Edit: I intentionally put “bad people” in the title in order to provoke. 😊
If you don’t know what I’m talking about:
Black Mirror - Hated in the Nation
I’m not sure how to limit the scope of this discussion, since it touches upon so many areas of morale:
- the value of life
- the right to kill
- vengeance/revenge
- crime
- good and evil
So I encourage you to be articulate and to follow some structure: “what(thesis) - why(evidence) - what (thesis)”. Other easy to follow variations, such as “why(background + evidence) - what(thesis)” or “what - why - what - by the way(discussion)” or just a simple “what” are of course good too. I’m not trying exclude comments, and I won’t, just encouraging an easy to read discussion. As for me:
I would not kill using a Death Note, unless for some utterly personal vendetta. I would also not kill those that did, if we were talking about some sort of society wide phenomenon. I believe that taking action against human life on the macro scale, such as a nation state against another or such as one confined justice system against one of its subjects (state versus an individual, for instance) or in the fictive case of the above mentioned media, is wrong. This is because I don’t believe it right to through politics or legislation qualify or quantify the value of a human life, such as is done in jurisdictions that allow capital punishment. While I’m against such “marco actions” on human life, I for some reason have less of a problem empathizing with the individual victims involved, which is to say, I don’t think I’d rage against, say, a grieving mother avenging her murdered child by killing the murderer. But then again, not all individuals have the ability or the capacity to exact revenge and maybe they have to rely on their nation state for some kind of restitution? My opinion is probably logical mess, full of contradictions, but there it is. Feel free to poke holes, in a kind manner!
killing the top 1% wealthiest would solve like 99% of issues
That’s 1-in-100 people worldwide, likely including you.
EDIT: Disregard most all of this as I got my numbers mixed up. I no longer stand by the point I was trying to make.
If they make less than $450k USD annually, then they’re not in the top 1% of just the US. In order to be part of the global top 1% then they’d need even more than that, likely quite a bit more.Not to make assumptions about someone I don’t know but I’d put it at about 1% odds that they make that much.
These were my numbers last time I took the test. Adding my wife’s income, and my zero income, we’re in the 8%. It take very little to land in the 1%.
You have it exactly backwards. Compare yourself against worldwide, as I said.
I apparently forgot to reply to this earlier, but I got my numbers mixed up and that’s where my misinterpretation came from.
I think my mistake came from thinking of the US top 1% as some 3.3 million ish slots on the list, then forgetting that by adding in the rest of the world wide population the number of slots for people who would qualify would expand out to some 80 million ish slots because that quantity is determined by a set percentage.
I played around with the numbers on that website and it seems like you need to make more than about $68,300 USD annually (after taxes) in order to be considered in the top 1% globally. I’ll also agree that (based on my experience where I live) that’s just a decent job and not a particularly good one. Because of that I would agree that this person’s filter of the top 1% globally easily could include they them-self.
I think I get the idea that they were going for by trying to include more people than the usual “all billionaires” I’ve seen in these comments, but yeah the specific number they chose seems like it would include hundreds of millions of people who I think likely would still prove a net benefit to society.
I was making $70K when I first saw that site which is why I remembered being in the top 1%. Marrying a Filipino really opened my eyes. Their min wage (varies a bit by occupation and state) is about $12 a day.
I’m RICH BEYOCH! (Well, not now. Haven’t had a decent job in 2 years, none now.)
What kind of mathematically illiterate nonsense is that. You think to be in the global 1% takes MORE MONEY than being in the US 1%???
You understand that requires the global average wealth to be HIGHER than the US right?
Besides the top 1% of the 1% (billionaire class) are a lot more problematic than someone who makes 450k/yr… That’s just a good doctor in the west. Plus Forbes publishes a billionaire list.
I would use it. But I wouldn’t use it against regular people who are in jail, they are serving their time for their actions.
I would use it against those who have the resources to avoid jail time.
Then I would use you to kill my business rivals by publicizing convincing but fabricated evidence against them and making it look like they boight their way out of consequences when courts rightly shot the case down.
(For what it’s worth, I feel the same and would probably make the same call. Just for the philosophy of it, there are reasonable arguments against the stance.)
Why would you need to fabricate evidence? Make them actually do bad shit before they die.
There are many people who contribute or cause people’s deaths who should have their ability to cause harm removed from society, but who continue to roam free as a result of their disproportionate influence and the corruption of the system (which they often contribute to). Given the lack of alternate means, I would choose to remove them in the most expedient way possible while also minimizing the opportunity for recidivism. I view this as the most utilitarian approach to maximize life, liberty, or even general happiness.
I usually go with:
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
– Gandalf when asked about killing Gollum
yeah but he stays strangely silent on sauron.
Being a maia, Sauron cannot be killed, so Gandalf was categorically not talking about Sauron.
wait! so what happened after the ring was destroyed??? Is sauron still alive! Will he kill me for not capitilizing his name!!!
You are careful to quantify “human life”. Do you believe that human life is more valuable than other life? If so, why?
Of course it is. We are humans and we’re doing the valuing. You’d be stupid to not value yourself above other life.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you are arguing that human life is more valuable because you are human and therefore more valuable than all other life.
Not sure if you’re sarcastic or if you’re actually arguing that human lives are not more valuable than other animals.
Not sarcastic. I do not think that human life is more valuable than other life. Will I prioritize my own life over others? Yes, because I am selfish that way. Given the choice, will I choose a human life over the life of an animal? I honestly don’t know.
Do you believe that human life is more valuable just because you are human and therfore believe that you are more valuable, or do you have other reasonings? What I am ultimately asking is, what do you think makes human life so special and superior to other life?
Given the choice, will I choose a human life over the life of an animal? I honestly don’t know.
Than you’re an insane person.
What I am ultimately asking is, what do you think makes human life so special and superior to other life?
I mean, do you not see reality? It’s quite obvious that we’re quite special compared to other animals. For once, we have invented the whole civilisation thing … I don’t understand how this is even a question.
I know you’re right but, if I was forced to write the names of 100 humans, or one of my cats? Get me a phone book.
Since you begun the extremism by calling another commenter insane for their views, I will say it is an interesting view coming from somebody who is obviously hopelessly lost in the smell of their own farts.
Why does our ability to create a civilisation (which largely has only been to the benefit of our species compared to all others) makes the value of a human individual worth more compared to other living beings?
Your own explanation is hopelessly confused, since you are obviously trying to argue your self-admitted subjective opinion as objective fact.
No, that is quite a narrow view to take.
I know of some powerful people I would want to write the name of. I’m not sure if it will end the wars and suffering they’ve caused, but I believe the world would be a better place without them.
Like everyone else, I have lines that cannot be crossed.
I personally believe that if you intentionally kill another human or intentionally harm/violate a defenseless child, you have waived your human rights as a result.
I’m also going to echo what others are saying, that those who have been caught by a justice system and sentenced should be left alone and I would focus on murderers and child abusers who are still at large.
I feel like I would kind of have to, the potential upside is just way too big
If you asked me this years ago I would have said no. Today though it would seem like such an opportunity to mitigate the effects of climate change and pollution and greed.
No. I know its probably a minority opinion, but killing people doesn’t really solve anything. If anything, killing often makes things worse. Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind type thing.
Yes.
However, in the long run the DeathNote would make me a corrupt PoS. I genuinely believe no one should have such power (DeathNote, Geass, Makima’s Control etc).
Didn’t a list of ICE agents just come out? How could one resist?
Certainly. Not because of grief though, revenge is not a good reason, but because many issues worldwide would be fixed with targeted assassinations and it would avoid much bloodshed (since the other option is war, civil or otherwise). Also, imagine the fear the peers of those targeted would feel, they’d think it’s God’s doing or something, and that might stop them from pursuing their antihuman activities.
Ps: idk about killing those who did, how could I be sure that whoever is being problematic (idk, some MAGA dude with the book just murdering innocents because they’re brown or Muslim or trans) would be the one I’d kill? A world with many Death Notes makes it all very confusing. But if I could 100% know this dude is the one just murdering innocents, I’d target him as well, ofc. If I can stop a crazy serial killer with the stroke of a pen, why wouldn’t I do it?!
I thought God was pretty against murder.
I seem to recall that you think drinking a beer fully corrupts an individual, so seeing that murder isn’t a problem for you it kinda confirms my theory that you’re a troll.
I thought God was pretty against murder.
Depending on the religion god has commanded quite a fuck load of murder.
I’m not talking about religion contradicting itself. That’s obvious. I’m talking about this troll doing so. They claim to be super religious which means they are forbidden from murdering.
If I take a hit on Netanyahu or a random mass murdering maniac, what would the problem be? Do you think they’d be convinced to stop with pretty words? Do you think having the capacity to empower the victims to fight back against their oppressors (which is not the premise of the post even) wouldn’t just create more unnecessary deaths? Or do you think passively accepting the status quo when you actually have the power to make things better is somehow the righteous option? 🤔
Think for two seconds, remembering that God is the Wise, and tell me in earnest that passivity in a world of horrors is what God would want, especially if you were given supernatural powers!
It’s not me you have to convince, it’s the God you pretend to believe in.
I’m not trying to convince you, I’m explaining things to you, lol. And, much like at least a quarter of the world, I’m not pretending, you just don’t have the capacity to understand belief in God… God willing that’ll change, though.
I know the basic facts about your religion. It’s pretty clear that murder is forbidden. You love to distract from inconvenient truths, but it never works. You just admitted you’d wholeheartedly commit the cardinal sin of sins. So, cool?
Fair enough
Yeah, a lot of awful people in positions of power would go. I hope I wouldn’t use it for petty things like “parking in the bike lane”.
Removing a lot of the forces keeping the capitalist dystopia in place might let something else grow.
Yes, it would be enormously useful in combination with a mass movement and organized worker party to implement socialism.
Killing is the morally correct thing to do in acts of self defense
Billionaires, just by hoarding the wealth that they have and using it to run this system, are an everyday threat to the lives of the most vulnerable people in society
They are above the law. Nothing will happen to them if I don’t do something. That’s who I would go for without hesitation
None of that ego bullshit, no Kira nonsense. Just do what has to be done in whatever accidental or coincidental method
