least need to use biometrics to tie the key to the person.
You are changing the goal. The point of this is to provide THE USER with a solution where they don’t have to give away their personal information to the Government or the 3rd Party site. We do not care about situations where users commit crimes as that means our focus is on the Government’s needs which they would already have met by just implementing a “Show us your ID” solution.
Now you could make the pin be a biometric so it’s physically connected to the user. But part of the solution needs to be that the token is not identifiable with the user. If I pull of my wrist band no one will know it was mine. If you throw out your token someone could go around testing everyone’s fingers and find out it was yours.
Without ensuring that the key issued to one person is not used by another, the key does not prove the age of the user, and isn’t that the whole point of the key?
no, the point of the key is to access infomatîon without giving away personal information.
Even a photo ID doesn’t prove age. It just shows a record of what age the gov thinks someone is. They are still prone to forgery, misuse, etc. There isn’t any actual method of showing someone’s age so we can skip that part and focus on what the actual need of the user is, accessing a website while not handing over more personal information than is necessary.
Would these tokens be unique per website visit? Are they generated by the user or the government?
It can be a shared token. For example a cryptographic hash. There are many solutions for the problem of certifying a token while giving no traceable data.
In most solutions there would be the traceability of knowing “User X went to site Y and site Z” but never knowing who “User X” is. There have been solutions proposed that create site specific hashes where it becomes more difficult if not impossible to track a user across different sites. So it just depends on if this issue needs to be resolved or not.
Personally I would be fine letting every porn site I use know I’ve been to every other porn site. If you wanted to go somewhere that you don’t want them to know, throw out your token and go get a new one.
“Key questions remain unanswered, such as the definition of “operating system provider,” the type of verification required, the focus on major commercial platforms, and the potential scope beyond them.”
I guarantee this bill is unenforceable. Cars, phones, traffic lights all have have computers with operating systems. All modern tech has an operating system of some sort. Also how do you even verify age? If my laptop is offline can I just not use it because it can’t confirm my id? What about tech that never goes online but has an OS, like a calculator? I can’t believe microsoft and apple are not lobbying against this. Who becomes liable if an “underage” person is accidentally given access or if access is denied to an “of age” person. I can just imagine an emt frantically looking for their driver’s license so they can use the computerized defibrillator.
The problem comes when a public school’s IT department is deciding whether to go with a FOSS option, or a commercial OS. As the IT team has full control over the FOSS OS, the school will be held liable as the OS provider. They will select a commercial OS to avoid liability under these idiot laws.
What is this argument? You and I both know they want this age verification at the OS level for personal computing devices: phones, tablets and computers, maybe watches.
Is this really what’s going to kill this law? Semantics?
Yeah actually. A lot of laws get shitcanned into irrelevance due to being worded like shit on everything from the local to federal levels. That’s not even getting into conflicts with pre-existing well worded laws or the constitution as a whole.
If it’s worded badly enough it may even just be thrown out on first test due to being vague and too widely applicable. Just for example I drive a 2001 Toyota Tacoma it has an operating system because it’s got an ECU, how the actual fuck would that interact with this law? Obviously the corporate answer is to force me to get a new car but the actual practical answer is that that isn’t viable, so it’s more likely the courts just gut an entire section of the law with one case. Keep up the gutting and sooner or later it’ll end up defunct.
Yeah, that’s kind of what laws are all about
Offline computing?!
But
It feels like a Mr. Smith Goes to Washington display would solve this.
Just bring everything that has an operating system in it into the room. Cars, boats, planes, construction equipment, tractors, factories, knock off game consoles, literally every server on the internet.
Show them the ridiculousness of this and maybe we’ll get dragged out by police and charged with contempt of congress
Don’t give them even better ideas. To you it sounds ridiculous, to them it sounds like “we can ban people we don’t like from using modern technology by invalidating their age verification”
Go ahead and ban the people who are literally running the infrastructure they’re using
Will the sysadmins in Congress need to verify their age to use a server?
Will the sysadmins in Congress need to verify their age to use a server?
Yes. Yes, they will.
“Sorry, no email for your octogenarian Senator. TrumpID is down”
If my laptop is offline can I just not use it because it can’t confirm my id?
Yes. The powers at be will stop at nothing to take more, and more, and more power away from you. This is human nature.
Microsoft is probably salivating at the idea of being the only legal OS provider.
It’s like Secure Boot, but without any of those pesky self-signing workarounds.
Microsoft and Apple. The internet will only allow OSs from large American corporations.
I’d like to see the rest of the world say “fuck it” and carry on as before, leaving the Americans to censor themselves. But governments around the world are suddenly rushing to implement very similar terrible laws. It smells very coordinated.
But don’t some of these larger orgs fund Linux distros? Like Red Hat with Fedora?
But you KNOW the masses will comply because they’re told so. They don’t want to break the law…
Yeah, governments all over are trying to implement the same shit, and I agree it’s coordinated. Many governments are also looking seriously at stepping back from reliance on US big tech firms though. Not that homegrown oppression and surveillance is any better.
Meta is funding a lot of the lobbyists pushing for age verification laws. Uncoincidentally, Meta both owns a stake in a company providing identity verification as a service, and serves to benefit from not having to moderate its own platforms.
Citizens United, folks. Because nothing says “freedom of speech” like collusion, bribery, and conflicts of interest!
And meta had a pretty big chance of just getting banned from being used by minors in places around the world, so it might not work out as hoped.
Would this bill ban the use of all operating systems released before this became law? That seems unlikely.
So then how about OSs released before it became law, with patches released afterwards? That also seems unlikely.
So then how about my computer’s current OS, which is a heavily patched version of a little hobby OS called Linux, originally released in 1991?
you’ll simply not be allowed online with the device.
“But that’s unenforceable”, some will claim.
And to that, let me remind us all of a little-known concept called cryptographic attestation. If that doesn’t ring any bells, then the term “secure boot” should.
Once this shit passes into law, that’s the next step. Operating system vendors have their private keys to sign attestation tokens saying “John Johnson is an adult” and you’re only getting one if you verify your government ID. When you go to a website, your browser sends your signed token to the website and then the website checks if it’s a valid token signed by Microsoft, Apple, or Google.
But Linux?, you may be wondering. No. No Linux. Kiss it good-bye. Your bank will “require” identity attestation for “extra security”, and your bank doesn’t give a fuck about Linux. Your bank will check against whatever list of public keys they want to trust, and it ain’t going to include anything not backed by a global megacorporation.
Better yet not 1 single piece of unapproved software can run anymore. These inconvenient pieces of software that are allowing people to do all sorts of dodgy things can be removed from circulation.
It’s already the case that banks don’t allow their apps to be used on rooted phones. I can imagine a similar possibility for desktop computers. A dreadful possibility, but a possibility nonetheless.
I mean I get where you’re going with this, but I still don’t see how this effects Linux. Oh no I can’t access reddit without a government ID…cool I don’t use it anyway?
And if Lemmy or whatever else requires one then oh well, I’ll find the dozen or so forums that don’t care then
It won’t at first. If more essential websites start to unnecessarily adopt it, it will start to lock Linux users out of being able to access the services necessary to exist in modern society.
Imagine if you need age/identity verification to:
- Do banking
- Make online purchases
- File your taxes
- Book a doctor’s appointment
- Apply for a job
theoretically if it’s just web servers and apps enforcing this, then techies can move on from the web to something like gemini or gopher and adapt it to their needs
About that last sentence; the same crap is creeping in Europe at the very least. There was another press release about the eu commission iirc welcoming a similar decision in spirit. Just not implemented at OS level but web-side.
Not sure or Asia and Africa are feeling about this but unfortunately USA is not alone. which in my opinion gives credits to the various theories that it’s being pushed by gafam.
And yet another reason to abandon mercan tech.
Linus is American 🤕😭
He’s a dual citizen. He was onboard with banning Russian Linux maintainers for attacking Ukraine so they can’t sabotage the kernel.
He is however very quite on USA doing the same shit and more. 🤔
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-Russian-Devs
Let’s see if he is consistent on stopping this aggression.
Totally unenforceable. You going to prevent people from downloading open-source, noncompliant Linux from Asia or Europe? Good luck.
They can certainly try. I don’t put it past them to create a great firewall. I don’t envy whoever has to maintain those blacklists though.
Ill throw my data on an offshore vps, load my lappy up with a dummy normal looking win 11 install, and drive my ass across to Canada if it keeps getting worse.
Fuck that.
You think our morons won’t get around to this as well?
You guys lag behind in this sorta shit, I’ll have time to figure out somewhere else safe in the meantime.
I’m not living in a place that will likely punish me for the type of medicine i take and also restricts my access to get it outside of the system.
Totally unenforceable
I’d like to add, while it might be totally unenforceable, it provides a much more higher attack surface for the general populace allowing the authorities to abuse the system even further.
You going to prevent people from downloading open-source, noncompliant Linux from Asia or Europe?
That’s the real plan, I suspect.
it’s regulatory capture
I’m having a hard time understanding how this is going to keep kids safe.
I don’t even understand safe from what? Seeing titties? That is not bad and needs to be part of any growing up human, we’ve been all thru this, and we clearly see what happens to people who don’t/were banned from normal childhood. All sorts of freaks.
That’s because it is never about the children.
It helps the rich oligarchs track their child harem and broodmares and make sure nobody is infringing on their “rights” to treat people as property.
This is about protecting the entrenched players in the OS games; Microsoft, Google and Apple. The likely end play for all this is the erosion of personal computing so they can rent (and therefore control) all the compute available to you, so you don’t get uppity and think of running your own AI, which they believe will be as integral to everyday life as the internet is today.
Why would corporate billionaires and pedophile politicians want to keep kids safe? This has nothing to do with that.
Safe? Never. But it will help the pedophiles find more children online. Sickos!
The same way the next laws will keep kids safe. When you leave your front door, you will have to drop your pants so the TSA can check your asshole. It’s necessary. You know. To keep kids safe.
/s
🤦♂️🤷♂️
Assprints are as unique as irises or fingerprints, and are bigger.
