so she gets 5 less years for… being a woman?
My guess, without knowing the case, would be that he was brandishing the weapon and making the direct threats, making her “just” an accessory to the crime therefore lesser charge and sentence.
Legal rulings usually take into account the role one serves in a crime, so e.g. in case of a bank robbery, the “just driver” won’t get as harsh a sentence as the others, as the driver usually doesn’t waltz into the bank demanding the money, therefore those charges don’t directly apply.
More than that, she was actually released just a couple months after sentancing:
Isn’t it pretty normal to get parole halfway through the sentence for state crimes?
So normal that this knowledge became part of the sentencing process. I knew a guy who was in prison for some drug related charges. (Basically he grew up with no money in a bad part of town, while on some kind of a drug binge he killed a guy who was also on a drug binge and trying to kill him, so from his perspective he kinda woke up one day in prison and had no clue what happened during his binge and just had to take everyone else’s word for what had gone down)
Anyways he was sentenced to something like 30 years for murder back in the 90s with the expectation that he’d be out in 10-15 years, but instead he spent years 20-23 of his sentence fighting tooth and nail to get parole, and in that process actually got the original judge to write a letter of recommendation where the judge specified he sentenced to 30 with the intention and expectation of him going on parole long before that point.
His life was truly a tragedy though, he ended up passing away from an undiagnosed heart condition less than a year after going on parole, and his wife was dying of something at the same time so his estranged brother had to handle the estate and ultimately he only got to live his best life for about 6 months.
that dude knows he is fucked.
“WHAT DO YOU MEAN I can’t threaten people with a gun? I thought Trump fixed things”
Probably soon pardoned by the Oval Office.
Fortunately, it doesn’t have jurisdiction. It was a state offense.
Trump just “pardoned” an Oregon(?) state election official, convicted on state charges of (?)election interference. It’s symbolic, not I fully expect them to try to press that through officially.
It was Colorado, and it was purely symbolic. If his DOJ were to take this one to the Supreme Court, and SCOTUS rules in favor of the Trump Admin, then the US Constitution, which is currently only wounded (gravely), would be truly dead.
I hadn’t heard of the Oregon one. He tried that with an election official in Colorado, too, though. Unsurprisingly, she’s still in prison.
The woman was released in 2020.
Happened in 2017.
That’s absurd
The American justice system is absurd. This is a rare example of it working equitably at least.
Race motivated terroristic threats while armed and menacing, highly likely to re-offend given their motivations. Still seems like a lot but it may be enough to protect that family and others from similar threats.
This high of a sentence is almost impossible to get for a first offense, I don’t know the specifics of this law, but it screams maximum sentence, which screams repeated offence, possibly with defiance of a specific rulling.
Those motherfuckers almost certainly had a hobbyFrom everything I’ve been able to find this isn’t a repeat offender situation, they were tried and sentenced under Georgia’s Street Gang Terrorism and Prevention Act since they were associated with a Confederate Flag “supporter” group called “Respect the Flag.” These charges came shortly after the Charleston church massacre which may have influenced the severity of the punishment.
Basically a first offense resulting in maximum punishment due to the timing of the offense.
Oh nooooo… Maybe they shouldn’t associate with such unsavoury individuals. Birds of a feather and all that.
Idk, 15 and 20 years still seems excessive to me for a first offense. They are shitty people and so are the people they associated with, but if you apply this to every other shitty people criminal situation we’d have an even worse US incarceration issue than we do currently.
the woman already been released shortly after on her own recognizance.
Which part?
His cry face is so comical and forced. It’s not even genuine. Even has very outwardly visible psychopathic tendencies, besides the actions.
I’m thinking that’s his face being caught in time, where there was actually motion. Those eyebrows do really look sad and remorseful. But I don’t gaf. They deserve the punishment.
He’s not sad he did it, he’s sad he got consequences
I dunno there’s something about his face that seems like he’s spent his whole life copying emotion, not actually feeling them, it’s a pretty convincing copy, I agree, but it reads disingenuous to me. Does he actually have tears, because that’s a classic tell, psychopaths will pull the “cry face” like they’re crying, and wipe at their face, as if there’s tears, but there isn’t tears. I’m betting he’s trying to emotionally provoke a lighter sentence. I don’t think he’s sad at all. I would bet his predominant feeling would actually be anger.
There’s also our bias to consider. I saw his face before I read what they did, and his face looked perfectly genuine to me. Also crying can start before tears show, so there isn’t definitive proof here obviously.
But yeah, what your gut tells you could also be perfectly true as well!
Yeah, I saw the face before I read anything, it was his face that told me he’d done something fkd up. I notice not many people can tell faked emotions. I don’t think I’m special, in that I can, I just had a very close up, long lasting education on it, that took me nearly 20 years to click on to, so maybe I’m actually slow on the uptake. But now, I can’t unsee it, now I can spot a faked emotion, in a nanosecond.
She definitely took it better than he did.
That’s disgusting and all, but 15 and 20 years is a little excessive, no? I’m from a country without mass incarceration or private prisons, but you don’t need nearly that much for people to learn their lesson
Without any other details, yes, those are absurdly long sentences. Sending a tough message would be like 5 years maybe? Anyone supporting this kind of sentencing deserves a longer prison term than the couple.
15 years for assaulting children seems appropriate.
If you’re an authoritarian fascist lunatic, absolutely.
I suspect you are still a child yourself, but if you had children, visualize someone waving a gun in their face and threatening to kill them.
You’re lying to someone, or else you are too young to really understand what has taken place here.
I love your argument of “you’re a child” instead of the fact that your superior is correct and you are a bottom of the barrel moron.
What a wonderful argument, definitely not fash sounding at all.
I just saw your other comment. Lmao it is a new one that you bottom of the barrel worthless dumbfuck fake leftists would call your moral and intellectual superior a fascist for advocating for less prison time.
Lawl, banned!
I hope you mean the people advocating for long prison sentences for them because if not, you’re the dumbest human being alive.
it’s about sending a message, and protecting the public. not rehabilitation.
this is the core difference between European prisons and US prisons.
I bet people in your country don’t go violently brandishing guns around at children, but if someone did you would probably feel like 15-20 years wasn’t enough.
Put it this way: not only being a direct risk of death to everyone there by pointing a firearm at them but also advocating the death, exile, or enslavement of everyone of the same race.
I’d just add up all the years of the lives they threatened at the party. I wouldn’t even be opposed to hanging them, since they were waving enemy flags.
Imagine being this pro slavery without realizing you’re being pro slavery
I think he and she realize but hard to tell, conservatives are dumb as bricks.
Those kids will never feel safe walking around. Every time someone raises their voice, they have to wonder, “Was this directed at me? Am I going to die?” They will look at their skin and wonder what they did to deserve this. The hate. The threat of violence. At a birthday, where people celebrate.
This trauma lasts longer than their prison sentence.
Source: me.
No.
In America prisoners get lots of time off their sentences for good behavior. He could be out in 8-10 years if he doesn’t get in trouble in prison.
They threatened children with guns.
Edit: There is no reasoning with Americans on this topic. It makes me sad. What a shithole country
Lol cry about it shitwit
Yeah, this wasn’t idle threatening behavior. This is the kind of behavior that if the police were involved would shoot the PoC on the spot.
If someone waved a gun at my kid and threatened to kill him, I’d want that person incarcerated for at least 15 years.
My kid has a right to feel safe around his own home / neighborhood. Nobody has the right to make him feel like his life is in direct danger from them, just for being outdoors.Combined. Read the article
Yeah I’m not opposed to some involuntary rehabilitation given that they were threatening their victims with firearms, but 15 years is insane.
Did you miss the part at the bottom where they were using guns to threaten them?
15 years is the maximum¹ sentence for murder over here. Armed threats are a serious offense but not to this extent.
¹ you may be kept longer for security reasons if a judge deems you to pose a threat after that time.
murder is cheap I guess. meanwhile being a pedophile rapist that can reveal most politicians and CEOs as also pedophile rapists is a
deathsuicide sentenceMurder isnt just cheap in the US, it’s highly prized. They fetishise their military over there. Private companies employ armed guards. Its sick.
It’s not that “murder is cheap”, it’s that many countries figured out that holding a person indefinitely in prison doesn’t do anything for their rehabilitation, only puts money in the prison’s owner’s pocket.
The point of most European prisons is to get the prisoner to understand and repent their crime, teach them some useful skills, and send them back to be a productive member of society. The point of US prisons is to just eliminate a person from public life in revenge.
The point of US prisons is to just eliminate a person from public life in revenge.
And the legal slavery, dont forget about the legalized slavery. The north may have won our civil war, but the south won the peace.
Good luck with this one. The American idea of adjudication for crime is so utterly fucked by indoctrination from decades of propaganda for privatized prison systems. It doesn’t matter if you point out that lengthy prison sentences do nothing to serve the public good, that research shows they do essentially nothing in terms of serving as a deterrent, that encouraging rehabilitation and correcting systemic issues that lead to crime would be the thing to truly address these issues. Let alone the systemic issues abound in the American justice system; that enforcement of crimes are disproportionately skewed to impact people of low SES and minority status, that this whole system is a front to enable modern day slavery.
Ultimately these people are just bloodthirsty and this gives them an outlet for that. They are vindictive and want an outlet for revenge fantasies. Just mention sex offenders and see how they become awful right wing weirdos with violent torture fantasies out of a saw movie.
But have you considered: systematic prison violence and rape = funny?
It’s not cruel or unusual if it’s only encouraged, not done, by the state.
Tbf I didn’t see the bottom part until much later.
armred robbery, threatening to kill are all felonies they carry heftier sentences. the woman was later released early, like within the few months of being charged.
They were waving around guns. That is assault by threatening someone’s life. Also complete disregard for public safety. It is a felony just brandishing a gun when not threatened yourself.
Even still if there’s no other record of violent behavior I imagine barring them from firearm possession, 5 years in prison, and 5 years probation would do the trick.
All punitive justice is good for is giving more slaves to the prison complex. Rehabilitation is better for everyone. It’s not only cheaper but also creates better (ie safer) outcomes for society.
After 20 years what will they even have to live for anymore? This is why people re-offend.
You’re correct, but anyone from the US, whether they’re on the furthest right or the furthest left, is going to have an incredibly hard time understanding why. Their country is deeply indoctrinated with this notion that anything less than the death penalty is basically a slap on the wrist, and even the progressive segments of their populace have mostly failed to ever meaningfully address or deconstruct this sentiment. Left/right disagreements over justice in the US tend to look more like disagreements over which things you should get put in prison for life for, rather than positing that such extensive prison terms being normal across the board might not be healthy for a society.
What this couple did is horrific, and it deserves a very serious penalty, and the problem then becomes that because the bar for “Very serious penalty” is set at “Spend most of your life in prison”, arguing for anything less than that feels like siding with these monsters against their victims.
I’m an American though, and many of my friends agree with me on the topic of prison reform
Are you claiming that actually everyone in America agrees with you on this point, or are you simply agreeing with me, in a very roundabout way, that talking to Americans about prison reform is incredibly difficult and that you and your friends represent the rare exceptions?
but anyone from the US, whether they’re on the furthest right or the furthest left, is going to have an incredibly hard time understanding why
Your comment made it sound like you believed no American would agree with prison reform.
I thought this was amusing since you were replying to an American that at least associates with many that agree with me on prison reform.
To make the argument more direct I’d say you’ll find a lot of Americans on the left that want a reform of our justice system
American here as well. Prison reform is needed, it’s modern slavery. But these people are Nazis and I do feel no remorse being intolerant of their actions in society. Rehabilitation or exile I do think are appropriate ways forward. It’s not the people that aren’t reasonable, it’s our laws and two tiered justice system.
See, this is an excellent example of the point I just made.
Even when people say “I want prison reform” they inevitably always have some kind of carve out for “Except in the case of X.”
Which means you don’t actually have a problem with the current system. You just have a problem with who it gets applied to.
This isn’t an example of that. My alternatives were rehabilitation or exile, which I suppose could be argued isn’t reform as we’ve exiled people as punishment for like as long as we’ve been people, but I’m really having a hard time seeing how I said “except in the case of x” I said you should be mean to Nazis, not lock them up for life.
I never said to tolerate their actions. I said the punishment does not fit the crime and better serves feeding the prison system slaves.
Some people take the idea of not tolerating intolerance to mean we ourselves must become the fascists. I reject that. We don’t have to go high when they go low but we certainly shouldn’t go lower when they go low.
Now of course big fucking astrix for our current situation. Revolution is starting to look like our only way out of the current administration.
But on the topic of prison reform that’s a bit different.
Also exile is just a terrible idea, and it’s a very antiquated one. Arguably the way it was presented was just an extension of colonialist/imperialist ideal. “Hello poor nation we’ve decided to ship you our undesirables. Good luck with that”
Sorry I didn’t mean to imply that you were tolerating their actions lol. I agree that the punishment doesn’t fit the crime.
My idea of exile, just a thought in my head, would be that it would be a choice to go through rehabilitation or leave society. If a person refuses to stop being intolerant, what is the solution? They can refuse treatment, act in bad faith, and I don’t think forcing compliance ever helped anything. So what do we do?
I get that exile is kind of a terrible antiquated idea, but if we cannot tolerate intolerance and the offender refuses to change what is the solution?
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God your persecution fetish is weird. You would’ve vibed with the Puritans
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You forgot the real option. Which is supporting reasonable sentences focused on rehabilitation.
There are very few offenses where a human deserves to be locked up for 20 years.
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We don’t have a system of rehabilitative justice and we’re not going to start having one any time soon, so the options available to us for dealing with these shitbags are either lock them up or let them keep doing what they’re doing, I think preferring option 1 is extremely reasonable
Well no, you could have given them a more reasonable sentence.
By putting them in prison for 20 years you’re basically garunteeing they commit more crime when they get out. Congrats you’ve made society less safe.
Cool story, but as I said our reality is unfortunately limited to two shitty options and your idea isn’t one of them
Unfortunately my original idea working within the system was ban on firearm ownership, 5 years prison, and 5 years probation.
Plenty punitive, but at least gives them a chance of reforming a life afterwards. Works completely fine without giving in to your false dichotomy
Honestly why are you even from .ml?
Also in case you’re confused when I said rehabilitative justice is better that was entirely separate from my suggested sentence
There’s no reforming from being a racist shitbag that threatens kids with guns. He can rot in prison for 50 years for all I care.
If we had anything resembling a reliable system for rehabilitation of violent ideologues in this country your plan would be a good one, but we don’t so it isn’t. Not a false dichotomy, just one you don’t like. I’m on ML because communism is the future, the present is dogshit and our options are dogshit.
Unfortunately it isn’t true in the US today that hate has consequences.
I assume this is a historic post and not anything that’s happened recently.
Looks like 2017.
So did they get pardoned by Trump or not?
Looks like state charges so Trump can’t pardon them even if he wanted to.
😢 But I just wanted to be racist…
😭 The woke won’t let me be racist!!!Ah don’t worry, they’ll get a pardon for heroic acts of anti wokeness or something
State charges are not able to be presidentially pardoned, although if it’s a red state the governor may just do it to capitulate.
This may surprise people, but politicians do not have the right to pardon people in most countries.
The way it should be
The woman already got released.
Figures. Yet people are doing twice as much time with no eligibility for early release for fucking weed.
Less people after Biden pardoned hundreds of them.
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He doesn’t need to worry, his El Presidente Trump will pardon him in no time.
I was afraid this was about Aaron Paul for a sec. Anyone else see an uncanny resemblance?
Aaron Paul looks like the average southern drug taking boy, that’s exactly why they cast him in BB.
I don’t think this guy looks as much like Aaron as they both look like southern meth heads.
… Ohhhhhhhh actually yeah that makes sense. Okay yeah! It’s an archetype that existed independently and Aaron Paul DOES nail it! Like, just aesthetically–as far as i know he’s actually a very good person hence my worry. He perhaps inadvertently made that entire demographic look better XD
Don’t give this too much attention or Trump will pardon them.
If it’s state charges he can’t pardon them. He only has federal pardon powers.
As if that small detail would stop the orange turd
Too true, nobody seems inclined to actually do anything to stop his illegal behavior.
So what they have to do is commit more crimes until it’s bumped up to a federal case. Like do the same thing but in a national park. They better get on that real fast.
What about Georgia’s governor? Are they shitty?
He is, but I don’t believe he’s stupid. Pardoning those two would create a bigger impetus to flip the state. Especially in a climate now where people are already quite fed up with republicans.
This sums up the left so perfectly.
Which part? Opposing racism? Consequences for criminals? Feel free to elaborate
Why do you think pleading with the left to not pay attention is an opposition to racism or a consequence. Please explain.
Why do you think ignoring problems will make them go away? Are you a fucking toddler? Pretending not to see it won’t do anything to stop Trump from finding out about it
That is literally my point
You don’t have a point
Getting some basic reading skills. Don’t worry about engaging with this stuff until then
