It would be more accurate to say windows users don’t think, period. :)
Their OS doesn’t require them to. They can spend their time thinking about other things in life, like touching grass.
Unlike Linux, that fights against every decision you do and even requires you to use command lines just to get your audio working.
Not true in my experience. Windows users hate their OS and all the crap they have to live with.
MacOS users in this post:
Also BSD
Hated by both sides for different reasons but both are valid
TempleOS users in this post:
lol Who?
Well we wouldn’t want to commit sacrilege
macOS is for people who think people should earn for their work.
Linux is for people who believe NOBODY should EVER earn money for ANYTHING EVER.
Don’t believe me? Let’s talk about SuSE. Or Red Hat. Or IBM. All “evil” the second they started charging “money” for the “work” of the “laborers”.
lol
Open sources in awesome thing, but people should get paid for their labor
And you can debate the abominable labor practices of Apple Inc., but poor labor practices does not devalue their products, no matter how far you twist your logic or philosophy. nor how many childish tantrums you throw.
It’s a shame my instance has disabled downvoting.
Linux is not exclusively for anti-capitalist FOSS-lovers like myself. As you mentioned, there are multiple different corporate distros. Additionally, “The Cloud” runs on Linux: not even Microsoft uses Windows to host their services. And let’s not forget Android and Tizen!
All of that is, however, beside the point. Do you reject Wikipedia because it too is created by volunteers? Software, like knowledge, exists beyond the concept of scarcity.
If us FLOSS-lovers had our way, no one would ever have to pay for software, as it would be maintained by the community. And of course, most such projects and developers accept donations.
I hope this does not fall on deaf ears, though I understand that the concept of working to improve the lives of others (and one’s own life) without some form of direct payment is… foreign, to many people living under capitalism.
I’ve never seen a software freedom or open-source enthusiast make anything remotely like this argument. When we have criticisms of predominantly open-source-based companies, it’s usually because they’re adding some kind of proprietary scamware into their systems, not because they’re charging money for their services.
Plenty of people and companies have found ways to generate income - yes, even beyond donations - while still respecting other’s rights. You’re just repeating a lie that’s been debunked and dead for years.
Why is it that half the time I see a diatribe with no substance but a lot of syllables just for the sake of syllables it is you? Are you getting paid by the word?
Cut it out.
What a hypocritical thing to say
If you don’t like my comments, just do what I’m gonna do to you: use the block function
I am a software engineer who believes software engineers should be paid for their work. I use Linux. Do I mean nothing to you??
I think most Linux users don’t have a problem with things like RHEL. I personally think it’s great. I don’t personally use it, but I have absolutely no problem with it.
The actual problem Linux users care about is when people use and modify the Linux kernel (or any other GPL project), distribute the binaries, but don’t distribute the source code. (I’m looking at you, Sony.)
It’s funny because without Linux, they wouldn’t have any of their modern luxuries, but they’re usually completely ignorant to that fact, like a bird eating fries off the ground thinking they’re really good at scavenging food.
You know people would just… Use other operating systems, right? The march of Technology doesn’t just halt because Linux never got invented, it likely would have just ended up with smaller machines using a stripped down form of windows
Yeah, I know that. It would probably be BSD though. Doesn’t change what I said though. They’d be ignorant of whatever else it was. It definitely wouldn’t be Windows though. Proprietary systems would never work for things like server farms that have 500,000 servers.
BlueScreenofDeath is an operating system? how long was i high for?
What are you basing this off of? The alternate histories stock market history?
I promise you if Linux wasn’t invented we would have made another niche product or adapted what we have lol, the world doesn’t need to revolve around Linux
IIRC, one of the main reasons Linux is so dominant for server-usage is because it was released before BSD. If Linux had never been made, BSD would very likely have taken its place. If BSD wasn’t made either? Some other Unix-like. Maybe Solaris or Mac. If Unix was never invented, then maybe Windows would take its place.
BSD was released as a standalone kernel over ten years before linux.
I lookes it up, and the quote I was thinking of was this:
“If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened.”
So yeah, sorry about getting the timing of things wrong, and thank you for correcting me.
I do still think however, that if not for Linux, it would be BSD running most servers and such.
I was wondering, the timing was a sore point for bsd users back in the day. But linux had the upper hand because it was built on pc, spoke the language, so to speak. The groundswell was immense because all the hobbyists already understood the boot stack and the machine code. I don’t disagree but it is “coulda woulda shoulda”.
If they had ported to 386 a few years earlier, linus probably would be a bsd enthusiast. It is also possible the window that drove him there could have persisted well past bsd on 386. Who knows.
I’m basing off of the fact that Microsoft doesn’t even use Windows for their server fleets. Windows makes a terrible server.
Welcome to your daily post about how Linux users talk so much about themselves…
Surrounded by zero Linux users talking about themselves.
I use arch btw
And a whole bunch of Windows users clearly thinking way more about Linux than they care to admit.
Honestly doesn’t come up much in my day to day
Comes up enough to post about tho, doesn’t it?
With Lemmy, you’re being constantly bombarded how Linux is the golden grail of everything, that farts cotton candy and pisses rainbows.
I’d love to think more about Linux by installing it. But just the Linux community alone is enough to deter me. I don’t want to be seen as part of that group, ever. It is honestly the worst part about the entire environment.
And because you will need to interact with them whenever you encounter an issue. I just stay far away from them until the community can get their shit together.
Just asking what distro to use will get them fighting.
There is not a comment in this thread worthy of a shitpost, just lots of boasting how great Linux is. The Linux users don’t even get the irony of this. But, you’re technically correct.
You clearly do if you went out of your way to make this meme.
I assumed it was a Linux person making it. As someone who is a Windows user by trade, but a Linux user at heart, I found it quite funny.
Nah, Linux users don’t have this much self awareness.
I’m well aware that Linux is niche for home-use, but I think that’s going to change very quickly, and I should like to hasten such changes.
Then do so by improving the community. Help new users without being condescending. Without just RTFM-them. And agree that Linux is far from perfect. That it still requires a lot more knowledge to use than a consumer based OS. And to call out any Linux hardcore that thinks they are better than others just for using a specific OS. Or shit on any other OS for that matter.
Then and only then will Linux get the chance to go mainstream.
awhatness?
The difference between Linux and Windows is that Windows is being made terrible on purpose.
does that imply linux is being made terrible by accident? which implies also that linux is being made terrible?
From my experience, Linux is a little more susceptible to random bugs and issues, sadly doesn’t support a lot of common software and games, etc. Terrible might be a strong word, but it has its issues. Hopefully things keep getting better.
yea it can run most things i want in my case, either with distro amnostic packages, the pacjage manager or wine. Some stuff doesn’t work yea, if you need very specific software or play meta games or some also specific games it might not work either. At least it’s getting better tho like you said, (unlike windows(like you also said)).
Linux? Isn’t that the kid from the Charlie Brown cartoons that walks around holding a blanket?
The average Linux evangelist on Lemmy vastly overestimates the tech-saviness of the average person.
I know, the average person probably only knows 2, maybe 3 distros Max
And Mint
Yes, of course Mint
One of my fav xkcds, nice adaptation. (here for those uninitiated)
There truly is an xkcd for everything.
You’re the relevant XKCD for that!
“What’s a Linux?”
Then you find the average windows user doesn’t even know what Windows is.
hey, i was just about to make Mint Tea. it’s the time of day i think about installing mint, change my mind, and gossip about it
over a cup of peppermint tea. it’s wonderful.
I think it’s more like people still hold onto a view of the difficulty that hasn’t been true for years now in the big ones (Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, etc). I agreed with this position 10 years ago, but not anymore. Users that aren’t super technical are likely just browsing, watching video, and playing games. All that works out of the box now with nearly no set up in my experience. My 7 year old has been using it with less problems than he was getting in Windows 11 (seriously).
Did your 7 year old setup their own Linux environment?
Because anyone can run a fully configured computer. Doesn’t matter if it is Linux or Windows.
And the problem with Linux is the setup. Too many incompatible or badly written drivers. The first step is already finding hardware that is supported.
Also, did you use the out-of-the-box experience for Windows? Or try to put in too many workarounds because you didn’t like how Microsoft handles things? I bet your 7 year old would have zero issues with a regular Windows setup.
This mirrors my experience as a dumb person desperately trying to seem to cool to nerds. I’d alwys try Linux and something wouldn’t work, I’d spend hours trying to fix it, then I’d just stop booting into it.
Been mono-booting Linux Mint with almost no problems for a year, the same time that Windows is the worst its ever been.
I tried to upvote you twice but was not allowed. So here is my second upvote: You hit the problem spot on!
I work on the IT side of a non tech company. I don’t think vastly even comes close to covering how un-savvy the average person is
It is a miracle if the average users ever learns a new program with a GUI. And will curse the gods when even a single button is moved.
And if anyone thinks they would be fine running any command on anything ever, they are deluding themselves.
A black box with a single line of text? = they are being hacked and will pull the plug just to get rid of it.
And it’s getting worse, not better.
Shit’s better now. That’s not to say that your average person could handle everything.
If I have a normal person linux on a usb on a computer set to boot from usb, they could totally install it.
If an update fucks over a driver or a package, they’re completely fucked.
If they need to make their own boot usb, they’re completely fucked.
If they need to configure their computer to boot from the usb if it’s not setup that way … completely fucked.
If they’re good with generic drivers, generic browsers and probably steam, they’ll be fine.
Grandma is probably fine with Linux now.
Of course, a decent number of gen-x grandmas might have actually fucked around with linux years ago :)
It would be great if Mint or Zorin had an atomic version so a failed update can be switched back in seconds and it is essentially impossible for the user to break anything outside of the home folder.
NixOS does that. But it’s WAY too complicated for general use :)
That’s also a lot more work than I’m willing to put into using my computer when Win10 still works well enough.
Oh, absolutely. They’ve never had to do family tech support, and it shows.
I dunno, I switched my 7 year olds laptop over specifically because Windows updates kept breaking things. Everything worked out of the box with Linux and hasn’t broken yet. He doesn’t care either way, he just wants to use his programs, and that’s been easier since switching. I say this as someone who very painfully had to use Linux for a few years about 10 years ago… the experience is just very different today. I don’t think a day to day user will notice any difference beyond better stability.
My experience is that once set up, the easy linux distros are way less likely to randomly stop working and need support. And by set up, I pretty much mean “install the OS and grab Steam”.
Whenever you try to explain anything the conveesation is totally uninteresting
Note to self: they dont care. They dont care that they dont care
Yes… it’s like default settings. The very action of changing a setting on any devices means you are a “power user”. You made a conscious decision on how the device should behave and you suspect it can be done. Meanwhile the vast majority of users do not even consider this a possibility.
Windows users are not using a computer, they are doing another task that happens to required a machine, they don’t learn about what it is, how it works, how it can be modified.
IMHO it was perfectly in the 70s when there was no laptop, desktop, mobile phone, mobile data. Now that one needs to use such infrastructure to interact with others, vote, pay bills, get access to culture, etc then I do believe computer literacy is not optional anymore.
Pretty sure you can change plenty of settings in Windows.
So they are power users by your own logic.
It’s like that, but it’s not the whole picture. That’s how it starts. Then they get to something they can’t change and start trying to figure out why. Then in their web searches they stumble into a Linux forum…
(True story)
My point isn’t the availability of settings as a meaningful information but rather if somebody did change a setting, or not. If somebody changes a default setting, or a default OS, they are radically more likely to be a power user.
I don’t get why people on Lemmy care so much about either of them so passionately, I passively see more Linux vs Windows in a week here than basically the rest of my life before joining this site. Is every other person here some kind of computer science enthusiast or something like that?
The principles that make Lemmy attractive are the same principles that people like about Linux: freedom, openness, tech independence. The list could go on.
Point is, it’s safe to say that if you like either one, you’re more likely than the average person to like the other as well.
Is every other person here some kind of computer science enthusiast or something like that?
That’s a fair way to sum it up, yeah. Politics aside, we like to tinker with tech and Linux is inherently tinker-able.
Because there is an ethical implication is using Linux vs Windows.
Windows is the De Facto choice since Windows 95 at least. And Microsoft is steering computers in a anti-consumers space. So for many people, using Linux isn’t simply using a different OS but it is also a ethical statement.
It’s because Lemmy is a techy tinkering hub. The same skills and interests needed to be aware of and migrate to Lemmy lend themselves to people migrating to Linux.
Both are free and open source and arguably better than the alternatives of reddit and windows so of course there are a bunch of dorks on here trying to get you to switch.
Both also cut down on how much you can be spied on and manipulated by algorithms so that’s a big incentive to convert people too.
Edit: btw you should switch to linux
Ig yea, I do use Linux too, but the “Linux VS WindOws” bs OS wars is everywhere tbh, but yea- if you are on reddit, you wouldnt see it cuz the algorithm knows you don’t care- on the other hand if I open reddit rn (I haven’t opened it in, god knows how long) I bet, the first post that gets shoved in my face is some fuckass stupid OS war rage bait.
One of the Reason I quit reddit was because of this kind of negative engagement farming kind of posts just filling up my feed, This place is better compared to reddit on that case, but because there’s not a prominent algorithm that tracks you, what you see is what everyone mostly sees and Ig somany privacy consious people who switched to lemmy, also uses some form operating system that respects their choice.
Lemmy’s full of linux fans. Theres not really much more to it
Well there’s probably not enough memory to install Windows on those fans anyways…
You don’t need to. You just open those windows for a nice breeze.
Yup I like control and I can’t stand my computer doing things on its own.
Similarly, I can’t stand how commercial OSes are constantly trying to push their own control on customers. Walled gardens, building in advertising backdoors, pushing AI “features” trying to get customers hooked on their latest venture bubble that’s cooking the planet…
Etc, etc, etc…
Lemmy, like linux, has a very small learning curve that keeps out most people.
I don’t get why people on Lemmy care so much about either of them so passionately
Weirdos who feel the need to let everyone know their team is superior, so they can feel superior. Its just as dumb as apple vs. android or Xbox vs playstation vs pc. Guys, It’s ok to like what you do and NOT shit on people who don’t do what you’re doing.
I want people to have a free alternative to windows that actually let’s them know what’s under the hood, I understand that elitism absolutely exists in the Linux community, but most of us just want to see you enjoy an operating system that respects the user and isn’t at the mercy of techbro man children.
Yes, most lemmings use Linux and because you have to care about your choice of operating system at least a little bit for Linux there is a lot of talk about it here
Lemmy users:
Reddit users:
WSL users: 🤪
Is this really a thing to hate on someone for their operating system?
Like, I use a computer to browse sites like this, play games, and do simple shit like writing (film) scripts, or playing around in Excel.
operating system never has ever crossed my mind.
Yes, go to the Linuxmemes community. Seems like tons of users there keep making Windows memes that have nothing to do with Linux, because they can’t handle how popular Windows is. If you point out the misinformation, or even show any love for Windows, you get downvoted to hell if not outright banned.
Yes, go to the linuxsucks community. Seems like one guy spends all his time making anti-linux propaganda. If you point out the misinformation portions he bans you.
That’s dumb. It’s a fucking computer. If you’re able to use it, who cares. If people use a different system who fucking cares? It doesn’t affect anyone but yourself.
Microsoft and Apple are steering the computing space in a very anti-consumer space. So for many people, it is more than just an OS, but an ethical statement.
The less people use Windows and MacOS, the less sway they have in the computing space.
So Linux is just computer hipsterism?
Is it hipster to advocate for mega corpo to fuck off?
Not sure how you got this from my reply, but mega corpos influence our life for the worst. Trying to diminish their influence in our life isn’t hipsterism.
Sure they do, but an OS isn’t influencing your life compared to Meta or any of the media conglomerates.
The idea of that is actually quite funny. A grown up who is actually that petty unironically.
I do sometimes feel bad for MS Windows users. I rarely “hate on” them, but that largely depends on their reaction my inability / unwillingness to use the communication/collaboration tools and data formats they are used to.
Why? They use a different product than you do. How does that affect you in any way?
So, True.
Everyone knows Temple OS is the superior OS. You. Would say its divine
