Okay, so the CEO of Proton didn’t pass your purity test, I get it. But you know which CEOs also suck? The CEO of Google and the CEO of Microsoft. How can we expect secure and private alternatives to these ecosystems to flourish if we are constantly engaged in infighting? We will get nowhere if we reject every service that is short of perfect. Let’s keep our eyes on the bigger picture here.
Another hot take: I suspect that at least some of the hate directed at Proton is a smear campaign by some state actor who wants to see private online platforms fail.
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It’s become painfully obvious to me that people in general cannot think without binary good/bad being front and center. Proton deserves criticism and we should demand better. But I’ve encountered dozens, maybe hundreds, of users who either outright say they are as bad as Google, or want you to think that by the novel they wrote to convince you.
It seems impossible for most people to become concerned and criticize without outright damning and becoming defensive and enraged if you suggest not doing that. You cannot even suggest something completely reasonable and true like “nothing is perfect” without a commenter stopping reading right there and telling you what a garbage human you are for welcoming fascists into the world. Those reactions just tell me that a lot of people are so isolated, they’d never be able to converse with a typical person, who btw has never heard of proton, signal, or any other app that is less shitty to use. Because those types of users will bite your head off for anything perceived as standing up for apps/companies/platforms they have deemed impure.
Very well said, thank you. And this culture of toxicity is not conducive to mainstream adoption of these platforms.
Yep. I feel like I suffer from binary thinking often enough but if I look at Lemmy I often get the impression that I’m one of the few people capable of avoiding that mindset. I don’t know how people survive thinking that way. I just switched to proton and it’s not fun updating your email in 100 spots. If I thought like that I literally would’ve had to repeat the process immediately again versus weighing the pros and cons and considering the possibility that things might improve. It’s possible given that the entire selling point for their customers has been somewhat rendered null or at least heading that way. The CEO could be ousted tomorrow. If I switched already what have I proven other than my supposed moral purity?
the CEO of Proton didn’t pass your purity test, I get it. But you know which CEOs also suck? The CEO of Google and the CEO of Microsoft
The CEO of Proton gave money to a dictator. And I have the same contempt and disgust towards Microsoft and Google, that’s why I haven’t used their products for years.
There are already private alternatives to Proton. It was one of the first to sell some privacy, but not anymore. It’s also not a smear campaign IMHO, we know the facts, we can judge for ourselves. Proton is targeted towards privacy-conscious nerds who can and will check the alternatives. It’s easy to see that Proton is not the best choice anymore.
What money are you referring to? I remember he made some positive comments about republicans a while back but didn’t hear about any money changing hands.
By dictator do you mean Trump? I absolutely do not like Trump (I’m in Canada and he started a trade war with our country and wants to annex us. We all hate him!). That said he is not a dictator. He was democratically elected. Calling him a dictator takes the agency away from the American people. It makes it seem like they are all passive victims rather than the ones that caused this shit show, but they did cause it, so I won’t like them off that easy.
And bribery seems to be part of the game in the US unfortunately. Do you think he gave Trump money because he likes the guy? In all likelihood he was just playing the game that every tech CEO is playing and looking out for his own best interests. Especially when the US gov is already so hostile to private online platforms already as is, can you really blame him?
Calling him a dictator takes the agency away from the American people. It makes it seem like they are all passive victims.
Does the half century of billionaire capture of regulatory institutions, politicians, courts, and media outlets mean nothing to you?
Yeah, because the Americans allowed it to happen. Spare me the pity party. The French are rioting on the streets over an increase in the price of stinky cheese while the Americans will just roll over when ICE kidnaps their neighbours and act like they are helpless victims. Give me a fucking break
you know what other dictators were democratically elected? basically all of them.
I know Hitler (for example) was elected but he suspended elections in Germany. Literally name one dictator that hasn’t suspended democratic processes.
orban, kim, putin, lukashenko, ceaușesku…
Are you suggesting that none of these people have interfered with the democratic processes in their respective countries? Because that is false. Log out and read a book buddy
are you suggesting trump hasn’t? i’m just using your criteria to answer your questions, my guy. calm down.
’m just using your criteria to answer your questions
No, you aren’t.
are you suggesting trump hasn’t?
Yeah, I am. The Dems just crushed hm last night. Do you think he rigged that election? Get serious.
can you really blame him?
Yes I can. “I’m only doing my job” without using your brain is not an excuse anymore. And yes Trump is a dictator who invaded countries and even kidnapped a foreign president. He’s also got his own gestapo and boot lickers.
It’s not a game, it’s a bribe given by a foreign company which makes it worse. You cannot really say “I will participate in this corruption game because Americans are stupid,” it’s immoral.
And yes Trump is a dictator who invaded countries and even kidnapped a foreign president.
None of that’s got anything to do with the definition of a dictator, tbh. He’s TRYING to be one, but as the current midterms show he’s not there yet. Hopefully ever.
And yes Trump is a dictator
You are not a serious person. Dictator != bad leader. So long as Trump was democratically elected he is not a dictator. I’m not sure if you’re American but if you are, please take more responsibility for your countries electoral choices.
It’s not a game
You’re right it’s not a game, it’s a fight for survival. Encrypted services are being attacked in the EU, Australia, Canada, India, China, and the US. The CEO is trying to do what he can to keep his company afloat before some stupid anti-encryption prevents him from accessing his biggest consumer base. Is a bribe playing dirty? Sure. But the other team is also playing dirty
So long as Trump was democratically elected he is not a dictator.
So long as Trump was democratically elected he is not a dictator.
Lmfao. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, the three most (in)famous dictators in history, were all “democratically” elected. So was Putin, Ghadaffi, Orban, and Hussein, and those are just off the top of my head.
Read a fucking book dude.
Yeah and what happened to elections once they came to power?
oh you jumped off of our conversation but kept going at the exact same topic here? cool
Dictator != bad leader
Trump has created his own gestapo.
Adolph Hitler was also democratically elected, and yet we all agree that he was a dictator.
No he wasn’t. Hitler lost his election, got appointed, then usurped power.
“I’m going to uproot my workflow and make my life harder by migrating to another service or array of services to avoid giving money to people who don’t share my ideals.”
Barbara Walters: “You’re damaging an entire industry.”
Hot take. Proton provides a false sense of security to it’s users. Anyone worrying about proton now was never serious about security in the first place.
So you’re entire argument is “what about ___?”
If only there were a term for such a logical fallacy
How do you think Google and Microsoft got that way? Unchecked leadership. People are up in arms not because they don’t see value in what Proton has done for the ecosystem, but for the very reason.
Well…
Security is serious. If there’s evidence Proton executives are suffering from AI Psychosis, that is a threat to the platform’s security, and we won’t find out until it’s too late.
That is an unacceptable risk.
But that aside (let’s say for using Proton as a less sensitive email/service)… I agree.
In that sense, it’s like Linux. People raised an absolute fuss over the kernel’s LLM policy, accusing Torvalds of all sorts of things, and guess what? Linux hasn’t changed one bit.
For low security usage, I’m willing to wait until problems actually show up in Proton’s software, to support a competitor to Google/MS with serious critical mass, and hope their leadership is changed, as clearly many employees there are doing good work.
Fuck em all.
Smh my head
I don’t really appreciate your take that this is simply a case of one little guy failing a purity test. Maybe you need to consider the reasons why people use Proton in the first place, I’d argue it’s not just because they are not google or microsoft.
People are seeking secure, trustworthy services that are worth spending actual money on. Andy Yen’s comments, both internal and external, and the direction he wants to take the company in are, to many, at odds with the supposed code of ethics that attracted them in the first place.
So, if a company insists on having a CEO (at all, I would say, but especially one like Yen) that takes the company in a different direction, I think customers have every right to quit. And whine, because of the wasted time and effort they put into that company.
Raising criticism of the actions of one company’s CEO is not an attack on all privacy-centered platforms. Besides, many of those who are criticizing Proton joined in the first place because they wanted to escape the Google and Microsoft ecosystems. I don’t think anyone is arguing that Proton is the worst of these three options or trying to push users back to Google or Microsoft, and there are other providers beyond these three to consider.
My hot take: people aren’t hard enough on Proton
People choose proton for security. Handing it over to AI is a huge security risk. Do you see the problem? They’re not providing the service they promised.
IKR! Its like trump. I mean. Is he reeeaaallly worse than hitler?
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