Luke 6:35 So truly, love your enemies. Do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return. And then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and to the wicked.
Luke 6:36 Therefore, be merciful, just as your Father is also merciful.
Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Say, a father loves his son or daughter, but his son or daughter reaches wants to depart from the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves. Can he stop him or her like a slave and bind him or her? No
God created everything, including hell (he has the power to destroy hell).
A more apt analogy is the Father bred those wolves specifically to attack his children if they ever choose to leave, and after being mauled near to death, he tends to the children until they are healthy enough, then calls to the wolves to maul them again, to infinity.
Yes, he absolutely can. At many ages, being a parent can feel like it’s nothing but physically restraining your child from doing stupid things that will kill them. This is a horrible metaphor.
and btw, Christianity is so “restrictive” as you are being prevented from doing these things, as sins will eventually corrode you and take over your life and ruin it
So the child metaphor is about someone who, in pretty much the entire world, is not a child.
Kinda grasping at straws to save face, aren’t you?
it is extremely derogatory
Nah it’s not.
as sins will eventually corrode you and take over your life and ruin it
IDK man, my life is pretty damn great and just absolutely dripping with sin. Is it possible you’ve been, I don’t know, lied to? By people who stand to profit from you? You give power to people who don’t deserve it because you’re told you have to - you carry water for them unasked, out of a sense of loyalty that is unearned. You’ve been tricked by pedophiles into doing their bidding, because they’ve sold you on the lie that sin is righteous and obedience is faith. You’re a victim, and one that’s been so viciously beaten you can’t hold up your head to see what you’ve become.
(I love that you’re just ignoring the inconvenient part where I point out you’re a tragic victim…)
I meant “child” as a gender neutral word for “daughtee” or “son”
There is nothing stopping you from restraining an adult, though. It’s just a shit metaphor.
you think your life is good and youre not addicted until you try to stop one of your habits.
Who cares? None of the things you’d doubtlessly decry as an addiction have a negative impact on my life. Honestly most of them have only improved it. So… what’s the problem, exactly? Why would I even want to stop?
you would support someone physically tying up their 20 year old offspring and dragging them home because they wanted to leave?
you only think so, frater. They have a deep ad disgusting impact on your life, and the impact isnt good at all, a meth addict will try to prove that meth doesnt have an impact on their life
I just wanna highlight how perfect this response is. Backed into a metaphorical corner by not getting the response you expected, you retreat to a retort you learned by rote, which is only barely applicable. It’s a beautiful example of the terrible habits you develop through a highly religious life.
God didn’t love all those children he gave cancer to, or transexuals who are being harassed online right now and will kill themselves pretty soon. God is not interfering or doing anything to stop the people in the Epstein files or all the evil alike. Instead, God is convincing people that we should never hurt those people, because hurting them is “bad.”
It seems God’s love is worth nothing. I don’t want the “unconditional love” of a fucking pedophile apologist monster that deserves to die. Calls himself “all-mighty,” “omnipotent,” “omniscient,” “omnipresent…” Yet, I see nothing but suffering and destruction. Maybe God is bored and is using us as entertainment props. Ever thought about that? Seeing us get raped, killed, and then take revenge is an exciting show for God. They’ve been watching that shit for THOUSANDS of years now without stopping it or helping us in any way. God convinced you that “that’s his plan. He wants us to learn to love by ourselves.”
Nah. God just wants entertainment. There is no justification as to why God is not coming down to stop evil. Either God is super weak, enjoys watching this shit, or doesn’t care at all. None merit love.
Fuck all religions. Nobody needs them to be good people.
15
In return for their foolish and wicked thoughts,
which led them astray to worship irrational serpents and worthless animals,
you sent upon them a multitude of irrational creatures to punish them,
16
so that they might learn that one is punished by the very things by which one sins.
17
For your all-powerful hand,
which created the world out of formless matter,
did not lack the means to send upon them a multitude of bears, or bold lions,
18
or newly-created unknown beasts full of rage,
or such as breathe out fiery breath,
or belch forth a thick pall of smoke,
or flash terrible sparks from their eyes;
19
not only could the harm they did destroy people,[e]
but the mere sight of them could kill by fright.
20
Even apart from these, people[f] could fall at a single breath
when pursued by justice
and scattered by the breath of your power.
But you have arranged all things by measure and number and weight.
God Is Powerful and Merciful
21
For it is always in your power to show great strength,
and who can withstand the might of your arm?
22
Because the whole world before you is like a speck that tips the scales,
and like a drop of morning dew that falls on the ground.
23
But you are merciful to all, for you can do all things,
and you overlook people’s sins, so that they may repent.
24
For you love all things that exist,
and detest none of the things that you have made,
for you would not have made anything if you had hated it.
25
How would anything have endured if you had not willed it?
Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved?
26
You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living.
If people put as much effort into understanding evil as they exert trying to blame god for all the evil that is
done in this world, it would be much more productive. So much effort wasted trying to create a chain of causality:
Evil --> God
Evil --> (Bad) Humans --> God
Evil --> (Bad) Humans --> Religion --> God (who they then claim doesn’t really exist…)
Really, it’s all such mental intemperance and illogic. The opposite of rationality, really.
So many missing pieces to these “models”. They can’t explain reality themselves under their
own mental powers, while claiming what religious people believe is nothing but a figment of
their imagination. What sort of figments are these incoherent, incomplete, and partial arguments of
unbelievers, in the end?
I want to chuckle at this at first glance, but it is legitimately sad. Being unable to determine the difference between what is provable and therefore true versus what is not, is a critical ability in life.
It’s like saying Winnie the Pooh, the Tooth Fairy, or Santa is real. They exist in literature and in lore, but that does not make the characters in the story, or the actions taken, real.
I grew up in a Christian household and I started questioning things regarding it as early as 4 years old. I left the faith when I was 12, as medical issues made me question things such as ‘if I’m a good, kind person, why does all of this happen to me?’. I officially took up being Satanic about 15 years later. Medicine and science has solved or controlled the issues that plagued me through years of unanswered prayer.
Most of my friends, and relationships, are atheist or agnostic - but not all. And I don’t particularly try to sway others, but if nothing else, I plead to you to try and take a rational approach to everything in life, and question everything. Even conversations like this. Often, you’ll come up with the same or similar answers, and that’s fine; but coming up with new thoughts, facts, or even more questions, and then in a loop investigating those, is a sign of a sound mind and true logic and reasoning. Even being able to say ‘I can’t prove this as fact, but I still believe it’ is okay. It’s not necessarily what I say given the same facts and data, but as long as we aren’t trying to harm each other, it doesn’t matter.
multiple other miracles, research intercessory miracles in the Church
something coming from “nothing” in the big bang? I feel like a creator is way more logical than 0 + 0 = 1, and the big bang could just be a part of God creating the universe
What? Okay, no, that’s not how it works. Where on earth did you learn that?
Cardiac tissue growing on catholic Hosts
Holy Cronenberg.
the Bible predicting that light can create matter
It… again, this isn’t even slightly how it works. Who’s been lying to you about particle physics?
research intercessory miracles in the Church
I have, there’s absolutely nothing even slightly approaching proof there - unless you uncritically accept the conclusion that the only way something could have happened was god, and then stop thinking about it.
unless you uncritically accept the conclusion that the only way something could have happened was god, and then stop thinking about it.
You have to understand. 2k years ago, without anything ressembling a telescope, undestanding the most basic stuff about astronomy (or science in general) was… not a thing if you were a poor roman fellow tired of believing in a few hundred roman gods. How would you explain the big ball of fire in the sky if hot with the presence of a guy with superpowers? Religion… still lives 2k years ago.
The Bible does not make predictions about light being able to form matter. In genesis, God creates light and dark, but no where does it say that everything else is created from light. In fact, the Bible gives two completely different and contradictory narratives for the creation of the world.
This is so pathetic it almost defies embellishment. Trying to use pop-sci reporting to justify the infallibility of the bible is too perfect a juxtaposition for me to even capture in words. It’s sublime. You’ve nailed it - this is the perfect representation of your faith. Well fucking done.
Why doesn’t the all-powerful being make hell a nicer place to be, then? If a lot of the people he loves go there, he should want them to be happy there.
vague because it was broadly understood, culturally. Just like we know that at a stop light green means go and red means stop, and not the opposite. So obvious it is not even written down anywhere, yet a person from the Roman era would be utterly baffled by a stoplight on multiple levels. Just like everybody’s heard of yogurt…
The sky fairy who supposedly loves us made those laws and created those consequences, knowing full well that most of us would break those laws and suffer those consequences.
Well they can think all they want. “Love your neighbor” and everything.
Yes, there are christian bigots, although that’s kind of an oxymoron. They are hypocrites (like I once was :\), invoking the books without ever reading any.
Are you sure? Because they said the same thing about Christianity, and they haven’t been recently outed as harboring the largest organized group of pedophiles in history… I don’t know, that’s a pretty persuasive argument they’ve got.
Right, right… remind me, when was that established? Oh, it was years after the pedophile ring was exposed? My my my that’s… not evidence of anything at all, is it?
And have they done anything of substan… oh, huh, nope - just a bunch of letters. Oh, but they made child abuse illegal - in 2019. Bit late to the party, isn’t it.
Most of the positive and penal civil law—in contrast to canon law with civil effects—is based on the Italian code from 1889. It was outdated in many ways. This was amended in a major fashion in 2013 to include a number of United Nations Conventions the state has signed over the years, as well as bringing it up to date. The penal code now includes specifics defining money laundering, explicit listing of sexual crimes, and violating confidentiality. Since life imprisonment was abolished by Pope Francis in 2013, the maximum penalty is 30 to 35 years of imprisonment.[6]
and ohhh they noticed a problem, got evidence and acted against it??? how dare they???
and they automatically adopted all italian laws until 2008
Under no conditions… If you are white, straight and usian.
Well, what is it if not a guy in the clouds? According to the bible, he made us to his image so it is safe to say he’s a man in the clouds. Or are you suggesting that the bible is lying when it says he made us to his image?
Yet, the so called “christians” love to tell anyone not straight how unholy their “thing” is; why if god loves you unconditionally? They also love to convert (or try to) other people to their faith; why do so if god loves you without conditions?
Genesis 1.27 says he created us to his own image. Are you suggesting then that god is not human shaped? Then, can we say it is dog shaped?
We are told not to judge, but to leave it to Him to judge, but we can point out the sin in our brothers and sisters so they may hate it and turn away from it, and love is not letting others fall into sin, it is pointing out their sin but only so they themselves may hate it and turn away from it, not to mock shame them. And if a father loves his child unconditionally, and the child wants to leave the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves, can the father stop them? Bind them as a slave? No.
God created us in His spiritual image, by giving a rational soul.
thats the thing, God has already revealed to us the sins, so we can call them out within ourselves and our brothers and sisters so we dont need to judge by ourselves
We are told not to judge, but to leave it to Him to judge, but we can point out the sin in our brothers and sisters so they may hate it and turn away from it, and love is not letting others fall into sin, it is pointing out their sin but only so they themselves may hate it and turn away from it, not to mock shame them. And if a father loves his child unconditionally, and the child wants to leave the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves, can the father stop them? Bind them as a slave? No.
But that would make the bolded part unnecessary, yet you seem to say that it is good to do it.
So why is it that only christians are trying to screw non-straight people lives by taking away their rights, and messing with them denying medical care to them ii you are told to “not enlsave them”? And why is it that only christians want to deport any non-white person in the us? And why is it that only christians want to have a say in everybody’s lives even if those people don’t want anything to do with your god? Why don’t you see an atheist trying to ban day-after pills? Or medical abortions or rape abortions? Why is it that only christians want to have a say in the body of a woman? If your god loves us inconditionally, why doesn’t he love a gay person? Are you telling me that god consider’s a sin to love a person of the same sex? Under what basis? Is it worse than pre-maritage sex? Is it worse than working on sundays? Is it worse than cheating?
Got it, so god is not human-shaped. Hence it can be dog-shaped. How do you know the shape of god?
A bunch of non christians are trumpers, and the Pope has condemned his war on Iran. And I think murder is bad. The Bible reveals to us homosexuality is a sin but He loves you even if you sin. Homosexuality is a sin as marriage is between a man and woman, and pre marital sex is a sin as it perverts our very nature and relationship with God and our neighbours.
God is omnipotent, and He exists outside of space, time and our very being. I dont know his shape and I dont even think we can comprehend him if we saw his true form, Ezekiel was shown only his back and he was righteous ever since
I’m sorry, but I find self-hating queer Christians to be comically ridiculous.
Here’s my theological process:
If there is a god, he/she/it clearly makes queer/gay/trans people. Folks are clearly born with these traits.
God made queer/trans people because God wants there to be queer/trans people.
Any interpretation of scripture that concludes being queer is a sin is false by default. I refuse to believe in a creator that would create people hard wired a certain way, and then in turn punish them for acting the very way he made them. That’s not the work of a benevolent God. That’s the work of a psychopath. Really, that’s the work of the Devil.
If you believe being queer is a sin, you’re worshiping an evil god. You may as well be praying to Satan.
Being queer isn’t a sin. Any scriptural justifications for this are false. It’s no different than if someone came to me and told me that they had a Biblical interpretation that said killing children was OK. (I’m talking actual children, not fetuses.) If someone tells me they have some convoluted Biblical analysis that makes killing children OK, I’m not even going to humor such an argument. I refuse to believe in a deity that would condone murdering children. I refuse to believe in a god that would make people a certain way, and then harshly punish them just for acting the very way he made them to be.
Being queer isn’t a sin. If you think it is, you’re worshiping the Devil.
Adam and Eve ate the apple after being tempted by Satan, who had the sin of Pride and was thrown out of heaven for it. It is still eaten everyday.
God didnt want sin to exist, but he gave Satan free will and he revolted against God and tried to “overthrow” Him and was thrown out of heaven and then he tempted Adam and Eve to eat the apple
By this logic, God “wanted” sin to exist, which is contradictory to the Bible, By this logic sin doesnt even exist and there is no evil.
God loves you unconditionally, under no conditions
Sure, He loves you so much that He must torture you for all eternity for not letting Him into your heart (or cursing His Magic Bird, of course, that goes without saying)*
*only applicable to Bible God, your God(s) may differ
Hell is just the abyss, non existence and we know VERY little about it, dantes inferno is a blatant fanfic
The Catholic Church affirms “the existence of hell and its eternity”, holding that “those who have responded to the love and piety of God go to eternal life, those who have refused them to the end go to the fire that is not extinguished”.
Thomas Aquinas (considered one of the most influential thinkers in the history of Catholic theology) taught that on Judgment Day, the punishment of hell will consist of fire and of “whatever is ignoble and sordid”, since “all the elements conduce to the torture of the damned”, who “placed their end in material things”. The worm of the damned is a guilty conscience, that the damned will suffer over the fact of having separated themselves from God, that the damned will physically weep on Judgement Day, that hell is so full of darkness that the damned can only see things which will torment them, that the “disposition of hell” is “utmost unhappiness”, that the fire of hell is non-physical (before Judgment Day) and physical (at Judgment Day), that the physical fire of hell will not be made of matter, and that whether or not hell is under the earth is unknown. The suffering of punishment is according to one’s sins, so that some will suffer more, in deeper and darker pits of hell, than others.
Whatever it is, it is quite clearly infinite torture.
I’ll honestly believe all those mythological gods are real before the christian god (and any other monotheistic gods that are the embodiment of perfection and omnipotence). See, mythological gods were way more like people, they made mistakes, they got jealous, they got angry and they sometimes even died. They weren’t omnipotent, omniscent or omnipresent, and they had limited power. That makes them not only more interesting and better for telling stories or even teaching morals, but also way more believable than whatever christianism has.
This is what amounts to a micdrop for you, is it? A link to one paragraph that provides no proof whatsoever, but instead claims said proof both exists and is beyond dismissal?
The diocesan tribunal investigated the case. The Vatican’s Congregation for the Causes of Saints reviewed the maternal-fetal medical records and comparative ultrasound imaging. Pope Francis approved the miracle decree in May 2020.
Understanding the Illness
Fetal hydrops (hydrops fetalis) is a severe condition in which abnormal amounts of fluid accumulate in the fetus’s tissues and organs—around the heart, lungs, abdomen, or under the skin. It is usually fatal, with survival rates under 10% even with intensive treatment. Spontaneous resolution in utero is medically unprecedented.
Full Narrative
Blessed Michael McGivney (1852–1890) founded the Knights of Columbus. In February 2015, Michelle Schachle’s unborn son was diagnosed with hydrops fetalis—a usually fatal accumulation of fluid in the fetus’s tissues and organs—plus Down syndrome. Doctors gave zero chance of survival and encouraged abortion. Daniel and Michelle Schachle refused and prayed to Fr. McGivney. Daniel promised to name the boy Michael if healed.
The documentation. The healing of fatal fetal hydrops in utero is supported by comparative pre- and post-healing ultrasound imaging and maternal-fetal medical records. The before-and-after imaging provides objective evidence that the condition—which is typically fatal—completely resolved without medical intervention. Mikey was born healthy and continues to thrive today.
Pope Francis approved the miracle in May 2020; McGivney was beatified October 31, 2020. The Knights of Columbus (kofc.org) and Catholic News Agency document the case.
Why It Matters
Fetal hydrops is typically fatal. The comparative pre- and post-healing ultrasound imaging provides objective, verifiable evidence. McGivney founded the Knights of Columbus—a major American Catholic organization. The case is exceptionally well-documented by modern maternal-fetal medicine standards.
God loves you unconditionally, under no conditions
Calling God a “man in the clouds” is like calling a puppy a “bag of meat, raw flesh and blood”
Luke 6:36 Therefore, be merciful, just as your Father is also merciful.
Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
I can do all that without your book. Plus your god is a god of death and destruction. Maybe tell your god that
(cries in Latin)
But if you dont do whatever thing you will spend eternity burning in hell despite this unconditional love.
I prefer magical sky faerie.
Say, a father loves his son or daughter, but his son or daughter reaches wants to depart from the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves. Can he stop him or her like a slave and bind him or her? No
More insults than an actual argument
God created everything, including hell (he has the power to destroy hell).
A more apt analogy is the Father bred those wolves specifically to attack his children if they ever choose to leave, and after being mauled near to death, he tends to the children until they are healthy enough, then calls to the wolves to maul them again, to infinity.
Yeah that whole analogy just reminds me of the movie The Village.
and btw, Christianity is so “restrictive” as you are being prevented from doing these things, as sins will eventually corrode you and take over your life and ruin it
So the child metaphor is about someone who, in pretty much the entire world, is not a child.
Kinda grasping at straws to save face, aren’t you?
Nah it’s not.
IDK man, my life is pretty damn great and just absolutely dripping with sin. Is it possible you’ve been, I don’t know, lied to? By people who stand to profit from you? You give power to people who don’t deserve it because you’re told you have to - you carry water for them unasked, out of a sense of loyalty that is unearned. You’ve been tricked by pedophiles into doing their bidding, because they’ve sold you on the lie that sin is righteous and obedience is faith. You’re a victim, and one that’s been so viciously beaten you can’t hold up your head to see what you’ve become.
I weep for you.
apologize for the english, I meant “child” as a gender neutral word for “daughtee” or “son”
you think your life is good and youre not addicted until you try to stop one of your habits.
Thats literally how meth and other illicit substances work
youre on cloud 9, ecstasy, until you try to stop all while its eating you *alive
it is
(I love that you’re just ignoring the inconvenient part where I point out you’re a tragic victim…)
There is nothing stopping you from restraining an adult, though. It’s just a shit metaphor.
Who cares? None of the things you’d doubtlessly decry as an addiction have a negative impact on my life. Honestly most of them have only improved it. So… what’s the problem, exactly? Why would I even want to stop?
you would support someone physically tying up their 20 year old offspring and dragging them home because they wanted to leave?
you only think so, frater. They have a deep ad disgusting impact on your life, and the impact isnt good at all, a meth addict will try to prove that meth doesnt have an impact on their life
well i can touch a puppy
well I cant touch a demon core either but doesnt mean it doesnt exist
You can touch a demon core.
Once.
lmao
sure, i keep mine next to my sky daddy collection
they call him
007
0 reasoning
0 proof
7 insults
Did you provide proof for a higher power? I must have missed it.
I just wanna highlight how perfect this response is. Backed into a metaphorical corner by not getting the response you expected, you retreat to a retort you learned by rote, which is only barely applicable. It’s a beautiful example of the terrible habits you develop through a highly religious life.
you have not yet tried to reason with me, or have a debate but have kept insulting me
Well, yes. Maybe you should take the hint and leave a space where you’re clearly unwelcome?
lol, he wants reason and debate!
No, you want a platform for your bad faith arguments and delusions.
God didn’t love all those children he gave cancer to, or transexuals who are being harassed online right now and will kill themselves pretty soon. God is not interfering or doing anything to stop the people in the Epstein files or all the evil alike. Instead, God is convincing people that we should never hurt those people, because hurting them is “bad.”
It seems God’s love is worth nothing. I don’t want the “unconditional love” of a fucking pedophile apologist monster that deserves to die. Calls himself “all-mighty,” “omnipotent,” “omniscient,” “omnipresent…” Yet, I see nothing but suffering and destruction. Maybe God is bored and is using us as entertainment props. Ever thought about that? Seeing us get raped, killed, and then take revenge is an exciting show for God. They’ve been watching that shit for THOUSANDS of years now without stopping it or helping us in any way. God convinced you that “that’s his plan. He wants us to learn to love by ourselves.”
Nah. God just wants entertainment. There is no justification as to why God is not coming down to stop evil. Either God is super weak, enjoys watching this shit, or doesn’t care at all. None merit love.
Fuck all religions. Nobody needs them to be good people.
Wisdom, Chapter 11
Punishment of the Wicked
15 In return for their foolish and wicked thoughts, which led them astray to worship irrational serpents and worthless animals, you sent upon them a multitude of irrational creatures to punish them, 16 so that they might learn that one is punished by the very things by which one sins. 17 For your all-powerful hand, which created the world out of formless matter, did not lack the means to send upon them a multitude of bears, or bold lions, 18 or newly-created unknown beasts full of rage, or such as breathe out fiery breath, or belch forth a thick pall of smoke, or flash terrible sparks from their eyes; 19 not only could the harm they did destroy people,[e] but the mere sight of them could kill by fright. 20 Even apart from these, people[f] could fall at a single breath when pursued by justice and scattered by the breath of your power. But you have arranged all things by measure and number and weight. God Is Powerful and Merciful
21 For it is always in your power to show great strength, and who can withstand the might of your arm? 22 Because the whole world before you is like a speck that tips the scales, and like a drop of morning dew that falls on the ground. 23 But you are merciful to all, for you can do all things, and you overlook people’s sins, so that they may repent. 24 For you love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made, for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. 25 How would anything have endured if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? 26 You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living.
God has a plan for you and everyone else
It takes great wisdom to understand God’s plan for you
but only the foolish think they can understand his plan for the whole world
I bet you clap with your fingers spread
ableists dont always show themselves the first time but oh boy when they lose an argument
Oh, do fuck off
You have won no arguments
I refuse to enter a battle of wits with the unarmed
One who tried and failed…
If people put as much effort into understanding evil as they exert trying to blame god for all the evil that is done in this world, it would be much more productive. So much effort wasted trying to create a chain of causality:
Evil --> God
Evil --> (Bad) Humans --> God
Evil --> (Bad) Humans --> Religion --> God (who they then claim doesn’t really exist…)
Really, it’s all such mental intemperance and illogic. The opposite of rationality, really. So many missing pieces to these “models”. They can’t explain reality themselves under their own mental powers, while claiming what religious people believe is nothing but a figment of their imagination. What sort of figments are these incoherent, incomplete, and partial arguments of unbelievers, in the end?
How do you know?
(This is a real question.)
Bible
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh, you’re serious…
Ahem
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Your fairy tale is your proof?
how is it a fairy tale?
Because its a made up story, with imaginary things like gods
There is only one God
no logic or reasoning, just your opinion with a side of insult
I want to chuckle at this at first glance, but it is legitimately sad. Being unable to determine the difference between what is provable and therefore true versus what is not, is a critical ability in life.
It’s like saying Winnie the Pooh, the Tooth Fairy, or Santa is real. They exist in literature and in lore, but that does not make the characters in the story, or the actions taken, real.
I grew up in a Christian household and I started questioning things regarding it as early as 4 years old. I left the faith when I was 12, as medical issues made me question things such as ‘if I’m a good, kind person, why does all of this happen to me?’. I officially took up being Satanic about 15 years later. Medicine and science has solved or controlled the issues that plagued me through years of unanswered prayer.
Most of my friends, and relationships, are atheist or agnostic - but not all. And I don’t particularly try to sway others, but if nothing else, I plead to you to try and take a rational approach to everything in life, and question everything. Even conversations like this. Often, you’ll come up with the same or similar answers, and that’s fine; but coming up with new thoughts, facts, or even more questions, and then in a loop investigating those, is a sign of a sound mind and true logic and reasoning. Even being able to say ‘I can’t prove this as fact, but I still believe it’ is okay. It’s not necessarily what I say given the same facts and data, but as long as we aren’t trying to harm each other, it doesn’t matter.
Hey congrats dumb asshole! I’ve been on lemmy for a couple of months and haven’t needed to know how to block someone yet. Thanks for the help.
How about a delusion, since there is no god?
you ignore all the obvious proof you find
(audience waits patiently for the obvious proof to be presented)
Cardiac tissue growing on catholic Hosts
the Bible predicting that light can create matter
multiple other miracles, research intercessory miracles in the Church
something coming from “nothing” in the big bang? I feel like a creator is way more logical than 0 + 0 = 1, and the big bang could just be a part of God creating the universe
What? Okay, no, that’s not how it works. Where on earth did you learn that?
Holy Cronenberg.
It… again, this isn’t even slightly how it works. Who’s been lying to you about particle physics?
I have, there’s absolutely nothing even slightly approaching proof there - unless you uncritically accept the conclusion that the only way something could have happened was god, and then stop thinking about it.
You have to understand. 2k years ago, without anything ressembling a telescope, undestanding the most basic stuff about astronomy (or science in general) was… not a thing if you were a poor roman fellow tired of believing in a few hundred roman gods. How would you explain the big ball of fire in the sky if hot with the presence of a guy with superpowers? Religion… still lives 2k years ago.
research the miracle
The Bible does not make predictions about light being able to form matter. In genesis, God creates light and dark, but no where does it say that everything else is created from light. In fact, the Bible gives two completely different and contradictory narratives for the creation of the world.
verses where it “contradicts” itself?
This is so pathetic it almost defies embellishment. Trying to use pop-sci reporting to justify the infallibility of the bible is too perfect a juxtaposition for me to even capture in words. It’s sublime. You’ve nailed it - this is the perfect representation of your faith. Well fucking done.
im sorry for that but it is just a compact summary of the things that happened
they basically shot two powerful rays of light at eachother and out came two particles
What if I call God “made up nonsense that has cause immense harm over the centuries?”
You don’t send people you love to eternal torture. Even when those people don’t love you back.
they send themselves to hell. and hell is the abyss
Don’t breed
Why doesn’t the all-powerful being make hell a nicer place to be, then? If a lot of the people he loves go there, he should want them to be happy there.
It’s worth pointing out that what these people think hell is is basically Faust. The story literally everyone agrees is fiction.
Either that or Dante. Also purely fiction.
The Bible itself doesn’t actually have much to say on the topic of hell, and what it does say is pretty vague.
It has what is probably a description of burning community garbage as a sentence. The fires of hell. 🙄
vague because it was broadly understood, culturally. Just like we know that at a stop light green means go and red means stop, and not the opposite. So obvious it is not even written down anywhere, yet a person from the Roman era would be utterly baffled by a stoplight on multiple levels. Just like everybody’s heard of yogurt…
I’m going to have to burst your bubble there…
It’s on driver’s education booklets all over the country.
I think they meant like on the light or anywhere nearby, where it’s being used.
people possess free will.
the universe has laws. and consequences.
.
Oh do fuck off with your bronze-age fairytales…
Prove it.
No.
There’s your proof.
Ah, you are just a troll. got it.
The sky fairy who supposedly loves us made those laws and created those consequences, knowing full well that most of us would break those laws and suffer those consequences.
Doesn’t seem very loving to me.
What makes you believe the god you’ve been told about is the true one and not any other?
multiple miracles, witness accounts, testimonies and basic theological reasoning skills
How about the multiple miracles, witness accounts, testimonies and basic theological reasoning skills of other people from other religions?
Well they can think all they want. “Love your neighbor” and everything.
Yes, there are christian bigots, although that’s kind of an oxymoron. They are hypocrites (like I once was :\), invoking the books without ever reading any.
all of them have flaws except Christianity.
Huh? The bible lore is contradictory and no one can agree on what it means.
sources?
Here’s 50 contradictions: https://www.bartehrman.com/contradictions-in-the-bible/
Genesis 6:19 doesnt say “two pairs” but just “pairs”
this gets a lot of stuff wrong as it takes parables literally, and cherrypicks a bunch of stuff alongside misunderstand stuff
The Bible
verses?
Are you sure? Because they said the same thing about Christianity, and they haven’t been recently outed as harboring the largest organized group of pedophiles in history… I don’t know, that’s a pretty persuasive argument they’ve got.
there is an entire Pontificial Commission for the Protection of Minors? How is it a group of pedophiles?
Right, right… remind me, when was that established? Oh, it was years after the pedophile ring was exposed? My my my that’s… not evidence of anything at all, is it?
And have they done anything of substan… oh, huh, nope - just a bunch of letters. Oh, but they made child abuse illegal - in 2019. Bit late to the party, isn’t it.
they did a bunch of stuff
the first fundemental law was in 1929 and
Most of the positive and penal civil law—in contrast to canon law with civil effects—is based on the Italian code from 1889. It was outdated in many ways. This was amended in a major fashion in 2013 to include a number of United Nations Conventions the state has signed over the years, as well as bringing it up to date. The penal code now includes specifics defining money laundering, explicit listing of sexual crimes, and violating confidentiality. Since life imprisonment was abolished by Pope Francis in 2013, the maximum penalty is 30 to 35 years of imprisonment.[6]
and ohhh they noticed a problem, got evidence and acted against it??? how dare they???
and they automatically adopted all italian laws until 2008
If you are a human being
He made us in his image spiritually by giving us a rational soul.
We are told not to judge, but to leave it to Him to judge, but we can point out the sin in our brothers and sisters so they may hate it and turn away from it, and love is not letting others fall into sin, it is pointing out their sin but only so they themselves may hate it and turn away from it, not to mock shame them. And if a father loves his child unconditionally, and the child wants to leave the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves, can the father stop them? Bind them as a slave? No.
God created us in His spiritual image, by giving a rational soul.
Judging doesn’t just mean being negative about something. It means telling someone that what they do is bad, or wrong.
Which is what you describe as not judging.
thats the thing, God has already revealed to us the sins, so we can call them out within ourselves and our brothers and sisters so we dont need to judge by ourselves
But that would make the bolded part unnecessary, yet you seem to say that it is good to do it.
A bunch of non christians are trumpers, and the Pope has condemned his war on Iran. And I think murder is bad. The Bible reveals to us homosexuality is a sin but He loves you even if you sin. Homosexuality is a sin as marriage is between a man and woman, and pre marital sex is a sin as it perverts our very nature and relationship with God and our neighbours.
God is omnipotent, and He exists outside of space, time and our very being. I dont know his shape and I dont even think we can comprehend him if we saw his true form, Ezekiel was shown only his back and he was righteous ever since
I’m sorry, but I find self-hating queer Christians to be comically ridiculous.
Here’s my theological process:
If there is a god, he/she/it clearly makes queer/gay/trans people. Folks are clearly born with these traits.
God made queer/trans people because God wants there to be queer/trans people.
Any interpretation of scripture that concludes being queer is a sin is false by default. I refuse to believe in a creator that would create people hard wired a certain way, and then in turn punish them for acting the very way he made them. That’s not the work of a benevolent God. That’s the work of a psychopath. Really, that’s the work of the Devil.
If you believe being queer is a sin, you’re worshiping an evil god. You may as well be praying to Satan.
Being queer isn’t a sin. Any scriptural justifications for this are false. It’s no different than if someone came to me and told me that they had a Biblical interpretation that said killing children was OK. (I’m talking actual children, not fetuses.) If someone tells me they have some convoluted Biblical analysis that makes killing children OK, I’m not even going to humor such an argument. I refuse to believe in a deity that would condone murdering children. I refuse to believe in a god that would make people a certain way, and then harshly punish them just for acting the very way he made them to be.
Being queer isn’t a sin. If you think it is, you’re worshiping the Devil.
Adam and Eve ate the apple after being tempted by Satan, who had the sin of Pride and was thrown out of heaven for it. It is still eaten everyday.
God didnt want sin to exist, but he gave Satan free will and he revolted against God and tried to “overthrow” Him and was thrown out of heaven and then he tempted Adam and Eve to eat the apple
By this logic, God “wanted” sin to exist, which is contradictory to the Bible, By this logic sin doesnt even exist and there is no evil.
Thus it is flawed
Sure, He loves you so much that He must torture you for all eternity for not letting Him into your heart (or cursing His Magic Bird, of course, that goes without saying)*
*only applicable to Bible God, your God(s) may differ
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is rejecting God until death.
Hell is just the abyss, non existence and we know VERY little about it, dantes inferno is a blatant fanfic
The Catholic Church affirms “the existence of hell and its eternity”, holding that “those who have responded to the love and piety of God go to eternal life, those who have refused them to the end go to the fire that is not extinguished”.
Thomas Aquinas (considered one of the most influential thinkers in the history of Catholic theology) taught that on Judgment Day, the punishment of hell will consist of fire and of “whatever is ignoble and sordid”, since “all the elements conduce to the torture of the damned”, who “placed their end in material things”. The worm of the damned is a guilty conscience, that the damned will suffer over the fact of having separated themselves from God, that the damned will physically weep on Judgement Day, that hell is so full of darkness that the damned can only see things which will torment them, that the “disposition of hell” is “utmost unhappiness”, that the fire of hell is non-physical (before Judgment Day) and physical (at Judgment Day), that the physical fire of hell will not be made of matter, and that whether or not hell is under the earth is unknown. The suffering of punishment is according to one’s sins, so that some will suffer more, in deeper and darker pits of hell, than others.
Whatever it is, it is quite clearly infinite torture.
There is no god, no heaven, no devil, no hell, no angels, no demons.
Unless you think these gods are also real:
Achilles, Adapa, Aeneas, Allah, Ame-no-minaka-nushi, An, Anšar, Antu, Anubis, Anzû, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Areop-Enap, Ares, Artemis, Asag, Asclepius, Aššur, Athena, Atiya Kuru Shidaba, Atra-Hasīs, Atum, Âu Cơ, Awonawilona, Baal, Baldur, Bau, Beowulf, Bes, Buga, Bull of Heaven, Buninka, Cronus, Dangun, Dâyuni’sï, Demeter, Dionysus, Dumuzi, Enki, Enkidu, Enlil, Ereškigal, Esege Malan, Freya, Freyr, Gaia, Geb, Gichi-manidoo, Gilgameš, Grendel, Hades, Hathor, Hephaestus, Hera, Heracles, Hercules, Hermes, Hine-nui-te-pō, Horus, Hwanin, Hwanung, Inanna, Ishtar, Isis, Käng, Kamui, Kāne, Khnum, Ki, Kišar, Kūkaʻilimoku, Kukulkan, Lạc Long Quân, Lahamu, Lahmu, Loki, Lono, Ma, Mahavira, Marduk, Montu, Nabû, Nammu, Nephthys, Nergal, Neti, Ninḫursaĝ, Ninlil, Ninurta, Nisroch, Nusku.
?
I’ll honestly believe all those mythological gods are real before the christian god (and any other monotheistic gods that are the embodiment of perfection and omnipotence). See, mythological gods were way more like people, they made mistakes, they got jealous, they got angry and they sometimes even died. They weren’t omnipotent, omniscent or omnipresent, and they had limited power. That makes them not only more interesting and better for telling stories or even teaching morals, but also way more believable than whatever christianism has.
There is no SCIENCE, no SCIENTIFIC METHOD,
unless you think these theories are also valid:
Flat Earth Theory, Fake Bird Drones Theory, Covid Bioweapon Theory,
?
All examples of things that are eminently addressable with the scientific method - so I’m glad we can agree that you believe Innana et. al. exist!
Yes, they are theories. They are also testable.
Your imaginary gods that don’t exist and have never shown even a neutrino’s worth of evidence.
Has any prayer ever regrown a severed fingertip? Ever?
?
https://catholic-miracles.com/miracle/michael-mcgivney-schachle-2015
This is what amounts to a micdrop for you, is it? A link to one paragraph that provides no proof whatsoever, but instead claims said proof both exists and is beyond dismissal?
Pathetic.
How the Healing Was Confirmed
The diocesan tribunal investigated the case. The Vatican’s Congregation for the Causes of Saints reviewed the maternal-fetal medical records and comparative ultrasound imaging. Pope Francis approved the miracle decree in May 2020.
Understanding the Illness
Fetal hydrops (hydrops fetalis) is a severe condition in which abnormal amounts of fluid accumulate in the fetus’s tissues and organs—around the heart, lungs, abdomen, or under the skin. It is usually fatal, with survival rates under 10% even with intensive treatment. Spontaneous resolution in utero is medically unprecedented.
Full Narrative
Blessed Michael McGivney (1852–1890) founded the Knights of Columbus. In February 2015, Michelle Schachle’s unborn son was diagnosed with hydrops fetalis—a usually fatal accumulation of fluid in the fetus’s tissues and organs—plus Down syndrome. Doctors gave zero chance of survival and encouraged abortion. Daniel and Michelle Schachle refused and prayed to Fr. McGivney. Daniel promised to name the boy Michael if healed.
The documentation. The healing of fatal fetal hydrops in utero is supported by comparative pre- and post-healing ultrasound imaging and maternal-fetal medical records. The before-and-after imaging provides objective evidence that the condition—which is typically fatal—completely resolved without medical intervention. Mikey was born healthy and continues to thrive today.
Pope Francis approved the miracle in May 2020; McGivney was beatified October 31, 2020. The Knights of Columbus (kofc.org) and Catholic News Agency document the case.
Why It Matters
Fetal hydrops is typically fatal. The comparative pre- and post-healing ultrasound imaging provides objective, verifiable evidence. McGivney founded the Knights of Columbus—a major American Catholic organization. The case is exceptionally well-documented by modern maternal-fetal medicine standards.
LOL, that’s not evidence, that’s an anecdote. Can it be reproduced? Can it be tested? Did prayer affect the outcome? You loon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders
Guess he giveth and he taketh, huh.