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A religious upbringing however will almost always result in deep mental (and often physical) scars and should be considered child abuse.
Really matters what kind of religious upbringing.
Although, to be fair: I want my foreskin back, bruh :'(
A cult demanded my foreskin be removed in infancy and I’m not very cool with that.
Medical technology and hygiene practices have advanced enough that circumcisions don’t make much of a difference.
But that same medical technology has not yet advanced enough to let me grow my foreskin back, and that upsets me.
Technically I believe there’s a stretching process involving weights, but that’s as much knowledge of it as my mind was willing to retain. I’d argue if someone needs their foreskin so bad they’re basically willing to further mutilate their body to get it, that’s it’s own mental illness.
Reddit had r/foreskinrestoration and similar subs but nothing similar has grown pun intended here on Lemmy. It took 4 or 5 years of dedicated stretching by hand and with a few different devices but the head of my penis is fully covered and in some ways the circumcision is reversed, and I’m happy with it. Still not the same but much better in terms of sensitivity, no regrets, and not really that much effort involved.
I’m happy that you’re happy! Though I gotta say, this:
It took 4 or 5 years of dedicated stretching by hand and with a few different devices
not really that much effort involved
…is slightly baffling lol.
So, no foreskin growing pills?
They’d need to test it on mice…
Mouse circumcision: we truly do create our own hell.
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The same society that introduced circumcision introduced washing things with water to clean them too. There’s just no fucking excuse no matter how you slice it. They should have known better.
The same society that introduced circumcision introduced washing things with water to clean them too. There’s just no fucking excuse no matter how you slice it. They should have known better.
You might find Foucault’s “The Birth of the Clinic” to be fascinating. Doctors, for the longest time, didn’t know germ theory. The clinic evolved accordingly and iirc (not sure if this is in the book) the first doctor that was convinced of their presence was institutionalized. (Ignaz Semmelweis)
Also, as an aside, water would not clean germs off in a way that will make the area actually clean. I tell my kids this every time they run the water only to wash their hands but THEY JUST WON’T LISTEN!!!
What nonsense! I had a religious upbringing. I’m an atheist now, but I don’t have any scars over it. I really miss my religious grandparents and uncle.
almost always
It’s still a ridiculous claim. Basically saying most religious families are abusers. Where’s the evidence of that?
Religion is used for abuse and control.
This is not a contested subject amongst people who do not consider themselves conservative.
gestures to myself, though I’d rather not be Subject A for this
I’m never going to invalidate you or try to diminish what you went through. I just take exception to the suggestion that it’s in any way the norm.
Here’s 33% of them doing one specific form of child abuse, don’t have evidence for >50% general abuse though.
weasel words, spoken in the passive voice.
Weasel comment, dismissed in the same way.
I’m just quoting, take it up with the original commenter
Persecution
OP is a dunce.
Strong religious belief is certainly some form of mental disorder, regardless of anything else.
My uneducated guess is it’s a form of narcissism in the sense that it gives people a reason to not take responsibility for their actions and not have accountability for the things that happen to them.
~It’s all a part of God’s plan. /s~
a form of narcissism in the sense that it gives people a reason to not take responsibility for their actions and not have accountability for the things that happen to them.
And also allows them to greatly inflate their idea of their own importance.
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God loves you unconditionally, under no conditions
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Calling God a “man in the clouds” is like calling a puppy a “bag of meat, raw flesh and blood”
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But if you dont do whatever thing you will spend eternity burning in hell despite this unconditional love.
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I prefer magical sky faerie.
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Say, a father loves his son or daughter, but his son or daughter reaches wants to depart from the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves. Can he stop him or her like a slave and bind him or her? No
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More insults than an actual argument
God created everything, including hell (he has the power to destroy hell).
A more apt analogy is the Father bred those wolves specifically to attack his children if they ever choose to leave, and after being mauled near to death, he tends to the children until they are healthy enough, then calls to the wolves to maul them again, to infinity.
Yeah that whole analogy just reminds me of the movie The Village.
- Yes, he absolutely can. At many ages, being a parent can feel like it’s nothing but physically restraining your child from doing stupid things that will kill them. This is a horrible metaphor.
- How is “magical sky faerie” an insult?
- the child in the metaphor is above 18
and btw, Christianity is so “restrictive” as you are being prevented from doing these things, as sins will eventually corrode you and take over your life and ruin it
- it is extremely derogatory
the child in the metaphor is above 18
So the child metaphor is about someone who, in pretty much the entire world, is not a child.
Kinda grasping at straws to save face, aren’t you?it is extremely derogatory
Nah it’s not.
as sins will eventually corrode you and take over your life and ruin it
IDK man, my life is pretty damn great and just absolutely dripping with sin. Is it possible you’ve been, I don’t know, lied to? By people who stand to profit from you? You give power to people who don’t deserve it because you’re told you have to - you carry water for them unasked, out of a sense of loyalty that is unearned. You’ve been tricked by pedophiles into doing their bidding, because they’ve sold you on the lie that sin is righteous and obedience is faith. You’re a victim, and one that’s been so viciously beaten you can’t hold up your head to see what you’ve become.
I weep for you.
apologize for the english, I meant “child” as a gender neutral word for “daughtee” or “son”
you think your life is good and youre not addicted until you try to stop one of your habits.
Thats literally how meth and other illicit substances work
youre on cloud 9, ecstasy, until you try to stop all while its eating you *alive
it is
(I love that you’re just ignoring the inconvenient part where I point out you’re a tragic victim…)
I meant “child” as a gender neutral word for “daughtee” or “son”
There is nothing stopping you from restraining an adult, though. It’s just a shit metaphor.
you think your life is good and youre not addicted until you try to stop one of your habits.
Who cares? None of the things you’d doubtlessly decry as an addiction have a negative impact on my life. Honestly most of them have only improved it. So… what’s the problem, exactly? Why would I even want to stop?
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well i can touch a puppy
well I cant touch a demon core either but doesnt mean it doesnt exist
You can touch a demon core.
Once.
lmao
sure, i keep mine next to my sky daddy collection
they call him
007
0 reasoning
0 proof
7 insults
Did you provide proof for a higher power? I must have missed it.
I just wanna highlight how perfect this response is. Backed into a metaphorical corner by not getting the response you expected, you retreat to a retort you learned by rote, which is only barely applicable. It’s a beautiful example of the terrible habits you develop through a highly religious life.
you have not yet tried to reason with me, or have a debate but have kept insulting me
Well, yes. Maybe you should take the hint and leave a space where you’re clearly unwelcome?
you have not yet tried to reason with me, or have a debate
lol, he wants reason and debate!
No, you want a platform for your bad faith arguments and delusions.
God didn’t love all those children he gave cancer to, or transexuals who are being harassed online right now and will kill themselves pretty soon. God is not interfering or doing anything to stop the people in the Epstein files or all the evil alike. Instead, God is convincing people that we should never hurt those people, because hurting them is “bad.”
It seems God’s love is worth nothing. I don’t want the “unconditional love” of a fucking pedophile apologist monster that deserves to die. Calls himself “all-mighty,” “omnipotent,” “omniscient,” “omnipresent…” Yet, I see nothing but suffering and destruction. Maybe God is bored and is using us as entertainment props. Ever thought about that? Seeing us get raped, killed, and then take revenge is an exciting show for God. They’ve been watching that shit for THOUSANDS of years now without stopping it or helping us in any way. God convinced you that “that’s his plan. He wants us to learn to love by ourselves.”
Nah. God just wants entertainment. There is no justification as to why God is not coming down to stop evil. Either God is super weak, enjoys watching this shit, or doesn’t care at all. None merit love.
Fuck all religions. Nobody needs them to be good people.
God has a plan for you and everyone else
It takes great wisdom to understand God’s plan for you
but only the foolish think they can understand his plan for the whole world
One who tried and failed…
If people put as much effort into understanding evil as they exert trying to blame god for all the evil that is done in this world, it would be much more productive. So much effort wasted trying to create a chain of causality:
Evil --> God
Evil --> (Bad) Humans --> God
Evil --> (Bad) Humans --> Religion --> God (who they then claim doesn’t really exist…)
Really, it’s all such mental intemperance and illogic. The opposite of rationality, really. So many missing pieces to these “models”. They can’t explain reality themselves under their own mental powers, while claiming what religious people believe is nothing but a figment of their imagination. What sort of figments are these incoherent, incomplete, and partial arguments of unbelievers, in the end?
I bet you clap with your fingers spread
ableists dont always show themselves the first time but oh boy when they lose an argument
Oh, do fuck off
You have won no arguments
I refuse to enter a battle of wits with the unarmed
Wisdom, Chapter 11
Punishment of the Wicked
15 In return for their foolish and wicked thoughts, which led them astray to worship irrational serpents and worthless animals, you sent upon them a multitude of irrational creatures to punish them, 16 so that they might learn that one is punished by the very things by which one sins. 17 For your all-powerful hand, which created the world out of formless matter, did not lack the means to send upon them a multitude of bears, or bold lions, 18 or newly-created unknown beasts full of rage, or such as breathe out fiery breath, or belch forth a thick pall of smoke, or flash terrible sparks from their eyes; 19 not only could the harm they did destroy people,[e] but the mere sight of them could kill by fright. 20 Even apart from these, people[f] could fall at a single breath when pursued by justice and scattered by the breath of your power. But you have arranged all things by measure and number and weight. God Is Powerful and Merciful
21 For it is always in your power to show great strength, and who can withstand the might of your arm? 22 Because the whole world before you is like a speck that tips the scales, and like a drop of morning dew that falls on the ground. 23 But you are merciful to all, for you can do all things, and you overlook people’s sins, so that they may repent. 24 For you love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made, for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. 25 How would anything have endured if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? 26 You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living.
God loves you unconditionally, under no conditions
You don’t send people you love to eternal torture. Even when those people don’t love you back.
they send themselves to hell. and hell is the abyss
Don’t breed
Why doesn’t the all-powerful being make hell a nicer place to be, then? If a lot of the people he loves go there, he should want them to be happy there.
It’s worth pointing out that what these people think hell is is basically Faust. The story literally everyone agrees is fiction.
Either that or Dante. Also purely fiction.
The Bible itself doesn’t actually have much to say on the topic of hell, and what it does say is pretty vague.
It has what is probably a description of burning community garbage as a sentence. The fires of hell. 🙄
vague because it was broadly understood, culturally. Just like we know that at a stop light green means go and red means stop, and not the opposite. So obvious it is not even written down anywhere, yet a person from the Roman era would be utterly baffled by a stoplight on multiple levels. Just like everybody’s heard of yogurt…
So obvious it is not even written down anywhere
I’m going to have to burst your bubble there…
It’s on driver’s education booklets all over the country.
people possess free will.
the universe has laws. and consequences.
.
people possess free will.
Prove it.
No.
There’s your proof.
Ah, you are just a troll. got it.
Oh do fuck off with your bronze-age fairytales…
The sky fairy who supposedly loves us made those laws and created those consequences, knowing full well that most of us would break those laws and suffer those consequences.
Doesn’t seem very loving to me.
What if I call God “made up nonsense that has cause immense harm over the centuries?”
- God loves you unconditionally, under no conditions
How do you know?
(This is a real question.)
Bible
Your fairy tale is your proof?
how is it a fairy tale?
I want to chuckle at this at first glance, but it is legitimately sad. Being unable to determine the difference between what is provable and therefore true versus what is not, is a critical ability in life.
It’s like saying Winnie the Pooh, the Tooth Fairy, or Santa is real. They exist in literature and in lore, but that does not make the characters in the story, or the actions taken, real.
I grew up in a Christian household and I started questioning things regarding it as early as 4 years old. I left the faith when I was 12, as medical issues made me question things such as ‘if I’m a good, kind person, why does all of this happen to me?’. I officially took up being Satanic about 15 years later. Medicine and science has solved or controlled the issues that plagued me through years of unanswered prayer.
Most of my friends, and relationships, are atheist or agnostic - but not all. And I don’t particularly try to sway others, but if nothing else, I plead to you to try and take a rational approach to everything in life, and question everything. Even conversations like this. Often, you’ll come up with the same or similar answers, and that’s fine; but coming up with new thoughts, facts, or even more questions, and then in a loop investigating those, is a sign of a sound mind and true logic and reasoning. Even being able to say ‘I can’t prove this as fact, but I still believe it’ is okay. It’s not necessarily what I say given the same facts and data, but as long as we aren’t trying to harm each other, it doesn’t matter.
Because its a made up story, with imaginary things like gods
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There is only one God
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no logic or reasoning, just your opinion with a side of insult
- There are no gods
- You dont know logic or reasoning as you believe in the bible
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh, you’re serious…
Ahem
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
- No
- Also no
- Luke 6:35 So truly, love your enemies. Do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return. And then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and to the wicked.
Luke 6:36 Therefore, be merciful, just as your Father is also merciful.
Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
I can do all that without your book. Plus your god is a god of death and destruction. Maybe tell your god that
(cries in Latin)
- yes
God loves you unconditionally, under no conditions
Sure, He loves you so much that He must torture you for all eternity for not letting Him into your heart (or cursing His Magic Bird, of course, that goes without saying)*
*only applicable to Bible God, your God(s) may differ
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is rejecting God until death.
Hell is just the abyss, non existence and we know VERY little about it, dantes inferno is a blatant fanfic
There is no god, no heaven, no devil, no hell, no angels, no demons.
Unless you think these gods are also real:
Achilles, Adapa, Aeneas, Allah, Ame-no-minaka-nushi, An, Anšar, Antu, Anubis, Anzû, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Areop-Enap, Ares, Artemis, Asag, Asclepius, Aššur, Athena, Atiya Kuru Shidaba, Atra-Hasīs, Atum, Âu Cơ, Awonawilona, Baal, Baldur, Bau, Beowulf, Bes, Buga, Bull of Heaven, Buninka, Cronus, Dangun, Dâyuni’sï, Demeter, Dionysus, Dumuzi, Enki, Enkidu, Enlil, Ereškigal, Esege Malan, Freya, Freyr, Gaia, Geb, Gichi-manidoo, Gilgameš, Grendel, Hades, Hathor, Hephaestus, Hera, Heracles, Hercules, Hermes, Hine-nui-te-pō, Horus, Hwanin, Hwanung, Inanna, Ishtar, Isis, Käng, Kamui, Kāne, Khnum, Ki, Kišar, Kūkaʻilimoku, Kukulkan, Lạc Long Quân, Lahamu, Lahmu, Loki, Lono, Ma, Mahavira, Marduk, Montu, Nabû, Nammu, Nephthys, Nergal, Neti, Ninḫursaĝ, Ninlil, Ninurta, Nisroch, Nusku.
?
I’ll honestly believe all those mythological gods are real before the christian god (and any other monotheistic gods that are the embodiment of perfection and omnipotence). See, mythological gods were way more like people, they made mistakes, they got jealous, they got angry and they sometimes even died. They weren’t omnipotent, omniscent or omnipresent, and they had limited power. That makes them not only more interesting and better for telling stories or even teaching morals, but also way more believable than whatever christianism has.
There is no SCIENCE, no SCIENTIFIC METHOD,
unless you think these theories are also valid:
Flat Earth Theory, Fake Bird Drones Theory, Covid Bioweapon Theory,
?
Yes, they are theories. They are also testable.
Your imaginary gods that don’t exist and have never shown even a neutrino’s worth of evidence.
Has any prayer ever regrown a severed fingertip? Ever?
?
LOL, that’s not evidence, that’s an anecdote. Can it be reproduced? Can it be tested? Did prayer affect the outcome? You loon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders
Guess he giveth and he taketh, huh.
This is what amounts to a micdrop for you, is it? A link to one paragraph that provides no proof whatsoever, but instead claims said proof both exists and is beyond dismissal?
Pathetic.
All examples of things that are eminently addressable with the scientific method - so I’m glad we can agree that you believe Innana et. al. exist!
Hell is just the abyss, non existence and we know VERY little about it, dantes inferno is a blatant fanfic
The Catholic Church affirms “the existence of hell and its eternity”, holding that “those who have responded to the love and piety of God go to eternal life, those who have refused them to the end go to the fire that is not extinguished”.
Thomas Aquinas (considered one of the most influential thinkers in the history of Catholic theology) taught that on Judgment Day, the punishment of hell will consist of fire and of “whatever is ignoble and sordid”, since “all the elements conduce to the torture of the damned”, who “placed their end in material things”. The worm of the damned is a guilty conscience, that the damned will suffer over the fact of having separated themselves from God, that the damned will physically weep on Judgement Day, that hell is so full of darkness that the damned can only see things which will torment them, that the “disposition of hell” is “utmost unhappiness”, that the fire of hell is non-physical (before Judgment Day) and physical (at Judgment Day), that the physical fire of hell will not be made of matter, and that whether or not hell is under the earth is unknown. The suffering of punishment is according to one’s sins, so that some will suffer more, in deeper and darker pits of hell, than others.
Whatever it is, it is quite clearly infinite torture.
- Under no conditions… If you are white, straight and usian.
- Well, what is it if not a guy in the clouds? According to the bible, he made us to his image so it is safe to say he’s a man in the clouds. Or are you suggesting that the bible is lying when it says he made us to his image?
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If you are a human being
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He made us in his image spiritually by giving us a rational soul.
- Yet, the so called “christians” love to tell anyone not straight how unholy their “thing” is; why if god loves you unconditionally? They also love to convert (or try to) other people to their faith; why do so if god loves you without conditions?
- Genesis 1.27 says he created us to his own image. Are you suggesting then that god is not human shaped? Then, can we say it is dog shaped?
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We are told not to judge, but to leave it to Him to judge, but we can point out the sin in our brothers and sisters so they may hate it and turn away from it, and love is not letting others fall into sin, it is pointing out their sin but only so they themselves may hate it and turn away from it, not to mock shame them. And if a father loves his child unconditionally, and the child wants to leave the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves, can the father stop them? Bind them as a slave? No.
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God created us in His spiritual image, by giving a rational soul.
Judging doesn’t just mean being negative about something. It means telling someone that what they do is bad, or wrong.
Which is what you describe as not judging.
thats the thing, God has already revealed to us the sins, so we can call them out within ourselves and our brothers and sisters so we dont need to judge by ourselves
- We are told not to judge, but to leave it to Him to judge, but we can point out the sin in our brothers and sisters so they may hate it and turn away from it, and love is not letting others fall into sin, it is pointing out their sin but only so they themselves may hate it and turn away from it, not to mock shame them. And if a father loves his child unconditionally, and the child wants to leave the house and run off into the forest to be devoured by the wolves, can the father stop them? Bind them as a slave? No.
But that would make the bolded part unnecessary, yet you seem to say that it is good to do it.
- So why is it that only christians are trying to screw non-straight people lives by taking away their rights, and messing with them denying medical care to them ii you are told to “not enlsave them”? And why is it that only christians want to deport any non-white person in the us? And why is it that only christians want to have a say in everybody’s lives even if those people don’t want anything to do with your god? Why don’t you see an atheist trying to ban day-after pills? Or medical abortions or rape abortions? Why is it that only christians want to have a say in the body of a woman? If your god loves us inconditionally, why doesn’t he love a gay person? Are you telling me that god consider’s a sin to love a person of the same sex? Under what basis? Is it worse than pre-maritage sex? Is it worse than working on sundays? Is it worse than cheating?
- Got it, so god is not human-shaped. Hence it can be dog-shaped. How do you know the shape of god?
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A bunch of non christians are trumpers, and the Pope has condemned his war on Iran. And I think murder is bad. The Bible reveals to us homosexuality is a sin but He loves you even if you sin. Homosexuality is a sin as marriage is between a man and woman, and pre marital sex is a sin as it perverts our very nature and relationship with God and our neighbours.
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God is omnipotent, and He exists outside of space, time and our very being. I dont know his shape and I dont even think we can comprehend him if we saw his true form, Ezekiel was shown only his back and he was righteous ever since
I’m sorry, but I find self-hating queer Christians to be comically ridiculous.
Here’s my theological process:
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If there is a god, he/she/it clearly makes queer/gay/trans people. Folks are clearly born with these traits.
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God made queer/trans people because God wants there to be queer/trans people.
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Any interpretation of scripture that concludes being queer is a sin is false by default. I refuse to believe in a creator that would create people hard wired a certain way, and then in turn punish them for acting the very way he made them. That’s not the work of a benevolent God. That’s the work of a psychopath. Really, that’s the work of the Devil.
If you believe being queer is a sin, you’re worshiping an evil god. You may as well be praying to Satan.
Being queer isn’t a sin. Any scriptural justifications for this are false. It’s no different than if someone came to me and told me that they had a Biblical interpretation that said killing children was OK. (I’m talking actual children, not fetuses.) If someone tells me they have some convoluted Biblical analysis that makes killing children OK, I’m not even going to humor such an argument. I refuse to believe in a deity that would condone murdering children. I refuse to believe in a god that would make people a certain way, and then harshly punish them just for acting the very way he made them to be.
Being queer isn’t a sin. If you think it is, you’re worshiping the Devil.
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What makes you believe the god you’ve been told about is the true one and not any other?
multiple miracles, witness accounts, testimonies and basic theological reasoning skills
How about the multiple miracles, witness accounts, testimonies and basic theological reasoning skills of other people from other religions?
all of them have flaws except Christianity.
Huh? The bible lore is contradictory and no one can agree on what it means.
sources?
Here’s 50 contradictions: https://www.bartehrman.com/contradictions-in-the-bible/
The Bible
Are you sure? Because they said the same thing about Christianity, and they haven’t been recently outed as harboring the largest organized group of pedophiles in history… I don’t know, that’s a pretty persuasive argument they’ve got.
there is an entire Pontificial Commission for the Protection of Minors? How is it a group of pedophiles?
Right, right… remind me, when was that established? Oh, it was years after the pedophile ring was exposed? My my my that’s… not evidence of anything at all, is it?
And have they done anything of substan… oh, huh, nope - just a bunch of letters. Oh, but they made child abuse illegal - in 2019. Bit late to the party, isn’t it.
Well they can think all they want. “Love your neighbor” and everything.
Yes, there are christian bigots, although that’s kind of an oxymoron. They are hypocrites (like I once was :\), invoking the books without ever reading any.
Hey congrats dumb asshole! I’ve been on lemmy for a couple of months and haven’t needed to know how to block someone yet. Thanks for the help.
How about a delusion, since there is no god?
you ignore all the obvious proof you find
(audience waits patiently for the obvious proof to be presented)
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Cardiac tissue growing on catholic Hosts
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the Bible predicting that light can create matter
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multiple other miracles, research intercessory miracles in the Church
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something coming from “nothing” in the big bang? I feel like a creator is way more logical than 0 + 0 = 1, and the big bang could just be a part of God creating the universe
something coming from “nothing” in the big bang?
What? Okay, no, that’s not how it works. Where on earth did you learn that?
Cardiac tissue growing on catholic Hosts
Holy Cronenberg.
the Bible predicting that light can create matter
It… again, this isn’t even slightly how it works. Who’s been lying to you about particle physics?
research intercessory miracles in the Church
I have, there’s absolutely nothing even slightly approaching proof there - unless you uncritically accept the conclusion that the only way something could have happened was god, and then stop thinking about it.
unless you uncritically accept the conclusion that the only way something could have happened was god, and then stop thinking about it.
You have to understand. 2k years ago, without anything ressembling a telescope, undestanding the most basic stuff about astronomy (or science in general) was… not a thing if you were a poor roman fellow tired of believing in a few hundred roman gods. How would you explain the big ball of fire in the sky if hot with the presence of a guy with superpowers? Religion… still lives 2k years ago.
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research the miracle
- Some things are proven impossible and they happen, is that not a miracle?
The Bible does not make predictions about light being able to form matter. In genesis, God creates light and dark, but no where does it say that everything else is created from light. In fact, the Bible gives two completely different and contradictory narratives for the creation of the world.
This is so pathetic it almost defies embellishment. Trying to use pop-sci reporting to justify the infallibility of the bible is too perfect a juxtaposition for me to even capture in words. It’s sublime. You’ve nailed it - this is the perfect representation of your faith. Well fucking done.
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No if. Putting if in there excuses those who don’t believe in a sky figure.
Just don’t call transgender people mentally ill.
Ok. Good.
Carry on.
Sssh!
Or jesus will torture you for eternity!
/s
Wasn’t he gay ?
Last supper painted by Da Vinci were only men with loose clothes .
I think that’s probably more down to Da Vinci being gay.
So a gay painter paints gay people at the last supper of Jesus ,ty for info .
Sure, whatever floats your boat I guess.
Not if you go to his home and sing to him how great he is during the only day you have for resting.
that one day a week, but only twice a year.
with loving grace
what? he inly loves me if i tithe 10% and beat my wife
Drink coffee? Straight to Heck
Love this. It’s even potentially palatable to Christians if you just say god instead of man in the clouds
People out here really believing in sky daddy
I’m all for Trans-rights… I don’t give a shit what you want to do, call yourself, dress, etc…
but also, it’s a mental illness
That doesn’t mean it’s bad but also you’re not suppose to think you’re a different gender or whatever
I have anxiety. That’s a mental illness. It’s fine. I’m fine. It doesn’t devalue me as a human. But also, I don’t think I’m suppose to believe everything is going to kill me every second of every day. That’s a mental illness for sure
I have no problem admitting that because I’m happy with who I am
You’re a fuckwit
You keep defending Elmo’s nazi salute
You don’t have any credibility. You’re a troll.
Fucking hell, man, the tech-bro alt-right pipeline has really done a number on you, hasn’t it?
What’s your favorite episode of Joe Rogan?
This is the healthy way to look at things. Obviously people who suffer severe mental anguish because they are delusional(defined as having a false believe or opinion) and by others refusing to indulge them in same delusion, have a mental illness. Regardless of if this delusion pertains to gender, race, age, divine status etc.
Does this mean they are less worthy of our respect? No. But just like we criticize the religious for imposing their delusions on us, we should be free to criticize other delusional groups who say that we have to acknowledge them or suffer social or legal ramifications.
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Trans people don’t have a “false belief”. No trans person says that they were actually born female or male or something.
Sure, but they do believe that they currently are a woman.
Their claim is simply that their gender is incongruent with their sex, which is a true statement.
Sure, if this is their only claim. There are many trans women who claim to be actual women. You agree that this is delusional then?
And it is absurd to say that religious people who are trying to ban books, proclaim Jesus is King in state law, and make the U.S. a theocratic nation are the same as trans people wanting to keep their medical care and not be ostracized simply for who they are.
Sure, but it is the same as the trans people who are pushing laws that would make it illegal to “misgender” a trans person. Essentially “I feel like a woman and you have to acknowledge that this feeling is valid, or suffer for it.”
So you want to be able to say or do anything you want to about trans people, but you want them to not be able to say or do anything back 🤦♀️. You have the right to free speech, and so do others. Cry about it.
You’d get upset if you had to refer to Jews as “god’s chosen people” or to Christians as anything but “nutcases”, but you are fine with being forced to acknowledge that a man born a man is now a woman. I am not. I can stretch to trans woman.
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“Actual woman” is meaningless.
You are right. Words have absolutely no meaning.
If their gender is incongruent with their sex and they are male, it follows logically that they are women.
No. It follows logically that they are male, because you literally said it. They are a male who feels like they are female.
There are also arguments about medically transitioned trans people being the opposite of their sex assigned at birth, as they come to fit the sexual characteristics of their gender identity.
They don’t though. They may present as outwardly different, but their genetics, internal sexual organs, basic physical morphology etc. is still what they were born as.
I’m not aware of any laws making it illegal to misgender someone,
https://uslawexplained.com/misgendering
and even if I grant you that it still isn’t comparable at all. Preferred pronouns aren’t the same as “God’s chosen people”.
It isn’t identical, but it is analogous.
The latter implies that a God that watches you masturbate in your room exists, while the former only has you acknowledge what has already been acknowledged by the best medical professionals in the world, of which I suppose you see yourself smarter than.
Appeal to authority and also false. It isn’t a settled topic. Plenty of biologists still hold that the male/female distinction on a biological basis is useful. Even if some people confuse sex and gender.
Trans women aren’t “born men”. A baby isn’t a man. They were born male and they found out their gender identity to be incongruent with their sex later in life.
Correct. Which in no way means that we need to acknowledge that they are anything other than what they were born as.
Oh thank your god-- your words don’t mean anything? I guess we can stop reading here, then :3
Like you know how to read. Cute.
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Women are women and men are men. Actual is meaningless here.
Agreed. Just like cis-woman/man is meaningless.
I never said that trans women were “a male that feels like a female”,
Correct. I did.
I said that their gender is incongruent with their sex, and you agreed with it.
Yes.
Gender and sex aren’t the same phenomenon.
Agreed.
Gender refers to the typical psychological and sociocultural traits that are usually congruent with one’s sex, while sex refers to strictly to one’s biology.
Yupp.
Cis women may also have XY chromosomes (XY gonadal dysgenesis) and internal testes.
You confuse sex and gender here. We call these people intersex, because they fall somewhere on the spectrum of the bimodal sexual distribution axis. Males has xy chromosomes and females have xx.
Discarding other primary and secondary sexual characteristics just to disregard trans people just makes you seem more ignorant.
Precision is the opposite of ignorance.
Wanting you to not be a douchebag isn’t analogous to wanting you to accept their religion.
Agreed, but if I have to go along with their religion in order to not be branded a douche bag, the distinction is meaningless.
😂 Addressing the scientific consensus isn’t appeal to authority. I’m not saying “This person is a doctor so they must be right” I’m pointing to the consensus of WMA which is a gigantic WHO-partnered organization. The same is also visible for the majority of major medical organizations in the U.S.
There is currently no scientific consensus regarding the nature of gender as it pertains to sex. Much less regarding if sex is immutable or not.
Plenty of biologists also hold the view that evolution isn’t real, and that doesn’t affect the consensus. This issue was also mostly settled already before it became a political point.
Pardon me, but which consensus was that?
And nobody is saying that we should get rid of the male/female distinction.
No, just make the terms meaningless by broadening them to include anyone who identifies as male/female.
Disregarding the fact that this statement doesn’t disagree with my point, I hope you’re not as stupid as to not see this entailing calling grown-ass people babies.
Male=baby.
Calling trans people delusional gtfo here with your transphobia.
If you believe something that isn’t true it is, by definition, a delusion. Some trans people feel like their sex and gender are incongruent. Fine. Some trans women think they literally are women. This is delusional.
That guy is a cunt, consistently
I am not the cunt that celebrates murder of my political adversaries.
I’m blocking you
You’re tiresome
Thank fuck for that.
We’re pretty sure what you mean is that dysphoria is a mental condition/symptom, not a mental illness. Being trans isn’t a mental illness, it’s a valid response. That’s like saying “this person in a very small cage wants to get out and is even screaming for it, they have a mental illness”
Mental symptoms/responses aren’t illnesses, they’re side effects due to environmental or social pressure. It’s not an internal issue like anxiety, depression, autism, etc since it’s a symptom.
As a trans woman ourselves, we’ve had dysphoria for a long time (a symptom from societal pressure of forcing us to be a man due to our sex at birth) was forced into things we didn’t have interests in and refused access to being who we are because we’re not the complete perfect woman in other’s eyes. We were essentially locked into a social sall cage and everyone outside called us a man, got told that our feelings don’t matter because it’s an illness, got told that God themself will abandon us if we continued acting up like a “prissy girl.” It wasn’t in our head, but because of that and even now with the constant “you have to be beautiful to be a woman” still sticks to us, and many other women.
So yeah, it’s not a mental illness, a mental illness is our DID, our Autism, our Anxiety too. Our disability is nerve damage ans chronic pains. But being trans is our pride, pride against the system, pride against the society, pride against the church, pride against the hate, not a mental illness because we’re not confused in who we are.
We know you probably don’t mean ill will, but that kind of thinking is the edge those bastards have against us, and we one your not one of them, so we’re just speaking up.
🏳️⚧️ sending out all our love, hope your feeling better today and further more.
Just a quick question, feel free to ignore, but how do you square the cognitively dissonant ideas that:
- Gender is entirely socially constructed and not at all related to your biology or your behavior.
with
- Transgender individuals suffer dysphoria because their biological bodies are misaligned with their socially constructed and self perceived gender?
We’ll try our best to answer, note I of the group aren’t great with specifics like Lily above-Basil
Gender is a part of your personal identity, think it as like a starter kit of sorts maybe? Then your decisions and interests further your personality and interests, and just like how people label sexualities, gender can be labeled as such (think extreme cliches like he/him likes monster trucks, she/her likes barbies.) However, your socially perceived gender is started off with your doctor and family and that starts off of your sex at birth (not your chromosomes, not your bone structure, not of your hair, etc etc) solely based off of the genitalia (sing even go further determining gender before birth like gender reveal (really cringe imo.))
So yeah, a social precieved gender is put on you and would normally bet like a starter kit for you to formulate with
As for the second part with extension from the first, your self perceived gender or base of identity is different than that of what was put towards you, weather that’s opposite gender like ourselves, no gender, or another kind all together, it’s like a base of identity you stack everything else that you care about upon it. So the “dysphoria” is the incorrect personal perception of themselves that is then heightened by the whole social standing of the social perception.
Again thinking in extremes (but some true feelings we ourselves experience) like how trans people are held up to high standards and must have the ideal passing for other people’s idea of gender. Women with no body hair, big boobs, long neat hair, etc. It’s impossible and most cis women don’t meet most of that, but trans women are faced with those standards in order to be treated as equals.
For trans men are to be expected as tall, muscular, mustache/beard, emotionally stone, a deep voice, etc while- again many cis men don’t meet those standards but that again are the standards trans men face.)
With those societal pressures, it’s no wonder that trans people also feel that along with their own perception of gender that they must conform to, and with the vicious cycle of trying to be more so you feel you are and being denied thats not masculine, feminine, non binary, etc enough. It just cycles into a box you to fit in, with no room to stack anything else for your own interests/hobbies.
-Basil
TLDR: 1- yes, 2- Physical and mental don’t match their own and social perception of the person’s gender. -Basil/PJ/Sunny/Gem
Hope that answers what you were wondering.
Am I talking to a system?
Yes, yellow
k
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That is not what the study found: “Rather than being merely shifted towards either end of the male-female spectrum, transgender persons seem to present with their own unique brain phenotype.”
So trans people seem to have an abnormal brain, rather than a brain more physiologically like their perceived gender. This makes sense since a lot of mental illness can cause detrimental physical alterations on the brain. Depression is one such example: https://www.webmd.com/depression/depression-physical-effects-brain
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You misunderstand me. The negative emotions associated with transgender identity is the mental illness. Just like someone can be a so called “self hating gay”. The issue arises when the rest of society is forced to acknowledge that a trans person actually is the thing they imagine themselves to be. Your rights end where mine begin.
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So racist AND transphobic. Fucking kill yourself.
Excuse me? Are you alright buddy?
I would have to agree with their assessment of you. It would be a net benefit to the world as a whole.
yeah, I looked it up thanks to your post… you are correct. It is not technically a mental illness it is dysmorphia.
Which, hey, I learned something, so thanks
But the point stands. We can argue all day about what is, “normal”, but it’s not typical to think you’re a man trapped in a womans body and yeah, there might be something slightly wrong if that’s the case. But that’s ok, there’s something slightly wrong with all of us.
Which, again, opens the argument about “normal”. Is it “normal” to have anxiety? I mean, lots of people do have it. Is it normal to be transgender, lots of people are.
But again, my point is, don’t hide from it, love who you are and accept it.
Yeah, I’m a bit fucked up but that’s OK because that’s what makes me, me; and I love being me. I’m me and I’m proud!
Just wanted to pop in here and call your ideas miserable and unintelligent before you delete your post later.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28
an argument against identity politics?
What the hell is going on with Lemmy lately? We’ve got transphobia here and furrie hate over in Lemmy Shitpost.
Lots of pro-AI sentiment too. Doesn’t seem coincidental.
I’m not allowed to like AI? It is so handy! It made me a browser extension that exports browser har files for analysis.
Oh please, anything that isn’t “using AI makes you Hitler” is considered “pro-AI sentiment” around here.
Found the pro AI sentiment! /j
Isn’t this post criticizing transphobia?
Hey, this is a great place to figure out which deranged religious cunts to block. If you do everything your shitty invisible friend says, raise your hand. Then stick it so far up your ass that you tickle the place where your frontal lobe should be
Michelle is correct
Oh wow, many ownage, such chuds…
Updoots for the amazing content. The world is a better place…
