This could be that Harry Potter meme too.
Insecurity :(
This is probably the truth. Probably not root cause(that’s society, women being taught to depend on men, shows teaching women their value is in looks and not brains etc) but it’s likely the closest cause of this.
and if you interrogate where that insecurity has its roots, you will often find the answer is a society that constantly subjects women to judgement for their appearance, be that negative or positive judgement. it is simply the experience of being judged. botox, ozempic, plastic surgery, etc all becomes gender affirming care when you are femme in a society that requires femme identifying people to perform the role of disireable sexual object
the original post asks why. the original post also is why
and men have their own experiences with oppositional gaze, too, so we are clear. if you’ve ever heard the phrase “low t” applied to a man in his 30s or later, you have witnessed it
If I ever heard someone say “low t” unironically, I might laugh so hard I die.
I would not look at billboards around my state, then…
Testosterone supplements and baby wipes for men.
Baby wipes. For men. So… Just normal wipes then?
MANLY MAN WIPES
They’re mint flavored and come in a black package.
REGROW YOUR HAIR. WORK YOUR MUSCLES LIKE YOU DID WHEN YOU WERE 17 EVEN THOUGH YOU’RE 40. EAT STEAK. YOUR VALUE AS A MASCULINE MALE IS TO PERFORM AGGRESSION, NOT IN YOUR ABILITY TO GROW OUT OF THAT BEHAVIOR
They really are out there saying the ideal man is a 17 year old that actually looks 25 with brain damage huh… I guess we shouldn’t be too surprised since that’s the standard women have been held to for a long time too.
epstein class needs fuckable battle twinks
And now we have social media influencers marketing fucking 10 kinds of steroids to children. It’s insanity.
the best thing you can do to resist it i think is make sure the people in your life know you value them for them and not for their aesthetic charm. everyone tell a friend right now that you think they’re funny, or that you apprecieate their kindness, or that you value their perspective, or anything that’s based on their persona and not their physical appearance. and if you are struck by someone’s physical charm, pause, and take a moment to notice their outfit and compliment that instead. their outfit required them to make choices about their personal sense of style
I think its reasonable to bring attention to the extremely harmful act of women, who are held by society as the beauty standard, are anorexic or abusing weight loss drugs when it isn’t necessary.
We have countless studies on the ill effects idolizing women with unrealistic body standards, especially to the point they’re harming themselves to achieve them, has on women and young girls. This recent revival of the “heroine chick” beauty standard via eating disorders and GLP1 abuse is a nightmare to the psyche of women and girls, and also does damage the psyche of men and young boys for that matter.
“Heroin chic” is the fashion of looking starved and shadowed as if you’re a heroin addict.
“Heroine chick” is Supergirl
“You are my heroine! And by that I mean lady hero. I don’t want to inject you and listen to jazz”
Am I supposed to know Ariana Grande on some deep interpersonal level to realize that she looks like a walking corpse?
A fun fact about opinions is that you can keep that shit to yourself. I dont know you but I’m not gonna offer my opinion cuz no one asked. Just because we all have a soapbox doesn’t mean we gotta use it
But this is your opinion that you are sharing even though nobody asked which kind of invalidates your opinion in a way that is humorous
Not an opinion to state that you can keep your opinion to yourself
It’s my opinion that it is an opinion
I like onions.
YOU CANT DO THAT, JUST STATE THINGS ON THE INTERNET
“That’s just like your opinion man…”
A fun fact about opinions is that you can keep that shit to yourself
Good thing they didn’t offer an opinion.
Ariana Grande looks insanely unhealthy, like a skeleton, and appears to be in a health crisis with either ED or GLP1 abuse.
That isn’t an opinion, that’s a fact. She’s undeniably not naturally that bone thin, nor that inactive during her performances like she’s been recently.
Wow she responded to Lemmy
“The body that you’ve been comparing my current body to was the unhealthiest version of my body. I was on a lot of antidepressants and drinking on them and eating poorly,” she said. “[I was] at the lowest point of my life when I looked the way you consider my healthy, but that in fact wasn’t my healthy.”
(Actually April 2023)
OK all done with celebrity stuff for the month then! :) cared enough to quickly search once and accidentally found this^ but not opining
This might be shocking to learn, but someone who’s clearly going through a health crisis and is clearly extremely unhealthy due to an ED or GLP1 misuse, may actually lie about being unhealthy to get the scrutiny off of them.
Not to mention Ariana went 30+ years not looking like an actual skeleton. No way in fuck her prior body was less healthy.
No, Ariana is beyond opinion. You can literally count her ribs. I literally cringe every time I see her. It’s beyond attractive or unattractive, she simply is not healthy.
Yeah when you can see their ribcage is when I stop thinking they look good and need to get some calories in them.
Same for the “hyper shredded” men who need to drink more fluids.
Oh, wow. I hadn’t seen what she looked like in quite a while. I just looked her up, and that’s uncanny. I would bet her issue stems from the fact she became famous as a child, and feels the need to keep up that appearance. Most famous women are trying to prevent indications of aging (and failing harder than doing nothing), but that’s trying to stay looking 30s, not like a teenager.
Judging people they don’t know by their appearance.
I’ve seen WAY more women tear down other women for their appearance than men. That and the crazy online dating statistics that came out showing women judge people by their appearance way more harshly.
I don’t know if its a cultural problem or not, but people in general judge others by their appearance. Beautiful men have pretty privilege just as much as women.
I’m a dude but pretty much all the negative comments I get about my appearance come from women. The most I get from dudes occasionally is something akin to “lol, short” but mostly they compliment the fact that I work out. Women go into details about things they see wrong with me. Like I get that for women complimenting me comes with the risk that I’ll be a weirdo about it (not that I actually would) but you can just not say anything…
There’s no question that judging women by their appearance is a widespread problem, but doing expensive/unsafe medical things for the sake of appearance is also about personality.
Yes… a personality often built off the unhealthy relationship society has with women’s physical appearance. Sure, women can not care, but their lives will often unfortunately be much more difficult for it. Even accounting for the effort put into their appearance. These things are not so easily divorced in reality as they are in online discussions.
I’m not ignoring societal pressures, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your priorities. I assume you wouldn’t excuse billionaires as just participating in capitalism and doing what they’re “supposed” to do. The harm of invasive medical procedures and medications for aesthetic reasons seems like a good place to draw the line and say “you have a problem”
comparing woman and the societal struggle they are forced through just by existing is not the same as choosing to maintain an evil system of financial oppression on the working class.
this is a poor argument.
But they’re pressured into it
This is pretending like it’s all women who do this, or even all the ones who care about their appreance. It’s usually only the extremely wealthy and/or famous. Most normal women don’t see the need for these procedures, but the ones trying to be famous/popular are predisposed to thinking others will look down on them for aging.
This is it, right here. It really doesn’t matter what women do, there will be a legion of people coming out of the woodwork to disapprove. I’m hardly a transhumanist but when it comes to those small modifications to ourselves to feel more attractive, I’m all for it.
Insecurity will poison every aspect of your life
Self confidence is attractive
there are probably different reasons for many cases.
after i heard about an abusive guy making his partner tattoo his name all over her (news article in German https://www.20min.ch/story/niederlande-ex-zwang-joke-zu-250-hans-tattoos-am-ganzen-koerper-103548055 ), i think maybe some ppl make their partners do this to make sure they will not find another partner. i also remember cases where ppl fed their partners extra big portions in hopes of making them obese, so they can’t find another partner. but it’s probably not aleays the case.
maybe sometimes they are just bored and don’t care about their health and looks.
It’s her body and she gets to make the choice
I technically agree with this. If it came down to making laws about this or that, body autonomy takes priority. But I don’t think that should preclude discussion about an individual’s motivation for the modification, and whether it is healthy.
Especially since women are under constant pressure to chase unrealistic beauty expectations.
Does she now. Or is it that many women are bombarded with so much bullshit starting from so early an age that for many it is not them exercising their choice, but a bunch of assholes extracting money from them with no regards to consequences?
Because society tells attractive women our value is primarily being attractive and losing that is scary since most people aren’t willing to give up the only thing that makes them valuable
Halo effect is real, most people aren’t self aware enough to realize that they do in fact bias their judgements of others based on how attractive they find them.
When I got fat, people were assholes to me so much more often. They had no patience for me, it was crazy. I got back in shape and I’m worth courtesy and kindness again, apparently.
I’m afraid of aging in part because I’m scared to lose that basic human decency again.
You do not need to look a certain way to be worthy of respect, kindness, and love. And it’s sick that so many people are such superficial assholes.
this reminds me of a story. a friend who who underwent HRT and surgical transition early in life with support of her parents. she started dating someone in her mid 20s. he was kind, patient, and gentle to her for the first months of their relationship. then the topic of kids came up. she was upfront with him. “we’d have to adopt. i’m trans” and it was like a lightswitch turned in him. he screamed at her for tricking him and stormed out sticking her with the restaraunt bill. by all of the things that supposedly matter in society, she had done everything right. she was conventionally attractive by femme standards, her physical appearance was so in alignment with femme standards in fact that this secret chud hadn’t even realized she was trans. but still, the moment she couldn’t perform the full societal standard for what it means to be femme presenting, she was met with threats of physical violence, abandoned, and left to fulfill a responsibility that it had been pre-agreed on he would cover.
and i ask you: who tricked who? the trans woman who in 2013 didn’t want to bring up her transness until she knew she was safe, or the man who said he was an ally up until the moment someone he said he loved turned out to require even basic allyship
It’s one of the paradoxes of being trans. You tell you’re trans, “why are you making a big deal out of it, who cares, why is everyone pushing trans agenda these days”, but if you don’t tell, then you’re lying and deceiving others and you should always tell about it, everyone you interact with has the right to know!! There are no winning moves with hate
both of those sounds like a grate reason to be upfront about it with a life partner
i’d be pretty pissed if i didn’t know by the time we’re seriously talking about kids
and if someone is that dismissive about something and talking about ‘trans agenda’ now you know they are a bigot
In my experience, talking about kids on dates is something you need to get out as soon as other basic compatibility is established. It’s an immediate dealbreaker for many, and it’s a critical component of a future relationship. If your date doesn’t want kids and you do, you basically skip GO and are straight to “okay well guess we’re just friends now” or “nice knowing you”.
yep the big deal breakers should all probably air out early
vds, religion, kids, trans, politic
Because patriarchy.
That strikes me as a super cop out. People just like to be noticed and recognized and the more of it you have, the more of it you want, just like wealth.
I don’t got the gym because of unrealistic male body standards, I do it because it feels good to be noticed even after you’ve got kids and you’re happily married. It feels good to win and it feels bad to lose but if you have to lose at least you can crab bucket?
Bruh, its just as simple as that. Apply Occams Razor…
Take me down your line of thought because I don’t see how Occam’s razor applies. Everyone likes to be perceived as attractive or MORE attractive. It’s not just women who take GLP-1s or get plastic surgery. And it’s not just ugly people or pretty people, it’s everybody. It’s nicer to be desirable by popular standards than not. That’s not the patriarchy, that’s comparative evaluation for mate selection.
And if you’re not into that it’s fine, but everyone likes to be viewed as attractive.
I find the “bruh it’s the patriarchy” to be, frankly, pretty fucking dumb.
Im just gonna give you ine example.
I got to the gym, because it improves my health and abilities, allowing me to do more and do it longer. Because I like experiencing life, so it allows me to experience more.
You do it to get noticed. Why?
Why not?
I increase weight and duration to be able to do more or go longer than than other people which brings feelings of accomplishment. It also brings all the benefits you describe. You don’t HAVE to compete, but that doesn’t mean that people who do compete are just victims of the patriarchy, that’s an absurd take.
It’s almost like we can all do things for different reasons and you don’t have a monopoly on why people should do a thing.
You feel the need to compete for attention, because you have been told winning a competition increases your “value”…
Why do you think or feel that competing increases your value, somehow?
You feel its all just “mate selection” and Im telling that is a facet of the patriarchy…
I’m telling you I like to compete and by every metric I’m both healthier and more capable than you. I’m glad you’re working on it, but it’s not patriarchy, it’s you kind of sucking and trying to catch up. I like attention as a motivator, but many people are just more motivated than you.
Society isn’t the thing keeping you down, it’s the law of averages. And maybe youre just average like everyone else.
Most people suck. At everything. All the time. Welcome. There’s nothing wrong with that, but you’ve probably arrived.
You don’t HAVE to compete, but that doesn’t mean that people who do compete are just victims of the patriarchy, that’s an absurd take
People who do compete without a set goal (e.g. I win this cup, get the prize money and go do X that I want to do) are victims of bullshit. Was it patriarchy that cooked some particular bullshit up or not is not really the biggest question
People who do compete without a set goal (e.g. I win this cup, get the prize money and go do X that I want to do) are victims of bullshit.
That is a wild take.
To borrow from Daniel Pink’s book “Drive” which focuses on motivation theory, external motivators like money or prizes take you nowhere near as far as internal motivators. You are more likely to succeed generally and reach higher levels of performance if your motivation is intrinsic because you give that motivation to yourself and it is self-amplifying. Of course, his bent is more business-meets-academia, but I would struggle to see a world where it doesn’t also apply here. Would you just up and start a new hobby because you won the local competition?
It seems to me that by your logic you go take a karate class so you can get a black belt and then quit? Where’s the satisfaction in that? I don’t think that’s a problem of being a “victim of bullshit”, it’s about the pursuit of excellence for its own sake.
She has Graves’ disease.
That requires the hideous mods she did to her face?
She was super super pretty, even if not your type, she looked great. Wtf did she do.
She lost a shit ton of weight because of Graves’ disease.
She also had some work done, but not anything more than any other actress has generally.
People really don’t understand how hard thyroid issues will impact your body and appearance.
You are what you think about, and if you don’t control your thoughts, they control you.
I just poop and then I weigh less. And then I eat it again and I weigh the same.
You what.
That’s English, you inliterate
Every single one of these answers puts the choice on something else, other than the women’s own choice
yeah i love it when male feminists talk about women like they’re victims
you know john travolta and jim carey just completely mashed their faces in, no one going around like men have such struggles with society 😓
Becouse of you.
1). Society tells women they need to do things “preventively” to avoid becoming hideous goblins in a few years. That’s why you see 22 year olds getting Botox - they have been told they have to start paying NOW to avoid wrinkles
2). Hollywood and entertainment media have normalized unrealistic standards. And you can’t become a newcomer in that space without conforming to the employable look
3). Gossip media loves to pick apart any millimetre of fat (“Is ______ pregnant? Click to see her baby bump!”) or photo taken in bad lighting (“What is wrong with ______ ‘s health, click to see what our medical specialists have to say”). And then they love to chastise people after they give into plastic surgery (“Click to see ______’s terrible nose job, why DID she do it??”)
Billions of dollars are made making women feel shitty. Nobody is going to let that cash go because morals.
This meme is part of the system here as well.
No one in this thread is complaining about ugly women getting these procedures done. They want women to be attractive, but only on their terms.
Fuck the patriarchy. All my homies hate the patriarchy.
Yes it’s irritating that society can celebrate the good qualities of men who aren’t physically attractive (sense of humour, intelligence, kindness, etc.) but has such trouble accepting that a woman who isn’t physically attractive can have worthwhile qualities. We can’t seem to compute when a woman decides that she has other priorities.
think of these things like getting a tattoo. -It’s not done for you.
