I’ll just tell that to my brother in law who just got released from ICE custody. Like I know this picture is probably true for Gaza, but it isn’t for many of my neighbors and family.
Kids are still in Cages. Biden just kinda forgot to release them once he got elected. I bet you have already forgotten Trump I.
The Democrats have consistently expanded ICE
Wait until you find out Obama deported twice as many immigrants(could be just Mexicans, I can’t remember) as Trump did. Or when you find out Obama dropped more bombs on Muslim countries than Trump. Or that Hillary raised twice as much money from corporations in ‘16 than Trump (same with Harris in’ 24)
It is also true people benefited from Obama’s DACA program. This isn’t a simple trolley problem let alone a single track
The difference is method, not end result.
The main purposes of DACA was to get immigrants to “come out of the shadows” and have individuals self-report and turn themselves in, in exchange for temporary benifits to, primarily, their children. As stated at the time:
“Deferred action is not a pathway to citizenship. It is not legal status. It simply says that for three years, you are not a law enforcement priority and are not going to go after you, It is temporary and it is revocable.”
It was part of a series of incredibly smart, effective and efficient moves which resulted in record high deportations without needing a bunch of jackbooted thugs cracking skulls in the street.
For a while. Now we’re in the “jackbooted thugs” phase which is less efficient, but plays better with the base it’s trying to appease. It’s less efficient and less people are getting deported overall, which is good. But the majority of those are switching from self-deportations to direct expulsions which are getting increasingly violent, a process that started back in 2021.
It went over your head didn’t it. When he is taking about ice he is talking about erosion of law and norms. Ice has always been a thing but they were not like this.
But go on.
Always is a stretch. Since 2003 during the Patriot Act days.
Obama put priority on criminals, hands and terrorist activities and didn’t remove due process. The people deported had trials in criminal courts.
The J6 people involved go after eat targets, getting food vendors off the street, raiding Home Depot parking lots, car washes etc
Like when Obama drone struck that 16 year old American kid, and when someone in his administration was asked about it, he said that he should’ve had a better father? Yes, he was the son of a known terrorist. But to be fair, Trumps first military raid as president killed his sister, an 8 year old American girl, which Obama refused that mission(maybe twice, don’t quote me on that). Or when Jim Carry had that drawing of a school bus full of children that were bombed and killed, and it was under Obama. Those terrorists?
To mods:
How my comment was breaking this rule: “1. Be civil and nice”? Who did I insult?
Perhaps you need a third rule: “3. Don’t post anything that goes against Russian and Chinese propaganda”
OK nvm, I just looked at the post. Seems like somebody on their side went a little haywire and removed a ton of comments. Now I’m offended that mine stayed up. I’m always such a ray of fucking sunshine.
Hmm I also don’t remember anything offensive? To be clear, I didn’t report, but at least it’s good to know if/when I decide to switch instances, won’t be to that one.
Obama drone struck that 16 year old American kid, and when someone in his administration was asked about it, he said that he should’ve had a better father
Oh boy the irony
Really takes you back to the outrage when Trump said “We have to take out their families”
Yeah! Let’s all vote mauve! That’s an option right? Teal? Aquamarine? So many choices!
In Poland last election saw 17 parties and 43 independents in sejm, but all of them are neoliberal fash ghouls.
You can only choose the flavours they “allow”
That was exactly my point, furthest left mainstream politician in Poland is Adrian Zandberg who is imperialist succdem and only split from the main den of succ because they ratfucked his sect on loot divide. There is not a single socialist to vote and wasn’t for years.
Furthermore: how many different parties are in the EU? How many EU countries are rising GDP expenditure in military to 5%? Democracy under capitalism is an illusion
Tankies love Trump
You don’t give a shit about anyone but yourself
We have three mainstream parties. Works with that too.
Even if I (non-us citizen) agree with the sentiment, I still think OP is a POS. Why? Check his profile. Fucking russian apologist.
.ml
What did you expect?
“Both sides” idiocy.
The GOP is full of fascists, KKK, white supremacists, religious fundamentalists and anti-science pieces of shit. There is no way to redeem them.
The Democrats are a mixture of economic conservative socialists liberals, and socialists. There is a chance to fix it.
The socialists are the minority because the economic conservatives are corrupt and very well funded by billionaire Democrats and Republicans making them an effective controlled opposition.
“Economic conservatives” AKA
There are no socialists in any position of power in the democratic party, you are delusional
People that believe in socialism are socialists. They don’t have to label themselves that way.
Americans are so brainwashed to be afraid of certain labels that they will do everything that the label is but will still claim that the label is bad.
People that believe in socialism are not given positions of power by the democratic party
I agree.
They have to win elections and they have to fight from within. AOC and the squad have been dealing with that since day one.
That’s my point. People that actually believe in fighting corruption can win elections in the Democratic Party. We need more people around the country to primary the centrists everywhere and work hard for the people.
I think It is hard for elections to push any reform. And that is for countries with actual democracy.
Socialism can only be achieved by non democratic methods
We already have socialism in the US. We have a mixed system. The issue is how mixed we want it to be and what specific policies would be the most effective at improving the lives of Americans.
Examples- Social Security, Medicare, Infrastructure, Fire protection, Police, national parks
Yes exactly! Socialism is when government does stuff, anarchism is when it does nothing, fascism is when he does but shouting and communism is when we do it all together holding hands.
We already have socialism in the US
SOCIALISM IS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DOES STUFF
ICE is socialism guys
They have to win elections and they have to fight from within.
Wait everyone! Don’t you see? If we join the Nazis we can change them from within!
All I see is goofy smug trolling and zero solutions. Give us some solutions.
Death to USA.
Here’s one: study insurgencies that managed to hold off and/or beat the US and get ready to apply those tactics because that time is coming. Best get to networking too.
No socialist would ever join the Democratic Party. Call themselves what they want.
There are no people who believe in socialism in any positions of post in the democratic party.
"Both sides
There is one side, the omnicidal rich imperialist side, and it wears two faces to fool people like you.
Go vote for the Green Party or whatever else Russia is pushing.
Yer yappin at a member of the PSL, baby
“Democrats aren’t fascist! Anyone who opposes us is a foreign agent though!”
One thing all seppos agree on: blame the foreigner. The thing they disagree on is which foreigner to blame.
good try igor we know you’re currently hanging in the lubjanka shoving caviar and drinking vodka :3
:sicko-wistful: except for the caviar, since I’m vegan
Vegan caviar it is.
I dont even know if I’m still allowed to say that in the EU lmao.
Yeah stupid consumers drinking scouring milk… need to protect them from themselves…
Five minutes ago I saw discussion about a Democratic candidate, who was a Blackwater merc, Abu Ghraib guard and has a Totenkopf tattoo. Both parties are full of fascists.
“both sides are the same” - never the smartest person in class
Going to accuse him of being an evil ruskie next?
American parties play “good cop and bad cop” routine. They are not the same, but they work together to the same ends.
“We have to vote for the blue genociders because they’re different somehow from the red genociders, I am smarter than you btw”
Yours is the opinion of an intellectually lazy coward who will later lie and swear they had no idea what was happening in the camps.
To be fair, that’s pretty much the ancestry of West Germany. Well, that and all the Nazis who got a great big beautiful American bailout.
Tbf this is more post 1970s West Germany. Before that it was “Akshually I wasnt a true nazi, I merely joined due to muh evul soviet union who wanted to destroy Christianity!!”
They both serve capital at the expense of the working class. They arent the same exactly but they’re on the same side.
They both serve capital but one is fully captured while the other is fighting back but it is still well below the 50% needed to be able to redirect the party back to FDR ideals just without the 1940s racism.
Do you really think that the intersection of 40s racism and FDR ideals (for white people) is a complete coincidence? That there was absolutely nothing else happening at that time related to the US being able to sustain higher living standards for the working class?
You clearly are not educated enough on this topic to have an in-depth conversation. That’s not an attack on your character, but you really should consider learning more.
And before you say I haven’t provided solutions, real solutions & real change require theory and practice. It’s not easy and you will have a gut reaction to reject it because you are kept comfortable by the spoils of imperialism. This is why most people choose to not waste their time engaging with you and instead post memes. I have spent 30 minutes of my real life typing out a message that will likely not convince you of anything given what I’ve seen of your other responses.
If you actually want to fight for a better future then I’d be happy to provide you resources to learn more.
Genocide denier
Ok then, what should people do? Easy to criticize, but hard to find answers.
Help the axis of resistance fight the west.
Organize your locality, get involved with local politics start a communal garden, do literally anything more than just vote
Join PSL and DSA and do not vote until they follow through with demands, both sides continue genocide and war on a grand scale
This does nothing but help the GOP, who are openly bragging about installing a dictator.
This assumes the USA is a democracy at the federal level. Where votes by people matter.
Many states use election machines, owned by oligarchs, whose operations are a closed book and are not regulated. Coincidentally those states, both red and blue, fail tests approved by the United Nations to detect tampering of votes.
Those states make the other states, that actually pass the tests, irrelevant.
What makes democracy, in the USA, unable to curb the even the very gross problems today is not the people doing the cheating.
But it is the people who refuse to call the cheating out (by addressing the real issues), and more important the majority of citizens who absolutely do not see this as a problem. It’s only when this is addressed can the actual issues of a real democracy be looked at.
Even then, real reform is hard to do in a democracy. Especially one so large and out of control as the nation we see now. So any reform has to be not using the ballot box.
A boycott actually could help.
They do not care if you do not vote. Actually getting you not to vote is their stated goal and they have spent decades and millions of dollars specifically trying to make it harder for you to vote.
Republican efforts to suppress voting and the democrat “get out the vote” initiatives have much in common.
In some states voting matters, in most it does not. And federally it does not.
Seen in this context both efforts are a type of grifting and scam. No different than other political rabble rousing.
Pretensions USA is a democracy makes reform that much harder. And both parties do this well
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both, but if you’re forced to choose between oatmeal with bugs in it and a shit sandwich, you don’t huff and protest the vote, because turn your Definitely eat a shit sandwich.
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
The fact that there’s no discernible difference between the parties (or, worse, that Trump rhetorically can outflank Dems from the popular left) should cause Democrats to soul-search and come back with a better political strategy. Instead, we just get this dogmatic insistence that Liz Cheney and Michael Bloomberg are better options than Donald Trump, so you have to go pound pavement in the 100° weather knocking doors, begging friends and neighbors over the phone, and dipping into your kids’ college funds to “donate till it hurts” in an effort to get them elected.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both
It clearly is not. That’s the fucking problem. Telling people “go eat dogshit because its tastier than horseshit” and then bitching when your shit stand can’t break even is the root of the problem.
Time and time and time again, liberal Democrats run away from the popular candidates in favor of the candidates that can raise the most money. Time and time and time again, these candidates lose to Republicans who are raising money from the exact same evil assholes.
And when we finally fucking see a populist start winning in a bright blue city like NYC, you get the liberal media leadership saying this shit on national television.
Bill Maher raises concerns over Mamdani’s Ugandan citizenship on ‘Real Time’
It’s Birtherism all over again.
Man, reading comprehension is none of your strong points is it. I won’t waste too much time, but if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent you weren’t worth talking to in the first place.
if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent
Obviously they’re different. One’s got a big “D” next to her name and climbed into her California Senate seat through Jerry Brown’s bed sheets. The other one was a billionaire mega-donor to Hillary Clinton’s Senatorial and Presidential Primary campaigns, and hung out with her husband on trips down to Epstein Island. Also he became a Republican a few weeks after Obama won the Presidency.
And I imagine if I was as full of and sure of myself as you I’d also spout this kind of nonsense which, rather obviously, fails to answer the question.
If Harris were president right now, would we have gestapo roaming the streets, or Nazi ghouls mentioning plenary authority? How many felony’s is Harris currently carrying, is she an adjudicated rapist?
It’s like all it takes to counter your bullshit is eyes and ears.
I know you won’t answer the question and you’ll go off on some other tangent, as long as you know in your heart you’re spouting bullshit.
You’re not “forced” to do anything.
There are 3rd parties as always. You can find reasons and excuses not to vote for them but that’s all on you.
Glad you ended up with Trump.
Fascists and fascist-lite voters deserve it.What a juvenile take that doesn’t take into account reality at all. From Reddit are you? Go back.
right simpleton.
Go back to your interpretative dance with kibbutz Bernie
The problem here is structural. For president especially a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler. It’s less so if they can win for the house or senate. I would whole heartedly agree with you if the Us had a parliamentary or ranked choice. But we don’t and until we do; with the demo crates it’s a slightly more likely, then just vote for the least fascist that has a chance to win. Use your 3rd party vote in the primaries.
a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler.
And there we go with the excuses.
In non-banana republics with a normal political landscape and populations with spines there have been parties and candidates scoring 1-2 percent, then 10, then 60. Or the other way.
That’s how elections work, and nobody of those initial 1-2% voters gave up.
Since outside the US, nobody propagates that defeatist BS.But OC, this election is “the most important election in history and in our lifetime” so now is not the time to rdo such crazy things as not vote for a duopoly you supposedly don’t like but have since the beginning of your miserable country.
You have only yourself to blame and deserve zero sympathy.
On the contrary.
You’re like an arsonist that constantly burns houses and now cries because he managed to set his own home on fire.
Well burn baby burn.The US Empire will never pass ranked choice voting in a manner that allows for systemic change. The point of the political system is to perpetuate the economic system, and fixing the problems with society requires advancing to socialism and leaving capitalism behind.
Both are shit sandwiches. Trying to use analogy to obfuscate willing participation in genocide, perpetuation of imperialism, brutalization of immigrants, etc doesn’t actually erase material reality.
Organize.
Yup, they’re both the same thing, as long as you ignore the evidence of your eyes, ears and heart.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
It’s almost like 2 genocidal fascists can’t be considered “good” to begin with.
It’s almost like ignoring everything about a person except 1 aspect of them makes you too ignorant to talk about it.
Go back to Reddit where your lack of critical thinking skills will help you fit in.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else, and as such they share far more in common than not. I’m not ignorant, and you can take your faux-superiority back. I’ve been here far longer than you have, telling me to go back to Reddit doesn’t make any sense. I’m a communist, the devs are communists, and a lot of communists are on Lemmy after various subreddits like r/GenZedong, r/TheDeprogram, and r/ChapoTrapHouse got banned. What I say fits in here.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else,
Hardly. Democrats made it clear that they care about netanyahu’s political career above all else.
The purpose of supporting Israel is so that it secures US interests in the region.
I’m not pretending America is the best country, or Harris would be the best for the world.
I have 0 interest in Defending her, but claiming they’re the same with a straight face is fucking laughable. America would be a better country internally and on the global stage with her in charge, by any metric that isn’t “burn all capitalism down”.
Here’s an easy one - would Harris have sent a citizen to CECOT without a trial? Obviously not, because she’s demonstrably different from Trump, like any 3 year old could determine.
She sent a transwoman to mens prison, who got raped and joked about it.
You’re pathetically trying to defend this evil ghoul:Under her jurisdiction, in “progressive” San Francisco, 56% of all inmates in SF jails were black, along with 40% of all arrests (Only 5.8% of the population is black). Ignores police brutality, protected 14 of her officers who were caught sending extremely racist text messages. Oversaw San Francisco’s felony conviction rate rising from 52% to 67% in only 3 years.
As part of her tough on crime approach she assigned senior prosecutors to misdemeanors like graffiti and vandalism, tripling the number of cases brought to trial. After a federal judge orders California to expand prison releases to reduce crowding, her office argued in court that if forced to release these inmates early, prisons would lose an important labor pool. Spent years jailing disproportionately black nonviolent cannabis users while opposing taking cannabis off DEA’s list of most dangerous substances and literally laughing at the idea of legalizing it multiple times, even as her Republican opponent ran to the left of her on the issue. She then tried to pander by admitting to smoking herself despite prosecuting others, but got her story all wrong. Drug convictions under her office soared, convicting more people of marijuana possession than her predecessor (she also admitted to smoking marijuana) 2 Laughs about threatening parents with jailtime for truancy. 2. The stories of several mothers she jailed. Pushed a law that forced schools to turn over undocumented students to ICE. Opposed reforming California’s three-strikes law, which is the only one in the country to impose life sentences for minor felonies and incarcerates black people at 12x the rate as white people, three different times, even while her Republican opponent supported reform. Tried to deny a transgender inmate healthcare and endangered trans women by forcing them into mens prisons, leading to the rape and torture of at least one trans inmate. Appealed a judge ruling that the death penalty was unconstitutional and won on a technicality, resulting in continued executions. Supports the controversial DNA search technique that can be used on people even if they’ve not been charged with a crime. Supported the discriminatory practice of cash bail in court, until 2016. Protected serial child rapists by refusing to prosecute in the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal. Lied about her state’s solitary confinement to block a suit by inmates, claiming there was none in California when there were about 6,400 victims of the practice, which is considered torture. Opposed legislation that would require independent investigation of fatal police shootings despite criticism from many civil rights advocates including California’s Legislative Black Caucus. Opposed statewide implementation of police body cameras and ignored police brutality, multiple officers raping a teenager, and other officers sharing racist and homophobic messages, despite multiple requests from the public defender. Stood by silently as $730 million was spent on moving inmates to for-profit private prisons.And as cherry on the cake fully complicit in a horrible genocide, and you want to claim she would hypothetically be better in the future? LOL
You really disgust me. You are not better but worse.
It’s the hypocrisy that bothers me most, at least one side has the balls to say they’re fascists.
Unlike you cowardly worms pretending to be good while being absolute scum.
Hope you all get slow cancer.The US Empire is the world’s worst country. It’s the biggest exporter of genocide and terror, and the world’s biggest plunderer. Harris would maintain that exact same brutal system, domestically and internationally. It’s not hard to be better than them. Yes, Harris would send people to CECOT without trial, every imperialist president has done acts like that.
Chill out with the calling everyone to your left a child or a Russian bot, etc. It’s the peak of liberalism.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
No one’s buying that democrats are “the good” anymore. They’re not even “the adequate.”
Libs are almost pathologically reliant on analogies even in the simplest of scenarios because talking about things as they really are is often indefensible and would necessitate saying the most ghoulish and monstrous shit
Yep, it’s all smoke and mirrors.
Kinda crazy how democrats now are just like: “Yeah, I eat a plate of shit. I don’t like it, but they told me that was the only option. So I did it, I’m proud of it, and anyone else should be ashamed to not be eating shit like me.”
Democrats are the oatmeal with bugs in it,Trump is the shit sandwich - clarifying on the off chance you’re just confused and not willfully ignorant.
And they’re only pretending that they don’t like the taste.
Nah it is more like. We all have been eating shit but majority thought it is steak. Lets all eat super mega shit so that majority will start to recognize.
It’s kind of funny, that democrats would rather eat bug infested cereals over a shit sandwich, when they could also push for cereals to be actually clean.
Tells you a lot about those people.
If you make me eat shit or cockroaches, I’d rather leave, thanks.
not everyone wants to me a Marxist
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
Democrats needed to do more to differentiate themselves. But they’re still stuck in 1992 and think that if they just triangulate with fascists and treat their own base as hostages, that they’re entitled to victory.
Karl Marx said:
The relationship of the revolutionary workers’ party to the petty-bourgeois democrats is this: it cooperates with them against the party which they aim to overthrow; it opposes them wherever they wish to secure their own position.
What that means in the American system is we vote against liberals in the primaries, and we vote for them against the fascists. America doesn’t have ranked choice voting, but voting socialist in the primaries and left (out of the two candidates presented) in the generals is the closest approximation. This is the Karl Marx approved strategy, as you can see from his speech to the Communist League.
Now let’s talk about this meme. It’s fake news. There was no Alligator Auschwitz under the Democrats. Guantanamo Bay wasn’t a concentration camp for immigrants under the Democrats. I submit that the Democrats are at least 1% better than the Republicans, and that this proves the meme is fake news. And if anyone replies to this comment and says well 1% isn’t good enough, I’m going to accuse you of moving the goalposts, because this meme says colour is the only difference. The meme doesn’t say 1% less people get run over by the trolley, and I think there are at least 1% fewer state caused deaths under the Democrats.
I submit that the Democrats are at least 1% better than the Republicans, and that this proves the meme is fake news.
You can’t just state something as fact and not show your work. You are making a claim it’s up to you to support it. You can’t just go around saying “I’m right unless you prove the negative”.
You have not placed any goalposts to begin with, what is your definition of “better”? By what metric are you using? What do you mean by “under the Democrats”?
How about we define “better” as “death rate per capita within immigration detention centers”? And “under the Democrats/Republicans” as “who holds the executive branch”? We should see an increase during the Bush years, when ICE was first created, a decrease during the Obama years, followed by an increase during Trump’s first term, decrease during Biden, and increase under Trump’s second term right?
Is that what happened?
If you don’t like my attempt at making your claim falsifiable, which I suspect you won’t; especially when you see the results, feel free to redefine your lose language into something else rigid and falsifiable. Set those goalposts.
No, you vote in a way that gives you power. Voting blue no matter who loses power. See 2020.
What that means in the American system is we vote against liberals in the primaries, and we vote for them against the fascists.
The democrats are also funding this genocide:
There was no Alligator Auschwitz under the Democrats.
The democrats expanded these immigrant prison camps. Some stats from the Obama era:
- Deported over 3M immigrants during his presidency, 2 Deported over 400k people in 2012 alone. Helped grow ICE, and the US mass immigrant detention system.
- In the present day, ICE (U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement), the police tasked with immigration enforcement, operates over 500 prison camps, holding over 34,000 undocumented people deemed “aliens”, 20,000 of which have no criminal convictions, in the US system of immigration detention. The camps include forced labor (often with contracts from private companies), poor conditions, lack of rights (since the undocumented aren’t considered citizens), and forced deportations, often splitting up families. Detainees are often held for a year without trial, with antiquated court procedures pushing back court dates for months, encouraging many to accept immediate deportation in the hopes of being able to return faster than the court can reach a decision, but forfeiting legal status, in a cruel system of coercion. After the creation of DHS and ICE, the budget for immigration enforcement doubled from $6.2 billion in 2002 to $12.5 billion in 2006 under Obama. 1, 2,3
Guantanamo Bay wasn’t a concentration camp for immigrants under the Democrats.
The democrats didn’t close their torture camp in Cuba either.
If you go to university and do any kind of field that involves essay writing, you’ll learn to use a thesis statement to summarise your argument so people know what you’re arguing for. You’ve provided some evidence, but it’s entirely unclear what your position is in this conversation other than “the democrats do bad things sometimes”. If your entire position is “the democrats do bad things sometimes”, then great job! We’re all very proud of you for proving the democrats do bad things sometimes. Now go do your fucking job developing the Lemmy software, because this software is full of issues and the grownups are talking about important issues that actually have a point.
Now go do your fucking job developing the Lemmy software, because this software is full of issues and the grownups are talking about important issues that actually have a point.
Leaving this comment up to show the titanic levels of entitlement and arrogance from the anti-communist crowd.
Even open source devs only exist to do free labor for them, we’re not people to them.
How dare you develop software which won’t automatically ban communists
- Deported over 3M immigrants during his presidency, 2 Deported over 400k people in 2012 alone. Helped grow ICE, and the US mass immigrant detention system.
Remember that time that a democratic government went full on fascist and bankrupt the US? No? Interesting…
Yeah, the two party system is terrible, and democrats are no saints. But they are not fascists who bankrupt the country, so it absolutely matters.
I don’t give a shit about " bankrupting the US!". It literally prints it’s own money. But I sure as shit do remember Democrats going full fascist and participating in the modern Holocaust.
democrats are no saints.
By which you mean they’re genocidal monsters.
Is committing genocide not a fascist act?
-
No, governments of all varieties commit genocides. Words mean things, fascism is a specific political ideology, not every genocidal regime is also fascist.
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What genocide did Democrats commit? Aid and abet, sure, and that’s obviously a problem. But they’re not doing the genocide themselves.
Again, not saying the bipartisan unconditional support of Israel is acceptable.
God, how much is a sniveling little toad do you have to be to engage in that kind of nit picking semantics about genocide.
Fascism provides a specific permission structure for genocide that isn’t present in other systems. That’s not to say genocide didn’t happen before the term was coined, but that the characteristics of fascism; nationalism, racial supremacy, military supremacy, victim complex, out groups, scapegoating, disdain for human rights, etc.; tend to be present anywhere that genocide is present, and genocide doesn’t just happen because some “genocidal regime” found its way into power.
Whether or not you need the people’s permission to make the policy, you need their permission for it to stand because ultimately you need the people in order to carry it out. Otherwise you undermine your own system and generally incite resistance against it.
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They just do nothing to stop the fascists when they have power and do everything they can to compromise with them.
If there’s one lesson to be learned this year, it’s that politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism.
Great hero of the people: Neville Chamberlain
If you had to choose between Neville Chamberlain and Hitler?
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us; rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us
Agreed
rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Nah that’s dumb. I don’t give a shit about “treating the system as legitimate”. The system is what it is, and it will continue to be the system until it isn’t anymore. That’s gonna take more than a handful of people refusing to acknowledge the system’s “legitimacy”.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
It is doing that though. You get the option to vote for which of the two cups they force feed you, and everyone else. We are not presently in a position to throw anything back right now. When we are, I’m all for it. But part of that is choosing the smaller cup of shit while we gather strength.
The point is I’m not going to lend you any legitimacy by picking up the shit and eating it myself, then turning at the people around me and asking why they aren’t eating it yet. I’m going to make it impossible for the shit peddler to hide their willingness and ability to abuse their power. If I’m eating shit either way, why would I do it in a way that makes it apparent to outsiders that I’m choosing to eat shit?
And no, when you scold people for not participating in a system, you are not just not “refusing to acknowledge its legitimacy”. You are promoting it, whether you care to or not. You are promoting the idea that everyone is choosing these options out of complete and true support of complete and unbiased information. This is especially true when people like you misrepresent and refuse to understand the arguments of those who choose to abstain or vote third party.
You are saying, “if you participate in this system, you could change the way things are going; and if you don’t, then you implicitly consent to it”, which is simply not true. Interestingly enough, you know how little power a person has when acting as an individual, which is why you minimize the reach of individuals when it comes to forms of political action other than voting, but you never apply it to the situation of voting where the ruling class has vast numbers of ways to influence people’s behaviors in whatever direction they want.
The change can only come when we have built the ability to move cohesively as a class, or a voting bloc if you will, that can either take power for itself or force our leaders to come to our table if they want our compliance. We can only build this by overcoming the resentment we hold for other members of our class, and putting one foot in front of the other; turning one person at a time towards the inner workings of the machine that the ruling class works so hard to hide. Not by stoking resentment and wasting our energy trying to manipulate an illegitimate system while we wait around for the movement to build itself.
More like choosing between Hindenburg and Hitler.
What’s the actual difference? You end up at the same place with either one.
Says who? Yeah, the Dems are filthy neolibs, but all they really care about is money and influence. They’re rainbow capitalists.
The other is literally based on hate and fear, they might actually care about building a christo-nationalist ethnostate more than money.
They certainly have some goals in common, but even compromise isn’t going to the same place.
They’re rainbow capitalists.
They are rainbow capitalist because of former material conditions. Besides bombing the Middle East because of alleged inherent homophobia and steal their oil or bombing the Middle East because they are slur and steal their oil - is in the end a matter of rhetoric only.
but all they really care about is money and influence.
Correct.
That is why they maintain American imperialism.
Such as funding a genocide in the middle east.
Exactly. They fund genocide because it’s politically expedient. The opposition funds genocide because they love killing brown people
It’s conceivable to convince one side that genocide is no longer politically favorable. You’re never going to convince the other side to stop wanting to kill brown people. There is no third option with prospects to win.
You cannot convince the rich and powerful that it’s politically unfavourable when it’s economically favourable to do genocide.
They don’t care about what people want. They care about what they want, and that’s US imperialism.
This feels like trying to explain to someone that you can have 2 different infinities, and one is larger than the other. Both are bad, but one is clearly worse.
“What’s the difference if you end up at the same place?”
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide. It is reasonable to criticize the people supporting a genocide while at the same time recognizing that the people wanting more genocides are not the same.
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide.
How do you find yourself typing something like this and not pause for thought?
What’s worse than genocide?
2 genocides.
I don’t know how to make this any more clear.
Hell yeah brother. Personally I think Hitler was fucking great and would vote for him in a heartbeat if it meant stopping Himmler from being in charge. /s
Seriously, how do you not pause for thought typing that out?
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide.
You are already a fascist. You have already approved the genocide of a nation for the sake of what? Saving minorities in America? Guess what you will send them straight to the furnace the moment they become “expedient” to sacrifice for your own gain.
The first they came for poem comes to mind.
The only real difference is that there are consequences for you at home in the US and that’s the only part you actually care about
And a million dead kids because Trump killed usaid but go off I guess.
“But what about the american children” like I said
I don’t live in the US, there are no consequences for me as a result of Trump being president. Significantly more people are being harmed under Trump and I actually give a shit about other people instead of putting some idealized moral high ground above actual human lives.
Zero genocide isn’t an idealised moral high ground and it’s incredibly telling to see someone excuse it.
People were being harmed under Biden, our foreign and domestic policy has consequences for the vast majority of the world, you’re either a moron or lying
politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism
the paradox of tolerance, ever heard of it?
Yup. Ever heard of Duverger"s Law?
I’m sympathetic to your argument, but ultimately they absolutely are fascist. If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian. There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
We can’t keep accepting the lesser evil indefinitely. When you brush off the serious issues in the Democratic party with language like “no saints” you make it look like that’s exactly what you intend for the country to do. I mean “politicians will be politicians”. That’s not convincing anymore.
If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian.
Just to clarify this to others:
There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
That part is important. I hear you about “the lesser evil” but if you’re response to resisting a lesser evil results in a faster, accelerated evil then you have contributed to a much greater harm. If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
Biden was in power when the genocide started and during most of it. He had the power to stop it and didn’t. So there’s your answer.
So the Genocide hasn’t accelerated under Trump as OP claimed?
No. It continued at the same rate. It is a nonsensical argument anyways. Biden could have stopped it but chose to pass it on to Trump.
Okay, don’t vote for Biden then.
Swapping faces changes nothing. The rot starts with the DNC and without a formal apology for enabling the genocide, the party is dead to me just like the Republicans. Two corpses fighting it out and I am not into necrophilia.
To put it differently, if they are the proximate cause of the Trump presidency, then you are the ultimate cause. I throw up my hands at trying to decide which matters more.
That’s the part where I’m sympathetic to your argument. I think anyone not voting for Harris made a mistake. I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
The argument I made for people to vote for Harris was that this is exactly what will happen if Trump wins, and 3 months before an election is not the time to try to get a viable alternative. Harris sucked, her campaign was shit, but the alternative is running the predictable course.
Now is an excellent time to work on a viable alternative, but saying “both are the same” is disingenuous, and is not actually putting an alternative forward.
They’re certainly no worse off.
OP just said that under Trump the genocide is happening faster and you don’t consider that worse off?
Because they’re lying; the genocide was just as bad under Biden
Palestinians have been a victim of genocide since 1948. Biden send cops to beat down pro-Palestinian student protestors, Bill Clinton went to Dearborn and talked about Samaria & Judea, a thousand democrat voters cackled on twitter wishing violence on gaza after holocaust harris lost.
Genocide and Empire is bipartisan politics and we will destroy both of them. Lies must make place for truth and empires mush perish.
The world cares about what they do to other nations, not to themselves. Crazy gun policies? Slave labour in prisons? Your problem. Military expansionism, cripling economic sanctions, political inference? Very much our problem. That did’t change.
They aren’t fascists, yet they’re committing a genocide:
Democrats: against every genocide except the current one.
Hmm, red makes it go faster so you kill more people faster but they don’t suffer as long but blue gives you better team mates in matches… wait is this competitive trolley slaughter? I wasn’t expecting to need a team I guess I’ll choose blue because they will be carrying.
Terminally online leftist type shit
Innacurate. Obama used drones, saving countless american lifes. You naughty tankie.
Make no mistake, Barack Obama is a war criminal.
During his presidency, Obama approved the use of 563 drone strikes that killed approximately 3,797 people. In fact, Obama authorized 54 drone strikes alone in Pakistan during his first year in office. One of the first CIA drone strikes under President Obama was at a funeral, murdering as many as 41 Pakistani civilians. The following year, Obama led 128 CIA drone strikes in Pakistan that killed at least 89 civilians. Just two years into his presidency, it was clear that the “hope” that President Obama offered during his 2008 campaign could not escape U.S. imperialism.
The drone operations extended to Somalia and Yemen in 2010 and 2011, resulting in more destructive results. Under the belief they were targeting al-Qaida, President Obama’s first strike on Yemen killed 55 people including 21 children, 10 of which were under the age of five. Additionally, 12 women, five of them pregnant, were also among those who were murdered in this strike. These blundered acts of murder by not only President Obama, but the U.S. government, are morally reprehensible.
Even more civilian casualties came out of Afghanistan throughout Barack Obama’s time in office. In 2014, Obama began removing troops currently deployed in the country. However, instead of this action by the president being one in a pursuit of peace and stability in the region, it only acted as an opportunity to drastically increase air warfare. Afghanistan had war rained upon them by U.S. bombardment, with the administration viciously dropping 1,337 weapons on Afghanistan in 2016. In total that year, the Obama administration dropped 26,171 bombs (drone or otherwise) across seven countries: Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. The U.S., in cooperation with its allies including the Afghan government, killed 582 civilians on average annually from 2007 to 2016.
See “https://archive.ph/wK992#selection-1737.240-1761.53” for the full article.
Americans are so propagandized that we do not even notice U.S. imperialism. Ask yourself: Why can the U.S. murder in the Middle East or sink civilian ships from Venezuela with impunity? The murder of U.S. civilians is unacceptable but when we do the killing it’s always a “necessary evil”.
I was jokie. I know all that. The united states are illegitimate as far as I’m concerned.
Ah, I didn’t see that your comment was written sarcastically. Sorry about that.
You’re grand, as they say in ireland
Thanks for the round up though, it’s always good to know :)
With democrats at the (wheel?). Its the same trolley, the same track and the same people on it.
But they mostly abide by a legal speed limit and in general go much slower.
Sometimes they get to a full stopt and get out to clear some people manually to get back going.
The gop sees this and cries out that these slow speed limits are the problem. Go fast, get there quicker.
Neither party wants to talk seriously about where we’re going.
Neither wants to stop.
in general go much slower
Tell that to Palestinians, the truce has been implemented famously not during democrat rule.
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce.
Also Trump does not care one bit about what happens in reality as long as he believes that people believe him to be successful. Towards BN he is nothing but a useful fool.
Most media channels are happy to stop reporting about this cause it was getting old but the war and famine are going on unchanged.
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce
So an amelioration of genocide is insufficient to you? Good, it’s insufficient to me too, that’s why I suggest voting against democrats too
Can you explain you reasoning because It just sounds like you fell for hypernormalization big time.
Just to make things clear. The Genocide is still ongoing. Trump won last time and the biggest difference it made is a classic trick got deployed to manage public perception of what the media thinks is going on.
I repeat voting against democracts does not remove any of the issues, we are just more Frequently gaslighted against forming resistanc under Trump
The best strategy to move away from capitalism with the least bloodshed is to have people need to vote democrat during elections and then instantaneously organize mass protest against them after they win.
How are we more gaslighted against resistance with Trump? People are mobilizing in much higher numbers now, and they were quite literally shutting their ears during the Kamala campaign not to hear the names of genocide victims.
FIY
Part of why Trump won is because the majority of people loath the democrats for their blatant support of Israel. Even Bernie took a big popularity hit because of it. I am not sure where you get the perception that the people mobilising now were somehow ignorant of genocide before.
We are gaslighted against resistance because media is getting flooded with scandals and misinformation to be upset about, making it harder to unite because everyone has a different priority issue.
The no kings protest is getting people outside because many people are realising there is a major issue which deserves priority, getting the dictator out the peoples house.
You seem to confuse these people as belonging to the same groups as the weirdo democrat fans that show up to their events but its a feature by design of a two party system that the majority of voters dislike and loath the party they vote for.
Verifiably Reality is AIPAC funds both parties and both support muslim genocide, towards the Palestinian people there is no effective difference.
Also verifiable, the gop created a blueprint for turning the US in a literal fascist dictatorship, which they have been executing.
Come back down to planet earth my man.
What are you talking about? How is the genocide under Trump any worse than it was during Democrats??
Yep. C’mon back down.
I for one am able to sum the accumulated damage between the two choices. Sucks not being able to think systemically I guess.
Israel has been violating the truce non-stop.
They never had any intention on ending the genocide, and Trump and the rest of the GOP never had any intention of brokering a real truce.
You’re a fucking idiot. Get off X and join those of us living in reality for a change
Lol, didn’t the news report that israël didn’t even try to stop killing gazan ?
By all metrics, the genocide has slowed down in scope. It’s obviously insufficient and the genocide truly won’t be over until the settler colonial entity is driven out of the region, but what we are seeing isn’t a worsening of the genocide due to Trump as libs predicted.
Yeah since they nearly finished to kill everyone they are slowing, thanks Trump. After I join you on the fact that the same would have happen if it was dem.
Shit none of them talk about where theyre at. The bleeding edge of late stage capitalism.
And they’re only going slower so they can keep going longer
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp. Sure, both candidates are really bad, but one is considerably worse.
Therefore, we must still vote for the lesser of two evils. Not voting at all because both sides bad is how democracy dies, especially when democracy itself is under attack right now.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one
So you support China in their liberation of Tibet from feudal serfdom? You support the Soviet Union destroying Nazism despite the excesses made in the gulag years? Or do you only extend this courtesy to capitalist imperialist regimes?
Obviously not. I don’t support building concentration camps in general, and China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq. Admittedly, the example I gave was a bit on the extreme side. Regardless, I still disagree that if both sides are bad then they automatically are equalivent and thus voting is pointless as the meme seems to imply.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc? Sure, I’ll give you that she would have been content with the genocide in Gaza and would have been propping up the capitalist status quo. However, is that truly equilvent to what Trump has done in just his first year of his second term?
Your willingness to only engage in lesser-evilism with western genocidal regimes is very telling.
I think that’s a very reductionist opinion that ignores @pirate2377@lemmy.zip trying to honestly interact with you.
Stop being a prick, it doesn’t get you anywhere.
Sadly, western genocide will happen REGARDLESS of who I vote for, yeah. So, what do you propose I do about it other than protest and likely get arrested by ICE in a couple years for it? Attempt to sail aid to the people in Gaza and die along with them? I suppose it would preferable to get shot and die than live in a fascist America where my friends and family have to suffer, not to undermine what Gaza is going through though.
I suggest you don’t engage in lesser evilism with the west if you’re not willing to do with with geopolitics. Or if you’re willing to do it, then supoort China in the international geopolitics.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc?
Of course, look at her predecessor. Obama massively increased ICE, deportations, and did a pivot to asia.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq.
The historical example they were giving is of China invading and annexing Tibet, wherein the vast majority of the population was brutally enslaved and a small class of theocrats lived on top of a huge and ever-expanding mountain of corpses, upon which they sexually abused and murdered countless serfs besides the ones being tortured and killed by the basic mechanisms of the system under which they lived.
So the “opposing party” in this context is the other side of the war, the western-backed theocrats who wanted to perpetuate their slave state.
For the sake of not completely spamming your inbox, I’ll just reply to a few more things within this comment if that’s alright:
Huh, I actually didn’t know that, point taken. I didn’t know China had elections in general
It’s only maybe half-true to say China internally has opposing parties. There are other parties and many of them are dedicated entirely to pulling the government onto a different path from the current one, but those parties also are constitutionally barred from controlling high offices.
However, China does have elections and those elections are meaningful, because you don’t need separate parties to have meaningful elections. You believe that primaries are meaningful, right? In many places (e.g. NYC), they are much more meaningful than the general. Intra-party elections are meaningful in the same way and for the same reason that primaries are, because there are still differences within a party, even more so in a country where there is only one full party and party membership is massive and pretty accessible.
I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize various aspects about Chinese democracy, but neoliberals characterize it in a hopelessly slanted way.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
You are wrong, deportations picked up immediately and were high for his entire Presidency, especially his first term. Dems lost the House in 2010 and the Senate in 2014.
Obama is significantly liable for those loses too, because he immediately revealed that he was a complete fucking liar and didn’t want to actually pursue a progressive agenda. Even if this scapegoating were true, I’d still blame Obama because he had every opportunity to keep control of Congress but didn’t, and then it’s not like he actually opposed mass deportations.
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
I would never vote for Trump and would strongly discourage others from doing so, but there’s a meaningful sense in which his winning is less bad. Bear with me for a second: If Trump loses, he’s not actually the anti-christ who is thwarted, banished to hell, and then the Unique Threat to Our Democracy is gone. There will be more reactionary leaders who are as bad and worse who will immediately take his place. Holding him off from reclaiming office for one more term on a platform of adopting his old policies is not the victory some people depict it as.
What we need if we are taking Trump-like threats seriously is not to bail water, but to smash the Republican Party to atoms and scatter it to the wind. The Democrats can never do this, and over and over again insist that the thing to do is to adopt further and further right positions, to the point that you had Kamala commending the idea of the border wall construction project, merely saying it was mismanaged but she believed we should do something like it. That’s not hard-nosed pragmatism, that’s throwing red meat to reactionaries and supporting the cult of xenophobia to try to be Republican-lite, or more accurately to compete with 2024 Trump by becoming 2016 Trump (in terms of actual policy).
Kamala winning would have been catastrophic, not because she would have implemented worse policies than Trump, but because it would be a complete defeat of even berniecrat left-opposition in favor of a race to the bottom with Republicans of who can be more bigoted, as they get worse and then Democrats move to take up their old positions. The canonical answer in American politics would be even more cemented as “We need to get Republicans to vote for us by being racist,” and freaks like Ezra Klein who say we need anti-abortion Democrats.
If this is what the Democratic Party is, then they need to be destroyed just as much as the Republicans, because all they do is redirect “resistance” to becoming Republican on a slightly slower timetable. We need an actual left opposition to destroy reaction and the Democrats would rather lose to Trump than be that opposition, so we should be allowing them to take us hostage like we could ever give into enough demands from them that they will release us.
China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq
There are eight opposing parties in China
Huh, I actually didn’t know that, point taken. I didn’t know China had elections in general
No investigation, no right to speak.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp.
Well it’s a good thing that we didn’t have that binary choice then. My ballot had a few options, some of them even opposing concentration camps, so I got to vote against them.
I would vote a third party if it doesn’t just help the right win. If only we had ranked choice voting instead of the electrol college, then we could crub the 2 party system. Unfortunately, in the US, it’s either red team or blue team because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
You’re admitting to being one of the millions of people that votes and therefore legitimises the construction of concentration camps.
You’re a fascist.
I mean, I believe nixus was talking about voting third party, which here in America is just another way of abstaining to vote. The concentration camp example was just to point out that to say one bad candidate against an objectively worse candidate doesn’t automatically mean they’re both equally as bad. I regret using concentration camps as an example though. Perhaps a better example would be if you had the choice of voting for either Benito Mussolini or Bill Clinton. Both candidates are bad, but if I vote for one of them, am I in the wrong to make sure Mussolini doesn’t win by voting for Bill Clinton?
The concentration camps are a perfect example. No one’s saying both sides are the exact same. They’re saying they both serve US imperialism. Case and point: one side wants 5 concentration camps, the other thinks that’s a little too much and we should settle for 1.
If you want to build concentration camps you’re a fascist. If you’re okay with a party wanting to build concentration camps or can look past it you’re a fascist. You wouldn’t accept someone in the 1930s saying “yeah what the nazis are doing with the Jews is bad but have you seen their treatment of animals? I’ll vote for them but I’m no Nazi.”
So, what do you suggest I do then as an alternative to voting in this scenario? I suppose I could spill the blood of the politicians that want to build concentration camps, but once again unless I change the minds of millions of people and start a full blown civil war, then the bloodshed will be pointless. I could also move away from America, but that’s assuming I could even afford to do that let alone be able to do it legally. The only power I have as an American citizen as of now is to vote. That’s the only power I have. Protesting will eventually just get me arrested or murdered once Trump completes his power grab.
You have more power than just voting every 4 years lmao. Get organised and start interacting with like minded people and get other people on your side. Every 4 years there’s 1540 days where you could be fighting fascism and you’re only doing it for 1.
If the system is demanding that you support concentration camps, your main concern should be the destruction of the system by any means necessary, not the reduction of harm within it, and any measure that could be directed to the former instead of the latter probably should be.
If, hypothetically, the government demands that you choose between Hitler and Mussolini, the correct measures to be taking are ones directed at toppling the government.
The US is not and has never been a democracy
Oh, you’re right. My mistake. I guess I’ll just stop voting or even protesting then :/
You get told you’re wrong and immediately throw your toys out the pram
More so pointing out how silly it is. If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote? If they’re referring to the electrol college or lobbying, then yeah, I don’t support those and think it’s anti-democratic. We’d be in agreement.
If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote?
It’s wild how people can look at sham elections where both parties serve the same oligarchs in other countries, but then think the biggest oligarchy there is, America, is somehow built different.
But do you mean "then why do people vote, or why should people vote? Cause the answer varies
Even strict dictatorships have elections to gauge how much support they have. They’re limited in how far they can go before spawning a revolution. Just because votes aren’t capable of inacting actual change against the ruling class’s interests doesn’t mean it isn’t useful. By voting for a third party you’re showing solidarity with the movement and demonstrating how the current system is a sham. By voting for the system you only legitimise it and give the rulers the excuse to say they’re acting legally and with the will of the people.
Please do stop protesting. I don’t want white supremacists protesting against the destruction of the usa empire, I want them behind bars.
Protesting against the actions of Donald Trump makes me a white supremist? Sorry, I didn’t realize.
Lol cry about it
